Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forum'Sort of stunning': Booker rebukes Bloomberg for calling him 'well-spoken'
The senator said he was "taken aback" by the former New York mayor's language.
Sen. Cory Booker on Friday said he was taken aback by fellow Democratic presidential candidate Michael Bloombergs description of him earlier in the day as well-spoken charging that the remark was representative of a failure by some of the partys White House hopefuls to energize black voters and communicate effectively on issues of race.
I was taken aback by it. I'll say this, you know, Mike and I have known each other for a long time," Booker told the Signal Boost radio show on SiriusXM, going on to praise the former New York mayor for the support he offered him several years ago, when Booker was mayor of Newark, New Jersey.
Booker said it was sort of stunning at times that we are still revisiting these sort of tired, you know, tropes or the language we have out there that folks, I don't think understand the fact that they don't understand is problematic.
Booker criticized Joe Biden over the summer for statements the former vice president made about working with segregationist lawmakers during his time in the Senate, and has recently targeted Mayor Pete Buttigieg of South Bend, Ind., for his inability to gain ground within the African American community.
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more at link
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to JoeOtterbein (Original post)
patricia92243 This message was self-deleted by its author.
still_one
(92,396 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Last edited Fri Dec 6, 2019, 05:28 PM - Edit history (1)
intelligent, educated or well-read, while these attributes are considered a given not worth remarking on when white people white people exhibit them.
Vernon Jordan even noted this in the title of his memoir, "Vernon Can Read."
Bloomberg should know better.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JoeOtterbein
(7,702 posts)I was really starting to worry.
Hey wait a minute! Maybe I should be really worried?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
people
(628 posts)So true!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I wont quote it here, but surely everyone is aware of it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)To be called "clean" as in free of scandal, or articulate or well-spoken and have it be a positive is another white privilege.
But why hold onto it even into 2019? When will equality be claimed? Why assume Bloomberg or whoever intends an insult? Obama said nothing about it or forgave it. Booker is asserting his victimhood. Can people elected to the US Senate at least take it as meant to really mean he speaks pretty well? Rather than an implication that it is unusual because black people allegedly usually don't? It seems acceptance of equality would take that. Did he really think Bloomberg meant it that way?
I understand the whole concept, but wonder how long does it go on, and are there always going to be black people who are insulted by this compliment? When is equality achieved and the words mean the same thing whether used to describe a black or white person?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
cwydro
(51,308 posts)They mean well, but...
Otherwise, I agree with your post.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Wow.
"When is equality achieved and the words mean the same thing whether used to describe a black or white person?"
Probably some time after white people stop accusing black people who challenge them of "asserting our victimhood."
Obviously, we're not there yet.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)to stop saying certain things before black people can feel equal. You've made it up to white people, when they perfectly walk on eggshells in every encounter/opinion. No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Did Bloomberg really mean to make Booker feel demeaned on racial grounds? When will the day come when it is not taken that way?
And don't start on the "poor white people" sarcasm. Yes it is not a lot of suffering to have to walk on eggs and watch our words and it's nothing like suffering racial discrimination. The point is when do you let it go, because you're equal (or even a friggin' U.S. Senator, way more powerful than the bulk of white people will ever be).
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)with all the suffering you have to endure "walking on eggshells ..." or as most thinking, feeling people call it, recognizing that being considerate of other people doesn't mean you're being oppressed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Didn't that go along with well spoken?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)There is a history that folks seem to be intentionally ignoring.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Clash City Rocker
(3,398 posts)If you know any black people, ask them about it. Its been a backhanded compliment used by white racists for many years. Im sure Bloomberg didnt mean it that way, but if hes been in public service this long and doesnt know the racial undertones of that word, its disturbing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)It is both a complement to the Black person and a put down of his or her ethnic group. It leaves the impression that most Blacks are not well spoken or even mildly articulate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Blue_true (Reply #37)
patricia92243 This message was self-deleted by its author.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)way to make them feel like they are an exception to their ethnic group.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,433 posts)people would tell you that youre good looking?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #46)
patricia92243 This message was self-deleted by its author.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,433 posts)unhappy someone had catcalled them on the street.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #48)
patricia92243 This message was self-deleted by its author.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,433 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #50)
patricia92243 This message was self-deleted by its author.
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)What we he call him next? Athletic?!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Bloomberg should know that. Instead, he fell back in the trap of the trope that well-spokenness in a black person is unusual enough to merit comment.
