Why Moderates like myself are scared of a Bernie Nom

[SDANation]

Hello all, it’s been a while for me. I have been viewing from far after the travesty of 2016. But I’m making this post so that I hope there is some understanding from those further to left of me as to why people like me are scared of a Bernie nomination.

First, in full disclosure, I’m a 35 year old living in CA who is supporting Joe Biden. And it’s not that I love everything Joe stands for but I truly believe he is the best person to face trumps bullying tactics and go toe to toe with him. But at the same time, and I hate to say it, but whoever becomes our nominee will face a major uphill battle, not just with election interference but with how strong the economy is. I mean WE know it’s a result of Obama economic policy but there is never a collective messaging from the Democrats to address that talking point. It’s hard to state we should be in charge of the economy to the blue collar worker when what’s presented is job, wage and stock market growth. We can hope for downturn but at this point unlikely.

Let’s face it, Bernie has not even come close to facing the onslaught of the Republican war machine. I mean they were successful in swift boating John Kerry to return a terrible president for 4 more years. All they have to do is dig into his past and repeatedly play ads over and over in battleground states. One I can think of is Bernie stating, “I’m a socialist.” Now in the liberal bastion of CA, it won’t really move the barometer, but in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Arizona, and Wisconsin that will all but ensure Trump will win. Socialism, combined with ads like how much M4A and free higher public education will cost the American taxpayer, even if not true, will drive the independents directly into the arms of Trump.

The second part is let’s say Bernie is is the nom, you put him on the debate stage, not any fault of his own, but trump will look powerful and young and his immaturity will throw him off his messaging, with “crazy Bernie!”. Trump won’t let the debate stage stop his classlessness. And his cult will eat it up. If you don’t think imaging matters, look at Kennedy vs Nixon.

The third reason, is that he can’t even answer how he will pay for all of his goals. He literally said when asked how he will pay for M4A, “I don’t know”. That’s another ad right there. And if he can’t answer, the inevitable logical conclusion is to raise taxes not just on the ultra rich but on everyone including all those middle class independents he’s trying to court. This is why Hillary brought up promising things he can’t follow through on.

In the end though, yes this country has huge issues that need to be addressed. Healthcare income inequality, immigration, education, but THIS IS NOT the election to do so. We need to win this election to salvage what’s left of the America we knew. Take back the senate or it’s all for naught. If we don’t win, it’s over. This is a must win, not a change election, that’s why I and many moderate friends I have, along with what looks like many on this board are worried about. I’m not against a Bernie like candidate eventually, if the country is center left but I feel it still remains center right, which is why we have president trump instead of president Clinton.

[ibegurpard]

1. I understand

And I even agree with some of what you are saying. But a lot of people feel differently. And if they prevail we have to get on board.

[SDANation]

3. Yep

100% I agree. But when it comes to the general my vote will go to the non important popular vote. We would have to convince those in the battleground/swing to as well. Different culture and demographics to fight. You know?

[UniteFightBack]

5. To me it seems like there are plenty of people who don't care to vote strategically. nt

[SDANation]

7. That's the thing

about us democrats, we tout, oh well Hillary got 3 million more votes. Yeah but we didn’t play the right electoral game.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

2. Perfect sense

Ty

[Mike 03]

4. You make a lot of good points, most of which I agree with, but

a lot of people would say, regarding this question of whether or not "now" is the time for major change: "If not now, when?" We always seem to put off large-scale change.

So, although I'm basically agreeing with you, I have a lot of empathy for people who are demanding more pervasive change.

This is a difficult time and making these decisions is harder than it used to be.

[SDANation]

6. Yes!

I agree! If not now when, but we have to first win an election and hopefully take the senate to show the American people our way is the best way. Cause getting our population to sign on to radical change is a tall
Task.

[Mike 03]

12. You're right IMO.

Welcome to DU by the way!

[OneMoreCupOfCoffee]

8. Implementing a public option would be a monumental change

and is one we could actually accomplish.

Shooting ourselves in the foot and seeing Trump re-elected will bring on some pervasive changes that none of us are going to like.

Have we gone collectively insane?

[Mike 03]

14. I was just trying to represent another point of view.

Other countries look at our healthcare system in complete dismay.

