Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumLawrence O'Donnell is single-handedly trying to end ...
...Mayor Petes campaign tonight. WTF?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(116,003 posts)He seemed to think that a city mayor was supposed to have done something about the federal deficit, and, worse, he accused him of deliberately lying. That was over the line, IMO. I don't know what's wrong with him.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
squirecam
(2,706 posts)It was a bad ending to a poor argument.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jezebel321
(278 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(49,124 posts)And he would have read the poll analysis saying that some of the support she's lost has gone to Buttigieg.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jezebel321
(278 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BeyondGeography
(39,395 posts)He definitely likes them both. And while both have taken near-term hit in the polls from Pete, he stepped in it big time today and he deserved every bit of the smack down he received.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
cry baby
(6,682 posts)I dont really like it much either, even though I like Pete pretty well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(116,003 posts)And his criticism about deficits was actually directed to the GOP. I don't know why LOD had such a bug up his ass, but accusing B. of deliberately lying crossed a line, IMO.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
cry baby
(6,682 posts)Criticism of Dems isnt necessary to make his point that deficits and debt do matter.
Btw, Dems have cared about those things as long as I can remember...and Im old.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TeamPooka
(24,303 posts)and to stop using GOP talking points to run for the Democratic nomination.
To make himself look good, Buttigieg bashes Democrats with GOP talking point on national deficit
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/12/5/1903767/-To-make-himself-look-good-Buttigieg-bashes-Democrats-with-GOP-talking-point-on-national-deficit
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Explain the plans of the other Dems to reduce the debt.
There doesnt seem to be any.
So Pete isnt wrong here.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TeamPooka
(24,303 posts)He was talking "historically" but go ahead try change what he actually said.
It makes you both look bad.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
When have Dems reduced the debt in the past 20+ years?
They havent.
Obama did reduce the deficit. That isnt nearly good enough.
Its shameful what we are doing to future generations.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)President Obama was handed an absolute shit sandwich. On top of that, a lot of socalled budget reporters are ignoring that President Obama put about 3-4 trillion dollars of debt on the books that Bush had kept off the books. When President Obama put debt on the books to better account for it, that debt got assigned to him, even though Bush ran it up.
Buttigieg is totally wrong, no President in the last century democrat or republican, has decreased the debt, your claim there is bollocks. What several democratic Presidents including President Obama have done is slow the growth of the debt by reducing deficits, Clinton actually left a budget surplus that Bush blew to hell. Trump has increased the deficit that President Obama left by over 100%, thereby increasing the pace of the debt growth.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Slowing the growth of the debt is not nearly good enough. The debt still grows.
None of the front runners actually has a plan to actually reduce the debt.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)When the deficit is reduced to zero, the debt grows due to interest. When there is a surplus, that can be used to start paying down debt, hence reducing debt and interest on debt. In the last 39 years, only two Presudents have managed to slow the growth of debt, that was Clinton and Obama. Carter also slowed the growth of debt, but he is outside that 39 year window.
Exactly HOW?????? will the debt be paid off when deficits are being run, like Trump's which is more that 100% larger than the one that was handed to him. Maybe we can print Three Stooges money and use that to "pay off" the debt while Trump continues to blow up the deficit.
Better yet, ask a republican officeholder why his or her party is historically so shitty on the deficit and hence debt.
Buttigieg is wrong and really need to study up before he talks about deficits and debt again.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
They need to be raised.
I have zero issues with using a wealth tax and paying the deficit and debt with it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I would also eliminate any loopholes where the claimant can't prove that actual jobs (and not just for their accountant) were actually produced.
One issue with a wealth tax is that it has never been tested constitutionally, raising the maximum tax bracket level and eliminating tax loopholes have.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
It was their tax cut that exploded the debt. So why not use their wealth to pay for it....
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)companies held offshore. I don't care where they claim their home or headquarters, if they live predominantly here, they pay the wealth tax or we arrest them until they do pay it, with interest for any delay.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapfog_1
(29,243 posts)instead they propose to use the wealth tax for more spending... and, not only that, but the increased revenue from the new taxes doesn't even cover the new spending.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Typically it boiled down to fair taxation and spending government funds on items that produced more economic activity (hence, more tax revenue). Pete Buttigieg should know that if he is running for our nomination.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
squirecam
(2,706 posts)On the deficit is not a plan to pay down the actual debt.
