Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumJohn Aravosis of AMERICAblog on Sanders' divisive "Democratic establishment" tweet
Link to tweet
That Sanders tweet:
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)Did he way his arms around and yell while he said it?
No, this is not sarcasm.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,138 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(47,778 posts)I just got a visual of a President Bernie Sanders waving his arms around, pointing, and yelling at Putin not to interfere in our elections!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,294 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PatSeg
(47,778 posts)was shaking in his boots! "Oh no, stop all that election interference. Bernie just yelled at me!"
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to highplainsdem (Original post)
aikoaiko This message was self-deleted by its author.
lapucelle
(18,419 posts)rather than to help him?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(298,139 posts)He thought it was a good idea because.. fill in the blank..
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,868 posts)help himself from saying truly destructive things...shows who he is really.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(298,139 posts)the source.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
This is an excellent point!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(47,778 posts)what a lot of us are feeling. Bernie's disdain for the "Democratic establishment" is a slap in the face for many Democrats who have lived their beliefs over a lifetime. "They can't stop us" sounds like an attack not a call for unity. Who is "us" anyway?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MH1
(17,635 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(47,778 posts)against Trump with "us"? He's a pretty short-sighted politician.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,294 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(298,139 posts)TY, hpd!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,868 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(298,139 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sprinkleeninow
(20,272 posts)😏
Meanwhile...
💙🙏
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(298,139 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)Does Bernie Sanders ever think about who exactly the Democratic "establishment" is? It is all of the people who have been working tirelessly to put in place a Democratic agenda while also fighting the Republicans for years and years. It is people who were doing it in Congress long before Bernie Sanders ever became a Senator.
Every few years, someone comes along in the Democratic Party and wants to "shake things up". These people come and they go, but whatever they do is dwarfed by the work done by the people of the establishment who work tirelessly to make things better. They were here before Bernie Sanders was in Congress, and they will be here working hard long after Bernie Sanders is gone.
If Bernie Sanders becomes the nominee, he and his supporters will call for unity. Keep bashing the Democratic "establishment" and see how much unity you get, Bernie Sanders. See how well you beat Donald Trump when the people you keep bashing turn their backs on you.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dawg day
(7,947 posts)Than almost any other big organization in this country.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NCProgressive
(1,315 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mtngirl47
(992 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bucolic_frolic
(43,566 posts)Pride goeth before the fall
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(298,139 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dlk
(11,606 posts)That might make great political theater and make people good. However, its far from effective leadership and actually accomplishes nothing. This does much more to divide us than unite us. (P. S. - Nancy Pelosi is an establishment Democrat. Is Bernie saying shes a problem he intends to stand up against? Seriously?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)10 years ago, when the battle about gay personnel in the military was heating up, I used to post on his blog.
People were saying that Obama with the swipe of a pen could undo don't ask don't tell by decree. I suggested that he could not, and I was discussing the legal issues involved (The president in our system does not have the power to annul laws by decree, among other points) and he finally stepped in and in a series of really weird exchanges, he accused me of being secretly an attorney working for Obama and posting from the White House!
I've never really been able to wrap my mind around that. He is insane.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)I had forgotten about that detail. He was a Republican and he worked for right-wing politicians until a weird switch made him into what he is now.
Long story short, I don't trust him.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dave in VA
(2,045 posts)John says what a lot of us who have spent our time and our money for Democratic Party candidates for decades are thinking.
You can't win a general election by pissing on the grunts who have been carrying the message and giving the hours and hours of our time. If we just show up and vote and stay home from all the other activities that a campaign requires then good luck with that!
You can have a great message, but it requires a messenger who will not demonize the people that will be required to GOTV.
So, thanks for saying it out loud, John.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hulk
(6,699 posts)When he made that statement, I assumed he was referring to the DNC and their past practice of blackballing him in favor of HRC.
Now it sounds like it's being taken to mean "Democrats" in general. I think we better be careful with shooting arrows. I'd like to hear Bernie explain that comment in a bit more detail. If, in fact, he is/was referring to Democrats in general, then that is something different in my book. I think he has every right to be pissed at the DNC for 2016. Beyond that......
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
disndat
(1,887 posts)Now that the Putin/Trump/Sanders scam has been exposed, people should catch on to what a devious character Sanders
is. He claims to be wide-eyed and unknowing when he also had this same "lift" from Trump/Putin in 2016.
we should have listened to Hillary.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
UncleNoel
(864 posts)I mean this seriouslys.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jalan48
(13,921 posts)a mere pittance in the public sector. I'm sure all the millions of Americans struggling to make ends meet working two or three jobs in our new gig economy feel his pain.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LiberalFighter
(51,401 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to highplainsdem (Original post)
Post removed
PatrickforO
(14,608 posts)Bernie's worth, what? $3.5 million?
I'm kind of sick of the attacks on Bernie for having the temerity to be a millionaire. It is disingenuous at best.
I've stayed out of this argument so far, but I will point out now that there really IS a Democratic base, and there really IS a Democratic Party establishment.
Think it through with me. There is both.
Let's look at the base first. The 'schmucks like me' comment above definitely fits that. These are people like us who are registered Democrats because we are further left than 'independent' and want to retch every time we contemplate Republicans, particularly what that party has become.
THEN, there really IS the Democratic party establishment. That's grass roots. For example, in my county, there is a Democratic party structure. It is made up of people who volunteer their time in organizing and getting out the vote, and it is also those elected officials at all levels.
I am part of the base, but also part of the establishment because I'm on the platform committee for my county party structure.
Now, let us analyze what Bernie is saying just a bit more fairly, shall we? He is talking about bureaucracies. He doesn't cite Max Weber, but remember that when people organize anything, it grows. When it grows to a certain point, it becomes necessary to impose a bureaucracy on it. A bureaucracy is merely an operational structure that allows for increased efficiencies. As time goes by it becomes an 'establishment.' The Democratic Party establishment offers candidates 1) access to being on the ballot, 2) access to voters, and 3) access to donors. It is, in other words, an establishment.
So how does the establishment interact with the base? Sometimes very well, sometimes not so well. For instance in IA, the establishment decided it would increase efficiency with an app. But the base resisted using the app. Maybe the precinct captains didn't like the app. Maybe they hadn't bought into the need for it. Clearly it did not work.
And what is the relationship of the base to the establishment? Is the base a subset of the establishment in a mathematical sense, or is it vice versa - is the establishment a subset of a larger base. I tend to think the latter.
A word also about the Democratic Party establishment as a bureaucracy is also appropriate: Bureaucracies, by nature, are efficient, but as they get older they have an increased conservatism around survival. I use the word 'conservatism' in the sense that the bureaucracy itself will act, sometimes aggressively to ensure, or conserve, its survival.
Now, most of you KNOW all this. That is why I shake my head with all the anti-Bernie rhetoric every time he uses the word 'establishment.' It is most unbecoming from a standpoint of intellectual integrity. Again, I believe the proper word is 'disingenuous.'
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
corbettkroehler
(1,898 posts)Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)After all, it is average Democrats who have propelled him to front runner status in this primary season and who will propel him to victory in the Nevada caucuses.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden