The story to me isn't about Bidens statement about working with segregationists.

[SouthernProgressive]

We all agree that it really wasn't offensive. More people now understand that as they have had time to actually read what he said and not just what came to them by way of social media.

Symone Sanders hit on the real offense. His sensible statement is being used against him in a "willfully disingenuous" manner.

Please understand that. People are using race to attack Biden in a willfully disingenuous manner.

I understand a politicians motives to do so. No free passes for everyone else. Using race in a willfully disingenuous manner as is being done is either racist or politically motivated. Either way, it is a statement about those doing the attacking. Not Biden.

[BeyondGeography]

1. The story, and it's an old one, is Biden's gift for the self-inflicted wound

And I wish people would stop deflecting from that eternally relevant unpleasant fact.

[SouthernProgressive]

3. I don't see this as a self-inflicted wound.

The attacks are so wild there is no way to avoid such foolishness. Additionally, I don't consider this to be a wound. Biden will gain favor because of these pathetic attacks. People don't like seeing a nice guy and ally attacked in such a weak and highly questionable manner.

[BeyondGeography]

6. Stop coddling him

That's another thing that's getting really old.

His own campaign staff warned him about not telling war stories about the good old days with Eastland. He didn't listen and we've spent the better part of the week unpacking his ineptitude. If other candidates want to swing for the fences with it, that's their issue. But he opened the door and if you think they're paying a higher price for it than Biden, you're wrong.

[SouthernProgressive]

7. I'm not coddling him in the slightest.

As Bernie Sanders 2016 Press Secretary said, "willfully disingenuous."

The attacks are just as I stated above. If the accurate assessment bothers you it doesn't mean you need to make additional false claims about others. Like you claiming I am coddling him.

[BeyondGeography]

10. "People don't like seeing a nice guy and ally attacked"...please

This is a nominating contest for President of the US. He's the front runner, he stumbled, they pounced. When does that not happen?

[SouthernProgressive]

11. He didn't stumble.

They did pounce. Those two sentences go hand in hand with those attacking being "willfully disingenuous." It's why the attacks are "willfully disingenuous." It's a statement on those pushing the attacks.

He is the frontrunner. That does not mean all attacks are created equal.

"People don't like seeing a nice guy and ally attacked"

No question about that. People really don't like it at all. More than that, POC don't like seeing an ally "willfully" and "disingenuously" attacked when it comes to issues of race. Like the manner in which he interacts with women and girls being used as an attack, this is also going to backfire on his opposition. It's already happening.

Thank you for moving on from your false "coddling" argument.

[BeyondGeography]

12. His own staff acknowledged to the media he messed up

Sheesh.

https://politicalwire.com/2019/06/20/aides-urged-biden-not-to-mention-eastland/

They also apparently wish they could get through to him better:

“As seemingly random as it was for Biden to reference Sen. James O. Eastland, a long-ago deceased segregationist senator from his own party, some in Biden’s campaign had heard him discuss this relationship before — and warned him against mentioning it in public. Eastland, who represented Mississippi in the Senate from the early 1940s to 1978, often said that African Americans were ‘an inferior race.’”

“Aides said they had urged Biden to find a less toxic example.”

Said one: “It might move him to pick a different senator. But he’s not someone you can go to and just say, ‘You’ve been doing this x number of years and you can’t do this anymore.'”

[SouthernProgressive]

13. That is pretty weak.

I know some hang off the words of every politicalwire story they read.

I'm going to stick with the great John Lewis.

[BeyondGeography]

15. If you're thinking it through

The fact that his staff went to the media with their concerns tells you they worry about a repeat just around the corner. Experience is their guide.

[SouthernProgressive]

18. There is nothing to that politicalwire story.

I get why stories like that are important to people and how they get them.

"Experience is their guide."

No doubt about it. Biden is the most experienced person running.

"coddling" "if you are thinking it through"

So personal. So very personal. Some just can't help it. But that is how these "willfully disingenuous" attacks come about.