I keep hearing that Dems are better on a host of issues, but not nearly good enough.
Well, that goes for the debt and deficit too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)go into surplus. Explain to me where we will get the money to pay down debt when we are running a deficit? I repeat, historically democrats have done a better job of taking the deficit toward zero. As a result of reducing the deficit, democrats have historically put the country in a better position to pay down debt. Buttigieg is totally wrong and he needs to be called out hard.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
1 raise income taxes until the deficit is zero.
2 any Warren wealth tax is split 50 50 between new spending and debt payments
3 all future spending must be paid for
Amy has a more conservative plan that addresses it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Have to reverse the trump tax cuts. Suicidal or not.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I would even raise the upper tax bracket to 50% and eliminate all loopholes that don't produce jobs. I also would go after offshore money held by Americans and American corporations and apply a 20% wealth tax to that because the bastards chose to keep it offshore.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Joe941
(2,848 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)in such circumstances, deficits have to go up to stimulate growth.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
evertonfc
(1,713 posts)his show has very low viewership so no one will see it
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bayard
(22,241 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
evertonfc
(1,713 posts)I'm very well connected in progressive politics in my State and most people couldnt tell you who he is. He has a weeknight, late tv show. No one watches not does he carry any significant influence.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)We watch it along with Millions of others. And it is available online for viewing at a later date --- so there's that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Miles Archer
(18,837 posts)I think the neutrality will steadily dissolve, and pundits are going to choose sides in short order. Many of them have, more will follow.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elleng
(131,415 posts)He erred, as do we all.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
brooklynite
(95,010 posts)O'Donnell is a news analyst; anything he brings up will be something the Republicans would throw eventually. The key is that Buttigieg doesn't get tripped up by the criticism.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(116,003 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TeamPooka
(24,303 posts)never vote for a Democratic candidate
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(109,025 posts)comments claiming that the D's don't care about deficit spending. You know as well as I do that both Clinton and Obama made big strides in cutting the deficit, but Reagan and Bush blew the budget apart. It's not fair for Buttigieg to act as if D's don't care enough about the deficit. Pete should find another way to distinguish himself.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MBS
(9,688 posts)It's a given that every single candidate has and will be subjected to criticism, fairly or not.
The strength and character of the candidate will be measured by how he or she responds to that criticism.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dlk
(11,606 posts)He knows what he is talking about. Republican lies have been repeated so many times, they have become part of the narrative-to all our detriment.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(109,025 posts)about D's not caring about the deficit are self-serving and WRONG.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,365 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(109,025 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TeamPooka
(24,303 posts)To make himself look good, Buttigieg bashes Democrats with GOP talking point on national deficit
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/12/5/1903767/-To-make-himself-look-good-Buttigieg-bashes-Democrats-with-GOP-talking-point-on-national-deficit
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Point to a plan to reduce the *debt*. By any of our front Runners?
Because if not, Pete is right. We should be caring more about the debt.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,365 posts)Fuck that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(109,025 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
squirecam
(2,706 posts)Lets just let the earth burn. After all, repugs will simply reverse whatever climate actions we take.
The debt is a problem. The fact that they are ignorant children means that we have to be the responsible ones. Thats what grown ups do. You dont just throw your hands up and spend more money.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)the poor. And how exactly would they do it...some grand sell out bargain?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(109,025 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Im not seeing any debt specific ideas in there either.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(109,025 posts)Elizabeth Warren, for example, at least brings up the issue.
https://elizabethwarren.com/plans/stop-economic-crash
Amy Klobuchar also addresses debt.
https://medium.com/@AmyforAmerica/senator-klobuchars-plan-for-the-future-of-work-and-a-changing-economy-4c7c0b859fec?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)If he wants to criticize the party despite our history in regards to balancing the budgets and lowering the deficit, then he needs to put his money where his mouth is.
Let's just call it what it is, a cheap shot at Warren/Sanders that is often the go to line for any republican.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TeamPooka
(24,303 posts)but spin away.
