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[peace13]

This message was self-deleted by its author (peace13) on Thu Feb 20, 2020, 09:23 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[notadmblnd]

1. I'm afraid that some here have deep seated emotional issues

they've yet to deal with.

[JDPriestly]

4. The issues are not emotional.

They are to do with the disparity of wealth and policy differences such as on trade, the financing of medical insurance and college tuition at state schools, fracking, the environment and so many, many other issues.

In 2008, Obama and Hillary differed relatively little on policy issues, and Obama went back on many of his promises like renegotiating NAFTA, etc.

Obama simply had a better personality than Hillary (still does) so he won.

But this time, Hillary will pick up some Bernie supporters, but not most of us.

Hillary is too close to Henry Kissinger for me. Check out his Wikipedia page. It's scary.

I will not vote for Hillary.

[notadmblnd]

5. I was talking about the people who want the Sanders group closed.

Not his supporters

[TexasBushwhacker]

16. Fuck them!

Why do they care? Hell, there's still an Al Gore group.

[VulgarPoet]

22. Kicking while down, grave-dancing, et cetera.

Y'know, all the charming, loving, hopeful asshattery they're known for.

[bunnies]

23. Be Careful!

I got a sarcastic post hidden last night for "Language".

[TexasBushwhacker]

24. Here in the Sanders group? n/t

[bunnies]

25. No, in LBN.

I was mocking how *some* like to blame sanders supporters for every death threat or act of violence that happens anywhere or anytime. I should have used the thing but didnt. Anyway, I said "Fucking Bernie supporters" with one of these I thought the sarcasm was obvious. The alert though, said only "Language".

My first hide ever. Meh.

[senz]

36. Innocent OPs are being hidden GD-P.

It's becoming routine for anything not flattering to Hillary.

[bunnies]

38. Ive noticed.

I think some are a little eager to begin the purge. *smh*

[rhett o rick]

48. They really don't want us here.

[840high]

51. All the time.

[MrMickeysMom]

55. Yep...

I've been on juries, cause I'm pretty careful with my fairness and snark. The stuff that's being hidden is spreading like a rash on a sweaty buttocks in July.

(yeah, I'm going for the visual)

[rhett o rick]

28. Those that want to close the Sanders Group want to for spite. They are not here

for the good of the Party or country but to self-righteously bully. It will be interesting after the 16th to see if they are allowed to continue.

[SwampG8r]

32. They will be allowed to.do what it takes to pull du right

This has become a board.for.conservative dems.
After the amnesty my eyes are open when you allow..no.. Encourage and reward the behaviours that the community says no to through juries there is an agenda.
This is a right leaning board for conservative democrats now.

[rhett o rick]

37. That alone wouldn't be so bad if they entered into honest discussions about issues.

But they can't discuss most progressive issues because they would reveal they are on the wrong side. Corporate Dems side with the Republicons on many issues. The Corporate Dems sided with Bush re. invading Iraq for Big Corporate profits.

[notadmblnd]

41. I think their mean, nastyness will still be tolerated.

[JDPriestly]

2. My hat is also off to Bernie Sanders.

He is organizing a movement.

DU may have declared that this contest is over, but it is not.

That is because it is about issues and not just about a person or a group of people.

In 2008, there was relatively little difference between Obama and Hillary and Obama had and has the more appealing personality.

This election season, there are huuuuuge ideological and policy differences between Hillary and Bernie. A lot of Hillary voters agree more with Bernie than with Hillary on the policy issues but somehow mistakenly think that Hillary has more experience. Some Hillary voters are voting for her because she is a woman.

I'm with Bernie.

[HereSince1628]

20. I hope there is. I haven't gotten any specific memos on that yet.

I hope I will. I really don't want to see this to be another progressive blip.

I have seen that Sanders is supporting and even assisting with fund-raising for down-ticket progressive candidates. That's certainly the big action arm for the movement's future. That's underway.

Because we are a voting minority and don't have the big money donor support, coordination and concentration of effort is important. We can't hit politics like a sledge hammer. But we can amplify our force by focusing effort, metaphorically realizing the advantage of putting the weight of an ax-head behind the razor edge of its blade.

We really will need some coordinating to be an effective movement and that takes some sort of convocation of leadership be it in one personality or many.

[bvar22]

39. That is up to us, not Bernie.

The Movement was strong before Bernie. He stepped in front, and was a good, legitimate, charismatic leader,
but the Movement WILL continue and GROW with or without Bernie as long as WE keep it alive.


