Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumStop the Marianne Williamson bandwagon right now. Stop it. By Brian Boyle Los Angeles Times
(snip)
Stirring the pot, generally speaking, is good. But there is one clear exception: celebrity whisperer Marianne Williamson (who, I feel obligated to mention as early as possible, has a history of anti-science, anti-vaccination rhetoric that, alone, should be immediately disqualifying).
(snip)
Look, like most 22-year-olds, the line between genuine appreciation and ironic enjoyment blurred in my head long ago. And I hate to crash the tarot card-reading party. But this has to stop. Now. Because weve seen this before. Give Williamson enough shine as a joke candidate and soon enough voters will start to buy in. No, Williamsons core beliefs arent a fraction as malignant as Donald Trumps. And no, she isnt a one-to-one mirror image. But she politics the same way, and that makes her dangerous. Like Trump, shes uncovered a disaffected corner of the party. The kind that doesnt vote; the kind thats inspired more by an appeal to ill-defined existential emotions than effective policymaking. Like Trump, she projects a coming American apocalypse, tapping into liberal nightmares rather than conservative ones. Like Trump, she then presents herself and her own spiritual gut instinct as the sole (and soulful) path to salvation.
Read this Williamson quote from Tuesday night, which received thunderous applause:
If you think any of this wonkiness is going to deal with this dark psychic force of the collectivized hatred that this president is bringing up in this country, then Im afraid that the Democrats are going to see some very dark days.
Read it again.
Bemoaning wonkiness i.e., intellect and proven political savvy while speaking in vague buzzwords like dark psychic force and collectivized hatred is not too far off from the Trump 2016 playbook. And matching the GOPs anti-intellectualism movement is far from what the Democratic Party, and America, need in 2020. Williamson also called out her peers as part of the corruption problem, thus inherently offering her outside celebrity status as proof she is beholden to no one. Sound familiar? This tweet is practically written in Trumps voice: Theres some corruption that is so deep, ladies and gentlemen. #BigTruth #DemDebate
(snip)
But none of this is surprising. Williamson is a self-help guru (whatever that means) and she knows America is hurting right now. She knows liberals are confused and scared and need direction. This is what she does: offer vague solutions through some combination of positive thinking, religious prayer and spiritual awakening while decrying the expert opinion in the field. In the past, shed simply ask that we buy her book. Now she wants us to make her president. We need to stop this before its too late. In the meantime, please excuse me while I go consult my healing crystals.
http://www.startribune.com/stop-the-marianne-williamson-bandwagon-right-now-stop-it/513517122/
Brian A. Boyle is a 2019 intern with the Editorial Pages of the Los Angeles Times.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tblue37
(65,590 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tarc
(10,479 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MontanaMama
(23,371 posts)Tulsi Gabbard as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Traildogbob
(8,939 posts)Please explain to me. While traveling through western very rural South Carolina 2 month ago to visit my dad in Georgia, the 3 hour drive had literally a dozen Tulsi billboards. Both going and returning on the opposite side of the road. She claims she has nothing but small donors. Rural South Carolona is not a winning location. DNC would not be spending that money there. This is Lindsay country. Tulsi is a Putin apologist, says get over Russian interference, move on. She is a Assad sympathizer. Why target limited money in rural extremely red states? We know Graham is bought and paid for by Puty Pants. We know Puty Pants financed Jill Stien, not to win, to peel away votes. Someone from Rural Kentucky respond to this and let me know if the same is going on in rural red Kentucky. This smells worse than trumps brown stained white pants while golfing. I truly believe she is Puty's new Jill Stien. He knows we are on to Stien, she is no longer needed. Stein is amazingly silent from this new field, and she has never been so out of sight in presidential primaries. Beware, follow the money, if you can. Puty can hide his cash flow extemely well. Would like to know if DNC is spending cash on a losing cause in Lindsayville. South Carolina does not even know Hawaii is a US state. Any thoughts?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MontanaMama
(23,371 posts)But, Malcolm Nance firmly believes that Gabbard is Putin's plant in the Dem party. When Malcolm Nance sounds the alarm bells, I listen to him...he's got zero good to say about Tulsi Gabbard. Why even chance supporting her when there are so many stellar Dems running for president? There are nefarious forces at work at the moment and they support her.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Traildogbob
(8,939 posts)He has been spot on with all 3 of his books. When he speaks, I listen closely. He is the new day short term Nostradamus. All his predictions are happening as stated. Makes me very proud of my Navy career. He is Not an officer. And enlisted man, patriotic beyond what most could possibly comprehend. I would charge an incoming missle at his order. And then they have general Flynn as a trumper. Which is a patriot?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)I have two of them in my area, on the coast. Also, she buys a lot of TV ads on Charleston-area cable. She's been pushing her military service, and that counts for something here.
