2016 Postmortem
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This message was self-deleted by its author (AZ Progressive) on Fri Dec 4, 2015, 12:39 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Psssst. Pro tip--the DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE (they're those folks headquartered in the PENTAGON) is a different cabinet agency than the DEPARTMENT OF STATE.
I smell flopsweat.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)The Republicans won't be as easy as you are...
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)Im 100% sure she was responsible for the California Fires last summer...
I read it somewhere..
Hekate
(91,299 posts)The Republicans have been lying and smearing Hillary since she was First Lady of Arkansas and had the nerveless gall to keep both her career and her maiden name.
They have you beat 6 ways from Sunday in that regard.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)And Nuland has essentially been involved in regime change activities.
I don't know if she is gullible or not but she seems to at least "go along" with a lot of this stuff (basically a continuation of PNAC).
PNAC has had it's hands all over the middle east. MCcain is spending as much time out of the country promoting "democracy (IE war) as in Washington.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)Hillary Clintons Neocon Legacy: Coups, Dictators, Corruption, Chaos, Executions and Assassination
David William Pear
The Real News
http://therealnews.com/t2/component/content/article/170-more-blog-posts-from-david-william-pear/2458-hillary-clintons-neocon-legacy-coups-dictators-corruption-chaos-executions-and-assassination
MADem
(135,425 posts)Google Bernie Sanders and Cervical Cancer and be VERY afraid of those "Republicans."
Don't wave a two-edged sword about like that--you'll cut yourself.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)Now I pity them when I'm not laughing at them.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Thus, the Republicans don't need a smoking gun to make Hillary complicit in this.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)The best defense is a good offense.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)Thank you in advance.
Response to AZ Progressive (Reply #17)
MMTampa This message was self-deleted by its author.
Hekate
(91,299 posts)Very telling.
randys1
(16,286 posts)Bubzer
(4,211 posts)But as you say; We can not live our lives in fear of what the GOP will or won't do.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)I don't doubt for a second that they have something good they are holding for an October surprise type thing. Something to raise doubt at the last moments. They would be stupid not to/
Hekate
(91,299 posts)2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)Though many bank and corporate bigwigs did say they would be happy with Hillary or a republican. Like they felt they would benefit equally from either.
And I have always felt republicans wanted to go up against Hillary because of all that baggage she has for them to use against her.
Laser102
(816 posts)By the REAL enemy, the republicans. If there was anything they could throw at her, it has already been done. She is going to be a great President.
Beacool
(30,254 posts)It seems that anything is acceptable, as long as it's against Hillary. It doesn't matter the source or whether it's a RW talking point. As long as it bashes Hillary, then it's A-OK.
Silly me to think that this was a Democratic board.
msongs
(67,607 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)literally by her side. If something bad happened while Hillary was SOS, it was all Obama's fault. Always.
You'd think it was part of a playbook.
msongs
(67,607 posts)credit
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)EOM
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I thought the point was less war?
merrily
(45,251 posts)not confident of her chances in the general.
Gothmog
(146,432 posts)It is hard to take the Sanders claims seriously when the Sanders supporters and campaign are unable to explain how Sanders is viable in a general election contest where the Kochs will be spending $887 million and the RNC candidate may be spending another billion dollars. Nominating a non-mainstream candidate who will not be viable in the general election is not an attractive option compared to the largely mythical claims concerning Sec. Clinton.
If the Sanders supporters want people to take Sanders seriously as an alternative to Clinton, then they need to have some explanation as to how Sanders is viable in a general election. I keep looking and asking for such an explanation and yet to see anything that makes sense. I note for example that even Sander's own campaign manager does not think that Sander will be the nominee and has defined sucess as Sanders doing as well as Jessee Jackson did in 1984 and 1988. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/12/bernie-sanders-s-strategist-this-is-how-we-win.html If you read the last three paragraphs of this article, Sanders campaign manager does not outline a path to the nomination but a path to be a "serious" candidate.
Sanderss outsider campaign has been likened to Jesse Jacksons insurgent campaign in 1988it wasnt until the Wisconsin primary in April that Michael Dukakis defeated Jackson. But Devine thinks the more apt analogy to todays politics is 1984 when the combination of Gary Harts insurgency and Jacksons coalition of minority voters together almost beat Walter Mondale. Jackson never received support from the institutional party, but he demanded respect. If we register, as Jesse Jackson did, millions of people, that would be a huge lift for the party in Senate races. And for whichever Democrat reaches the magic number of delegates next year to secure the nomination.
The idea that Sanders is good for the Democratic Party is a hard lesson for Clinton to appreciate in the heat of battle. But hes got voters fired up and ready to go, and Democrats need that energy.
The apparent goal of this campaign is not for Sanders to be the nominee but to be considered a serious candidate who might almost beat Hillary Clinton.
I was amused that this article was discussed as being positive for Sanders http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=667157 I read the entire article including the last three paragraphs. It appears that thee best that Sanders' campaign manager is hoping for is to duplicate Jessee Jackson's 1984 feat of getting close to keeping Mondale from the being the nominee. My problem is that I like most Clinton supporters like Sanders and already respect him on a personal level. I am not sure what more Sanders will get by being a serious contender.
This article is silent on what Sanders intend to do in a general election contest in that it appears that Sanders campaign manager does not expect that Sanders will be the nominee.
Again, support the candidate of your choice and I will support the candidate who I think is most viable. I have a great deal of personal respect for Sanders and I have no problem with giving Sanders a great deal of respect at the Democratic National Convention for being a serious contender.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)shenmue
(38,506 posts)I would have spit all over my phone.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Funniest OP I've read in a while!
You totally nailed the kind of bullshit that Hillary Haters spew on a regular basis.
Well done!!!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Nah, it has to be.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Aside from being fabulous?
zappaman
(20,606 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)brooklynite
(95,301 posts)To paraphrase a question I keep getting asked: "if they're so confident that Sanders is going to win, why is all of this mud necessary?"
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)The suggestion that he isn't and they aren't is farcical.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)starting with Europe right now.
If we keep feeding this monster it will consume us.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)but this Sanders supporter has been angry for a long time. Angry that people would even consider Hillary. She will not change a thing. We will continue to limp along with more and more of the middle and lower class losing ground and outright dying, while the rich take everything. There is zero chance of change with Hillary. Zero. So yeah, I will back someone who gives us hope like Obama did against her any day. Even when that hope is less than we wanted. Hope is better than knowing good damned well that more of your friends and family are going to lose this fucking battle to survive.
So no your schemes and games and words are not pissing me off but the whole damned idea of purposely backing a corporate shill pissed me off greatly. Yes, she may very well win but the entire fucking world loses if she does.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)that colors our world.
The anti Hillary paradigms are a dime a dozen around here.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)It blows the mind that some "on our side" would vote for republican lite. It feels like the general election when we have to face the republicans followed by a general election in which we have to face the republicans.
Thank you -- this truly sums up how I am feeling as well.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)It is truly a horrible feeling that gives me a sadness inside for America. I know it wouldn't be as bad as an actual republican in office but the people will surely fail to thrive and continue our downward spiral.
TheFarseer
(9,331 posts)I'm glad government run by the highest bidder is so funny to most in this thread because it's about to get hilarious in the USA.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)that's what gets his supporters going. That's why he has stalled.
enid602
(8,711 posts)Swell. Another paranoid prediction from the Bernie Bunker, as rhe Clinton Army reaches the outskirts of the city.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)shenmue
(38,506 posts)This is garbage.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)Our western leaders are not telling us the full story. They are leading us down a very dark path.
We are sleepwalking to oblivion, at the hands of a monster we helped create.
The time to wake up is now.
Gamecock Lefty
(702 posts)I'm standing tall with the ticking time bomb!
Go get 'em, Hillary!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)stupidicus
(2,570 posts)and should that happen her supporters will blame everyone but themselves
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Jesus Christ on a crutch!
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)eom
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)I don't buy this bullshit. Bush created ISIS, and they have been out of control for years now. Hillary has land mines to jump, but I don't think this will explode on her. This is GOP talking points 101.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)and ALL the alarm bells should be sounding.
Response to AzDar (Reply #41)
Blue_Adept This message was self-deleted by its author.
rurallib
(62,537 posts)what I am thinking may earn me a timeout.
edit to add - at times like this I sure miss that unrec button.
Blue_Adept
(6,406 posts)Or perhaps this is more to the liking?
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)to them.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)I would prefer you argue your case against Hillary without using RW talking points. Credibility is diminished when you call Obama and or Hillary a "war monger" in one breath (like Rand Paul) and then post an OP saying they are both "soft on terrorism" (every GOP member). If an OP smells like it comes from Rush Limbaugh or FOX Snooze, then it probably does.
Godhumor
(6,437 posts)Any questions?
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I'd rather do a few lines of ajax cleanser than watch this video.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)SunSeeker
(51,970 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Swann
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Proud Liberal Dem
(24,474 posts)What's the NEXT thing that's going to destroy her candidacy (and our party)? I'm breathless with anticipation. /s If anybody should be worried about an election disaster in 2016, it should be Republicans. All of their candidates are literally walking disasters. I'm not losing sleep over Hillary.
Crystalite
(164 posts)That we created ISIS is entirely within the realm of possibilities.
We are that fucked up.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Really? That is where we are at here?
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)I can smell it from my computer.
Joe Turner
(930 posts)If it wasn't for the pubic uproar over Obama's statements that he was going to send troops into Syria to take out Assad he would have done it. Obama, Hillary et al decided IMO to select option II -- support and arm ISIS. This is big time blow back and another example of Hillary's bad judgement in foreign affairs.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)Even as a Bernie guy, I am not comfortable in blindly accepting this video at face vale. First I googled his name and read his Wikipedia information. He was originally a local Fox channel announcer. Then he was in Cincinnati with an NBC affiliate, and back to a Fox station. But I noticed he had his own YouTube channel so I went there and looked and listened to other RealityCheck shows.
Ben Swann seems to straddle the fence in his various topics, which tells me he's bipartisan in his attacks. One segment is how the GOP was rigging elections. He also blasted Debbie Wasserman-Schultz for her debate restrictions. So he seems to have an equal opportunity focus. This gives me a bit more comfort that his views are above board.
Beacool
(30,254 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)is time running out on Bernie
ESKD
(57 posts)Clinton is just extremely high risk as a nominee.