This is my first post on this forum

[Cyrano]

I'm still undecided as to a candidate. I like, in order, Warren, Harris, Buttigieg, and Biden.

But here's one thing I'm certain of. Pete Buttigieg can't win.

As intelligent, charismatic and qualified as he is, there are still too many people in America who won't vote for a gay man.

Go ahead and beat me up on this thread. But it won't change what I consider to be a reality.

I believe race, gender and age don't matter that much anymore.

But whatever people tell pollsters, or say out loud, or tell themselves, there is still a tremendous gay bias in America.

As I said, this is my first time on this thread. This issue may have been debated a thousand times here. I don't know.

But I do know that the number one priority of America is to rid ourselves of the orange disease.

And I fear that too many Dems and Independents would sit out voting for a gay man. Which means I don't have much confidence in the intelligence of American voters. Even Democrats.

[bluewater]

1. I strongly disagree.

Back in 2007-2008 people were making a very similar argument against Barack Obama.

Pete Buttigieg is an outstanding person and a very strong candidate. And if chosen as Nominee would win in 2020.

[doc03]

2. I agree 100% nt

[left-of-center2012]

3. You know what they say about opinions ...

Everybody's got one.

[Skittles]

4. I remember some saying a black man couldn't win, but he did

and people saying a woman couldn't win.....but she did (she was CHEATED out of presidency)

you're right, a gay man cannot win ...... until one DOES

[Tipperary]

18. Boom.

This x 1000!

[SouthernProgressive]

5. Let it all hang out in your first post!

I do strongly disagree about race and gender. The impact is big.

Not going to knock you for what you said about MP. For one, it’s nice to be in the company of people who understand the prevalence of the issue in society today. Second, it’s simply a topic worthy of discussion.

[Cyrano]

7. Thanks for the thoughtful reply, SP

I certainly hope I'm wrong. I'd love to see him nominated and then win.

However, I tend to agree with H.L. Mencken's statement that: "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."

Over the years, I've become more and more convinced that intelligence is rare on planet Earth.

Maybe, just maybe, for the second time after Obama, Americans will see fit to elect someone who the haters consider "unacceptable/barely human."

Who knows? Maybe there is some balance/justice in the universe.

[MontanaMama]

6. I have to respectfully disagree.

I see a gay man getting elected ahead of a woman...there are so many misogynistic assholes running the country. And, just for the record, I am also undecided and support Harris, Buttigieg, Warren and Bullock. After watching the trailers for the upcoming Mr. Rogers movie it occurred to me that there is a little touch of Fred Rogers in Mayor Pete. His kindness, measured tone and all around general goodness radiates off him. We are in desperate need of a measured tone and goodness at this moment, imho.

[SCantiGOP]

9. My opinion:

Anyone who will not vote for a gay candidate is probably a Trumper anyway.

I refuse to let the bigots and haters tell me who my potential list of candidates is and whom I should support.

[Mr.Bill]

10. It took my wife to remind me

that black men got both the right to vote and the presidency before any women did. I mean I know that, of course, I just never really thought about it.

[trev]

12. Not true.

The 15th Amendment was ratified in 1870. Wyoming gave women the vote in 1869.

[spooky3]

13. That's one tiny state. The Constitutional Amendment giving all women the right to

vote came 50 years later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_suffrage

[trev]

15. The poster said "*any* women".

Not countrywide.

[Mr.Bill]

16. Thank you for that detail.

It's interesting but I was speaking about the entire country.

Now the only thing is do I dare risk telling my wife she was wrong? Could be dangerous.

[trev]

25. LOL

[Politicub]

11. Gay people have always been told to wait or that it's too early

Gay is only one attribute of Buttigieg. He’s also wicked smart and has amassed quite a large following. No one in the race can match his communications ability.

[Gothmog]

14. Good first post

My trouble with Mayor Pete is that being mayor of a large town does not qualify you to be POTUS. I have a couple of towns near my home that are all larger than South Bend.

[Tipperary]

17. People said the same thing when President Obama was running.

I disagree.

[ucrdem]

19. Yeah but he sure knocked the stuffing out of Beto.

Not that I suspect anything nefarious but that was really remarkable.

[marylandblue]

20. People won't vote for a lot of things... until they do.

[Amimnoch]

21. Given the way POTUS is elected, I tend to agree.

If I could wave a wand and select the next President, I’d have a hell of a time picking between Buttigieg and Warren.

I do believe he could win the popular vote by a large amount.

However, given the states that are in the “swing” category, and most of their histories on gay rights/marriage, I do worry that if he wins the nomination, Cheetolini will still win the 270.

Just 2004, Michigan voted to ban recognition of same sex marriage in the state by 58%.

