Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders's Medicare-for-all plan, explained
Bernie Sanderss Medicare-for-all plan, explained
The Vermont senators plan has lots of details about what single-payer would cover. It has less information on how to pay for it.
By Sarah Kliff at Vox
https://www.vox.com/2019/4/10/18304448/bernie-sanders-medicare-for-all
"SNIP.....
The Sanders plan envisions a future in which all Americans have health coverage and pay nothing out of pocket when they visit the doctor. His plan, the Medicare for All Act, describes a benefit package that is more generous than what other single-payer countries, like Canada, currently offer their residents and includes new income taxes on both employees and employers.
Sanders is reintroducing his plan at a moment when both American voters and Democratic legislators are increasingly backing a government-run health care system. Sanders will introduce his bill today with 14 cosponsors including presidential candidates Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), Cory Booker (D-NJ), Kamala Harris (D-CA), and Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY).
The Sanders plan goes into great detail about the type of coverage Americans would receive. But it provides significantly less detail about how it would finance such a generous health care system. Instead, Sanders released a five-page paper that included a list of financing options, such as a new tax on extreme wealth.
Americans taxes would have to change to pay for this kind of proposal. But its impossible to tell who would pay significantly more for their coverage and who would pay less, and by how much. This is a crucial part of any health care plan, and in the Sanders proposal, it is notably absent.
.....SNIP"
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
riverine
(516 posts)The proponents quickly leave the scene of the accident.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(13,257 posts)for individuals, starting with employer based insurance premiums, co-payments, deductibles, and the general wtf surprise its out of network payments.
Unless you like paying for all that shit and can't do simple math.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
riverine
(516 posts)No one has scored to that level of detail.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(13,257 posts)that is the total you spend on premiums, deductibles, co-pays, uncovered nonsense like 'oops its out of network' etc. So you can start there. That does not include the employer costs.
MFA would have to struggle to reach those levels. Perhaps the bill could be amended to add private rooms and cosmetic surgery.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
stopbush
(24,398 posts)Prescription drug coverage, catastrophic coverage etc can be more.
Do the math: under MFA, a family of 4 would have a monthly premium of at least $540. Try selling that to an employee whose family insurance is currently paid in full or in large part by their employer. Not bad if you make six figures, but how does that work for a young family of four earning under $50,000?
In addition, the current FICA payroll deduction on 100% of workers generates only enough revenue to cover current seniors on Medicare, and people on DI insurance or Medicaid, roughly 20% of the population. To now cover 100% of the population under MFA, that payroll deduction would need to increase five-fold.
It aint free.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(13,257 posts)The proposal is a complete replacement of Medicare. There are no premiums. No copays. No deductibles. The only exception is prescriptions, and your out of pocket costs there are limited, in the senate bill to $200.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
stopbush
(24,398 posts)doesnt mean the costs dont exist, or that we wont be paying through the nose to cover the costs.
Pie in the sky bullshit. Ds are better than that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)same error Bill and Hillary made. I am completely against it period...a public option and reform of the ACA.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,524 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
comradebillyboy
(10,184 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,524 posts)insurance providers to something less generous?
Medicare for All frees the people from that uncertainty.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)And as far as getting fired or other contingencies, I've yet to hear a Medicare for All explain why a public option won't take care of that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(13,257 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)them now. My insurance is great and cost 329.00 per month for our family. There are millions who like their insurance as do I. So what about families...do we buy it separately...very expensive. insure those who need it with a public option. Eventually, universal health care.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,524 posts)I could understand people liking their doctor, nurse or hospital but why would anyone like their for profit "health" insurance when it not only contributes nothing to actual healthcare but takes away from it?
