2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumA suggestion: both sides should stop talking about missed votes unless and until it matters
The fact is that since April, there has not been a single vote in the Senate in which Sanders' showing up or not showing up was decisionally significant.
The same thing is true for the votes that Clinton missed when she was running for President in 2007-08.
So folks should stop talking about the number of votes that Clinton missed (or Rubio for that matter) unless they can point to one that was decisionally significant, and the same goes for folks talking about votes that Sanders missed. If the defense for either one is that missing the vote was not decisionally significant, then that defense applies to both, no matter how many votes are missed.
I said some time ago that the missed votes issue was bogus. And it is. (Which is why it was foolish for Bernie and Reid and others to criticize Rubio).
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Elections have Consequences. Democrats did not vote in 2014 and gave away the store to Republicans.
onenote
(42,702 posts)The Democrats controlled the Senate in 2007, but from Oct through Dec (the period people are citing when the discuss the number of votes Clinton missed), there wasn't a single vote that turned on Clinton not voting. In fact there were only two or three votes in 99 votes were cast, and Clinton showed up for all of them (McCain was the MIA Senator), even though the vote wasn't decisionally significant. Which is besides the point, which is that this is a bogus issue for all sides.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Democrats in most states run in primaries, and the Democrats that Democrats want to run, win.
People who don't vote don't give a fuck. Republicans will give them what they deserve. Those of us who want to fight to make things better will decide which person in every election is the best and vote for them. We suffer when people who don't fucking care don't vote.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)a real choice. The 1% buys elections for the Republicons and Conservative Democrats. Progressives have been disenfranchised.
If you want people to give a fuck, help us throw the corrupt bastards out of Washington. If you want more of the same crap the 1% has been dealing us for the last 40 years, vote for the Status Quo, vote for Goldman-Sachs's favorite.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)so the whole real Democrat argument makes not sense at all. Democrats who vote in primaries voted for real Democrats.
I say it is just piss pour education, irresponsibility, or they just don't give a damn.
People who don't vote have no reason to complain.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)If Bernie can symbolically put bills on the senate floor during his campaign that he knows has no chance of passing, then he should also show up to cast symbolic votes.
onenote
(42,702 posts)You can't be that naive. During the first term of the 110th Congress, Clinton introduced 235 bills, resolutions or amendments. Around a dozen of the amendments were approved. Around another dozen of the resolutions or bills got Senate approval. Over 200 of these measures went absolutely nowhere.
Again, I'm not picking on Clinton. Just pointing out that both sides are hypocritical when they try to make missing votes seem more consequential than it is.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Senator clinton had an opportunity to vote no on giving President Bush sweeping authority to declare war on Iraq. She chose not to. her arm wasn't twisted, and you and I both know she's no idiot - she knew what she was voting for, who was asking for it, and what the result would be. Senator Clinton has a hand in the death and brutalization of Iraqi women. Of course, the Bush administration has a bigger hand, and the others who voted for it are no cleaner - but clinton still has that blood on her hands.
Through that same vote, and her tenure as head of hte State Department, she also has a hand in the issue of Syria. Not only did the chaos of Iraq metastasize into Syria, but the State Department took an active hand in Syria, arming and training "Rebvel Groups", intentionally aggravating and extending a civil war, to further the department's aims of toppling Assad. Clinton thus has some responsibility for the death and brutalization visited upon Syrian women.
The clinton State department also strove to smother the arab Spring movements in Egypt and Bahrain, selling arms and "crowd control" to the king of Bahrain and giving unending support to the dictator of Egypt, Mubarak. In both states, rape by police was a common tactic against female protesters and activists, in addition to the more casual brutalities one might expect of everyday life under such dictatorships.
In Libya, much as with Syria, the State Department under Clinton strove to destroy the nation's leader - no saint himself, but at least Libya wasn't... well, look at it now. That's Clinton's work, that's her legacy. she even had a good laugh about it, remember, we came, we saw, he died, hah hah hah. How do you think Libyan women are faring? That so many seem ot be first in line to try to row cardboard boxes across the Mediterranean ought to tell you.
THis is your candidate, from beginning to end. This is what she's all about. You look at this record, and.. .what? "Women matter"> Really? They didn't matter when Clinton was giving the bahraini security forces batons used to subdue and sodomize women in the streets of Manama. They didn't matter when Clinton signed on to kill hundreds of thousands of women from Basra to Mosul so she could "look tough on defense." Women didn't matter when Sec. Clinton was shipping arms and money and training to "rebels" who would go on to enslave Yazidi women and decapitate any who resisted the whims of their "husbands."
This is without even looking at Clinton's defense of the use of cluster bombs - the majority of the victims of these things are women and children. and it doesn't look at her State Department's ties with brutal anti-woman regimes the world over without major conflicts going on - Prominently Saudi Arabia.
If my pointing this stuff out offends you more than the brutalization of women I describe offends you? Then tough shit.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)lives mattered. Those people should be held accountable, but they all got wealthy. And that's the culture that is supported with a vote for the status quo.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Unlike Hillary who supported a ban on late term abortions when she was running for the Senate against a Republican.
Apparently she was willing to bargain away our rights to get elected.
Women didn't matter so much then.