Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 06:43 PM Dec 2015

Florida Squeeze: A serious view of what Democrats face in 2016. Won't be easy.

We are seeing a different kind of progressive movement that's not easy to define. It's about Bernie Sanders, but that's only a part.

We're not going to be seeing much (or any) of Bernie in Florida. Can't blame him for that. All the state Democratic leadership appears to be on board with Hillary.

I am noticing though that there have been some well attended local events for Bernie.

Other than that he's hardly mentioned in our local media.

Democrats facing a potentially difficult 2016 with movement progressives

The data breach was by most standards a relatively minor happening that would have simply had a reaction limited to political insiders, data nerds and political press – had the DNC not bungled it so badly from a public relations standpoint. The DNC’s action inflamed non-political people who are backing Bernie Sanders and tend to see political parties as cartels that do not believe in the normal processes of Democracy.

Whether or not this is fair, a large segment of voters the party depends on feels the deck is stacked against the candidates they favor like Senator Sanders who articulate the views they live by. These are what I call “movement progressives.” They are motivated by issues particularly economic ones and are not comfortable with the Wall Street ties of the Obama Administration and the Clinton campaign.

Those connected closely to politics support Secretary Clinton, like they did her husband because of the political benefit – Democratic administration and the potential for patronage jobs or consulting contracts.

....Political types like to use fear to motivate the Democratic base. Paraphrasing here but basically they say “If you don’t support this Democrat, you’ll get a much worse Republican who is a racist that will destroy reproductive rights, push religion, hand everyone guns and ban minorities from advancing in our society before deporting anyone with a foreign sounding name.” These fear tactics have long worked as movement progressives felt they needed to play defense and support the lesser of two evils. Closing ranks eventually happens as a worse alternative looms, and the Democratic establishment knows that. However now many progressives are reaching a wits end, meaning the trick may not work this year for the party.


There is a truly good comment in the comments section of the article. It was written by a Florida Democrat I learned to respect very much during the 2004 campaign.

From the comments

(The link to the comment doesn't seem to go straight to the comment I mentioned. I am speaking of the one by David Jones.)

As a lifelong Democrat, I find it appalling that the DNC and the FDP could not find it within themselves to facilitate an even playing field during this election cycle. The chosen line-up of speakers at Leadership Blue and the FDP convention, the limited debate schedule, and both the FDP Chair and Vice Chair signing on as official members of Hillary Clinton’s Florida Campaign Team has sent a loud and clear message that those candidates who subscribe to the traditional progressive policies that provided social mobility during our nations hey day, are no longer worthy of having their voices heard through official channels of the Democratic party. In doing so, the party leadership has slammed the door in the face of countless young idealists and very well may have mortgaged the future of our party in favor of a less than honorable process designed to advance a watered down political agenda that helps far fewer people than is needed at this juncture in our history.


Way to go, David. A big hand of
64 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Florida Squeeze: A serious view of what Democrats face in 2016. Won't be easy. (Original Post) madfloridian Dec 2015 OP
R&K nt abakan Dec 2015 #1
Have you reached your "wits end"? MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #2
I think you know perfectly well my post is about far more than that. madfloridian Dec 2015 #7
I haven't a clue. MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #14
So, no answer, eh? MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #25
Isnt this just another "if we dont get what we want we might pout and walk" randys1 Dec 2015 #8
No, I have NEVER said what I might do because I don't know what that is yet. madfloridian Dec 2015 #10
I criticized DWS over the data breach almost before anyone else here, and I was blocked by randys1 Dec 2015 #13
Or you can look at it this way madfloridian Dec 2015 #15
Or "Leon is getting larger" randys1 Dec 2015 #17
Well, you certainly won the internet today! zappaman Dec 2015 #22
For some insane reason that scene sticks out for me, always has randys1 Dec 2015 #24
I agree, and thank you!! I couldn't figure out what Randy was talking about. MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #31
LOUDER. Indydem Dec 2015 #38
"Powerless minority as ever." daleanime Dec 2015 #42
That's why I asked. MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #12
DU Rec. Hiraeth Dec 2015 #3
What if floriduck Dec 2015 #4
No it's not. MoonRiver Dec 2015 #29
Way to dig in for your candidate. floriduck Dec 2015 #33
I don't think there are "countless" unhappy young people. MoonRiver Dec 2015 #51
You don't know too many young people, then. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #56
Already getting your excuses lined up? bvar22 Dec 2015 #61
SO..if you don't need anyone on the left.... madfloridian Dec 2015 #44
They are leaving tazkcmo Dec 2015 #36
Who says that is a bad thing? Indydem Dec 2015 #39
good grief. your second to last sentence hopemountain Dec 2015 #43
"crucify you and call you a republican" Kermitt Gribble Dec 2015 #53
I support all of those things. Indydem Dec 2015 #57
Little Debbie is probably having a mind-orgasm over this news. She about as democratic as ... BlueJazz Dec 2015 #5
Bra-vo! farleftlib Dec 2015 #6
So does this mean if she is the nominee you wont vote for her? randys1 Dec 2015 #9
Where did I say that? farleftlib Dec 2015 #11
What is it with you and loyalty oaths? Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #18
MY loyalty is to the Women and minorities and Gay folks who might actually DIE if the randys1 Dec 2015 #19
That's wonderful Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #21
Where did I EVER ask for a loyalty oath? I merely ask the question if you are or are not randys1 Dec 2015 #23
Doesn't bother me. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #59
For the 234th time, I am a Bernie supporter (unless 538 proves to me Hillary has a better chance) randys1 Dec 2015 #62
Loyalty oath or, lately, tiger trap. Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #28
They are dying now - along with drone-strike victims, people still w/o health care bread_and_roses Dec 2015 #35
your first bolded part is particularly telling, especially since we have an actual alternative Doctor_J Dec 2015 #16
Yes, that's important about coattails for down ticket races. madfloridian Dec 2015 #47
Like the Republicans... emsimon33 Dec 2015 #20
But then the question comes up: sadoldgirl Dec 2015 #26
You are today's winner! n/t tazkcmo Dec 2015 #37
BIG K&R bvar22 Dec 2015 #27
Me, too, bvar22. madfloridian Dec 2015 #48
Kick !! FloriTexan Dec 2015 #30
Yep Movement Progressive sonofspy777 Dec 2015 #32
Hillary's Headquarters... gordyfl Dec 2015 #34
K & R mountain grammy Dec 2015 #40
Thanks. madfloridian Dec 2015 #46
The little idealists need to grow up and get that Gloria Dec 2015 #41
"the little idealists need to grow up"....I am proud to be an idealist. madfloridian Dec 2015 #45
"little idealists?" Fawke Em Dec 2015 #60
Is there anybody who thinks beyond the Siren Song? bvar22 Dec 2015 #63
I'd share a little weed with you, but it would be a waste. Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #64
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Dec 2015 #49
Very good and truthfully written. mmonk Dec 2015 #50
the state party CHAIR and VICE CHAIR both are official HRC campaign members nashville_brook Dec 2015 #52
Actually most of the FL Dem party leaders are her supporters. madfloridian Dec 2015 #54
"the party leadership has slammed the door in the face of countless young idealists" madfloridian Dec 2015 #55
I can honestly say I'm a liberal Democrat at my wit's end. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #58
 

MeNMyVolt

(1,095 posts)
2. Have you reached your "wits end"?
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 06:51 PM
Dec 2015

Do you consider encouraging others to vote for the Democratic nominee a "trick"?

randys1

(16,286 posts)
13. I criticized DWS over the data breach almost before anyone else here, and I was blocked by
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:04 PM
Dec 2015

the HIllary group for doing it after being blocked by the Bernie group for INSISTING on NOT using DemocRAT...

What she did harmed both candidates.

Not unlike what folks here at DU do all day long.

Way more from Bernie supporters, but the never ending bashing of Hillary has turned some Hillary supporters into equal opportunity bashers.

It was inevitable.

The harm we are doing to ourselves is childish.

daleanime

(17,796 posts)
42. "Powerless minority as ever."
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 09:44 PM
Dec 2015

Cool, that means my conscious is free no matter what I decide. Thanks I appreciate that.

 

floriduck

(2,262 posts)
4. What if
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 06:54 PM
Dec 2015

the "countless young idealists" and anti-
Third Wayers left the party over the way the DNC and DWS have conducted themselves? It is worth some serious thought as to the damage this country would experience.

MoonRiver

(36,926 posts)
51. I don't think there are "countless" unhappy young people.
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 11:10 AM
Dec 2015

Most people will happily continue on with their lives after Hillary is elected, and does everything in her power to promote her progressive agenda.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
56. You don't know too many young people, then.
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 03:55 PM
Dec 2015

Yes - they are VERY unhappy and so are their parents.

They spend thousands to attend college, go in debt and can't find a decent paying job in their chosen profession. Their parents can't retire and are usually stuck with having to help their adult children.

Yes. We're VERY unhappy.

Also, if she's elected there will be very little "progressive" in her agenda. On social issues, I guess, provided she's evolved enough, but her foreign policy is that of a neocon and her economic policy is status quo for millionaires and billionaires.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
61. Already getting your excuses lined up?
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 05:18 PM
Dec 2015

Aren't you listing your scapegoats a little early this campaign?

tazkcmo

(7,306 posts)
36. They are leaving
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:59 PM
Dec 2015

And the young folks aren't joining. Neither "major" party is really major. Both have 30% each of registered voters while registered independents are 40% of the registered public.

Judging by some of the responses to your OP, that's fine with some here.

 

Indydem

(2,642 posts)
39. Who says that is a bad thing?
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 09:15 PM
Dec 2015

If the far-left, socialist, anti-capitalists would get out of my party, do you understand what could happen for America?

Do you know how many young republicans hate the way their party treats homosexuals, immigrants, refugees, and the poor - but cannot fathom becoming Democrats because of these same leftists?

If you are a social liberal and a fiscal conservative, there is no place for you in the Bernie Sanders version of the Democratic Party. Even if you support many social programs and have liberal values, if you don't want to burn capitalism to the ground, the Bernouts are going to crucify you and call you a republican.

Trust me. I know.

hopemountain

(3,919 posts)
43. good grief. your second to last sentence
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 09:47 PM
Dec 2015

contradicts itself and makes no sense.
the spin is incomprehensible - almost like rovian smoke and mirrors. no, i take that back. it is exactly a rovian smoke and mirrors statement.

the wiley coyote is out wiley-ing it's own self.

Kermitt Gribble

(1,855 posts)
53. "crucify you and call you a republican"
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 11:35 AM
Dec 2015

If it walks like a duck...

You basically admit that you're a republican that supports social equality. And the Democratic Party certainly is not "your party". For 80 years the Democratic Party has stood on the successes of the New Deal and The Great Society, along with Union representation - if you don't support these things, maybe you should concentrate on fixing the republican party.

 

Indydem

(2,642 posts)
57. I support all of those things.
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 03:56 PM
Dec 2015

I support the New Deal as implemented. I don't support the NIRA, but the NLRA replaced it and was superior. But I don't think the New Deal is what you think it is. It is not fiscally liberal. It is not socialism. It is not left-wing. What is contained in the New Deal are social compacts, not Socialism.

I support the Great Society plan, as it was enacted. The first part of the GS was a major tax cut on the top bracket and business - something no one would considered fiscally liberal. As for the additional social compacts introduced in the GS, while they provide assistance in many different ways, they are funded through flat payroll taxes paid for by all Americans who work, not through a progressive income tax, which is a redistribution system.

As for private sector Unions, you will not find a stronger supporter than myself. I have, and always will, attempt to purchase Union made goods whenever possible. Unlike many on the DU, I have always driven domestic made, union automobiles and advocated that others do the same. The right to organize through a secret ballot election is a fundamental human right. Even FDR (that guy everyone wants to say they love, but turn around and hate on his actual policies) did not believe in union organizations for public sector employees.

So this is, my party. I believe in the thing that the party has long held true. I do not believe in redistribution, punishing high wage earners with a 90+% tax, or blaming every societal ill on those who make more than $380,000 a year.

You who do, have hijacked my party and driven it hard to the left, and used republican talking points (THE NEW DEAL IS SOCIALISM!!!) to make your socialistic positions seem in the vein of FDR.

I suggest you really examine what the New Deal and Great Society plans were about and ask yourself whether what Bernard Sanders has proposed falls into line with those programs, or something else entirely.

 

BlueJazz

(25,348 posts)
5. Little Debbie is probably having a mind-orgasm over this news. She about as democratic as ...
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 06:57 PM
Dec 2015

...Karl Rove.

 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
6. Bra-vo!
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 06:58 PM
Dec 2015

Here's something for the DNC to chew on:

"The DNC’s action inflamed non-political people who are backing Bernie Sanders and tend to see political parties as cartels that do not believe in the normal processes of Democracy."

It inflamed everybody who realizes the game is being rigged for HRC, Her Royal Clintoness.

 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
11. Where did I say that?
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:03 PM
Dec 2015

Oh, that's right, I didn't.

However, the fear card isn't working like it used to. Young people are not going to stay in the very small, shrunken tent the DNC has created.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
19. MY loyalty is to the Women and minorities and Gay folks who might actually DIE if the
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:36 PM
Dec 2015

teaparty takes over the WH

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
21. That's wonderful
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:41 PM
Dec 2015

I stand up for women, minorities, and the LGBT community as well.

However, that didn't address the question.

What is it with you wanting loyalty oaths from DUers?

randys1

(16,286 posts)
23. Where did I EVER ask for a loyalty oath? I merely ask the question if you are or are not
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:44 PM
Dec 2015

going to vote for the Democrat in the election.

It is a simple question.

Do you understand the psychology of why my asking the question bothers you so much, you and others?

It is a basic question. you can ask me if you want, if I dont want to answer, I wont.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
59. Doesn't bother me.
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 04:07 PM
Dec 2015

I won't vote for Hillary for anything. I simply don't trust her and can't bring myself to do that. I've held my nose for the last time, which is the point of the OP.

That said, I also live in a solidly red state, so my voting for Jill Stein should Bernie not be the nominee isn't earth shattering and won't change anything.

However, if you're willing to risk an unenthusiastic Democratic base and a very motivated (to vote against her) Republican base in the general election, be my guest, but that opinion doesn't exactly jive with your declaration that you support minorities who could die should a Republican be president.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
62. For the 234th time, I am a Bernie supporter (unless 538 proves to me Hillary has a better chance)
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 05:30 PM
Dec 2015

and my sole issue is NOT voting for ANY dem, let alone prez, is allowing one more vote to count for people who will do such great harm to life on this planet that I cant believe we are having this discussion, again.

Sad

bread_and_roses

(6,335 posts)
35. They are dying now - along with drone-strike victims, people still w/o health care
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 08:58 PM
Dec 2015

as well as immigrants, the discarded working class men, homeless veterans, prisoners in under-staffed facilities without the funding for proper staffing & medical services, the mentally ill who cannot get care - I could probably think of more if I tried.

And both Clintons and (alas) Obama have a responsibility for this legacy. They are not the only parties responsible, but they have supported and enacted policies that contribute to these deaths.

Clinton's much-vaunted "concern" or whatever for children does not extend to the children blown to bloody bits by cluster bombs or drone strikes; her much-vaunted "advocacy" or whatever for women does not even extend to supporting a living-wage.

I fail to see just how a Clinton presidency changes any of that, as she exemplifies the "Third Way" or NeoLib or whatever you want to call the policies that have consistently left ordinary people struggling just to survive and allow the Banksters and our Corporate Overlords suck up the wealth of the world.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
16. your first bolded part is particularly telling, especially since we have an actual alternative
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:12 PM
Dec 2015

this time in the primary. An actual liberal who wants to fight for the things that dems should fight for, and will win the ge if nominated, and will BTW have a lot of coattails in the down ticket races.

Mrs Clinton's repulsive fans in the press and at du have made it a point to declare daily that they detest Bernie and liberals, and don't want to hear about her conservative politics or her constant pandering. The abuse of liberals by the New Democrats and their sycophants may be reaching critical mass. It needs to happen soon anyway.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
47. Yes, that's important about coattails for down ticket races.
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:41 AM
Dec 2015

And yes, I think Bernie would fit that role.

emsimon33

(3,128 posts)
20. Like the Republicans...
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:39 PM
Dec 2015

if your candidate can not stand on his/her own record, then use fear, suppress the vote, and use other tactics to try to ensure the win. In this case, it WILL ensure the win...but for the Republican nominee.

If they thought HRC was such a great candidate, they would not assume Republican tactics!

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
26. But then the question comes up:
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:50 PM
Dec 2015

Do many of the PTB in the democratic party really
care about the possibility of her losing?

For me the answer has been NO for a long time.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
27. BIG K&R
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 07:51 PM
Dec 2015
"a large segment of voters the party depends on feels the deck is stacked against the candidates they favor like Senator Sanders who articulate the views they live by. These are what I call “movement progressives.” They are motivated by issues particularly economic ones and are not comfortable with the Wall Street ties of the Obama Administration and the Clinton campaign.

Those connected closely to politics support Secretary Clinton, like they did her husband because of the political benefit – Democratic administration and the potential for patronage jobs or consulting contracts."


Could not have said it better myself, and perfectly explains the split on DU.
I am a Movement Progressive

Gloria

(17,663 posts)
41. The little idealists need to grow up and get that
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 09:38 PM
Dec 2015

the GOP has rolled back many progessive things that we need to reclaim and then we need to stabilize.

So, weep about how impure HRC is, let the GOP totally control the Supreme Court and then...screw you.

Grow up. Get a sense of history. Realize that you will help screw us for decades...

This is not a time to go back 40 years in hope of a huge revolution...
We need to save what we have which has been decimated by the GOP....

Please, is there anybody who thinks beyond the siren song of bullshit??

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
45. "the little idealists need to grow up"....I am proud to be an idealist.
Tue Dec 29, 2015, 11:17 PM
Dec 2015

You said:

This is not a time to go back 40 years in hope of a huge revolution...
We need to save what we have which has been decimated by the GOP....


It isn't the GOP that has diminished our party. Our party leaders listened to an elite group of thinkers...and they kept on listening and following and listening and following...

They are still doing it today.

I am proud to be an idealist.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
63. Is there anybody who thinks beyond the Siren Song?
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 05:33 PM
Dec 2015

YES!!!! Many Thousands of us who have actually examined the ISSUES, and don't belong to a fan club.
Here is why:

15 Fundamental Differences Between Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, and The Republicans:


1. Sanders has served as an elected official for over 34 years. Clinton & most Republicans have not.

2. Sanders has supported gay rights since 40 years ago. Clinton and Republicans have not.

3. Sanders wants to end the prohibition of marijuana. Clinton & The Republicans do not.

4. Sanders wants to end the death penalty. Clinton and Th Republicans do not.

5. Sanders wants to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. Clinton and the Republicans do not.

6. Sanders wants to break up the biggest banks. Clinton and The Republicans do not.

7. Sanders voted against the Wall Street bailout. Clinton and the Republicans (and too many "Democrats) did not.

8. Sanders introduced legislation to overturn Citizens United. Clinton and The Republicans did not.

9. Sanders refuses to accept money from super PACs. Clinton and the Republicans do not.

10. Sanders supports a single-payer healthcare system. Clinton and The Republicans do not.

11. Sanders refrains from waging personal attacks for political gains. Clinton and The Republicans do not.

12. Sanders considers climate change our nation's biggest threat. Clinton and The Republicans do not.

13. Sanders opposed the Keystone XL Pipeline since day one. Clinton and the Republicans do not.

14. Sanders voted against the Patriot Act. Clinton and the Republicans did not.

15. Sanders voted against the war in Iraq. Clinton and The Republicans did not.


Hillary sure seems to agree with Republicans a lot.
I don't,
that is why I am a Democrat, and voting for a Democrat....Bernie!

nashville_brook

(20,958 posts)
52. the state party CHAIR and VICE CHAIR both are official HRC campaign members
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 11:23 AM
Dec 2015

just thought that bears repeating.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
54. Actually most of the FL Dem party leaders are her supporters.
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 01:56 PM
Dec 2015

If we are thought of at all, it's an after thought.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
58. I can honestly say I'm a liberal Democrat at my wit's end.
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 03:59 PM
Dec 2015

I'm not privileged, either.

I know how I'm voting if Sanders isn't the nominee because I can't see much of a difference anymore except on some social issues. I'll grant that Clinton is to the left on social policy, but her foreign and economic policies are far too "right" for me.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Florida Squeeze: A seriou...