Has he referred to any of the other candidates as "well spoken"?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to StarfishSaver (Reply #8)
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StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)And yes, it is complicated. If you're not willing to take the issue seriously and do some work to understand it, perhaps you shouldn't weigh in with snark.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)I suspect Bloomberg, if asked, would also call Mayor Pete "well-spoken." Because he is well-spoken. Elizabeth Warren, as well.
Because that's real. Right?
I'd say the same of Cory Booker and certainly of Barack Obama.
I take your point. It's not that I don't. But...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)Speaking well is just rare. That is why there is Toastmasters! Maybe Biden should practice table topics.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,898 posts)He was Mayor of NYC, a very diverse constituency, for 11 years.
8. You need to understand the context
Bloomberg should know that. Instead, he fell back in the trap of the trope that well-spokenness in a black person is unusual enough to merit comment.
Has he referred to any of the other candidates as "well spoken"?
What is unspoken in his comment is...'for a black man.'
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
FM123
(10,054 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,898 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)I would hate to accidentally say something else that is also taken as a negative because we are supposed to assume it is taken as not meriting comment.
Toastmasters now takes people of any race and the clubs are integrated. Well spokenness is rare in general. There are a lot of inarticulate white people, starting with Individual 1. Or even Biden, a former US Senator and Veep, is said to need help in this area.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)No, I don't think so.
Maybe someone else can try to explain it to you.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mathematic
(1,440 posts)If the two nicest things you can say about a black man are "well spoken" and "athletic", then you might, oh I forget how the joke ends.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jake Stern
(3,145 posts)then what would calling him handsome do? Give him a coronary?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to Jake Stern (Reply #4)
patricia92243 This message was self-deleted by its author.
ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
sheshe2
(83,898 posts)Thank you ChubbyStar.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Clash City Rocker
(3,398 posts)I would think anyone who spends any time around black people would know this already, but maybe Im wrong.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)And the "angry black man" reference isn't helpful to the discussion ...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to JoeOtterbein (Original post)
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BeyondGeography
(39,379 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
monmouth4
(9,709 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BeyondGeography
(39,379 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BeyondGeography
(39,379 posts)Maybe I need a new hobby.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I remember that too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,103 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
IndyOp
(15,535 posts)And Bloomberg is a racist ass-hat.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(92,396 posts)"Cory Booker endorsed me a number of times and I endorsed Cory Booker a number of times," Bloomberg told King. "He's very well-spoken. He's got some good ideas. It would be better the more diverse any group is. But the public is out there picking and choosing and narrowing down this field."
Bloomberg did apologize though because Booker took it in a negative way
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
msongs
(67,441 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
iscooterliberally
(2,863 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Oratory is part of the institution. We know this, and take it for granted when it is white people. That Bloomberg made the observation as if it was a unique characteristic was not mean spirited, but it did reveal that Bloomberg does not take it for granted even when Booker is a US Senator.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dsc
(52,166 posts)the fact is Booker is a better orator than many of the candidates. He definitely is a better speaker than Klobuchar for example. He also is better than many senators. That said, I get why it is a problematic thing for Bloomberg to have said given history.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)We have never questioned whether white presidents and candidates know the basic qualifications for presidency when they decide to run. It was generally taken for granted that they have done their homework and know they meet qualifications- until Obama was elected. When people of color are automatically given the deficit of the doubt in rather the benefit of the doubt, it is pure unadulterated white supremacy. Bloomberg's comment confirmed/revealed his white supremacist leanings. He has had a lot of years to put some effort into self reflection on why he would make the assumption he made and apparently has not considered it to be worth his time or effort.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Being well-spoken just means he can express himself well, a basic skill anyone in public life is expected to have and a quality that is rarely commented on about white people.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)Hell, Biden was a US Senator for years and he is said to make gaffes.
I'm sure we could find many missteps from Senators. The smaller the state, the lesser the pool they are picking from, so some pretty badly spoken people could make it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)You call it a "misstep" when they aren't well-spoken - because it's an exception, an aberration. Senators are expected to be well-spoken. It's not remarkable or even worth noting when they are, because that's what they're SUPPOSED to be. It's when they aren't that we take notice. We call it a "gaffe" because they diverge from the norm.
Booker having the communication skills expected of a US Senator is not worthy of note.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)take into account whom is saying it and how (context). Give me a fucking break.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)That's why we know that what he said is a problem.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Joe941
(2,848 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JoeOtterbein
(7,702 posts)It was not very smart. I remember that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JoeOtterbein
(7,702 posts)And are still angry as hell about it. Like me.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided