This is REALLY pissing me off

[TorchTheWitch]

Awhile ago a poster here was blocked from the group for making obnoxious gender slurs in a post including the c-word. Her post was hidden, but does anyone know if TOS was checked when it was alerted on so that it would go to Admins? People have been banned from DU for using this gross gender slur, and as far as I can recall, the post in question was made very soon after a long time poster got the deserved boot from DU for using it.

So far the poster I'm referring to has not been banned, and I REALLY want to know why. They absolutely should be. There is NO QUESTION that if they had said n****r or f***t they'd be banned on the spot... no dilly-dallying about pondering whether or not it was bigoted enough to ban the poster. But as of this writing the poster is still on Active status.

If TOS wasn't checked when the post was alerted on then of course Admin wouldn't know anything about it. But if it was checked I want to know why the hell this poster is still here. Does anyone know how one goes about contacting Admins to find out what is going on here? There is NO WAY in hell that this should slide.

Dammit, why are we not taking a collective stand on the outright female bigotry on DU that is and has been consistantly tolerated where no other group has had to deal with this shit with the possible acception of police officers (and Repubs, but they aren't allowed on DU anyway)?

[madaboutharry]

1. I was on a jury where someone

used the c word and the jury voted to leave it. Go figure.

[seabeyond]

2. i alerted. tos was checked. the day, or day after long term kicked off for use of word

Last edited Sun Nov 4, 2012, 11:57 AM - Edit history (1)

he came into this forum, where he knew it would be most poorly received, used two sexist slurs and felt little to no repercussion.

administration made a stand with one poster.

this poster challenged the administrations stand.

so it is not only a violation with misogyny, but to the authority of the administration.

(looking at it from a parents perspective handling a two year olds tantrum)

[TorchTheWitch]

19. are we talking about the same poster?

I know that one long time poster whose name began with a "p" was banned from DU for using that slur, but the one I'm talking about is still an active member. If the still active member who used the slur had their post alerted on with the TOS checked then it would have gone to Admin, and if Admin isn't willing to ban them from the site but is for someone else for doing the same thing that something is wrong about whatever their stand is.

[seabeyond]

20. i alerted on both in this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125512345#post12

i hit tos in both alerts. both went to mirt, but mirt cannot do a long time poster and it is kicked to administration.

i would have thought it would be a given with the poster challenging administration the way he did. i know i would not have dared to challenge it so blatantly by coming into this forum, this protected group and using the most offensive misogynist slur right after another long term poster had just been tos'ed for doing the same.

gutsy.

[TorchTheWitch]

26. ok, thanks

I just wanted to make sure.

[MadrasT]

3. I am about fucking sick of people

especially men, tellling women that word isn't misogynistic.

There are also a few people who badly need to be PPRd for defending it.

Their misogyny is blatant and they revel in it.

[seabeyond]

4. what those threads in meta concluded for us, with a small group of people, is....

the do not believe sexism/misogyny exists.

they may recognize that equal rights still need to be worked on. that would be woman rights. but they do not equate or connect that to misogyny. they insist and demand that they are just words, unlike homophobic and racist comments that effect a whole, only words that effect individual women. the reason they see it as only individual in abuse, is they deny there is any such thing as sexisim.

[boston bean]

10. Being an advocate and supporter for equal rights does not make someone a feminist.

It makes them an advocate and supporter of equal rights. Thank you to them, but none the less it does not a feminist make.

They can't seem to grasp this very simple concept.

[seabeyond]

11. point on. you are exactly correct. because a person is clever enough to recognize equal rights,

does not mean the oppose sexism. especially when they cannot even see it exists.

[boston bean]

15. The fight for equal rights exists in the legislative world.

Issues that also concern feminists are the societal constructs and an unfairness that women experience, due to one's views based on a persons sex. Views that are ingrained in society and will take some work to change socially, not legislatively.

Sure, they say they can see a disparity when it comes to equal pay and choice, but that's about it.

They can't seem to jump the intellectual barrier to see other social disparities.

[ismnotwasm]

5. There is a strong group of people

Who fight for their entitlement to call women whatever they like. Their point is that all words are equal, offensive or not and they should be allowed to use them to express themselves.

As you point out, the interesting thing is that most--not all--but most, of these people wouldn't use racial slurs on an internet board. More of them-but still not most--WOULD use homophobic slurs.

Gendered slurs are so internalized as 'normal' that the blame of offense placed on the recipient or the offended. Even fairly benign ones are taken as knowledge or folk wisdom, i.e.. 'prostitution is the oldest profession' I actually had a poster tell me it was the oldest DOCUMENTED profession. Or the 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned' which is not offensive but it is bullshit. (and misquoted)Lots of silly stuff like that, no one thinks twice about, female or male.

The gendered freight of our language simply accepted as normal, 'blue' words thought to be a free speech issue, which it actually is, but we're stuck in a vicious cycle here.

What happens is when women get pissed off enough to go on the offense, they are usually the ones who get banned, get posts locked, and/or ridiculed until they leave. Or stalked from thread to thread.

Many feminists have simply walked. I nearly did myself.


There has been multiple arguments on Meta about this. Arguing there is practically useless, although entertaining at times. The only thing I can think of is to contact the administrator.

[seabeyond]

6. you are point on.

every. point. you. make. you are right on.

[boston bean]

7. I have come to the conclusion they don't believe women are oppressed group.

They just don't believe it.

Strange stance for a progressive/democratic board, but there you have it.

They do NOT believe women are discriminated against due to their sex.

They believe all is equal.

So, no word, or more importantly the intent behind the usage of the word, could possibly be sexist or misogynistic.

[seabeyond]

8. lol, they made it clear on the last rounds of discussions, huh?

that is really what it all boils down to and why they will claim racist and homophobic slurs are bad, yet sexist slurs are acceptable. literally, ..... ok.

you are right on. i finally see the light and understand how, in their brains, they can puzzle this one out.

but, the last rounds of discussion, they finally articulated it as a group, to there is no sexism, so there can be no sexist slur.

yes.

[seabeyond]

9. and you took it one step further, .... oppression. they do not believe there is oppression. nt

[MadrasT]

12. Right on the money. n/t

[ismnotwasm]

17. They don't understand what entitlement is.

Or how it affects gender. Since many women don't understand either, they can always go to wife, girlfriend, Mom, whatever for backup.

[MadrasT]

13. "Nearly walked"

I am right there. I put a bunch of 'em on ignore at least until we get through the election. Along with trashing a certain group where the hate is concentrated. I have had it with their bullshit posts that are ALL NOISE and no SIGNAL.

We are so swimming in gender discrimination that people do not even see it and it makes me physically ill.

[boston bean]

14. Every once and a while I skim the posts

Mostly, what I see is a place that is used to mock feminists. It's a hive of hatred of feminism.

Can you imagine a group existing on DU that allowed the mocking of civil rights?

But hey, feminism is up for grabs and a totally legitimate target to criticize on DU, right?

[MadrasT]

16. It is appalling. "Hive hatred" indeed.

Over the years, every once in a while I would see someone write that they were adamantly opposed to having a men's group on DU. I never understood why until now.

[TorchTheWitch]

21. How does one contact the Admin?

Hell, I can't even find the TOS or CS explainations anymore on this site. The problem here as I see it is that this is a probem with the Admin. They aren't treating bigotry against women the same way as they treat other bigotry on DU. And it can't be claimed that they just don't know or don't understand because they DO. We had this argument about the b-word on DU years ago and they finally did recognize that it was a gender slur that was unacceptable on DU, and for a few years these slurs were included as part of the examples of bigotry that were not allowed on DU and mods consistantly deleted posts that used them. Yet now with DU3 we're back again to people using such slurs and getting away with it even though bigotry is listed in the TOS as a bannable offense. So the question is why are people not being banned for using them or some people are but others aren't???

In the case of the poster in question that I brought up in this thread if Admin has just been too busy because of the election bein around the corner and the recent storm and they'll deal with it later than ok. But if they just aren't doing anything about it after being alerted to it why is that when just the day or two before a long time poster got banned for it? And I still really don't know if they knew about it at all since I have no idea who made the alert and whether or not TOS was checked.

[ismnotwasm]

22. Email Skinner

I'm not saying it will do any good, this scenario has played out over and over again. I'm not sure what the deal is with DU3 and the jury system, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. I somehow thought the new system was less expensive to run, which is why they went with it.


DU is Microcosm of the Internet, at least it's moderated. Now that anybody and their dog can post all kinds of hate via various social media, I believe it's clearer there's a huge problem with all the negative isms-- racism, sexism etc. homophobia is rampant as well. There is a lot of pushback on this type of shit, just not enough.

Now that people can make their opinion visible, they to often use it to look like a total little Asswipe. As well as a dumbass. And they seem to think their opinion counts. Well it doesn't. But you get enough of them together you have a reflection of a very ugly side of society---dog pack type behavior. Or pig pile-- whatever you want to call it. Bullying. It's always existed here. And there are some posters I'm convinced, had serious personality disorders (who are no longer with us thank god) who were some of the worst offenders.


Here, but we obviously have our share. I don't know why one was banned and another was not, unless it has to do with posting history.

[TorchTheWitch]

24. Do you know where I can find his email address?

I don't even know where to start.

[seabeyond]

28. here you go.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=contact

[Texasgal]

18. Tos was checked

Admins were alerted and they did nothing. Again.

It's just amazing to me that people think that using bigoted words is okay.

[seabeyond]

23. i will throw out a guess. but, it is just a guess. it would be nice if someone would communicate

with us the reasoning.

my guess is the poster that was kicked off du, his post was allowed to stand by jury. so in the administration mind, the system did not work. their next step for the system is duers challenging the poster, convincing the poster to edit or delete an offensive post. duers challenged the poster and the poster "double downed" on his offensive post justifying and refusing to edit or delete.

this poster you are referring to had the post hidden. so my thinking is that administration feels the system worked and did what ti was suppose to. like a hidden post is any kind of repercussion for purposeful misogyny.

this is just a guess. but, i am thinking this may be the reasoning behind the administration.

[TorchTheWitch]

25. That's what I want to know

The first time someone used that word here Skinner wrote a long post about why he decided not to ban the person... he excused it because apparently the person had some personal issue that made them really angry (not that that's an excuse).

Like I said, if they just haven't gotten around to it, fine. I get it that since the alert we've only been days away from the election and there was the hurricane to contend with also. However, if the decision was made to not ban the person and nothing was said about it, that's a huge issue. Granted the jury system has absolutely no consistancy whatsoever, but Admins have no reason to not be consistant.

[seabeyond]

27. i remember that conversation. and i remember many women concerned that there would be a consistency

with that particular sexist slur. and from my memory, i felt a little assurance from skinner that the word was unacceptable on du and that was one occurrence that was allowing it to stand, because of the particular issues in that instance.

and i agree. with your conclusion.