[mtnsnake]

57. "Biden is the most experienced person running"

Yes, and that's without a doubt one of his major liabilities. Some of his past experiences, which have already been discussed at length, are not good experiences. Many of those experiences, whether it's his crime bill of 1994, his handling of Anita Hill, his touchy feely tendencies, or his gaffes on a regular basis, it all adds up to having way too much baggage that would not fare well in a general election.

[marylandblue]

14. Nothing backfired. At best, he held his ground and will hold on again.

But to not see this as a self-inflicted wound is itself disingenuous. You don't hand your opponents a knife and say "how dare you stab me in the back?"

I really wish he just owned his gaffes instead of being outraged by his opponents acting like opponents. I have a lot more confidence in somebody who says "Yeah sometimes my stories don't come out right, I'm still the best person to run the country."

[SouthernProgressive]

16. I don't agree. At all.

If he holds his ground it is a clear backfire. He isn't going to go up. Look at where he is in a 24 person field.

As Sanders said, "willfully disingenuous."

[marylandblue]

21. How is holding his ground backfiring? It's just a wash, it didn't help or hurt him.

As for "willfully disingenuous." Well duh! The word "campaign" can refer to either a military campaign or a political campaign. That's not a coincidence. Never was it more true than in the age of Trump.

I wish it weren't like this. But here we are anyway. Can we stop crying foul and bring out the heavy artillery?

[SouthernProgressive]

24. Biden and Warren are the heavy artillery.

And any time Biden holds ground is a win. His numbers are insane. It would take his competitors losing multiple points, or multiple percentages of undecideds changing preference, to even move him up in the polls a little.

[okieinpain]

48. +1 n/t

[emmaverybo]

51. He said nothing wrong, did nothing wrong. People are inflicting their agendas on him. As it turns

out, even his mentioning the way Eastland addressed younger guys was not his bringing up “boy” as a racial epithet. The segregationist senator used the word boy on Ted Kennedy.
I wish people would stop willfully misinterpreting what Joe says or does or buying into the gaslighting.

[NYMinute]

2. The real story is not what Biden said.

The real story is how what Biden said was nefariously and deceitfully misrepresented and spun for the benefit of one candidate by David Sirota and his media sycophants like Charlie Pierce.

That is what the focus should be on.

[SouthernProgressive]

4. Exactly. NT

[Politicub]

8. The question then becomes, what can Biden do better next time?

Sirota and the clown car of people hired to disrupt are not going away.

Ignoring them doesn’t work. I don’t know the answer to how Biden can shift the narrative. Getting Lewis on his side was great. The pace of the developing narrative is moving faster than the Biden campaign can blunt it, though.

[SouthernProgressive]

9. I'm not sure he needs to do "better."

I'm not convinced this isn't going to help him. I'm certain that the attacks about his interactions with women helped him.

[marylandblue]

17. If it helped, it's only because he apologized and promised to do better.

Then made fun of himself. He's not doing that this time. It's too early to tell what will happen this time. But he has a reputation for gaffing a lot and he should just own. Own it and you get away with it. Blame the media or your opponents for trying to use it against you and you look weak.

[SouthernProgressive]

19. I think the willfully disingenuous nature of the attacks alone will help him.

That is really bad. Willfully and disingenuously using race to attack someone. It's not a good look on the person doing the attacking.

[marylandblue]

22. Booker is not likely to win anyway. Nor is Sanders. But the attacks can still hurt Biden.

If he strengthens his position after each one, then he wins. But so far I'm not seeing that.

[SouthernProgressive]

26. If it doesn't hurt him in the polls, then it is helping him.

It's almost impossible to hold such a strong forerunner position.

[marylandblue]

28. His frontrunner position is historically weak.

People make too much of the gap between Biden and 2nd place, and not enough of the gap between him and 50%. The best thing Biden has is that the field is fragmented. If it stays that way, he wins. But voters may coalesce around one or two opponents. Then he has a real race. It's too early to say which will happen, but I'm sure he wishes he were a lot closer to 50% than he is.

[Politicub]

33. I don't have the, "Relax. I've got this" vibe yet.

I want to see him do well, so I hope you’re right.

It has been a week where his campaign has been reacting rather than leading from the front. That stance will need to shift. We are all watching for his next move.

[SouthernProgressive]

34. "I don't have the, "Relax. I've got this" vibe yet."

I fully agree with this. Someone, and I have my wishes, will be sneaking up on him.

[marylandblue]

42. Exactly. I knew it was a problematic gaffe the moment I saw it, long before anyone exploited it.

We can fault his opponents all we want, They weren't going anywhere anyway. On the other hand, while Biden is not my first choice, he may still be the nominee. I want a nominee who won't be sucker punched and then cry about it. This is nothing compared to what Trump will do. And unlike Sanders and Booker, Trump has deadly accuracy.

I want a nominee who doesn't expect his opponents to play by the rules, doesn't let down his guard, and can shut down stories like this before they go anywhere. We've had candidates like that, and they are the ones who win. We need someone like that more than ever.

The worst thing we Democrats can do is not a circular firing squad. The worst thing we can do is send in a champion unprepared for battle.

[Politicub]

47. Yes!!

This:

The worst thing we Democrats can do is not a circular firing squad. The worst thing we can do is send in a champion unprepared for battle.

[MBS]

49. + 10,000.

You said it perfectly. Thanks.

For me, also, this is THE sentence:

The worst thing we Democrats can do is not a circular firing squad. The worst thing we can do is send in a champion unprepared for battle.

[NYMinute]

39. I think Biden will explain his statements

after uttering them. He won't leave anything implied.

The statement will be, "Look, I worked with the most heinous and nefariously racist senators to find a common ground. They demeaned me by calling me 'son' and if I were black they'd have called me 'boy' but I still struggled to find some common ground for the American people. Shutting them out would not have achieved anything."

[emmaverybo]

53. Never speak again except on script. Never be Biden again. Never be the personality who engages

people with his authenticity and good will. With every word he is about to utter, think through how
it might be twisted, Make a list of all that is verboten, actions or words, all past behaviors rivals and neurotics have taken offense at, and never, ever bring up or do again.

Reminds me of Fawlty Towers when Germans come to eat at the inn and Fawlty has to tell himself
“Don’t mention the war.” He ends up goose-stepping to their table.

He can drop out because he’s being incessantly hounded despite his own best intentions.

Gawd I hope he doesn’t. We need him regardless of the outcome. He brings gifts to the table no
other candidate can match. He will make the competition better. He gives hell to Trump and he calls us all to the real fight, for the soul of the country.

Go Joe.

[redstateblues]

5. You nailed it! This ginned up outrage is is pretty obviously meant to make 2% into something more

[crazytown]

20. Cory Booker gave the contoversy credibility,

by willfully distorting the incident for political gain. Biden's response was undisciplined.

[George II]

23. It's mostly those "2nd Tier" candidates and the surrogates of others doing this.

[Hav]

25. Good points

A major thing to keep in mind is indeed that if his statements were such an outrage, there wouldn't be any need for red herrings and misconstructions. They would have attacked him exactly for what he said and not for how they chose to interpret it. I wouldn't even call this a self-inflicted wound. It's pretty easy to understand what he meant.

[Indygram]

27. To me the issue started out with Biden being careless with choice of words, but no one thinks he is

a racist. The whole "boy" bit was hurtful and Cory Booker had every right to say so. What the REAL issue to me is that Biden demanded Cory apologize to him. That was way out of line, IMO. Booker did NOTHING wrong. He found the reference to "boy" to be offensive. So do I.

[SouthernProgressive]

29. I have never jumped on the apology purist train.

I don't think any of them have anything to apologize for. The only people who should apologize are all of the others who are willfully and disingenuously using race as a way to attack someone, but we already understand the limits of their character.

[Celerity]

31. +1

[Gothmog]

38. According to Symone Sanders, Biden did not praise a segregationist

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Indygram]

50. It's not about who he was talking about or working with the other side or his intent

In the process of what he was saying he used an EXTREMELY HURTFUL term that is almost as bad as using the n-word to many people. He wasn't even quoting the guy when he said it which is what makes it an issue.

THAT is why people are upset. It's not who he was talking about or the point he was trying to make. It is that out of ALL examples he could have used he chose use one that included a very racist term.

When Cory Booker tried to explain that Biden demanded that Booker apologize for that explanation.

THAT is why people are upset.

[mopinko]

30. oh ferfucksakes.

it smells like a trump rally in here.

lots of people were pretty inclined to let the original comment go, then he was stupid enough to use the word "boy".
and do so in a spectacularly stupid way, imho.

if you are joe biden, you already know that you will need to be walking a lot of things back. you should be ready to do that.
telling a black senator to apologize was where the shit hit the fan.
a candidate, remember, against whom he has signed a nonaggression pact.

and then to talk to him, and still not walk it back, oy gevalt.

i hope that joe is prepared to go down gracefully.

[SouthernProgressive]

32. The ones who should go down are those willfully and disingenuously using race.

That's not Biden.

Your "trump rally" comment is horrible. Really nasty.

[hedda_foil]

44. Look, you spend most of your time defending Biden. What's with the Warren tag?

[SouthernProgressive]

46. I plan on voting for her in the primary.

Isn't that what the choice is for? I thought it was understood.

[Indygram]

55. Glad to know that I'm not the only one around here who recognizes the real propblem

Keep in mind that I'm a lily white grandmother...and even I know that it's not about working with the other side or even mentioning working with racist goobers in the past that was the issue. Using "boy" in the way he did was not a whole lot better than if he had of used the n-word in the same place he used "boy." Cory Booker was 100% right in what he said that Biden should not need anyone to explain why what he said was wrong. What the bloody hell did Booker do that was wrong? Have the audacity to say, "hey...what you said...that's offensive and no one should have to explain why to you." It would have been one thing if he were actually quoting someone...but he wasn't. Unforced error. Again.

[Cha]

56. That's an ugly, shameful, gratuitous insult to members of

DU.

[MustLoveBeagles]

59. Yes it was

SMDH

[Cha]

60. Mahalo, MustLoveBeagles!

SMDH, too.

[MustLoveBeagles]

65. Maholo Cha

Constructive critism and vetting I can deal with. It's gone beyond that now and I'm sick and tired of it. The poo flinging by some (not all) of the posters has been triggering me all week. I'll look at Indygram's fish fry thread but after that I might have to take a break from this place for awhile.

[Cha]

66. Exactly, MLB.. The vile insults say more about

them than anything.

[MustLoveBeagles]

67. Yep

[mopinko]

61. i'm sorry, but the spinning and the bullying is just over the top.

ok, i'll step it down to the bernie bros, but it is just not coming from a place of honesty and reality.

if all this rhetorical energy was invested in warren, we would be half way home.
diversionary waste of energy.

[Cha]

62. There's no excuse for what you said.

[mopinko]

63. yet it obviously passed a jury.

no doubt it was alerted, but here it stands.
rejection of reality is just not acceptable.

[Cha]

64. Stop digging.

[delisen]

35. Biden's comment seems just not relevant to our current situation.

None of his defenders seem to be able to come up with examples of Democrats today not attempting to work with others in Congress.

Biden's "sensible statement" seems to be just not pertinent to our present circumstance. Dialogue and criticism are not necessarily attacks.

Possibly he needs to be more specific in describing what he sees as the current situation or perhaps he might use an example from whatever work he was doing with those in congress during his vice-presidency. Possibly he had some success with Mich McConnell that was not well publicized.

Prior to Biden and Eastland combining. forces to work together to end school busing asa means to achieve integration in our public schools, there was only one generation of students that had experienced busing.

In some cities the results were positive, with parents and students having positive experience.

[SouthernProgressive]

36. I don't see what I've done here as being in defense of Biden. I don't think he needs to be defended.

I'm simply highlighting the political or racist nature in which some are using race as a weapon. They are the ones who are highly suspect.

As for your point about working together, Biden has been repeatedly called "delusional" on DU for thinking he can.

[Gothmog]

37. Civil rights icon John Lewis backs Biden, says segregationist comments were not offensive

Link to tweet

[Demit]

40. Are you counting Kamala Harris & Cory Booker among the willfully disingenuous?

There is no room in your thinking that, as black people, they could possibly feel insulted by someone waxing nostalgic for a segregationist's "civility"? Are you really claiming that Harris's and Booker's feelings couldn't be genuine?

If you're going to ascribe a calculated political motive to their comments, then you have to allow for Biden having had a calculated political motive for his original comment as well. They're all politicians! Biden's not a well-meaning novice, new to the public eye. He's been around long enough to know that politicians should be careful with the words they choose to speak.

He's not a careful man in that regard, though, and his advisors well know that. There probably will be more incidents of having to come along after him and "explain" what he meant. It's going to be a long campaign.

[SouthernProgressive]

41. "Are you counting Kamala Harris & Cory Booker among the willfully disingenuous?"

I made that distinction in my op.

[Demit]

43. To me, you don't call someone's reaction to a hurtful event a "motive."

Edited to add: Actually, what you said is "People are using race to attack Biden in a willfully disingenuous manner. I understand a politicians motives to do so."

That most certainly does accuse Harris & Booker of using race in a willfully disingenuous manner. They are "doing so," according to what you wrote.

[SouthernProgressive]

45. What "hurtful" event? NT

[emmaverybo]

52. Using race this way is exploitive. NT

[emmaverybo]

54. THIS. Nt

[loyalsister]

58. It's about erasing people and their experiences

We learned during the Obama years that we have not come as far as we thought. Government institutions and US culture are every bit as hateful as ever. Trump didn't start this. It has been going in via casual subtle bigotry and explicit policies that were sold with racialized propaganda. While many eventually hurt as many or more white people as much as they did the people of color white people had a sense of superiority because they weren't the ones discussed in the news media.
That is white supremacy.

During all of this, unintended consequences were foreseeable and they were ignored.

Some people dismiss the damage done by the crime bill and welfare "reform" by bringing out "evidence" to support and argument that it started before the crime bill. Or prop up the VAWA as a shining piece of progress to justify it all.

Meanwhile real people have had family members spend time in prison for non violent crimes or sometimes other people's crimes.
Parents lost opportunities to spend time with their children due to welfare work requirements. They no longer had the opportunity to go to school or even training programs because they had to focus all of their energy on work.
Should they get a visit from a long lost family member who had had legal trouble, they could lose housing.

All of those consequences were possibilities that were known and dismissed as if winning was worth destroying lives. Collateral damage.

Michelle Alexander exposed much of it with a look at the numbers and the concrete results. We know that it is more than the usual suspects and malice propping up white supremacy. We know that systemic racism is real. We know that militarized police are directed towards people of color.

We know that young black men come of age with the knowledge that they have to be careful not to upset police or do anything that makes them the tiniest bit nervous. We know health outcomes are worse, that housing is segregated and educational opportunities are determined by zip codes.

I was less knowledge about those things for most of my life because I am protected by whiteness. I have learned is that I was looking away. Likewise, Biden and Kennedy met Eastland and looked away while they focused on their work. Then they even found common ground. Congress and the white citizens they represented watched Reagan embark on his anti-welfare campaign with racialized anecdotes about welfare queens without outrage or the kind of opposition people who were stigmatized deserved. The explicit propaganda and compromises of the time never stopped. In the 90s, the arguments for the devastating crime bill and welfare reform were again supported with the racialized propaganda and racially hostile sociological research.
The only real difference between then and now is that more is out in the open. Joe seems to have affection for the days when good people could look away and fulfill their duties without worrying about being criticized for rubbing shoulders with a white supremacist.

[aikoaiko]

68. I don't Joe was malicious, just clueless about his word choices.

On Juneteenth, no less.

And then to demand that Booker apologize to him for asking for an apology -- just weird.