I'm doubtful that she's doing it anywhere else, if she can finish fourth or even third in SC, that would be noteworthy, and might get her some attention nationally.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Traildogbob
(8,939 posts)Volunteered during Vietnam era. Draft number was 324. I respect her service, but General Flynn served, Tom Cotton served, George Bush served, Lindsay Graham served, many more criminal GOP in congresses served. Money corrupts. Lots of money corrupts lots. Living on service retirement is barely living. Sure seems like Cabbert is spending lots of money, small donation cash, where she would have zero chance, other than peeling votes away from trump's biggest threats, Kamala is a big threat. Let's see if trump starts praising Tulsi, the pro nuke candidate stomping hard in PutY's Lindsay land.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
DaGimpster
(130 posts)I guess this shouldn't be a huge surprise, but her billboards are plastered all over Iowa. It's a picture of her, and a slogan like "courageous heart" or something along those lines.
I saw a couple of the same ones on a drive from IA to FL as well, but I forget where.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)she's targeting the early primary states. Not unexpected at this point in the process.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
FakeNoose
(33,002 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapfog_1
(29,251 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(116,111 posts)It's true that Trump has created some kind of dark "psychic force of collectivized hatred," but her solution - some fuzzy notion of "love" - isn't going to fix that problem. I'd like to see the candidates crawl out of the weeds of their legislative proposals because presidents don't do legislation and none of their plans will make it through Congress intact, but obviously a certain level of precision and focus is required. They can focus on the important big-picture ideas while rejecting all that silly spiritual fog. And then there's the fact that she's something of an anti-vaxxer, and her ideas about depression and mental illness are anti-scientific and seriously dumb. She won't be the nominee, but she really ought to go back to selling self-help books to rich people with first-world anxieties.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Docreed2003
(16,916 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)We need candidate criteria that will eliminate frivolous candidacies. People who want to sell books or increase their speaking fees, or even harness love and other mystic forces, need to stick to other ways, including running as Republicans.
On the plus side, one post-debate poll this morning shows her support hasn't grown. If it's at all accurate, there's no "bandwagon."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)the poll numbers, signatures, contributions or whatever else was required.
And while she has no chance in hell of being nominated, I really have no problem adding her voice to the cacophony. Back when there were fewer candidates, we all enjoyed coverage of Vermin Supreme-- and he's running again this year, but no one noticed.
I don't equate Williamson with Supreme, but she has every much a right to be there as Andrew Yang, and a few others.
And as much of a right to fail.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lostnfound
(16,208 posts)but I agree with the concern expressed here
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hekate
(91,181 posts)...to home. She really should not be running....
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mtnsnake
(22,236 posts)The longer she is included with the other candidates, the more damage she will do to our front runners and our chances.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
question everything
(47,645 posts)and I concluded
"But then, if we have a TV personality sitting in the White House, why not a love guru? "
Even on these pages, some think that she should be in the debate, someone asked me what i had against her. And this scares me. Many main stream Republicans, like David Brooks, thought that Trump was a joke that he won't make it..
Just now on Ali Velshi he had a table of the nominees, and she is ahead of Klobuchar!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mathematic
(1,442 posts)Needless to say, agree 100%. I'm glad to see the point being made in the press.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Paladin
(28,297 posts)But if I had, yesterday's supportive NYT column by right-wing twerp David Brooks would have extinguished it, tout fucking sweet. Talk about attracting the wrong sort of company.....
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
question everything
(47,645 posts)Why does he think that she is different, in her campaign, in her (lack of) experience, in relying on a celebrity status?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,113 posts)Neither person expect(s,ed) to win.
I trust Democrats will not make a tRumpian mistake.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
FakeNoose
(33,002 posts)Or maybe they did realize it, and they didn't care.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Pepsidog
(6,254 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LW1977
(1,238 posts)Not really a democratic figure either. Hope a jury doesnt erase this post for telling it like it is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bronxiteforever
(9,287 posts)Along with his whole dirtbag party. We do not need another anti science idiot around, especially in our Party.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
theophilus
(3,750 posts)our fucked up society of today. She is no where near my top picks but I do like the love part of her message. Love is the best way to counter HATE and that is what we are up against. Love is not a squishing "feeling". Love is a powerful "doing". It is patient, and kind, and that other important stuff that usually produces a positive feeling in a human that has a heart.
