Sanders: 'In Many Ways, Donald Trump Is a Socialist Himself'

[Quixote1818]

(CNSNews.com) – Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), who considers himself a Democratic socialist, on Thursday accused President Donald Trump of being “a socialist who believes in massive help to large corporations and the rich.”

During CNN’s Presidential Town Hall, Sanders was “If you're the nominee, you're expected to face criticism such as President Trump stating, 'America will never be a socialist country.' For Americans who hold this belief, how do you overcome that kind of labeling to convince them to vote for you?”


“In two ways, in many ways Donald Trump is a socialist himself. He is a socialist who believes in massive help to large corporations and the rich. When Trump was a private businessman - he is a real estate developer - he himself received some $800 million in tax breaks and subsidies to build luxury condominiums. That's called socialism for the very, very rich,” Sanders said.

“When we give tax breaks and subsidies to the fossil fuel industry to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars so they can produce a product which is destroying the planet, this is called socialism for large corporations, corporate socialism. Now my definition of socialism, needless to say, is a little bit different, and I think if you look at countries around the world, look at countries in Scandinavia, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, what do they have?” he asked.


More:


https://www.cnsnews.com/article/national/melanie-arter/sanders-many-ways-donald-trump-socialist-himself?fbclid=IwAR3rxf_9z4ozWo5qUiTRfrPMuU3UznWfKQYGLZLbbP7OfT4YjNWZSrDGmns

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. He's doing it again - calling the Scandinavian countries socialist,

which they definitely are not, and Denmark has even called him on it. They are successful market economies that practice regulated capitalism. Bernie constantly misrepresents what socialism really is.

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. That misses the point

You are technically quite correct, but one has to delve into the weeds for the distinction to matter. What Sanders is doing is equating his concept for the priorities a society should embrace with those embraced by the Scandinavian nations. When he says "Democratic Socialism" he wants folks to think of Denmark, regardless of what Denmark calls itself. Few people follow the Danish press. His terminology may well be wrong, but the policies that Sanders advocates for do pretty much mirror those embraced by Scandinavian countries. So in that essential sense he is making a valid comparison.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. What if somebody points out that Denmark's top tax rate is 60%?

That's going to be a tough sell. Free college and free health care aren't free. The Scandinavians - individuals, not just corporations - pay a lot of taxes for their safety nets, and they seem to be OK with that. But Americans are infamously tax-averse, and nobody gets elected by promising a big tax bill.

[Tom Rinaldo]

16. That's a fair point

But Sanders can honestly say that he is not advocating for a top tax rate of 60%, just that the super wealthy must pay their fair share, and he can point out that the top tax rate under Eisenhower was much higher than it is currently, and higher than Denmark has today. There is a lot of room between 60% and where our top tax rate is now.

So much comes down to framing. When the framing is "Taxes must go up" we lose, when it is "Make the rich pay their fair share" we win. People also hate our health care insurance system, that is why Democrats always make an issue of it in recent years during elections. How best to change it is always a topic of debate, but aside from a small minority of union members who fought hard for excellent health benefits and who have been able to hold onto them, almost no one is content with the status quo.

Republicans win when they get to frame expanding Medicare and Medicaid as costing taxpayers more. Democrats win when we frame doing away with co-pays and deductibles as saving consumers large sums of money.

Americans are not immune to common sense. We pay school taxes for good public schools and frequently approve tax increases when a good case is made that quality education requires a small up front investment.

[dansolo]

24. Except increasing taxes on just the wealthy won't be enough

Taxes will have to increase for everyone to pay for all of Bernie's plans. That's the honest truth, while Sanders (and Warren) pretend otherwise.

[Tom Rinaldo]

25. Sanders admitted during a debate that taxes would rise for the middle class to help fund MFA

It is his contention however that families will still come out way ahead financially after deductibles and co-pays etc. are eliminated.

[redstateblues]

29. Honestly I don't think many people believe that. Especially Union members, who

don't want to give up their hard won benefits.

[betsuni]

20. +1

[emmaverybo]

28. That's the biggest problem. And taxation for universal benefits is high in European countries. The

YellowJacket protestors in France were not protesting capitalism. Dissatisfaction with high taxes they feel are a result of immigrants receiving benefits drives a wedge that the right wing in Europe
is fully exploiting.

Our voters here, outside of our party, are going to be leery of the possibility of substantially higher
taxes and not reassured that multiple freebies will come out of taxing only the rich or from the defense budget.

[TexasTowelie]

30. Bernie's proposal has a top tax rate of 66%.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonynitti/2019/09/15/reviewing-the-democratic-candidates-tax-plans-first-up-bernie-sanders/#1ce7b2ec55aa

There are also tax brackets of 40%, 45%, and 50% in his plan.

[KPN]

2. Sanders is spot on regarding this. He is, as always, his best spokesperson.

[George II]

3. So he has to justify his political philosophy by claiming trump is the same? Not a good look.

[HarlanPepper]

4. Should be an easy sell in the fall.

[Peacetrain]

5. Not saying a word

[rzemanfl]

10. Bookmarking. n/t

[Quixote1818]

12. A 3rd grade could understand Sanders point. Don't pretend you don't. nt

[George II]

13. I do.

[First Speaker]

27. It is Political Ju-Jitsu 101. Classic textbook example.

...remember Reagan and his "I didn't leave the Dem Party--it left me!" Paint your opponent into a corner by switching perception of him, claiming his virtues--or saying that he has yours. Sanders isn't "justifying" anything. This is just good, old-fashioned electioneering.

[Ferrets are Cool]

31. That was my first thought...my second was that tRump is NOT a socialist

in any way at all. Socialism's definition is - any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods. I don't believe that taxing the poor and middle class and giving it all to the rich fits that definition. I could be wrong.

[mathematic]

6. Trump's socialism is one of national identity, not class

There's a handy nickname for that, btw.

[Newest Reality]

11. Yup!

Don't say the F word

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. .

[Dem2]

14. "CNSNews.com is a politically conservative American news and commentary site..."

CNSNews.com is a politically conservative American news and commentary website founded by L. Brent Bozell III

No thanks.

[Newest Reality]

15. I don't know...

He is at least making a comparison between two kinds of socialism, (and the negative form is what is most often used to attack it), but to me, that negative form is simply Fascism in intent and action. So, I guess you can't use that word on a national scale because: reasons.

The isms are problematic in general because their is no clear and pure meaning to most of them, I mean, even the capitalism that is so glorified here is a bit of a stretch considering the actual meaning of the word. So, the isms are more of a problem and I would prefer to stick to pragmatism, really. This needs doing. Do it. That's broken. Fix it. These people are suffering. Relieve it. That's not broken. Leave it alone. Oh, and there's another ism, I contradicted myself

It is too bad that my preferred term, commonsism sounds like communism. My main point by coining it is that it is about our commons in the most general sense, and anything that would emerge from that idea politically would be based on that primarily, no confusion or direct relationship to prior, often failed, ideologies.

[Hekate]

17. Isn't this a version of what we at DU have been saying all this time: that social entitlements...

...and protections that should be flowing down to the ordinary people are instead flowing upward toward those who already (not just "comfortably well off" ) but who are in the financial 1% ? And that some of us have also referred to this as "socialism for the wealthy" ?

I'm not a Bernie fan, but that does seem to be an actual area of agreement.

Honestly, though, his quirk/eccentricity of calling every American entitlement program that is already popular and accepted by a word that has negative connotations for most just strikes me as counterproductive. But so be it.

[TwilightZone]

18. CNS is an extreme right-wing, fake news, propaganda site. Please find a better source.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/cns-news/

[RestoreAmerica2020]

19. This is where it fails. At onset response should be: no trump your the SOCIALIST! Trumps the sociali

Last edited Thu Feb 13, 2020, 03:20 PM - Edit history (1)

..then go on to explain about farm subsixies afe welfare, take breaks for the rich is socialism. Who said, socialism is for the rich and stark capitalism is for the rest of us. Waa it Noam Chomsky or Robert Reich or both?

[Gothmog]

21. socialism" is a red flag for Republicans and Republican-leaners

Link to tweet

A new Pew Research poll finds that “a much larger share of Americans have a positive impression of capitalism (65%) than socialism (42%).” The partisan gap is significant, though: “Nearly eight-in-ten Republicans and Republican leaning independents (78%) express somewhat or very positive reactions to the term, while just over half of Democrats and Democratic leaners (55%) say they have a positive impression.” The intensity of anti-socialism sentiment (63 percent of Republicans have a very negative view) dwarfs that of pro-socialism sentiment (only 14 percent of Democrats have a very positive view).....

First, “socialism” is a red flag for Republicans and Republican-leaners to a degree that “progressive” (which 40 percent of Republicans view favorably) is not. There’s not even all that much payoff among Democrats, since 33 percent of Democrats have a negative view of that term, while only 12 percent have a very positive view of socialism. If you want a Democratic nominee to have the broadest ideological appeal, the most unifying descriptor among Democrats is “progressive” (88 percent), not socialism (65 percent).....

First, “socialism” is a red flag for Republicans and Republican-leaners to a degree that “progressive” (which 40 percent of Republicans view favorably) is not. There’s not even all that much payoff among Democrats, since 33 percent of Democrats have a negative view of that term, while only 12 percent have a very positive view of socialism. If you want a Democratic nominee to have the broadest ideological appeal, the most unifying descriptor among Democrats is “progressive” (88 percent), not socialism (65 percent).

[ehrnst]

22. "Scandinavia, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, what do they have?"

A very homogenous population, both in race and religion, and are closing ranks against immigrants, especially Muslims.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/10/denmark-swings-right-immigration-muslims-besieged-holbaek

https://www.insideover.com/migration/open-sweden-hostile-refugees.html

https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/finland-news/domestic/15575-most-finns-view-that-islam-is-incompatible-with-finnish-culture-and-values-finds-survey.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-01/sweden-s-anti-immigration-wave-is-based-on-a-failure-to-integrate

The culture of 'taking care of their own' applies to a much smaller population, and a much less diverse one.

But they do resemble Vermont (more than the US as a whole), I guess.

[Gothmog]

23. Socialism and being over 75 are not a good combo

Link to tweet

[LeftTurn3623]

26. He needs to say this over & over