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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Celerity

(44,469 posts)
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 10:09 PM Apr 2019

Something I absolutely agree with Biden on: Joe Biden Calls For Free Public College For All

AND it is something he advocated for FOUR years ago

Joe Biden Calls For Free Public College For All

https://thinkprogress.org/joe-biden-calls-for-free-public-college-for-all-fbe46efdfce7/

On Wednesday, Vice President Joe Biden announced that he won’t run for president. But he also took time to lay out a number of issues he wants to see addressed in the campaign, including college education.

“We’re fighting for 14 years,” he said, likely in reference to President Obama’s plan to provide two years of free community college. “We need to commit to 16 years of free public education for all our children,” he said.

“We all know that 12 years of public education is not enough,” he continued. “As a nation, let’s make the same commitment to a college education today that we made to a high school education 100 years ago.”

As he pointed out, the country guarantees free education from first through 12th grade, but students are by and large on their own to afford a college education. Tuition keeps climbing while student debt has tripled over the last decade. Today about 70 percent of students graduate with debt, owing $29,000 on average. Yet Pell Grants, the government’s direct aid program to help pay for the costs, cover the smallest percentage of college expenses since the program was created.

snip

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Something I absolutely agree with Biden on: Joe Biden Calls For Free Public College For All (Original Post) Celerity Apr 2019 OP
I have to say Joe makes a good point about "As a nation, let's make the same commitment to a college UniteFightBack Apr 2019 #1
This message was self-deleted by its author sfwriter Apr 2019 #2
Yes, Joe was smart to take Bernie's side on this issue... good move Joe!! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #3
Yes, good to hear him saying the right things. jalan48 Apr 2019 #7
Gotta give credit, where credit is due. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #8
Bernie is definitely leading the way in ideas. jalan48 Apr 2019 #11
Good thing he finally came around to HRCs idea to make the 1% pay their way to help ehrnst Apr 2019 #24
Joe Biden article Oct 21, 2015, Bernie Sanders: October 22, 2015 Make college free for all Celerity Apr 2019 #12
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that was not the first time Bernie promoted free college and InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #13
Either way, it's just a smart idea... Celerity Apr 2019 #15
Bernie finally came around to Hillary's idea that the 1% should pay their share to make it ehrnst Apr 2019 #23
oh, I meant on these 2 articles, I am sure Bernie was probably first to push it Celerity Apr 2019 #32
I believe that Sanders probably first mentioned it a few months before Obama and Biden LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #31
I agree, but the taxes necessary are another proposal competing for tax dollars for healthcare, Hoyt Apr 2019 #4
I'm with you, Hoyt, but no one ever listens. oldsoftie Apr 2019 #5
Nope. There will be another couple of new proposals in the next few days. Hoyt Apr 2019 #9
The entire CUMULATIVE student debt's $1.5 trillion, that's roughly ONE YEAR'S security/surveillance Celerity Apr 2019 #14
I've heard about cutting waste since 1977. Waste probably exists, cutting it is a myth. Hoyt Apr 2019 #16
How bout lets start out with free technical college for everyone? oldsoftie Apr 2019 #6
Let's do both... Why? IndyOp Apr 2019 #10
Because it would be much less expensive to start with Technical Schools. oldsoftie Apr 2019 #17
Something definitely does need to be done about runaway costs of higher education - IndyOp Apr 2019 #21
Nobody is proposing mandatory college. Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #19
I didnt suggest that they are. But we constantly drive kids to go to college. Many dont need it. oldsoftie Apr 2019 #25
If we have free 4 year college for all, Technical schools will become less attractive I'm afraid MichMan Apr 2019 #26
Yes you're right. And the failure rates would likely rise as well. oldsoftie Apr 2019 #27
why would that be? Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #30
Because people who normally wouldnt go to college are more likely to try. oldsoftie Apr 2019 #33
So you think poor kids are incapable Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #34
I dont see where i mentioned income anywhere. oldsoftie Apr 2019 #35
And why would they make that choice? Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #29
Suddenly this will now be a great idea Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #18
If so, that would be great. David__77 Apr 2019 #20
This was his position years ago. NT WeekiWater Apr 2019 #22
Suddenly? Biden propsed this in 2015 LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #28
 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
1. I have to say Joe makes a good point about "As a nation, let's make the same commitment to a college
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 10:12 PM
Apr 2019

education today that we made to a high school education 100 years ago.”

REALLY WELL PUT.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to Celerity (Original post)

 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,143 posts)
3. Yes, Joe was smart to take Bernie's side on this issue... good move Joe!!
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 10:21 PM
Apr 2019

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

jalan48

(13,982 posts)
7. Yes, good to hear him saying the right things.
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 10:26 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,143 posts)
8. Gotta give credit, where credit is due.
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 10:28 PM
Apr 2019

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

jalan48

(13,982 posts)
11. Bernie is definitely leading the way in ideas.
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 10:32 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
24. Good thing he finally came around to HRCs idea to make the 1% pay their way to help
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 02:11 PM
Apr 2019

finance the rest of the students, instead of given them a free ride.

It's always positive when one admits that one's idea needs to be improved, and where to look to find that improvement.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(44,469 posts)
12. Joe Biden article Oct 21, 2015, Bernie Sanders: October 22, 2015 Make college free for all
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 10:40 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,143 posts)
13. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that was not the first time Bernie promoted free college and
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 10:54 PM
Apr 2019

if memory serves, Joe joined Bernie on this issue, not the other way around. But, again, Joe is smart to follow Bernie's lead on this, or vice versa, if Joe was first. Either way, it's just a smart idea... I think we can all agree on that!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Celerity

(44,469 posts)
15. Either way, it's just a smart idea...
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 10:58 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
23. Bernie finally came around to Hillary's idea that the 1% should pay their share to make it
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 02:06 PM
Apr 2019

affordable for the rest of the country, and not get a free ride.

Cuomo said Clinton inspired the scholarship during her presidential campaign with her "outrageously ambitious" and ''irrefutably smart" vision for college affordability.

"It is not a luxury, it is a necessity," Cuomo said. "And if we're not going to have it on the federal level, then we're not going to be denied it in New York."


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/hillary-clinton-applauds-new-york-s-free-college-plan-signing-n745781

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(44,469 posts)
32. oh, I meant on these 2 articles, I am sure Bernie was probably first to push it
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 05:40 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
31. I believe that Sanders probably first mentioned it a few months before Obama and Biden
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 12:17 PM
Apr 2019

but the whole "he stole my idea" thing is kind of silly.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
4. I agree, but the taxes necessary are another proposal competing for tax dollars for healthcare,
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 10:21 PM
Apr 2019

bolstering Social Security and Medicare, Deficit and Debt reduction, infrastructure, climate change, transportation, housing, guaranteed basic income to deal with jobs lost to technology, and much more.

Free, or reduced cost, education is critical for today's youth and our future, but so are these other things. Some political candidate needs to come up with a comprehensive plan of how we do all this, even if some of these needed programs have to be funded at less than ideal levels.

Of course, GOPers won't consider the needs, liberals will say cost doesn't matter -- cut the military and tax the wealthy. But, that is a start, but it ain't going to pay for all of it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

oldsoftie

(12,847 posts)
5. I'm with you, Hoyt, but no one ever listens.
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 10:23 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
9. Nope. There will be another couple of new proposals in the next few days.
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 10:29 PM
Apr 2019


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Celerity

(44,469 posts)
14. The entire CUMULATIVE student debt's $1.5 trillion, that's roughly ONE YEAR'S security/surveillance
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 10:57 PM
Apr 2019

state budget.

Defence Department, CIA/NSA/FBI/DHS, off budget black ops, etc etc etc.

So much of that is grift and waste.


MSU SCHOLARS FIND $21 TRILLION IN UNAUTHORIZED GOVERNMENT SPENDING; DEFENSE DEPARTMENT TO CONDUCT FIRST-EVER AUDIT

https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2017/msu-scholars-find-21-trillion-in-unauthorized-government-spending-defense-department-to-conduct/

Earlier this year, a Michigan State University economist, working with graduate students and a former government official, found $21 trillion in unauthorized spending in the departments of Defense and Housing and Urban Development for the years 1998-2015.

The work of Mark Skidmore and his team, which included digging into government websites and repeated queries to U.S. agencies that went unanswered, coincided with the Office of Inspector General, at one point, disabling the links to all key documents showing the unsupported spending. (Luckily, the researchers downloaded and stored the documents.)

Now, the Department of Defense has announced it will conduct the first department-wide, independent financial audit in its history (read the Dec. 7 announcement here).

The Defense Department did not say specifically what led to the audit. But the announcement came four days after Skidmore discussed his team’s findings on USAWatchdog, a news outlet run by former CNN and ABC News correspondent Greg Hunter.

“While we can’t know for sure what role our efforts to compile original government documents and share them with the public has played, we believe it may have made a difference,” said Skidmore, the Morris Chair in State and Local Government Finance and Policy at MSU.

Skidmore got involved last spring when he heard Catherine Austin Fitts, former assistant secretary of Housing and Urban Development, refer to a report which indicated the Army had $6.5 trillion in unsupported adjustments, or spending, in fiscal 2015. Given the Army’s $122 billion budget, that meant unsupported adjustments were 54 times spending authorized by Congress. Typically, such adjustments in public budgets are only a small fraction of authorized spending.

snip



60% Of House Democrats Vote For A Defense Budget Even Bigger Than Trump's

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2017/07/14/most-house-democrats-just-voted-for-a-defense-budget-far-bigger-than-trumps/#21b6bd4b6ea0


When income inequality combines with systemic and systematic redistribution of virtually all income growth to the wealthiest while their taxes are reduced, you've got a budget problem. People increasingly need help as the median household income remains flat, even as costs rise. Either you can literally write off the lives of poorer people, as the healthcare "reform" bills from the House and Senate effectively do, or you need to find ways to reduce other spending.

The single biggest section of the discretionary portion of the budget is military spending. For years the Pentagon has been incapable of fiscal responsibility. This is the body that, according to news reports last fall, tried to hide $125 billion in wasted spending over a five year program. It's the only agency in the entire federal government still unable to pass a financial audit. And it's handed the largest check even as the Cold War is long over, no other country has our military power, and major new weapons systems have been outright disasters and money sinks.

But big companies that make billions and billions of dollars a year shovel contributions at congressional representatives because it's a great investment. All that income only required $11 million in 2016 donations, with 38% going to Democrats and 62% to Republicans, according to OpenSecrets.org.


For the 2017 fiscal year that ends on September 30, the Obama budget called for $582.7 billion, which included a base budget of $523.9 billion and the "overseas contingency operations (OCO) budget" of $58.8 billion. The Trump administration wanted to add about $54 billion. As the Defense Department's own budget numbers showed, it requested $574.5 billion in base budget and $64.6 billion in OCO for a total of $639.1 billion.

Ah, the pikers. Today, the House passed a $696.5 billion defense bill that makes Trump's look positively reasonable in comparison.

snip

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
16. I've heard about cutting waste since 1977. Waste probably exists, cutting it is a myth.
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 11:06 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

oldsoftie

(12,847 posts)
6. How bout lets start out with free technical college for everyone?
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 10:23 PM
Apr 2019

Maybe that will put the brakes on this "MUST GO TO COLLEGE" nonsense.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

IndyOp

(15,547 posts)
10. Let's do both... Why?
Wed Apr 24, 2019, 10:30 PM
Apr 2019

I teach at a four-year college and would be grateful for job security.