Mayor Pete speaks of his faith and that includes love. Mr. Booker has been known to speak of love and compassion. Many of the others. Whoever wins this nomination thing better have Love in their toolbox and know how to use it. This society has a great need of agape love whether we know it or not.
Being mean will just continue to split us. Vlad doesn't care who "wins" as long as we are totally torn asunder.
Give love a chance and let's don't crucify anyone this time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,113 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OnDoutside
(19,990 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
watoos
(7,142 posts)On vaccines and her analysis is spot on. She is not an anti vaxer. She wants the government and scientists to study vaccines instead of leaving Big Pharma with the reins.
Want to know what self help means? You can make yourself sick with your mind and you can cure yourself with your mind. Explain why placebos cure people. Williamson makes more sense than a lot of our candidates.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,113 posts)A person who shoots themselves in the foot does not have an X-Ray machine and physiotherapy equipment to cure themselves. Very few people "make" themselves mentally ill. Almost all people who fall mentally ill have a biochemical imbalance or have been injured by external circumstances.
Placebos are not self-help! They are external actions even if nominally empty. Their occasional effectiveness is not evidence of self-help.
The government and scientists are ALREADY STUDYING vaccines. Duh. Saying they need to study them is simply parroting anti-science propaganda based on that discredited scientist who faked data.
The principle of vaccination was discovered and vaccines themselves were invented centuries ago, not by Big Pharma.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
moriah
(8,312 posts)... though the number of actual "conversion disorders" vs doctors who want to tell their patients that ailments like fibromyalgia, etc, are "all in your head" is very low...
Belief in God is NOT more powerful than the AIDS virus. It doesn't matter how hard you pray, without antivirals it's still gonna kill you.
And placebos *don't* cure people, not when statistics come into play to control for ordinary changes in a condition (even with cancer or AIDS, there's gonna be good days and bad days). That's why placebo-controlled double-blind studies are used -- to see if a medication is more effective than the perception they are getting care. And yes, the perception of getting care does help a person -- but it doesn't cure their illness.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(116,111 posts)depression and mental illness, not so much.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
watoos
(7,142 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
IronLionZion
(45,703 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,113 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
IronLionZion
(45,703 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,113 posts)Doesn't matter how much Williamson says she loves everyone.
Propagating serious health problems is NOT love.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
IronLionZion
(45,703 posts)On Wednesday, Williamson told Melber: Its an overstatement to say that I cast skepticism on vaccinations. On the issue of vaccinations, Im pro-vaccination. Im pro-medicine. Im pro-science.
She continued: On all these issues, what Im bringing up ... is questions about the role of predatory Big Pharma.
Her skepticism was more of the health care industry and big pharma, not the people who need treatment. I can't believe I have to defend this woman here on DU, of all places. She's not even my candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,113 posts)All that means is somebody in a clinic said it, Williamson said in the clip.
The author apologized on Wednesday, saying she was speaking glibly.
That was wrong of me to say, and Im sorry that I said it, Williamson told Melber.
Only after being called on it does she, with modified self-interest now that she is a politician, recant some of her nonsense.
Serious people with serious policies do not speak glibly on serious topics.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
IronLionZion
(45,703 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,113 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bradshaw3
(7,560 posts)Democrats are either the party of science and facts or they are not. You don't get to pick and choose which science facts you believe in and that which you don't. That's what the repubs do. Her perspective all about the source bullshit. If you are sick it is your fault. I can't believe people on DU fall for this BS.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
IronLionZion
(45,703 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
robersl
(83 posts)I agree with you that "bogus health shit is a threat to everyone" but she is neither anti-vax nor bogus.
Listen to her interview with Ari Melber if you want to get your facts straight.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,113 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yuiyoshida
(41,878 posts)this Democratic party, she is too far off that limb of the tree to be bothered with.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(146,209 posts)Is there really a bandwagon for this person? Why?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
littlemissmartypants
(22,966 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
question everything
(47,645 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)I didn't know anything about Williamson, nor did I know she's one of Winfrey's gurus. I don't disagree with her statement she made during the debate. Trump is a ''dark psychic force'' to be reckoned with, and there is an ever growing ''collectivized hatred'' infecting our nation, it's called white supremacy and racism. Marianne has as much right to run for president as you or I.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)...shouldn't we be equally concerned the anti-vaxxing crystal worshippers will do the same?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Funtatlaguy
(10,905 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
question everything
(47,645 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,113 posts)She has the right to do that and the Democratic Party has the right to ignore her and deny her access that she doesn't earn.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
iluvtennis
(19,931 posts)Hillary should have received.