It's cute.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)President Clinton which is worse in my view than talking about the other candidates. A Democrat running for the highest office should not spout such talking points...IE Democrats are not good on deficit reduction or balancing the budget when every damn time a GOP is elected they blow up he the budget. This was a mistake.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
unc70
(6,129 posts)When I first heard what he said, I was astounded and deeply disappointed. It sounded like Repub talking points. Given my outrage, I can certainly understand LO's.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(113,136 posts)for 3 decades. It hurts to hear it repeated by a Democrat.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)Has Pete even put out a plan in regards to that or was he just attacking Warren/Sanders?
I hope it's the latter because serious debt/deficit reform requires sacrifice and hard cuts that aren't electorally popular.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
judeling
(1,086 posts)did when I first heard it.
Pete stepped in it and will be backing up from this for some time. Warren just went through hoops and political damage to show how she would pay for M4A. Every candidate on stage with him at the debates have included payfors in their proposals.
This is literally a Republican Myth the Democrats have been fighting for Decades.
This one is going to hurt.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
blm
(113,136 posts)GOP talking points for decades it really does hurt when a Dem repeats it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Our kids with debt is not a gop talking point.
It happens to be what is happening. True, they *dont* care. But we sure should.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(113,136 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
But while Pete May have been inaccurate, the issue still remains.
The debt needs to be addressed. Not just the deficit. And Dems have not addressed it nearly enough either.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blm
(113,136 posts)administrations.
If only Republicans would stop blocking the measures needed to address the deficit and debt.
The debt in 2000 was on track to be completely paid off by 2009. Then Bush was weaseled into office and Republicans did what Republicans do....reverse progress and explode the deficit with tax cuts for the rich and war.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
They are horrible hypocrites. We know that.
But Dems need to fix the problem.
That means using a wealth tax for debt reduction 50/50 with spending.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lettucebe
(2,337 posts)and then I heard what he had to say and I was completely in agreement. Buttigieg is wrong. If you didn't hear the segment, please go listen before passing judgment on O'Donnell.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MontanaMama
(23,368 posts)When he started that crap. Come on Lawrence. Disappointing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Joe941
(2,848 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(109,025 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bayard
(22,241 posts)We don't need our own candidates spreading the eternal lie that all Dems do when they get in office is spend, spend, spend. They have hammered it into their voters heads for years, and it has hurt our party substantially. I think that's the biggest reason people are scared of Sander's and Warren's policy proposals.
Per Factcheck, under Clinton admin:
Even under accrual accounting, the annual reports showed surpluses of $69.2 billion in fiscal 1998, $76.9 billion in fiscal 1999, and $46 billion for fiscal year 2000. So even if the government had been using that form of accounting the deficit would have been erased for those three years.
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(109,025 posts)voted for deficit reduction. And then to see this 37 year old come along and act like he knew better and cared more than any of them . . .
O'Donnell had good reason to be angry.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
R B Garr
(17,019 posts)is making Pete look like he does need some schooling. That is a shocking omission.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
We meaningfully pay down the debt? No.
Have we since 93? No.
It needs attention. Dems havent done enough.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
R B Garr
(17,019 posts)surpluses. It was the overarching theme of Clintons presidency.
Dems havent done enough Unbelievable statement, truly.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
squirecam
(2,706 posts)1.9 billion in 1 year and 89 billion in the other is clearly not enough when the debt is in trillions.
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/02/the-budget-and-deficit-under-clinton/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BootinUp
(47,222 posts)Have that much influence imho.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(95,010 posts)I don't watch political opinion shows and don't see them having any appreciable impact on public opinion in the real world.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SKKY
(11,838 posts)...potential candidates.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
stopbush
(24,399 posts)costing them their Congressional seats. Those votes were to reduce deficits. No Rs voted for that legislation. No mention of that from PG. Lawrence was there at the time, working in the Senate when those Ds made those hard votes. Its personal to him.
Lawrence gave PG the benefit of the doubt that he was merely ignorant of history and not consciously twisting the same.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,825 posts)Pete should not have blamed Democrats period.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)and O'Donnell called him out on it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BuffaloJackalope
(818 posts)If Pete can't identify false RW talking points for what they are, that's Pete's problem, not Lawrence's.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
StevieM
(10,500 posts)Stuff like this is why.
I did not like what he said. He needs to issue a thorough clarification and correction.
BTW, Pete, HRC's slogan in 2016 wasn't "I'm with her." It was "Stronger Together." I didn't like it when he got that one wrong, either.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden