Bernie Sanders
Related: About this forumBernie's biggest problem when it comes to race issues, as told by an article in the Nation magazine
http://www.thenation.com/article/bernies-greatest-weakness/
I'm definitely a Bernie supporter but I am a bit frustrated with Bernie's inflexibility when it comes to this.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Exit polling showed that voters generally had no clue who he was or what he stood for.
Clinton won the votes of those who cared most about honesty and trustworthiness. Since no serious inspection of the candidates' record results in that conclusion, we can conclude some things from that right away.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)(No I won't link it and justify the alert)
Feel free to refute it, if you can. It's hard to argue with exit polling data though.
Oh yeah, and kick.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)who stayed home with the kids. Yeah, kick that old guy in the pants for that. Anybody who thinks he doesn't have the interests of the underclass, I don't care which demographic or sex they belong to, is stupid. They might as well go ahead and vote against their own best interests like usual because some clever publicist planted words that would create a wedge issue about this in their uncritical minds.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Anyone here who knows me knows that I'm a solid Bernie supporter, so I really do want Bernie to succeed, but if Bernie is going to win he has to get the minority vote. Inflexibility is not always a good thing. Bernie can't afford to sound like a white person out of touch with black issues or black people, or a white person that's just pretending to care about black people in order to get their vote. Again, his image of an old white man doesn't help him in getting black voters to hear him out.
bernbabe
(370 posts)He is constantly referring specifically to people of color, women, etc., not just economic class in general.
The man grew up in Brooklyn, went to college in Chicago, then worked in NYC, then moved to Vermont at age 27. He has not spent his entire life away from minorities. He has fought for racial justice for over 5 decades. Anyone who did the slightest bit of research of the candidates before they voted would know this. If people choose to be ignorant there is not much you can do.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Bernie still tries to say that race specific issues are a part of the overall economic issue, and many minorities may not buy that.
bernbabe
(370 posts)I think he's right. A lot of the time the problem is not black, brown, white... it's green.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Or at least you have to do more convincing to them that it is about the green.
Seems to me a lot of blacks didn't buy the idea that Bernie would care about black people now the same way that he did back in 1962, and that he had been fighting for black people in the time since.
Also, I did venture into the Hillary Group, found an article posted by Bravenak, and did see this in an article posted that said somethings that I do believe highlights this problem:
First of all, poor people don't vote much. The higher the class level that someone is in, the more likely it is that they vote. Thus, blacks that are not poor would be offended by Bernie talking primarily about mass incarceration and poverty when talking to blacks. I would've preferred that Bernie also talk about how devastating recessions hurt black people and hispanics more than everyone else, how they make jobs evaporate, and how trade deals hurt them.
Another thing is that the declining middle class speech that Bernie gives only applies to white people, because blacks and hispanics have been more wealthy within the past 15 years than at any time before, and were the wealthiest just before the 2008 crash.
bernbabe
(370 posts)is watch some of the many youtube videos of Bernie railing against racial injustice, covering quite a time span. The man has walked the walk. I don't know how he could have done much more. The Clintons have gone to black churches in the south and gladhanded their way to the favor of black people. They have talked the talk but stabbed minorities in the back with some of their actions. It's really ridiculous.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)Pandering Queen.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Instead of dismissing racism for one as another part of the general economic message.
jillan
(39,451 posts)Crack a joke about the governor or a hot topic for that state. Something.
But if I was advising him I would tell him to spend an entire day in a state rather than bouncing around. Maybe do a couple of rallies but grab a cup a coffee at the local diner and get to know the people. Get out on Main Street and meet the people. That way he could hear what people have to say of all races, economic status and gender.
I say all this only because I believe in his message and I want him to win.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Jobs and all that. Bernie is right in line with MLK.
SC had 12% Dem turnout. That means a very few, old guard voters turned out.
I used to get TV news from SC. The news about the election was 90% republicans, 9% Hillary and 1% about that white socialist yankee. Ya think that made a difference?
Rebkeh
(2,450 posts)It's his supporters that bother me more.
It's way past my bed time or I'd give an in depth explanation.
I'll go deeper tomorrow, I'm sleepy and would be incoherent probably, if I explained now
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Thus it seems that the black community would not be all that receptive to a generic message.
Rebkeh
(2,450 posts)Last edited Mon Feb 29, 2016, 04:45 PM - Edit history (1)
He has earned it, or should have by now. Just not in the ways we have come to expect.
I don't have a problem with the way he deals with race or the way he reaches out to me, as a black woman. I think his message is not fully understood and that's mostly on us (his supporters).
Quoting the Nation article from the OP:
Its not that he doesnt connect the dots, the two being linked. Its that he doesnt make a distinction. I understand this because I understand his spiritual world view it may be too much forest for the trees forsaking the connection of dots, but I am perfectly fine with it. Explaining the forest does not fit into a bullet point, least of all a talking point for pundits or a bumper sticker for a laptop. It overlaps with the spiritual in some ways and that is just too messy to get into in the middle of a campaign. Policies aside, and he is directly responsive no doubt, the other half of the Venn diagram appears to be left hanging. But is it?
The issue is an imbalance of power, ultimately. All inequalities share the same foundation and the one thing that empowers people politically is money leading to income leading to leveling the playing field leading to social justice. Its all one messy problem and as a people, we lack the collectivistic instinct to see that. I get more frustrated with supporters not selling it because he has enough to do. I guess I should do better in this regard. I tried with a few posts but could do better, I admit (see my DU journals).
The connection between the dots is this: The idea that one cannot have any (or more) power unless another has no (or less) power is what drives inequality. The idea that less for you means more for me is what drives every form of inequality. This is why he runs the Together ads, he is getting to the larger picture. Maybe its too meta for most people but thats where we come in, we have to expand and explain. We have to change the way we think. Otherwise we just keep right on doing what we have always done and nothing changes. Power is shared collectively.
I wish his team would have made the ads more than just inclusive but with sensitivity to the threat of invisibility we poc face. Unity has to embrace our differences, not erase them. But again, thats on the rest of us. Black folks gotta explain (Yes, I know. We have been, for far too long) and white folks got to listen.
He is running for political office and uses political language money. Which means inequality takes on an economic message. Its more than just the linkage of the economic and social, its literally the same problem. He cannot explain this problem as a footnote in a speech, it requires getting too deep in the weeds. So, no, it's not generic. It's just subtle.
And while I have your attention on the other points in the article.
This here:
drives me nuts. How blind can we be, America? Come on. Its a clear pattern: members of various groups love him while the people up top in the group dont. Are we a democracy or not? Why are we accepting this? I blame the public, actually.
We have been conditioned and expect to be pandered to, which I personally cannot stand. Pandering. Ugh If someone wants to represent me, they better bring substance, and the more authentic they are, the more they have my attention. I dont need my President to be pretty or cool. Pandering, for me, counts against a leader, but sadly it works too well. Thats part of the problem, we want slick salespeople or charismatic cool. (We also want a president that will slice and dice opponents, which is another problem. One for a different post at another time.)
Bernie has his own brand of charisma, an endearingly rumpled grandfather. Its not going to work for everyone, obviously, but we have to be willing to let our leaders be who they are while simultaneously able to see their vision for us. We have gotten used to Bill Clinton and President Obama, a smooth operator and The. Coolest. President. Ever. But lets be honest here, we know that charisma doesnt necessarily translate to great leadership see Ronald Reagan. I am tired of the game and Bernie is a breath of fresh air, he isnt that popular guy on campus. He is a nerd, ultimately. He is more an academic than a football star, or lead singer. He is not going to effectively woo people because thats just not who he is. It is on us to sell his message to the fickle public, not him.
Bottom line - he brings substance to the table, which is what a leader does. It is what a leader is supposed to do. If a leader brings substance, Im in - thats all I need.
That said, Bernie is quick on his feet when he has to be, but he isnt going to twist himself into a pretzel trying to be many different things to many different people nor should he. One thing that consistently inspires me is that he still, even after all this time in Vermont, has not lost his gloriously authentic accent. This suggests that on some level, he is not the kind of guy that changes on a whim. He is flexible enough to bend with the wind but he is not going to be pushed around either. Hes been around for a while, he isnt new to politics by any stretch. That means hes also older than the past few presidents.
A lot of people cite this strength as a weakness:
Oh, come on. Really? All this does is indicate his age, not his mind-set. He is not a savior, he will be a President. Besides, if millennials dont have a problem with it, why on earth should anyone else? The politics of intersectionality is on us, not him. Its pretty clear what he means when he speaks of equality, despite saying it like a grandfather does. He is walking the talk, so much that we dont see it. Besides, I dont expect him to worry much about the optics of politics of intersectionality because, after all, he is literally trying to lead us to save a country as an intersectional collective.
draa
(975 posts)The problem is he's had 9 months for the Democratic electorate to get to know him. 9 months. That's not much time in Presidential politics. If he'd been a Democrat his entire career he might have a little easier time, but even so, he was completely unknown by all but the most politically aware just 9 months ago. It was always going to be a race against time.
The lies coming from the Clinton camp don't help. Studies have shown that negative attacks work. Since Bernie's not willing to attack she's calling the shots right now. I think her FBI investigation should be front and center. That might change the dynamic a bit and hopefully it will brought out by Bernie soon.
One thing I do know though. I shouldn't be asked to shield people in our party from a possible Republican win if Clinton's the nominee. Not when they choose to support Clinton willingly. If they want her to win then they can get it done without my help.
I support their right to pick Clinton, and served this country to back up my support, but that doesn't mean I have to compromise my principles for anyone. Least of all Hillary Clinton or the liars who protect her.