2006, Wisconsin through voting in a constitutional amendment banning the recognition of gay marriage. It took the courts to overturn it in 2014.

1996, Pennsylvania, by vote banned the recognition of same sex marriage or domestic partnerships. Once again it took court ruling in 2014 to get this overturned.

Now I know these votes, especially the one in Pennsylvania, were a number of years ago, and I also acknowledge that public opinion all over has shifted over the years. That said, there’s nothing I’ve seen that gives me confidence that these states which MUST be carried to oust Cheetolini have evolved enough to get us there.

[Trenzalore]

22. It really all depends on how bad things are November 2020

Obama won Indiana the first time around. Having lived there for 4 years the idea a democrat, let alone an African American Democrat from Chicago could win Indiana would seem impossible in 2006.

[sellitman]

23. Disagree

Whoever is voting Trump is voting as a bigot.

We would never get that vote. We wouldn't want that vote.

Pete would wipe the floor with tRump in a debate. I doubt the Orange Monster would even show up for one.

[BootinUp]

24. The human factor is missing from your equation. Nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. The people who won't vote for him because he's gay are the same people

who won't vote for him because he's a Democrat. He's amazingly bright and a natural politician, and while I tend to doubt he'll get the nomination this time - and that would be because of his relative lack of experience, not his sexual orientation - he has a great future, and because he's so young he has plenty of time to try again. In the meantime I'd like to see him with a WH job, like Chief of Staff or Communications Director.

[Drunken Irishman]

27. I disagree. I think he could win as a gay man. He won't win because he's a mid-sized town's mayor.

There's a dearth of national experience there. Sure, Trump proved you don't need experience to win but Trump is now president, so, that's legit his only strength. I just don't believe a medium-sized mayor has the experience needed to unseat an incumbent president.

[radical noodle]

28. Now that people feel free to be honest

about their sexuality, people have found that some of their close (and loved) relatives are gay. I think that more than anything has turned the tide. I know folks who did a big turn-around after discovering someone they loved was gay.

[customerserviceguy]

30. Exactly

The only people who think they don't know a gay person are those that are so toxic that gay people will not come out to them.

[radical noodle]

36. And they'll vote for trump

if they vote at all.

[customerserviceguy]

29. There is a bias

but unlike the days when many states were staining their constitutions with amendments banning equal marriage, many voters know a family member, family friend, or neighbor who is gay. The die-hards will never vote for a straight Democratic candidate, anyway.

I sincerely hope you are wrong about Democratic voters feeling that way.

[dalton99a]

31. His race relations record will prevent him from getting the nomination

If nominated, his TIME cover will prevent him from getting in the White House

It's our current political reality.

[Comatose Sphagetti]

32. Agreed

He is an excellent person/candidate.
But there is no way you're going to find Buttigieg campaign signs or people to vote for him out here in rural Jesus-land.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

33. According to a Gallup poll earlier this year...

... many more Americans are willing to vote for a gay or lesbian candidate than an atheist (like me), among several other categories.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/254120/less-half-vote-socialist-president.aspx

[Indygram]

35. Let's see the poll of all the evangelicals and religious zealots who normally don't vote

Who will vote for Trump in order to prevent a same sex couple from moving into the White House. It's NOT about who would vote for it is also how many more people would come out to vote AGAINST. Sorry, but if Democrats take this risk with America's future they will lose and Trump will get 1-2 more supreme court picks.

[Indygram]

34. I think it's far too risky because if Trump is re-elected we may not have a country left

I think if Buttigieg is the nominee that it will open up the floodgates of normally non-voting evangelicals and religious zealots who will crawl naked over hot lava and broken glass in order to vote to prevent a same sex couple from stepping foot into the White House. I would be alright in taking that risk under normal circumstances but this is NOT normal circumstances. Nominating any candidate that will inspire new Trump supporters to vote is just asking to lose.

[bluewater]

37. So are you and the majority of responders saying Pete should not be on the ticket at all?

That he shouldn't be the nominee nor on the ticket as VP?

Is that what people are really thinking?

The man out fund raised every other candidate in the last quarter!

[William769]

38. I disagree.

I thought we were over this bs. I can't even begin to count the times people on DU said this isn't the time for Gay marriage or this is a wedge issue and if we fight for it it will doom us. Well guess what? We have Gay marriage. Again I can't even begin to count how many times I heard we would never have a African American President in our lifetime. President Barack Obama ring a bell to anyone.

Let's stop with why we can't or won't, and start with why we can and will.

[bluewater]

39. Most of the responses in this thread have me shaking my head.

It's 2019.

Again, I ask, are people here saying that Buttigieg should not be on the 2020 ticket at all?

[William769]

40. I'm used to it, But I won't stop calling them out.

Good to see you doing the same.