I admire the tech schools and I think many 18-year-olds would benefit from both tech ed and a year or two of a liberal arts or science curriculum.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

oldsoftie

(12,847 posts)
17. Because it would be much less expensive to start with Technical Schools.
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 06:36 AM
Apr 2019

I'm sure you'd still have your job security; there are plenty of people who will still want to go to a university. But something needs to be done about the runaway increases in college tuition. It goes up faster than the cost of health care. Making it free wouldn't slow that down.
And as Hoyt mentions above, still no realistic way to pay for any of these major programs that candidates are supporting. Just the usual feel-good suggestions. And no, my current choice hasnt either.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

IndyOp

(15,547 posts)
21. Something definitely does need to be done about runaway costs of higher education -
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 11:05 AM
Apr 2019

students are not receiving a better education than I did and I attended college 1983-1987 and paid about $7000 less per academic year.

Also - the pay it not going to those of us who teach and the quality of education does, in fact, depend on us.

However - many public universities are trying to do the best they can for students. State funding of student education has dropped dramatically over the past decade and the funds available are often tied to goals that don't help students - build more fancy buildings so that state senators line their construction CEO buddy's pockets and fund programs that don't need funding - special programs to assist students in the School of Business when it is already extremely well funded by alumni, etc.

I could get especially excited about funding Tech Schools if we could link it to jobs related to making the Green New Deal happen - these should be expanding, lucrative career fields in future.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(13,680 posts)
19. Nobody is proposing mandatory college.
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 06:42 AM
Apr 2019

And how about we let people decide for themselves what education the want instead of deciding for them?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

oldsoftie

(12,847 posts)
25. I didnt suggest that they are. But we constantly drive kids to go to college. Many dont need it.
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 08:46 PM
Apr 2019

Technical school is looked at as a second choice, when it should be the first choice for many well paying careers.
The most successful people i know are also people who dont have college degrees. A few of those folks should be asked to speak at local schools to show kids what an equal alternative to a university can be.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MichMan

(12,073 posts)
26. If we have free 4 year college for all, Technical schools will become less attractive I'm afraid
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 08:57 PM
Apr 2019

One of the big selling points of technical college training is that the costs are usually lower than traditional 4 year schools, which makes student debt much lower, plus the starting salaries are higher.

If all college is free, I wouldn't be surprised to see that more students eschew technical school to attend traditional 4 year college programs as costs are no longer a barrier

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

oldsoftie

(12,847 posts)
27. Yes you're right. And the failure rates would likely rise as well.
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 09:50 PM
Apr 2019

And the govt would also have to put price controls on colleges, otherwise they'd increase tuitions even faster than they already do

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(13,680 posts)
30. why would that be?
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 12:10 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

oldsoftie

(12,847 posts)
33. Because people who normally wouldnt go to college are more likely to try.
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 06:33 PM
Apr 2019

And in most cases, when the door is thrown open to everyone, the failure rates rise quickly as well. Someone who would do better at a smaller local college will now try to hit UGA, or where ever, and not be able to handle the bigger pressure.
You can look at the military as an example. Each time the requirements have been lowered below a certain level, the % of washouts goes way up. Because too many enter who just cant handle it. (Most people dont realize that the average military member is better educated than the average citizen)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(13,680 posts)
34. So you think poor kids are incapable
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 09:48 PM
Apr 2019

of succeeding in “regular” colleges?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

oldsoftie

(12,847 posts)
35. I dont see where i mentioned income anywhere.
Sat Apr 27, 2019, 08:24 AM
Apr 2019

Its just like a buffet; you can have anything you want. So you try things you normally wouldnt try.
I didnt go to college because i knew i'd waste my parents money. Had it been free, i probably WOULD have gone. And wasted YOUR money.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(13,680 posts)
29. And why would they make that choice?
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 12:10 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Voltaire2

(13,680 posts)
18. Suddenly this will now be a great idea
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 06:39 AM
Apr 2019

as the centrist fave moves left.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

David__77

(23,783 posts)
20. If so, that would be great.
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 10:02 AM
Apr 2019

If Biden ran on a great platform and became president- great.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

WeekiWater

(3,259 posts)
22. This was his position years ago. NT
Thu Apr 25, 2019, 11:12 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
28. Suddenly? Biden propsed this in 2015
Fri Apr 26, 2019, 12:19 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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