As I wrote in another post:

My heart is with Warren,
My brain is with Biden,
My fascination is with Bloomberg.

[Blues Heron]

9. "trump will look powerful and young"

I don't think so.

[krissey]

10. As a Democrat, not scared, disgusted.

[Perseus]

11. And the beat goes on...

Just for your information, there are a lot of people who are very worried about a Joe Biden nomination, you cannot imagine the number of people who feel that way. I didn't want to say it, but I think it is important to understand there are people out there, some are trolls who are saying nasty things about all our candidates, and there are writers writing op-eds who think that way too, just take a read at the article I include here:

"Stop saying Biden is the 'most electable'. Trump will run rings round him"
[link:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/04/joe-biden-electable-trump-2020-election|

I mean, who to believe?

[SDANation]

16. Yes I understand that.

It’s not bashing Bernie to call out truths. Why do we think trump and allies are boosting Bernie and starting with the whole “rigged” crap again? It’s probably because their internal polling is showing trump can win easily if Bernie is the nom.

[Perseus]

18. But that is the thing, some people think the repubs are actually pushing Biden

but the best thing we can do is accept what the majority of Democrats, that is us, will decide in the primaries and then put all our effort to help our candidate beat trump and his band of crooks, and in the mean time we need to leave all the negativity out of DU, it does no good to anyone.

[Arkansas Granny]

13. Very well said and very much how I feel, myself.

You're right about Bernie never having been vetted by the right wing. Even in 2016, they pretty much left him alone. Of course, had he been the nominee in 2016 they would have unleashed the hounds of hell against him. They would much prefer to have Trump run against Bernie instead of Biden.

This election is all about defeating Trump. If we could also take back the Senate, we stand a chance of healing some of the damage Trump has done to our country.

[Qutzupalotl]

15. I think you're right

and I’m now leaning heavily towards Biden. He has name recognition and a likability that is hard for the other candidates to match. People saw Biden’s public grieving over his son and seem ready to extend him sympathy and grant him a lot of leeway when he responds to hecklers taunting him.

Like Trump, Biden seems “bulletproof” — he’s not particularly susceptible to political damage from any one story or revelation.

Trump and Barr seem worried that he’ll get the nomination, which tells me they don’t have nearly as much damaging oppo research on him. Hell, they tried to invent some!

[redstateblues]

17. Honestly, I don't think either of our frontrunners, Sanders and Mayor Pete, can win the GE

My independent spouse has already informed me she won't vote for Bernie if he is the nominee. She hates Trump, so that's not an issue but I think a lot of people like her feel like Bernie is too far left. The word Socialist has a visceral negative vibe.

[doc03]

19. I agree compleatly. We need a candidate that can win

PA, Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin. Let's face it self identified socialist and sadly a women or a gay guy are not going to win here. What used to be solid Democrats are laughing at the Democratic field. The joke the other day was the groundhog came out and declared four more years. I hope people don't think those are my views that is just what I hear every day.

[Kentonio]

40. I keep hearing people saying Bernie has no chance in Michigan and Wisconsin

You know he won both those states in the last primary right?

[doc03]

42. That's among Democrats nt

[Kentonio]

43. So?

So we should pick a candidate that’s less popular amongst our own voters in the hope that someone else will prefer them? If we turn out our own voters then we win those states.

[doc03]

44. I personally don't know any Democrats that voted Republican this last time that will

vote for Bernie. I don't know any Democrats that voted for Hillary that support Bernie. Certainly there won't be
any never Trumpers that will vote for him. I have seen some young people that support Bernie but they are not reliable voters.
Myself the last Republican I ever voted for was Reagan his first term. I would vote for him if it was my only choice but it would be a wasted vote IMO. We would be in for the worst electoral defeat in history.

[Kentonio]

45. You're basing your forecast of how the nation will vote based on our own anecdotal experience

Another person could truthfully tell you that all their friends and people they know are hugely energized for Bernie and won’t vote for a moderate. It totally depends on the group of people you know, and people tend to talk chiefly to people who share their opinions.

The national polling doesn’t support either argument. Sanders isn’t likely to win in a landslide but he equally isn’t likely to lose in one. He’s popular, his policies are very popular, and if we end up nominating him he has a good chance in the election as long as we get fully behind him, and most importantly fight hard and shape the narrative ourselves instead of just conceding it to the Republicans.

I keep hearing how the repukes will make the election about x, y and z, and Bernie will go down in flames. Well yes, if we allow them to determine what the election is about then ANY of our candidates will go down in flames. We need to be the ones determining what’s in the media headlines and what the public are listening to, and we do that by being brave and interesting.

[doc03]

46. What legislation has he ever got passed or does he just oppose everything? nt

[Kentonio]

47. Being a senator isn't just about new legislation, especially in the face of a Republic congress

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/mar/24/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-was-roll-call-amendment-king-1995-2/

[doc03]

48. He supported the gun NRA I know that.

[jr1118x]

20. From the other side

From the other sides perspective the prospect of a Biden nomination is terrifying as well for a few different reasons.First having a very centrist candidate, will he draw in people. We know on the R side the base will have high turnout and unwavering support for Trump and on our side especially our more mature voters will turn up but are we going to bring in new votes. If look at Bernie's support from the under 35 demographics and he absolutely crushes Bidens numbers. Now Biden has almost same advantage over Bernie on older voters, but which age group is more likely to sit out or go third party.

Many people dont see much in Biden, he has been openly condescending towards the issue of today's youth. He is very mild in response on environment, education and healthcare. While someone like Bernie tries to inspire and move forward, at least to me it seems more like wants to go back to how it was but not any substantial progress.

Finally as far as weakness to attacks by the right we know of course the whole Hunter issue will be brought up and hammered and even if technically correct when Fox and the rest of them keep hitting it will look bad. More concerning so is he doesnt seem the same Joe from a decade ago, look his many gaffes already on the campaign trail, and also look at how he reacts just to people asking him questions. Like the video where he told the Yang supporter to vote for someone else. Biden, Trump and Bernie are all older. Bernie definitely looks the oldest but he comes across still sharp mentally. Bidens just seems not all there.

I do lean towards Bernie but there are several candidates still would be comfortable but I honestly believe if Biden gets the nomination it's over. People like to bring up some of the Sanders voters who did not vote for Hillary, but also remember he brought in a lot of Non Democrat supporters who would have voted Bernie but never someone like her. She won the popular vote but let's be completely real there were large chunks of people that didnt like her. The right wing had been vilifying her for as long as I can remember. Even people who dont like Bernie you usually dont hear the same negativity. Even the right normally describes him more against his policies but not against who he is or the genuineness of his beliefs.

[SDANation]

22. Totally fair!

But doesn’t it seem like Biden has the same Teflon that Trump has?

And I agree with a lot of what you said! When Obama was first elected I was one of the young people who boosted him in the popular vote. But living in CA, my vote has little impact. How do you convince the youth in generally more conservative states to come out and vote on Election Day?

Side subject, i generally consider my self young still... haha. But one thing I’ve noticed from younger coworkers is a straight up apathy towards politics or a lack of interest. I was talking to one the other day, the day they rejected witnesses that said, “no I don’t really follow politics, he (trump) has done some good things and bad things but Hillary was just as bad...” I was astonished so I didn’t respond. But I really feel that the majority of today’s youth are apathetic towards politics in general. If they cared republicans would be close to being an afterthought, but republicans love civics is no longer taught and the youth don’t care. Who ever is the next dem president needs to address that.

[jr1118x]

30. I dont think so

I dont think he has the same teflon, Trump has a sort of charisma that few have, almost like a cult leader. He can tell his people the sky is green and they will mobilize to attack any "blue skyers". One of the few things he was truthful about he could shoot someone and not lose a supporter.

Also the Republicians have Fox news and other news outlets that crush the mainstream channels in ratings. Look at how their ratings dominated during the election, they are very good at the messaging. I think we have better ideas, policy and people but we are not nearly as effective at communicating that.

Even the mainstream media rarely calls out the lies because they are trying to almost play the both sides are bad argument while the conservatives lie and twist so their viewers dont even trust facts.

That's one of the things I think that draws the youth to Bernie he actually comes off as caring about the people not just in it for power and money. Real recognizes real, he has held the same socialist positions for decades, he doesnt come off a focus group polished pandering.

[emmaverybo]

29. Terrifying? Other candidates' supporters may find Biden dull, too conservative, and passionately

prefer a president they believe can spearhead a radical transformation of America’s political and economic landscape. They don’t care about foreign policy and relations. Promising no more wars is good enough.

But terrifying? Obama’s VP? BS.

[jr1118x]

31. Terrifying, yes

When dealing with extinction level climate change in the near future his middle of the road approach is not going to stop further damage and reverse course. His healthcare policies do not do enough and still people in the richest country on earth are dying. Young people are hampered by student debt because the cost of education has risen to such a level that people are taking decades to even try to get out, which incidentally his support as a Senator for Delaware when he broke with the democrats to vote with the Republicans on changing the bankruptcy code are a big contributor to the crisis. In many areas of his voting record he has sided with corporate donors over the welfare for the public. So yes the idea of Biden is terrifying.

As to him being Obama's VP many said that Biden was picked more as reassurance to some of the voters that thought Obama was inexperience. Look at articles of the day talking about this. Hell even look at the hesitation Obama has shown in endorsing him.

If its between Biden or Trump, it's a no brainer I would vote for Joe because hes not a evil man while Trump is, but I would be depressed either way in November

[emmaverybo]

32. Yeah. What will give us instant, irreversible, and catastrophic climate change is a first nuclear

exchange. We came close twice fairly recently.

Tell me when Bernie has any developed interest, knowledge, experience in world affairs. Our president leads an international community, deals with delicate negotiations, for which he needs
to have a thorough understanding of the geo-political concerns involved in each region. Tell me when Bernie has stature on the world stage.

[jr1118x]

33. Really?

Well I forget who was it that talked about Syria and Iraq funding the Islamic state and then also saying Turkey was allowing Jihadist through its borders and was then forced to apologize. How many other times does he make wrong claims and misstatements and accusations. Now unlike Trump it may not even be deliberate, he might just get confused. But his gaffes can and have led to international incidents.

Now what about as a Senator, Scott Ritter the chief UN Weapons inspector , prior to us invading said this about Biden when he was running the Senate foreign relations Committee "Sen. Joe Biden is running a sham hearing. It is clear that Biden and most of the Congressional leadership have pre-ordained a conclusion that seeks to remove Saddam Hussein from power regardless of the facts, and are using these hearings to provide political cover for a massive military attack on Iraq"

Obama's former defense Secretary Gates in his memoir said " "I think he has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades,”

In 2002 Sanders voted against the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 while Biden supported it.

Sanders opposed Obama's "Surge" offensive in Iraq.

Sanders, foreign policy is definitely not his strongest point because he has been focused on domestic issues. While he may not have the experience or even a stellar record on foreign policy, really only the last decade or so can even say was good, I can also say Joe's record hasn't been great either. Thats the problem with electing senior citizens, they have long histories.

[emmaverybo]

34. I will never be convinced that Bernie Sanders has any business on the world stage. His embrace of

leftist regimes, lack of knowledge, simplistic solutions—no war— and lack of accomplishment make him the last candidate I will vote for. If I must and only in the GE.

Not a Gates fan and Kerry’s endorsement is much more significant to me than his, as well as the fact that Obama wanted Joe for his FP creds and experience and kept him at it for eight years.

Bernie has made some very bad calls, actually more of them than Biden.

If Biden is good enough for world leaders (of democracies), he’s good enough for me.

World leaders tell Biden: We need you

The former vice president would bring deep relationships and heavyweight credentials to a 2020 Democratic field lacking in national security experience.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/20/biden-2020-foreign-policy-national-security-1228345

[jr1118x]

36. Well I doubt we will agree...

OK then we could agree to disagree. Biden to me would be the last candidate I would pick except when it comes to the GE but that is because Trump has set the bar so low, virtually anyone is better. Now being that I live in Utah, GE vote really only matters to the overall popular vote, now way Utah is going blue anytime in the foreseeable future. The last time they voted Democrat was 1952.

This is kinda what scares me about the political future. It seems to me that we are splitting into 2 sides, not just on presidential level but at lower tickets as well. There seems to be the old guard more slightly left of center democrats and the younger (although not necessarily young in age, like Sanders) more progressive side of the party. Both sides think their side is right. and really don't believe or operate nearly the same. I know a lot of younger voters who consider themselves independent but Liberal who likely would not vote for a candidate like Biden, and would probably either sit out or vote 3rd party. I am sure there are people who may protest Sanders too. Unfortunately we won't know which horse was the right one to saddle up on, until after the race is run. Its my opinion that of the 2 candidates supports more Sander's voters would probably sit out/vote 3rd party than Biden's , just because of demographics. Sander's has huge numbers with young voters and Biden has equally huge numbers with older voters. We know older voters usually show up anyway so is he adding to the total number the same as Bernie who can get those people who likely would have either stayed home or not vote D or R would bring in.

While we spend this time even trying to find our voice/vision moving forward every compromise the Republicans are trying to drag us further right and bring us down. I really hope we can narrow the field down to the top 2-3 quickly, let their supporters find their alternates and really vet the ones left. Trump and his base we know are coming and will be brutal to whoever it is. We also know the cheating is going to be a factor so we need to get huge numbers to overcome them. If we can turn the Senate blue as well maybe we can start repairing the damage done but even with a majority I think the Repubs will be at war the whole time with us. Its dangerous times we are living in. Definitely a different world than when I voted the first time for Bill's 2nd term.

[emmaverybo]

37. I do agree on our party divisions and realize we must find a way to greater unity. We need

more progressives in power if we are to survive. I’d rather Warren be that standard bearer. I am well aware of the risk of Sander’s supporters sitting this out if he doesn’t get the nomination. And
we are up against thugs in power who can take what they want by theft because of their unbridled power.

Scary times. Makes the Bill Clinton days look easy and peaceful, but of course they weren’t.

[ehrnst]

39. About Sanders' other Iraq votes...

In 1998 Sanders voted in favor of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, which said: "It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

Later that same year, Sanders also backed a resolution that stated: "Congress reaffirms that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

Sanders also voted for the 2001 Authorization Unilateral Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), which pretty much allowed Bush to wage war wherever he wanted.

Authorization for Use of Military Force - Authorizes the President to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations, or persons.
States that this Act is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of the War Powers Resolution.

[CousinIT]

21. All that...and:

https://www.politicususa.com/2020/02/04/republicans-launch-operation-help-bernie-sanders-win-south-carolina-primary.html

If Republicans are trying to arrange for Sanders to be the nominee and destroying Biden...who do you think they fear most against Trump?

[Gothmog]

23. I am also worried about sanders-there is so much oppo on sanderrs that it scares me

I am very worried about down ballot races. sanders is a very weak candidate and would be easy for trump to destroy. In addition to the well written 101 page memorandum with oppo on sanders with a 1000 pages of backup from the Clinton campaign trump has his own oppo file on sanders that would destroy such a weak and divisive candidate like sanders.

Link to tweet

trump had a two foot thick book of oppo research on Sanders http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

They ignored the fact that Sanders had not yet faced a real campaign against him. Clinton was in the delicate position of dealing with a large portion of voters who treated Sanders more like the Messiah than just another candidate. She was playing the long game—attacking Sanders strongly enough to win, but gently enough to avoid alienating his supporters. Given her overwhelming support from communities of color—for example, about 70 percent of African-American voters cast their ballot for her—Clinton had a firewall that would be difficult for Sanders to breach....

So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers....

The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I don’t know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.

sanders was such a weak primary candidate that the Clinton campaign did not use its oppo but trump would have fun destroying such a weak candidate like sanders

I will vote for the nominee of the party but I fear that the nomination of sanders will lead to a Speaker Kevin McCarthy

[SDANation]

24. 100%!! 👍

[Hortensis]

35. This, and the OP. Also, Sanders is a populist leader,

and that makes the sudden apparent rise in his support very scary. Contempt for democracy is a key trait of populism, and we didn't only see proof positive of that in his attempt to illicitly take the nomination away from the choice of the people in 2016.