Don't get me wrong, ppl should be able to vote for whoever they want to vote for. However in 2016, we were in dire stratits with the orange madman on the ticket and I think ppl should have voted for the candidate who could win.
nfortunately due to the two party dominance in the current system, this is necessary. I look forward to the day where there is no pary affliation and ppl get to choose from a short list of candidates and it's one person, one vote and none of this EC stuff.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NRaleighLiberal
(60,044 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #30)
Bernardo de La Paz This message was self-deleted by its author.
greatauntoftriplets
(175,786 posts)Does she use a GOOP vaginal egg?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2018/09/05/gwyneth-paltrow-goop-vaginal-egg-settlement/1201152002/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bradshaw3
(7,560 posts)She is not harmless or spouting "words we need to hear" as some on here have said. She said in the last debate that the answers to our problems won't be found on the debate stage and that policies aren't important. How is that any different than what Bernie has said and been villified for on here for attacking Democrats?
To her and her followers the answers are all to be found within - greedy billionaires. power-hungry autocrats - don't take them to task. If you're sick or poor, it's your fault. It's pretty sad when a 22-year-old intern has more sense than some DUers who have bought her schtick.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Funtatlaguy
(10,905 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
calguy
(5,355 posts)I've heard Bernie speak dozens of times and he has yet to motivate me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bradshaw3
(7,560 posts)I compared the reaction people had (rightly or wrongly) to Sanders comments while nothing has been said about Williamson's comments about the other Democrats on stage. Hopefully you can understand the difference now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Funtatlaguy
(10,905 posts)The person who said it is a dumass, not you.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bradshaw3
(7,560 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
watoos
(7,142 posts)Yesterday and she was not what everyone here is describing her to be.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
robersl
(83 posts)I'm not voting for Marianne for president, but she is saying something very important.
Trump is a world-class textbook demagogue. Absolutely unoriginal. His every move is tried and true by tyrants of the past.
She is the only one addressing his demagoguery for what it is. Other candidates certainly condemn Trump, but she is pointing out his methodology.
And until the professional politicians on the debate stage pick up her point, I want to continue to hear her.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
I'm so tired of people being ALL CAPS ANGRY that someone has the gaul to get involved in the democratic process. i guarantee the people SO ANGRY at her are the same ones who wanted Bernie to drop out after South Carolina in 2016 and wanted Brown to drop out before California in 1992 and think Jesse Jackson probably should have never run in 1988.
This is a democracy. We are supposed to be free. Free to run, free to vote, free to choose. Williamson says things that need to be said. Everyone else is promoting censorship for wanting her to shut up.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
nini
(16,672 posts)This is not a freaking game. Our futures depend on getting a qualified person in place to save our democracy.
It makes me nuts to think she's even on the stage with the qualified candidates we have.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yaesu
(8,020 posts)for office can be economically lucrative & many have made a good living doing so plus the publicity that it brings. I'm thinking that is her motivation but I may be wrong.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MBS
(9,688 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Ponietz
(3,095 posts)Thanks for the cold water.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bronxiteforever
(9,287 posts)Is that she trying to transition compassion into policies which is hard work in the political arena and to me that is the essential difference between us and the other side.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skittles
(153,428 posts)I am angry and sickened and hell bent on getting that fascist fucker OUT THE WHITE HOUSE
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)She is not anti vaccination . As for policy I heard her get deep into that both on MSNBC one Sunday and as the early guest on Bill Mahers Show, I respect and listen a lot to Thom Hartmann and he praises her constantly.
Yes she has virtually no chance but she is not remotely similar to Tulsi Gabbard, who has virtually no chance either.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,674 posts)But I'm a fan after watching her knock Buck Sexton in the dirt while all Bill Maher did was suck him off.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dflprincess
(28,101 posts)She didn't let him get away with anything. I think her true calling is as a guest on talk shows calling out right wingers.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Grasswire2
(13,579 posts)NEVER
NEVER
EVER
NEVER
NEVER
NEVER
EVER
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
myohmy2
(3,256 posts)...was the candidate on the end, right?...
...I've never heard of her before the debate,
" "If you think any of this wonkiness is going to deal with this dark psychic force of the collectivized hatred that this president is bringing up in this country, then Im afraid that the Democrats are going to see some very dark days." Marianne Williamson "
...she impressed the hell out of me...while everyone else was arguing over their latest list of doodads, she was hammering away at our current zeitgeist and psyche, and she nailed it...
" Give Williamson enough shine as a joke candidate and soon enough voters will start to buy in. "
...now that's just plain mean...
...I'll bet Brian's powder is getting wet...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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