Medicare for All is superior to and will replace Medicare and as proposed has no deductibles, co-pays or premiums.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)My husband will have a second spine operation ...all told over $300,000 at Cleveland clinic on Thursday. Our out of pocket will be $3000. Plenty of people have good work place insurance. Try taking it away if you want to lose in 20. I want universal health care. We can do that with a system like the ones in Germany or Frances we can use the ACA to end up there. Medicare for all or any large governmental system's time has come and gone. Medicare and Medicaid can be rolled into universal health fairly easily.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,524 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Buzz cook
(2,474 posts)I haven't read any in depth proposals about a public option. I've heard different proposals about what a public option might look like, from a medicare buy in to a new governmental agency.
In most cases I've seen, it would be available to employers and individuals. So not being tied to an employer depends on how generous that employer would be with Medicare+.
If we roll up medicare/medicaid into a universal health care system, we have to have a universal system to start with. A public option is not universal health care.
The large health care systems in the rest of the first world seem to be working fine. Well except where conservatives have fucked with it.
Even if we copy the German system of private insurers, won't we have a large govenmental agency?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
riverine
(516 posts)that would be true free agency.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,524 posts)UPDATED OCTOBER 25, 2018
A change by the states largest medical insurer to the claims review process for emergency-room visits is drawing criticism from the Texas Medical Association and emergency-room physicians.
Citing rising emergency-room costs, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas on Monday instituted a process to retroactively decide whether an out-of-network emergency room visit warrants reimbursement based on a patients final diagnosis rather than his or her symptoms. The change affects 500,000 Blue Cross Blue Shield group and retail HMO members.
If the ailment is later determined not to have been be serious enough to warrant emergency care, the patient could be on the hook for 100 percent of the bill.
(snip)
Troutman, an emergency room physician who is co-founder and chairman of a freestanding emergency room in Wichita Falls, said that the vast majority of patients seeking care in an emergency room need to be there, and that physicians are trained to use medical history and an initial physical examination to inform and rule out diagnoses before seeking further testing.
(snip)
https://therivardreport.com/blue-cross-blue-shield-policy-changes-on-emergency-care-spur-criticism/
Why would you want that when you can get something superior?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)and suicidal for us politically. I don't believe there will be no deductibes or premiums . Also no way this gets through the Senate. And taxes will be huge...I have to pay them ...now my employer subsidizes my insurance. Why is that better? Even if there are subsidies, they will be paid by us. And I doubt SCOTUS will find aspects of this program constitutional. It is lose lose in my opinion. It won't become law and could cost us 2020.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Voltaire2
(13,257 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)Which would end it...and we would be tossed out of office.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tymorial
(3,433 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,125 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)Insurance on the plan...Hillarycare. the same would happen now. Did you really think Sanders invented single payer...been around for years.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,125 posts)guaranteeing that it will pass and be signed by President Sanders.
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)That is unpopular and could cost us 2020. It also helps the GOP attempts to destroy the only healthcare we have- the ACA-by giving SCOTUS cover to rule against us. I sincerely don't understand how Sanders could do this now with millions of lives at stake. It could be years before new care became available. How many would die? I consider this irresponsible and heartless.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,125 posts)I stand with the innocent uninsured people of this country, not with the greedy healthcare insurance corporations profiting off their illicit gains. Sorry, but I refuse to defend that corporate scum!!
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)MFA is years away if it ever happens. And I doubt it will.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Politicub
(12,165 posts)I love Obamacare. It would be even better with a robust public option (hmmm... how about Medicare?) and more generous subsidies to the middle class.
It took us so long to get something like universal access to insurance. It will take a long time to get to the system as outlined in the Vox article. We are making progress, though.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,524 posts)Thanks for the thread applegrove.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
comradebillyboy
(10,184 posts)in Sweden, and they don't have a massive defense establishment to support.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yavin4
(35,454 posts)US population 327 million.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(16,542 posts)The Swedish population is healthier which in turn cuts down on overall cost. We are not a physically healthy country.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Yavin4
(35,454 posts)For example, if we were to spend $300 billion a year on health insurance, it would cost everyone only $1000 a year. If we make the taxes progressive, it would could the average person even less.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,517 posts)Health care costs in the US in 2018 were $3.65 trillion. Unless you believe we can administer health care for 1/12th of the current cost, your math is substantially off. At $3.65 trillion and 140 million taxpayers, it's $26k per taxpayer and more than $11k per person.