[font color=firebrick size=3][center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone[/font][/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]

[HereSince1628]

42. I guess I never noticed a strong progressive movement before Bernie

There are many organizations that do things that fall within progressive interests, not many that I can think of that have mobilized 12 million people as an electoral force.

[bvar22]

43. Obama did in 2008 by pretending to be a Populist.

[font color=white]......[/font][font size=3]Obama's Army for “CHANGE”, Jan. 21, 2009[/font]

[font color=white].....................[/font][font size=4]"Oh, What could have been."[/font]


Now Bernie did in 2016, but he is a REAL Populist (Democratic Socialist)
Like I said before, it is up to us.
The MILLIONS who are hurting from the last 30 years of conservative NeoLiberal Policy will still be with us in 2020.

[HereSince1628]

44. Obama himself said he was a moderate republican by standards of his youth

and Obama's progressive supporters quickly dissolved as their disappoint grew with Obama being Obama.

I didn't see a progressive movement that organized and promoted Obama as a candidate for the nomination, voters simply chose to support and that included many people on the left who were taken in by words like 'change' which is after all the general motion progressives seek

[bvar22]

45. The admission that he was basically a Moderate Republican did NOT happen until his 2nd term.

What Candidate Obama campaigned on was:

*Raising Taxes on the RICH

*Lifting or Removing the CAP on Social Security

*A National Public Option robust enough to keep them (The Health Insurance Industry and Care Providers) honest

*Labeling food with country of origin and GMO contents

*Making EFCA (Card Check) the Law of the Land

*Renegotiating NAFTA to protect American jobs and the Environment

*Joining Strikers On-the-Line (comfortable shoes) wherever they were denied the right to collectively bargain.

*Protecting Whistle Blowers

*No Lobbyists in his administration

*Transparency, no "secret" deals

----of course, he did none of these things, but during the campaign, he did a good job of sounding like he was actually on our side, better than the alternative with a KNOWN track record.
Then he dumped us on Day One and did this,
[font size=3]
The DLC New Team
[/font]
(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

...and we knew it had all been a scam.

[HereSince1628]

46. I'm not sure why that date matters, he long knew where his political compass pointed

His promises were very empty. Wisconsin Labor learned that in a huuuge way when he refused to join scores of thousands who were in the very Marches for Labor Rights he promised during the campaign he'd join with his 'walking shoes'

Like all the New Dems his interest in labor flows in the opposite direction, and he knows the talk even though he wouldn't walk the walk.

[bvar22]

47. It matters because I stated that Obama was able to bring together many MILLIONS of Americans,

mostly Working/Middle Class who were tired of the betrayal of the Clinton/Centrist Democratic Party by promising Liberal "Change".
Bernie is NOT an anomaly. He stepped in front of a movement that existed before Bernie, and will exist after Bernie. Bernie is a charismatic leader and vocal proponent, but the Movement (that Obama dishonestly co-opted) existed BEFORE Bernie, and will continue after Bernie.

It was never about Bernie.
It is about us.
We will still be here, and hungry for real change after November.
The Natives (the Working Class & Poor) are restless, and very tired of being screwed by Republicans and conservative Democrats and our ranks are growing.

CHARTS: The Amazing Wealth Surge For The Top 0.1 Percent
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/the-amazing-wealth-surge-for-the-top-0-1-percent

Korean Free Trade Deal devastating for US Workers
(Prototype for the TPP)

What happened to the 70,000 jobs that the Korea Free Trade deal was supposed to create? They never materialized. Instead, U.S. workers lost 40,000 jobs in the first year of the agreement.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larry-cohen/koreaus-free-trade-agreem_b_4965492.html

Meet the TPP: Crony capitalism on a global scale
https://represent.us/action/tpp/

Obama selects former Monsanto lobbyist to be his TPP chief agriculture negotiator
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023662210

"Obama Admin’s TPP Trade Officials Received Hefty Bonuses From Big Banks"
http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/20/obama-admin%E2%80%99s-tpp-trade-officials-received-hefty-bonuses-from-big-banks/

Study: "Trade" Deal Would Mean a Pay Cut for 90% of U.S. Workers
http://citizen.typepad.com/eyesontrade/2013/09/the-verdict-is-in-the-trans-pacific-partnership-tpp-a-sweeping-free-trade-deal-under-negotiation-with-11-pacific-rim-coun.html

Retirement: A third have less than $1,000 put away
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2014/03/18/retirement-confidence-survey-savings/6432241/

95 percent of the economy’s gains have gone to the top 1 percent
http://billmoyers.com/2014/01/10/why-conservatives-old-divide-and-conquer-strategy-%E2%80%94-setting-working-class-against-the-poor-%E2%80%94-is-backfiring/

Billionaire wealth doubles since financial crisis
http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/11/12/Billionaire-wealth-doubles-since-financial-crisis/5011384268135/?spt=hts&or=12

The Top .01 Percent Reach New Heights
http://www.demos.org/blog/9/13/13/top-01-percent-reach-new-heights

Obama Appoints Bain Capital Consultant Jeff Ziets to Top Post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023662209

Obama appoints industry insider to head the FCC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024521140

The Totally Unfair And Bitterly Uneven 'Recovery,' In 12 Charts – HuffPo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023662029

Larry Summers Gets 'Full-Throated Defense' From Obama In Capitol Hill Meeting
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014553343#post1

Wall Street will get away with massive wave of criminality of 2008 - Statute of Limitations
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/business-economy-financial-crisis/untouchables/supreme-court-ruling-a-blow-for-future-financial-crisis-cases/

Income gap widest ever: 95 Percent of Recovery Income Gains Have Gone to the Top 1 Percent
http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2013/09/10/one_percent_recovery_95_percent_of_gains_have_gone_to_the_top_one_percent.html

Older Workers:.Set Back by Recession, and Shut Out of Rebound
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/27/booming/for-laid-off-older-workers-age-bias-is-pervasive.html?smid=tw-share&_r=3&

Right now, forty percent of Americans make less than the minimum wage from 1968.
http://pac.petitions.moveon.org/sign/raise-the-minimum-wage-19/?source=search


Daily CEO Pay Now Exceeds the Average Worker's Annual Salary –
http://thecontributor.com/daily-ceo-pay-now-exceeds-us-workers-annual-salary

New Rule (Passed by Congress and signed by President Obama) signals Kiss of Death for Pensions
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100694955

Wealthy win lion's share of major tax breaks
http://www.boston.com/business/news/2013/05/29/wealthy-win-lion-share-major-tax-breaks/Ua0UyYle21EUXub7g1suCI/story.html

Wealth gap widens as labor's share of income falls
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/wealth-gap-widens-labors-share-income-falls-1B6097385

Corporate Profits Hit Record High While Worker Wages Hit Record Low
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/03/1270541/corporate-profits-wages-record/?mobile=nc


Why do we need real change in the Democratic Party?
Because THIS ^ does NOT happen by accident.

[HereSince1628]

49. You had been talking about a movement. Obama didn't emerge from a movement or put one in place

he merely tapped in to a back-log of people's wants in the wake of 8 years of the Cheney administration.

I really don't think we can speak of the Obama campaign as a political movement. It was a great sales job

And Obama did it in a very cynical way... selling empty promises. They were pretty but they were pretty empty.

[jalan48]

3. Don't get too down.

We are going to have many "I told you so" moments in the future. It will be great fun watching her fans turn into pretzels trying to defend her corporate, hawkish policies.

[notadmblnd]

6. that's my plan. Hide and watch the wailing when it happens.

[GreenPartyVoter]

18. Yep

[Arazi]

21. They won't wail tho. They'll defend her to the bitter end. They do it with Bill now

[rhett o rick]

29. I agree with you. They have an amazing talent for rationalizations. I believe they

care about the poor and working poor but somehow rationalize that supporting corporations is necessary. It's like they have Stockholm Syndrome.

[notadmblnd]

50. When they and theirs get screwed three ways to Sunday

they'll wail and it's gonna happen.

[840high]

52. I think you are right.

[Ino]

7. It'll be years of...

"she's got this" and "3-dimensional chess" and "now she's got them where she wants them" and "keeping her powder dry" while the country is gutted.

[GreenPartyVoter]

19. Without a doubt!

[mindwalker_i]

9. Your definition of "fun" is a peculiar one

4 or 8 years of constant investigations and crap will be a pain. I don't know where this e-mail thing is going, but I suspect it will drag out for a long time, with little bits dribbling out over the course of years. Unfortunately, there seem to be some legitimate questions. About free trade, I'm not entirely sure what Hill would do but suspect it will suck. A lot. And people here will twist themselves defending it, telling us we want free stuff.

After this "election," most of the country will need therapy. After 4 years, it will likely be worse.

[jalan48]

11. Well-what's the alternative?

I don't want to spend another 4-8 years like I did when Ronald Reagan was President. Angry and pissed off all the time. I prefer to laugh at the folly of Hillary and work for local candidates who think like Bernie.

[mindwalker_i]

12. That would be preferable

Not sure how possible it will be.

[jalan48]

13. True-I find if I can laugh at the Hillary crowd I feel better.

Keep the faith.

[amborin]

26. even scarier is the neo con regime change and rush to war,

already gearing up to engage Putin with no fly zones, etc.

how many innocents have died in the ME and Latin America due to her
scary bad judgment or intentions?


http://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politics/100000004216623/hillary-clintons-legacy-in-libya.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/us/politics/hillary-clinton-libya.html?_r=0


Hillary Clinton and the Syrian Bloodbath

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-sachs/hillary-clinton-and-the-s_b_9231190.html

[peace13]

14. Thanks for this!

[senz]

35. With the MSM on her side, she could get away with it.

People will not be informed about what is happening. They won't know what is wrong.

We have "social media," but how long before a "Clinton Administration" goes after the internet? Expect it.

[Gore1FL]

54. I think "I told you so" moments are going to go against the "no criticism of dear leader" rule.

Or at least those who can't tolerate discussion of legitimate issues.

I've lost count of "you have until the 16th" posts I've seen. It's sad. I used to make fun of the right for doing the same things I see happening here.

[valerief]

8. To those Bernie naysayers, just remember: The last time America elected a Dem Socialist, he was so

popular they had to invent term limits.

Read that on Jimmy Dore's Twitter page.

[Doctor_J]

10. the only thing they have thought about the entire time has been hillary

they do not even consider the country's desperate need for healthcare, living wage, affordable education, and deep cuts to our ridiculous military involvement. and should she make it to the White House, every disastrous collaboration with ryan to pay off her benefactors in the owning class will be applauded.

simplest solution: treat them like the conservative republicans they are

[QC]

15. These are people who approach politics the way drunken fans

approach football.

They want to spike the ball and dance in the end zone and call the other team names.

As for trying to use power to make people's lives better, well, that's for geeks and dorkwads.

And yes, in reply to the first post, I think there's a lot of, um, personal issues involved as well.

[840high]

53. It's a cult mentality.

[peace13]

17. Thanks to all for sharing.

I appreciate your comments. : )

[pengu]

27. They're hiding like mad this week

They can't even wait until next week. I thought I had this week to "get it out of my system". LOL.

This place will be pure party propaganda by next week.

[rhett o rick]

33. If they wanted a progressive free DU they could have stayed in the Hillary Group but they

found it boring not to be able to alert, lock, hide and ban. They control the juries, the Host Forum and MIRT. And they have the Admins supporting them.

[pengu]

40. Yep, that's why I'm gone from here very shortly

[riderinthestorm]

30. It's getting hard to check in here every day. JPR has become my internet "home" now

I never did find the format there to be a problem honestly but kept posting here mostly out of habit. Once that habit's broken though, I've lost interest in even trying to have a conversation with HRC supporters, especially here.

They're acting badly. I don't need that. I'd rather focus on building a positive new movement.

Honestly spending less time online would probably be healthier for all of us. There's great satisfaction in helping down ticket Bernie candidates or getting involved with your local environmental group.

[rhett o rick]

31. We can not be discouraged. We have succeeded far beyond my wildest dreams.

We have rallied millions of Americans to the side of honesty and have exposed the culture of corruption that controls our government. We've also exposed the minions in our Party that carry water for the Big Powerful Corporations. Seems like they get a charge out of being on the side with the Big Money Power.

I suggest, and I will try to accomplish this myself, is not to interact with the other side. It's like wrestling pigs in mud, they love it and you only get dirty.

I suggest we choose either this Group or the Populist Reform Group and discuss issues, monitor the progress of Hillary's promises, and build a plan for continuing the Populist Movement.

I have not given up hope for Sanders at the convention. It's not over until it's over, but we need to think about contingency plans should he lose the nomination.

[senz]

34. News of Clinton Foundation corruption is about to be hidden.

It's legitimate news. There was a previous hide. It's on LBN.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141484055