We also see evidence now in his promises (as related to the NYT and others) to do end runs as president around the congressmen sent to DC by people all over the nation to represent them. How he'd carry that off and create so much popular pressure on congress that it'd force them to knuckle to him (as the Repubs do now to Trump) is unclear.

Couldn't do it with dissident Democrats alone for sure. The congressional "establishments" of both parties are the creation of those who (had just) elected them, and studies show most people like their own reps. So that uprising would have to include a lot of people who didn't elect what would hopefully be Democratic majorities in order to overset the choices of those who did. The biggest bloc of "other" voices available for Sanders to draw from would be Trump's RW populists. Is that how he imagines doing it? If it is, quite a coincidence, because it's how our intelligence services say Putin imagines it also.

In any case, it's all frighteningly indicative of a contempt for the democratic process and will of the people, a very big thing populist leaders Sanders and Trump seemingly have in common.

Norris emphasizes, there are three basic features that any populist movement shares:

* a rejection of representative democracy in favor of direct rule;
* a criticism of the prevailing power structure (i.e., the “elites”); and
* a single charismatic leader who personifies the movement (Trump or Sanders, not both)

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/30/15078176/donald-trump-bernie-sanders-europe-populism

[k2qb3]

25. Rs are boosting Bernie to create division in the party.

They think the DNC will shaft him no matter what, and they think his supporters will sit out or even vote Trump in response. That narrative from 2016 has a lot of traction.

There's a lot of talk about how stupid a move it is to encourage crossover votes for Bernie in SC, a lot of people think he's the only real threat to Trump.

TARP changed the economic landscape. Climate obliterated it.

It's not 1992 any more.

[LonePirate]

26. As a progressive I am scared of a Biden or Buttigieg or Klobuchar nomination.

None of them inspire the liberal progressive base of the party as none of them are articulating any sort of massive change this country sorely needs - and yes we need some massive change in this country besides the occupant of the White House. I'm sorry but saying you can defeat 45 is not sufficient. We need more than just that.

Perhaps even worse because it is insulting, they seem to be taking the base's votes for granted, turning us into second class citizens as they pursue independents and former Republicans. What the hell is up with that? Attend to the base first then go after those on the margins. In essence, dance with the one who brung ya.

[lynintenn]

27. Exactly how my family feels.

But now we are worried about Biden's chances. They will do a number on him too.

[Celerity]

38. the oppo research book will be thick on Bloomberg too

The Rethugs have zero sense of hypocrisy so they will smash into him as anti A-A via stop and frisk, etc, and supporting Rethugs and running as a Republican himself, and his trans-phobic comments, all with the intention of driving down our turnout, plus dog knows what else

With Pete it will be gay bash 24-7, as well as massive A-A wedge pushes

With Biden it is going to be non stop Burisma and Hunter, especially as the Senate will soon start investigations, aided by the traitorous Barr DOJ, plus painting him as no longer competent

Sanders will have a billion plus dollars in COMMIE!!!!! messaging dropped on his head if he is the nominee

Warren and Klobuchar I doubt will be in the race for long after Super Tuesday, but if they are then it will 100 million tonnes of misogyny and, in Warren's case, commie-light bash-bash

whoever wins our nomination best have teflon armour and be prepared to go for Trump's throat at every level conceivable

we also need to hope for an economic turndown soon, which is a HORRIBLE thing to wish for as it will hurt 10's of millions

[DEbluedude]

28. Your last paragraph says it all. n/t

[Kentonio]

41. I'm not scared of Republicans and I don't care in the slightest who they'd prefer to face

That’s exactly what these corrupt assholes try and do to us every time. They sow division and try and get us second guessing ourselves. They try and get us to pick ‘safe’ options that excite no-one and ignore the mood of the country and the issues people actually care about because we end up so scared of our own shadows that we don’t want to risk being too ‘extreme’ and offering a candidate that actually promises real change.

No more. The twisted healthcare situation has to change. The gross economic inequality has to change. The corruption and corporate finger on the scales of justice have to change.

People deserve better and we should be brave and strong enough to give it to them.

[wyldwolf]

49. But Bernie...

... has magic ‘progressive’ mojo.

Bernie is the messiah that’s been prophesied about since the 1930s. He will win if EVERYONE votes for him.