http://fortune.com/2019/02/21/us-health-care-costs-2/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(16,542 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 12, 2019, 11:04 AM - Edit history (1)
Having a population loaded with unhealthy people doesnt make healthcare cheaper and simply having more of them doesnt do that either. Im not opposed to any of this but we have to not bullshit ourselves about the realities of it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
tymorial
(3,433 posts)Not a fan.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Yavin4
(35,454 posts)Since the end of the Cold War, we've had two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and few cared about the costs.
My point is this. If we can have all the wars we want and all the tax cuts we want, we can afford single payer health care.
We're Democrats, not accountants. We cannot ask people to take time out of their lives to stand in line to vote for balancing the budget.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yavin4
(35,454 posts)We can't give women the vote. And for God's sake, we cannot allow Gay people to marry. If we do that, we'd lose every election.
sarcasm off.
If we don't think big, dream big, and give people something tangible to vote for, we won't only lose to Trump, but we'll continue to lose every other Republican down the road.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rgbecker
(4,835 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)Sanders wants his plan it seems and damn the consequences. Medicare for all is not popular. It simply won't happen and the consequences for us are horrific ...Trump could be reelected on the mantra...taking away healthcare. Now That would be ironic.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yavin4
(35,454 posts)This election is about more than beating Trump, much, much more. Sure, we can eek out a win by being centrist, middle of the road, but guess what another, even worse than Trump will emerge. We never thought that they would do worse than W., but they sure as hell fucking did.
What are we going to do with a worse than Trump Republican nominee? The only way to stop that from happening is to propose and enact solutions that improve everyone's lives directly. Incrementalism is dead.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)only plan we have or may ever have as helping anyone. And if a plan is unpopular don't run on it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yavin4
(35,454 posts)You keep focusing on what can/cannot be passed. Instead you should focus on big, bold ideas and build a constituency around them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)The revolution means no rules.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
That's the number of people that did not vote in 2016. Out of 237 million eligible voters, 100 million did not vote. That's the pool that we should target. We cannot get those people to vote on incremental changes to the ACA.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,788 posts)It means nothing
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Buzz cook
(2,474 posts)Allowing a buy in by people over 60, then 55, and so on. This would allow the infrastructure of Medicare to expand in a controllable way. It would also of course lead to Medicare for all and billions in possible savings.
But until we get there, we can't be seen as Trump, promising great healthcare without a workable plan. Our first step should be to shore up and expand the ACA and then start working toward single payer.
But our ultimate goal has to be single payer in some form.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Voltaire2
(13,257 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Buzz cook
(2,474 posts)Over 55 and under 19 added the first year and the rest of the population added later.
https://jayapal.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Medicare-for-All-Act-of-2019_Summary-002.pdf
The transition to Medicare for All would occur in two years.
One year after the date of enactment, persons over the age of 55 and under the age of 19 would be eligible for the program.
Two years after the date of enactment, all people living in the U.S. would be eligible for the program.
That's more time than the ACA from introduction to full implementation.
There were a lot of people involved in crafting the bill.
https://theintercept.com/2019/02/27/medicare-for-all-bill-congress-pramila-jayapal/
The Medicare for All legislation unveiled Wednesday by Rep. Pramila Jayapal, a Democrat from Washington state, was written with the help of a broad swath of lobbyists and special interest groups, if perhaps not the kind associated with typical health policy legislation on Capitol Hill.
The key outside groups involved in the drafting included nurses, doctors, disability rights activists, and advocates for the elderly, as well as public interest organizations such as Public Citizen and the Center for Popular Democracy.
It is faster than what I proposed above. Whether it is too fast is up for argument. Hopefully the Democrats in the house will be able to educate the public.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)K&R
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Recursion
(56,582 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden