Hillary Clinton SNUBS MoveOn.org

[Segami]

Hillary Clinton declined to participate in a virtual presidential candidates’ forum hosted by MoveOn.org, snubbing one of the largest progressive groups that claims 8 million members. All three Democratic candidates were invited to participate in the forum, which involved the candidates answering questions submitted by MoveOn members via video, but only Sen. Bernie Sanders and former Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley agreed. Video of their answers was released Tuesday afternoon.

“It’s a shame that Secretary Clinton declined to participate in the MoveOn member forum,” said Anna Galland, the executive director of MoveOn.org Civic Action, in a statement to MSNBC. “She missed an opportunity to speak directly to and energize the progressive base she’ll need in her corner not just to win the nomination but also the general election, if she is the party’s nominee.”

A Clinton spokesperson declined to comment. MoveOn and Clinton have a long and not always an amicable history. The group started in 1998 to fight the impeachment of her husband, former President Bill Clinton. In 2007, all eight candidates for the Democratic nomination, including Hillary Clinton, participated in the group’s presidential forum. MoveOn ended up endorsing Barack Obama. Several months later, Clinton was recorded at a closed-door fundraiser complaining that “MoveOn.org endorsed [Obama] – which is like a gusher of money that never seems to slow down.” She went on to say, “they know I don’t agree with them,” and she warned the group would “flood” caucuses with activists, including some who “intimidate people who actually show up to support me.” Earlier this year, MoveOn worked to draft Sen. Elizabeth Warren into the 2016 Democratic presidential race, arguing she would be a better pick for the party than Clinton.

But if Clinton was worried about MoveOn’s gusher of money and ability to mobilize activists then, she clearly is not now. While MoveOn is still by far the largest group of its kind, its influence and spending power may have waned as other groups have moved into its space. Still, Democratic strategist Mike Lux, who has spent years in the progressive movement, said Clinton made an error in skipping the forum. “I just think it’s a really bad mistake,” he told MSNBC. “Her biggest problem, I think, both in the primary and in the general is energizing the Democratic base.”

“Before this election is over, she’s going to need not only their vote – and she’ll get most of their votes, though some may stay home – she’s going to need their passion. She’s going to need them knocking on doors, donating money, talking to their friends,” Lux said. “She’s blowing that part of the base off, and with 8 million members, that’s a lot of people.”

cont'

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/hillary-clinton-snubs-moveon

[Duckhunter935]

1. Not surprised

She snubbed BET the other day. She is just proving who she actually will support, 😔

[billhicks76]

34. Youre Not Allowed To Challenge Hillary On DU

Ive been threatened again today for pointing out Clinton's law enforcement views ruined many of my friends families. She and her husband turned a blind eye to drug war atrocities here at home and merely pointing out that exposing police corruption doesnt support Hillary's narrative is enough for her supporters to go for the jugular and try to outright ban someone. Ive never seen something so pathetic and mirroring exactly what republicans and especially Bush supporters did. Its insulting to decent human beings. They really think its their turn and they deserve to rule the world. This is the same campaign that paraded around a picture of Obama in a turban trying to smear him as a Muslim.

[Duckhunter935]

38. It is so true they plot and alert swarm

For those that do not support her. That is why I try and be very careful.

[murielm99]

45. BS.

It is the Bernie supporters here, the vast majority, who target those who disagree with them.

[billhicks76]

62. You're Dreaming

Pointing out the truth comes with the territory. If you can't debate then go home. Clintonites try to ban you. They are about censorship because the facts aren't on their side. They say go home just because we tried to debate. They say go home before debating. They say go home for calling them out. We only say go home if you can't handle debate. Clintonites are about power, control and censorship. I've seen it many times. I've served on countless juries. Not one Bernie supporter alerted. Scores of over sensitive Hillary supporters did. Once again the facts don't support you. You can claim whatever you want.

[gordyfl]

99. I agree.

I've been visiting this site for close to 15 years now. I've never posted until recently. It looks to me like Hillary supporters are on the prowl. What I'm seeing is turning more into shenanigans.

[SCantiGOP]

126. Question is:

Can Sagami post without USING capital letters?
Thanks for the hyped up DRAMA!

[840high]

73. False.

[Le Taz Hot]

79. Uh, Bernie supporters aren't the ones who started a rival site

wherein they openly target Bernie supporters and stalk them until they get them a timeout or worse. You see, Bernie supporters are actually out campaigning for their candidate. A foreign concept, I know, but try to grasp it.

[rhett o rick]

91. HRC supporters are a small minority here but yield a lot of power.

Alerting, locking, hiding, banning and grave-dancing. If you want to see what Sanders supporters post, look at all the issues in the Bernie Sanders Group and the Populist Reform Group.

[Lordquinton]

105. The fact that a group has the same avatar

The little crawling bug getting squashed by a fly swatter undermines any noton that they are here to work together.

[murielm99]

106. I see Bernistas all over the place

who have adopted the crawling bug, the avatar of an odious poster who was banned.

As usual, the HRC supporters started squashing the bug as an answer to the bernie bullies.

Bernie supporters have a bad reputation all over the Internet, not only on DU.

[billhicks76]

110. That's A Lie

I'm not a Bernie campaigner or Hillary supporter and I can easily say Hillary herself is widely known to be untrustworthy and Bernie is exactly the opposite. His supporters have energy yes...it will bring out voted while the vileness of what Hillarys campaign does makes people want to stay home unless it pisses them off enough to energize to come out to vote against her. We all saw what her and her ilk tried to do to Obama labeling him a Muslim

[Lordquinton]

116. I saw it happen in reverse

And when you're reading a thread where one person has the bug, and the other person has the bug getting smashed, the effect is a very hostile one.

I'm gonna stop there, drifting far too much into a meta analysis.

[kristopher]

56. Even if true, so what do you do?

Do you honestly think that you are following, even one iota, the strategy that Sanders is asking us to follow? He is trying to keep the focus on the issues, and even if the complaints you voice are true (not arguing, merely stipulating) you lose for everyone when you follow them down 'that path'. You know 'that path' right? The one they run the horserace on?

If it is a horserace - the in-place power structure is going to win.

If it is not relentlessly about the REAL issues affecting the dissolution of the middle class, the power elite wins.

Note that I could have personalized it and said "Hillary wins" instead of specifying that the thing we are all trying to affect is not any one individual, it is an entire system of power relationships.

So as one Bernie supporter to another, knock it off.

ETA: Please.

[billhicks76]

65. I Cannot Fake It For Anyone Sorry

Do you recall Clinton attacking Jerry Brown during the 91 PBS Roundtable primary debate? I suggest you watch it. He physically threatened him on live TV implying that he and Bush Sr had already decided who the democratic nominee would be. I wasn't surprised when he excused all that administrations IranContra crimes. He said it was to get along and move forward. You know what forward was? Paving the way for that entire admin to return in 2000 and begin wars in the Middle East as planned in the late 90s. It's time to take a stand.

[kristopher]

68. Have it your way.

Keep making it personal, even though the candidate you claim to support explicitly and repeatedly asks us to not make this personal but to focus on the issues.

Got it. Thanks for the lesson.

ETA: You might enjoy reading this when you take a break from ball-busting the opposition.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=839340

As to the OP. Do you suppose the fundamental reason the power elite isn't worried about losing Move On is b
because they've put together a nice little show in the Middle East? Again...

[billhicks76]

80. DU Has Gone To Shit

Its all about censorship. No different than Rethuglicans.

[artislife]

84. How is what he is saying personal.

I mean in the way you are implying. I feel he is being specific. Specific about Hillary and her husband. Guess what? She is running, he ran. They are a political individuals and a political team. How can one talk about the issues and how the candidate might/will handle/ has handled without being specific?

I think team h reminds me of Insurance companies. They want everyone to buy in, but they get to set the parameters on pricing, packaging, what's allowable, what is deemed necessary and what will be rejected.

SMH.

[billhicks76]

111. He Should

Bernie is right. But stating facts isn't personal. Hillary paraded photos around of Obama in a turban. Hillary acts like a Republican. Hillary supported draconian drug laws and private prisons and still does, she resembles Tony Blair a liberal neocon. These are facts and not personal. To Hillary supporters everything is concocted to be personal. That's the problem. It's hardly personal for me to point this out. Once again that's the circular logo FOX uses.

[kristopher]

114. "But stating facts isn't personal." - - - Seriously?

Facts can be inserted in any kind of argument. Good logic, bad logic, personal or impersonal - the use of "facts" is everywhere.

How you use the facts and present them is what matters. Yes, the Clintons are part of the oligarchy. I don't know what to tell you if you can't recognize that this is a personal attack instead of JUST a discussion focused on how her policies are bad for the people.

Ive been threatened again today for pointing out Clinton's law enforcement views ruined many of my friends families. She and her husband turned a blind eye to drug war atrocities here at home and merely pointing out that exposing police corruption doesnt support Hillary's narrative is enough for her supporters to go for the jugular and try to outright ban someone. Ive never seen something so pathetic and mirroring exactly what republicans and especially Bush supporters did. Its insulting to decent human beings. They really think its their turn and they deserve to rule the world. This is the same campaign that paraded around a picture of Obama in a turban trying to smear him as a Muslim.

Do me a favor. Try to rewrite that paragraph with only a single reference to clinton; focus instead on the policies themselves and how Bernie will work to change them.

[billhicks76]

115. Really? That's Twisted

Last edited Wed Nov 25, 2015, 08:39 PM - Edit history (1)

You cannot separate her from the policies, and we don't get to vote on policies. That would be awesome if we could. Then there would be no deceitful middleman undermining everything behind our backs. But this is reality. We have to vote for people federally. Luckily in my state we have ballot initiatives at the state level. Betnie doesn't expect us not to mention Clinton by name. You have severely misunderstood him. He's just not going to get into personal attacks like she constantly does. You should research what constitutes a personal attack. Calling Bernie sexist and racist are two. Passing around photos of Obama in a turban is another. How can you vote for a woman who did that?

[kristopher]

117. Then you really don't understand the campaign you claim to support.

Even though it isn't complicated, you'd apparently rather indulge your inner gorilla than win an election.

Good luck with that, because that anger, together with fear, are the main tools the oligarchs are counting on to maintain their power in a country where everyone can vote.

http://buddhainthemud.com/2014/06/29/the-inner-gorilla/

[billhicks76]

125. Good Luck With Your Erroneous Analysis

And I'm not a Bernie clone either. Im not associated with one campaign or another. I am way less trusting of Hillary...at least publicly.

[kristopher]

127. "Bernie clone"?

"I am way less trusting of Hillary...at least publicly"?

Why am I not surprised. I suppose that means you want it to be a horserace.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=847311

[billhicks76]

139. So Clueless

I don't know where you get this stuff. I wish Hillary and her self-entitled ambition never entered the race. That family has been surrogates for Bush Sr since I can remember. I like O'Malley waaaaay better. I think it's obvious at this point that the National Security, Military-Industrial-Surveillance Complex apperatus is in charge of our government. I fear for Bernies safety if he wins. He knows the danger. He's a hero for standing up against this status quo crap. I'm with him, Snowden and the BLM activists. That's where my heart is and will be.

[PatrynXX]

130. Kinda why I've been getting on DU less and less

if this is the Hillary underground okay. but if it's not longer about Democrats whats the point

[PatrickforO]

2. Well nobody is really passionate about Clinton.

She's just never been that type of leader and in spite of all the reboots during this campaign she's hasn't be able to generate it.

[PoliticalMalcontent]

46. Nobody is really passionate about her because...

she's not really in it for the people. She's in it for the power. That's why it's so easy for her to change her positions at any given moment. It's not about helping people. It's about calculating the delegate/electoral math.

[Jarqui]

104. +1

[Indepatriot]

3. A Zebra cannot change it's stripes.

[DJ13]

4. snubbing one of the largest progressive groups

She wouldnt be comfortable in that environment.

[Segami]

7. Thats 3 she's snubbed.....

from my count.

- NetrootsNation

- BET's Criminal Justice Forum

- MoveOn.org's Presidential Candidate Forum

[DJ13]

8. I bet she wouldnt miss

the Goldman Sachs company picnic!

[senz]

20. lol!

Yep.

[Duckhunter935]

39. Oh, hell no

[Hepburn]

83. Oh, hell no, she would not snub that soiree!

And she would bring the Hillary buttons for them!

[gordyfl]

102. LOL!

Or a fundraiser at a billionaire's mansion.

[polly7]

35. Just curious, are these organizations popular with young people? nt.

[kristopher]

71. They don't need the progressive wing - they have terror and war. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

5. ironic, given that moveon originally was created to tell the GOP to "move on" from endlessly

wasting time and taxpayer money investigating her husband's administration and/or underwear drawer.

[kath]

12. YES.Beat me to it. MoveOn was started as a movement to tell the GOP to Move(the fuck)ON from all the

Impeachment bullshit and other assorted crap.

Quite ironic that she snubs them.

[TheBlackAdder]

66. Hmm. I've been a MoveOn member for years. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

76. Yeah, because IIRC it was formed during the whole Monica Lewinsky deal.

So it's gotta be practically 20 years old.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

96. I was one of the first hundred or so people --

to sign that original MoveOn petition -- have been with them as an organization since. Not smart on Hillary's part.

[Major Hogwash]

6. She won't have to worry about energizing the base in the general.

Because she won't be the nominee.

[INdemo]

18. I think you could be right.She has to have progressive votes to

win.Right now I believe Bernie Sanders has the momentum going his way and I think the Clinton campaign's internal polls shows just that....(the reason for the attempts to "Swift Boat" Bernie)

[WillyT]

9. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

10. A wrong move for Clinton

[bvar22]

89. She does lack Common Sense in many important decisions.

....a long track record.

[msongs]

11. not going does not equal snub. except to the bernie crowd of course nt

[Segami]

13. The header is MSNBC's....

its so easy to point your finger and lay blame at your so called ' bernie crowd of course'.........

[oasis]

14. Hill will make the scheduled debates. MoveOn is welcome to tune in.

[senz]

21. Because she calls the shots and ya have to do it her way. Right?

Is that what you want in a president?

[oasis]

29. Don't knock it. After all, nothing succeeds like success.

Bernie and Mark O will get a few more shots at Hillary. In the prescribed time. On the bright side, they have an opportunity to get to work on their foreign policy chops.

[aidbo]

33. Governor O'Malley's first name is Martin. nt

[oasis]

36. Thanks. nt

[senz]

55. So you like a rigged primary where the DNC chair

headed up Hillary's 2008 Florida campaign and debates are kept down to a few on inauspicious nights? Because, let's face it, she couldn't hold up under equitable circumstances. DWS' DNC has to shelter her.

The people be damned, right?

As for foreign policy chops, Bernie's foreign policy votes have consistently represented good judgment, and we can't say the same for Hillary can we? As for her SOS experience -- well, as she crowed, she traveled to a lot of countries. But she left the middle east in worse shape. Obama didn't get a truly effective SOS until his second term.

[oasis]

57. I'm pretty sure scores of elected Democrats had the same look at

Hill's history as you did, but guess what? They overwhelmingly chose her over the available field.

Not even the staunchest Bernie (2 endorsements) supporter can deny Hill has the overwhelming backing of Democrats in congress. On that fact alone, I have to bow to their wisdom and reject what you have asserted. Again, they have the same historical facts on Hillary available to them as you do.

As for DWS rigging the debates, I doubt it, but judging from the results so far, it's a good thing for Bernie they were limited to six.

[senz]

60. The D.C. in-crowd "chooses" based on personal safety,

not on a candidate's virtues or principled stand on the issues. Insider politics is a power game fueled by money, connections, and fear -- which happen to be Hillary's strengths -- not on "historical facts." They do not display "wisdom," they display self-protection and fear. That's Washington D.C.

As for the debates, Bernie won the first debate but the Corporate Controlled Media handed it to Hillary. In the second debate, Hillary shot herself in the foot so spectacularly that even the CCM had to admit a serious gaffe. No wonder DWS wants to help control her image.

Please don't throw these falsehoods and fantasies at me.

[oasis]

63. Your attempt to explain away the cumulative years of public

servants as a bunch of paid off cowards because they don't support your guy, falls flat.

The two congressmen that support Bernie are some kind of saints, I suppose. You'd better check which on of us is living in fantasyland.

If Bernie could have gotten at least a third of the support that Hillary has, you would have a more credible argument.

Anyway, we probably won't get anywhere with this until something more dramatic happens in the campaigns.

Nice talking with you. Good night

[senz]

67. Hey, I still like Sherrod Brown, et. al. just as much as I used to

but I know what they are up against.

What you can't seem to face is that very, very wealthy individuals, and the corporations that support them, are now in control of our government. And Hillary is squarely in their pocket.

But Bernie isn't.

Our nation, and the world, changed in the 1980s with Reaganomics. The old rules no longer apply.

[gordyfl]

133. Congress Approval Rating

"Hill has the overwhelming backing of Democrats in congress."

With Congress approval rating, I wouldn't put too much weight on that.

[oasis]

137. Put what weight YOU wish, individual congress folk each

have a personal relationship with their own constituencies. It's the average Joe on the street who views congress as a whole a useless entity.

[erronis]

100. Snide fits you very well. Goes along with the upper-crust sentiments.

If we called her Hil or Hilarious would you make another snide comment?

But "Mark" for "Martin" is totally OK?

I've been a democrat since before you were born but I'm thinking this party as a whole smells from internal rot.

[oasis]

121. "I've been a (d)emocrat since before you were born"

Congrats to you for that. Btw, Mark for Martin would be an honest mistake in everday exchanges
everywhere. Not as rare as a lifelong Democrat who proudly uses a small "d".

Perhaps the Democratic Party "smells" so bad to you that not using a capital "D" is your personal way of demoting it.

[Major Hogwash]

25. He said . . to 8 million people.

Yeah, I'm sure they're real interested in her fucking opinions now.

[oasis]

32. They'll come to a mutual understanding with Hill's campaign, but it's no go

on the original MoveON plan. These are all adults we're talking about.

[INdemo]

24. Do hillary supporters just have an answer for everything or are

all their answers scripted by the campaign?.I would probably think it would be the latter. Remember those Clinton 'shills"
we discussed earlier.

Hell yes she she snubbed Move On..Is she afraid she will offend her corporate donors? Think so.

[rhett o rick]

94. LOL. Really? Well it might not be personal, because we know she doesn't like

debates. Who can blame her. She has used up her talking points and she runs the risk of actually saying how she feels about the plight of the 99%. But I think she has decided to give up on winning over the Progressives in the Party. They can see right thru her rhetoric. Medical marijuana needs more study. LOL. That's a great non-stance. Her friends in the for-profit prison industry wouldn't like her to come out favoring marijuana use even if it helped alleviate chronic pain.

[Beacool]

15. In 2008 Hillary stood up and spoke on behalf of MoveOn.

Giuliani, who was the GOP front runner at the time, took out a full page ad in the NYT to disparage her. Obama stayed out of the fray. Who did MoveOn endorse? Obama.

Therefore, why would she even bother going to this forum? They'll probably endorse Sanders anyway.

[DonCoquixote]

16. so, was endorsing Obama

in 2008 a reaosn to snub them now. Be Careful, you will need those Obama voters.

[Beacool]

17. This is about MoveOn, not Obama.

As for Obama voters, just like most Hillary supporters did in 2008, I expect them to vote for the Democratic nominee.

[Ken Burch]

40. Which you can't just assume will be HRC. n/t.

[sufrommich]

87. Is this you?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=324893

[ColesCountyDem]

90. *cough, cough*

[ColesCountyDem]

88. ...

[jfern]

19. She just snubbed a group with 7 million members that was created to help her husband

That's a pretty big fuck you there.

[Floyd Steinberg]

22. Yup. MoveOn won't forgive Clinton for this.

They were created to help "move on" the Repubicans from its impeachment proceedings. It's now time to move on from Clinton entirely to someone else.

[MisterP]

26. oh yeah, punishing loyalty always works out

[Segami]

28. And now, a word from the DNC Chair DWS....

D Wasserman Schultz ?@DWStweets 5h5 hours ago

.@MoveOn's presidential forum asks Democratic presidential candidates thought-proving questions:

http://2016forum.moveon.org/ Be sure to watch!

[Betty Karlson]

82. "thought-proving questions?" Has DINO-Debbie completely lost it?

If you don't know the difference between proving something and provoking something, maybe it's time to resign already, you biased spoiler.

[rhett o rick]

119. Hell no. She will be greatly rewarded for her bias if HRC is elected.

Corruption in the DEmocratic Party Leadership.

[erronis]

103. Darn, I thought someone would comment on how nice those teased frills look.

It's amazing how people will fall for someone that has a regular (usually white) face and an expensive-looking hair-do.

Must be someone that knows something...

Unlike BS who pokes at his fly-away hair and then just tells us how he thinks. No politicking. Just reality.

ps: I just realized that some would think that I'm talking about HRC's do-of-the-day. Actually I was commenting about DWS's beautiful locks and her steely smile.

[MissDeeds]

30. Yes it is n/t

[Beacool]

49. This group endorsed Obama in 2008.

Why should she feel any loyalty to them?

[Politicalboi]

59. It makes her look like a sore loser

Hillary needs to move on. She could have had the chance to speak and tell her message, but hard feeling got in the way. Is this how she would handle a crisis?

[senz]

61. You just admitted that it's all about "her."

Not about liberal/Democratic voters, not about what one might consider her constituency, if she were a "normal" Democrat. Of course, we both know that her true constituency is the Big Banks, the oligarchs, the 1% -- so why should she even pretend?

You also admitted that you know she's thin-skinned and vengeful.

[Beacool]

70. I'm not admitting to any such thing.

I don't know what was on Hillary's schedule. I gave my opinion, not hers. I'm not her spokesperson.

[Vincardog]

128. This was her chance to debate other democrats running for the same job she is. Shouldn't she want

to address a few million voters? She could explain how her policies would help them, and why they should vote for HER!

[George II]

23. There are events going on just about every day in a dozen places....

....she can't be at or participate in more than one place at any one time.

She's a lot more sought after than Sanders, who has plenty of time on his hands to "show up" for these video chats.

This is simply more Clinton-bashing.

[Duckhunter935]

41. Yes, another fundraiser

From rich donors

[A Simple Game]

124. You do know that Bernie has a day job, don't you?

She may be sought but is rarely found by the masses.

[Jester Messiah]

27. Well, that's gratitude for you.

Maybe she's trying to shore up the narrative that she won't be beholden to her megacorp donors.

[Kalidurga]

31. MoveOn endorsed Obama in 2008

seems that they know something we don't.

[EndElectoral]

43. Today's action by her should insure that endorsement again.

[azurnoir]

37. I'll bet she did at that

[EndElectoral]

42. A lot of Progressives to risk alienating. Going to need a lot of independents to make up for it.

[Segami]

51. Didn't she say....

"..I'm A Progressive Who Likes To Get Things Done..."

Sure, sure you do,...a real progressive......who doesn't attend ANY grassroot progressive Forums......my count tells me that Hillary the progressive has snubbed 3 forums so far......

[EndElectoral]

54. I believe she's evolved on the issue since that remark.

[murielm99]

44. Good for her.

I was a charter member of MoveOn. Then they endorsed a Presidential candidate. As soon as they did that, they lost my support. I did not feel it was the role of MoveOn to endorse ANY candidate. I quit. I have never looked back.

[Doctor_J]

47. She has stopped pretending to be a liberal

Although a few of her more demented supporters still believe it.

[JTFrog]

53. And a few of her more demented detractors will always foam at the mouth

and spill the most vile of hyperbole from their fingertips.

[SoapBox]

48. Maybe she was.....

Having a private $33,000 a plate meeting...or she was "listening" to a hand picked little group...or maybe she was working up a War measure...or...giving a speech for that $200,000 fee...or...

Oh heck, lots of things she could have been doing instead of dealing with this bunch of little people.

[SandersDem]

50. What is she afraid of?

It seems she did just fine in the first debate. The second one, not so much because um 9/11.

[Raine1967]

52. This really disappoints me.

MoveOn was born to push back the conservatives that wanted to impeach President Clinton. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MoveOn.org

[PoliticalMalcontent]

58. Great clip from Meet The Press

Last edited Wed Nov 25, 2015, 07:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Here's the clip of Hillary in 2008 bashing MoveOn.org after losing their endorsement. Contrast that with Hillary in 2007 courting MoveOn.org's endorsement.

2007 (Seeking endorsement):
"You've been asking the tough questions. ... You've been refusing to back down when any of us in political leadership are not living up to the standards that we should set for ourselves ... I think you have helped to change the face of American politics for the better—both online, and in the corridors of power."

2008 (Post-Obama endorsement):
"We have been less successful in caucuses because it brings out the activist base of the Democratic Party. Moveon.org didn't want us to go into Afganistan. I mean, that's what we're dealing with. And they turn out in great numbers. And you know, they are very driven by their view of our positions, and it's primarily national security and foreign policy that drives them. I don't agree with them. They know I don't agree with them. So they flood into these caucuses and they dominate them and really intimidate people who actually show up to support me."

[BeanMusical]

64. Kick and R

She's pathetic.

[hay rick]

69. Pity.

I suppose she looked at it as a choice between competing where she knew she was going to lose or taking heat for snubbing a preeminent liberal organization. That's not a particularly difficult choice for someone who appears to want to position herself in the general election as a moderate on domestic issues and a hawk in foreign policy. Also, staying out of the MoveOn forum allows her to parrot Sanders' position on some issues (TPP, for example) without getting pinned down to specifics that would inconvenience her in the future.

My concern is that she is earning the indifference of the activist base of the Democratic Party. If they are like me, they will vote for her but not work for her. She will get the same kind of "lesser evil" support that Charley Crist got in his race for governor last year. That doesn't mean she's doomed. Crist ran an incompetent campaign in a low turnout year and still came within 64,000 votes (1%) of victory.

[cantbeserious]

72. HRC Is A Pawn Of the Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks That Pay For Her Campaign - HRC Is Not

A Progressive.

[ericson00]

74. good! because frankly, MoveOn not only lacks relevance today

and MoveOn does harbor a lot of the people who deny Islamist Jihadism and promote anti-Israel hate. They're toxic to the Democratic Party and to the country.

[murielm99]

95. I agree.

They do lack relevance. Years ago, when Internet activism was new, they were great. Now we are finding new ways to protest and to express ourselves.

[SunSeeker]

132. Indeed. They ran cringe-worthy ads in 2008.

Last edited Wed Nov 25, 2015, 11:17 PM - Edit history (1)

Then there was that embarrassing incident where a moveon.org member bit a man's finger tip off at a healthcare reform rally.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/deadlineusa/2009/sep/04/healthcare-rally-finger-bitten

The days of relevance for Moveon.org have come and gone. Their original claim to fame was online petitions. Now everyone does that. I doubt they actually still have 8 million actual active members after stuff like this:

On June 17, 2008, MoveOn emailed its members stating that it had produced "the most effective TV ad we've ever created."[21]The ad depicts a mother telling Republican and former presidential nominee John McCain that she will not let him use her infant son, Alex, as a soldier in the war in Iraq. Subsequent to the ad's release, Jon Stewart, host of The Daily Show, "praised" MoveOn for "10 years of making even people who agree with you cringe."[22] New York Times op/ed contributor Bill Kristol criticized the ad in an essay, including pointing to the fact that the "United States has an all-volunteer Army. Alex won’t be drafted, and his mommy can’t enlist him. He can decide when he’s an adult whether he wants to serve."[23]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MoveOn.org

It's pretty sad when even an ass like Bill Kristol can make you sound stupid.

[ericson00]

135. even tho I will vote for Hillary, the stuff in your post

is one of the things I used to call the campaign and threaten them on my vote if they don't marginalize MoveOn. The Bush era is gone, and actually, while MoveOn had a lot of grassroots guys in 2008, they may have hurt Kerry's image in 2004 indirectly as their acts made those who didn't like Bush all look like idiots, which is why I think enough Americans thought him weak on terror enough to re-elect Bush.

[SunSeeker]

136. Seems an endorsement from Moveon.org would probably hurt more than help in the GE.

[gwheezie]

75. I can live without move on

I know progressives like that group but at times they are pretty inaccurate.

[AtomicKitten]

77. And they/we will snub her at the ballot box.

[merrily]

78. Life's little ironies:

History
Main article: History of MoveOn.org

MoveOn started in 1998 as an e-mail group, MoveOn.org, created by software entrepreneurs Joan Blades and Wes Boyd, the married cofounders of Berkeley Systems. They started by passing around a petition asking Congress to "censure President Clinton and move on", as opposed to impeaching him. The petition, passed around by word of mouth, gathered half a million signatures but did not dissuade Congress from impeaching the President.[4] The couple went on to start similar campaigns calling for arms inspections rather than an invasion of Iraq, and campaign finance reform.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MoveOn.org

[Betty Karlson]

81. Clinton: so self-centred that she is hellbent on throwing the election to the GOP.

This politician, though accomplished and gifted with remarkable strength, is just not qualified to lead the nation, the party, or anything else that through her actions is likely to benefit the GOP.

[bvar22]

92. It has become obvious that the Clinton Wing (3rd Way)...

...would prefer a Business "friendly" Republican to win instead of a real, Pro-LABOR Democrat who represents Americans who Work for a Living.
This was never MORE clear than their interference in the local Arkansas Democratic Primary of 2010.

The Arkansas Democratic Primary of 2010 was a heart breaking eye opener for the Grass Roots and Organized LABOR. We were given a Look Behind the Curtain,
and it wasn't very pretty.

[font size=3]We did EVERYTHING right in Arkansas in 2010.
We did EXACTLY what the White House asked us to do to "give the President Progressives in Congress that would work with him."[/font]

We organized and supported Democratic Lt Governor Bill Halter, the Pro-LABOR/ Pro-Health Care challenger to DINO Obstructionist Blanche Lincoln's Senate seat.
Halter was:

* Polling BETTER against the Republicans in the General,

*was popular in Arkansas in his OWN right,

*had an Up & Running Political machine,

* had a track record of winning elections (Lt. Governor)

*Had the full backing of Organized LABOR and The Grass Roots activists

*was handing Blanche her Anti-LABOR ass

...and we were WINNING!

Guess what happened.

The White House stepped in at the last minute to save Blanche's failing primary campaign with an Oval Office Endorsement of The Wicked Witch that Wrecked the Obama Agenda who was actually campaigning at that time as the one who had killed the Public Option!!!

Adding insult to injury, the White House sent Bill Clinton back to Arkansas on a state-wide Campaign/Fund Raising Tour for Blanche,
focusing on the areas with high Black Populations, and bashing Organized LABOR and "Liberals" at every opportunity.

For those of us who had worked hard to give President Obama Progressive Democrats who would work with him, it was especially difficult to watch his smiling Oval Office Endorsement for DINO Blanche Lincoln which played 24/7 on Arkansas TV the week before the runoff Primary election.

White House steps in to rescue Lincoln’s Primary Campaign in Arkansas

"So what did the Democratic Party establishment do when a Senator who allegedly impedes their agenda faced a primary challenger who would be more supportive of that agenda? They engaged in full-scale efforts to support Blanche Lincoln.

* Bill Clinton traveled to Arkansas to urge loyal Democrats to vote for her, bashing liberal groups for good measure.

*Obama recorded an ad for Lincoln which, among other things, were used to tell African-American primary voters that they should vote for her because she works for their interests.

*The entire Party infrastructure lent its support and resources to Lincoln — a Senator who supposedly prevents Democrats from doing all sorts of Wonderful, Progressive Things which they so wish they could do but just don’t have the votes for.

<snip>

What happened in this race also gives the lie to the insufferable excuse we’ve been hearing for the last 18 months from countless Obama defenders: namely, if the Senate doesn’t have 60 votes to pass good legislation, it’s not Obama’s fault because he has no leverage over these conservative Senators. It was always obvious what an absurd joke that claim was; the very idea of The Impotent, Helpless President, presiding over a vast government and party apparatus, was laughable. But now, in light of Arkansas, nobody should ever be willing to utter that again with a straight face.

Back when Lincoln was threatening to filibuster health care if it included a public option, the White House could obviously have said to her: if you don’t support a public option, not only will we not support your re-election bid, but we’ll support a primary challenger against you. Obama’s support for Lincoln did not merely help; it was arguably decisive, as The Washington Post documented today:"

<much more>

http://www.salon.com/2010/06/10/lincoln_6/

After the White House and Party Leadership had spent a truck full of money torpedoing the Primary challenge of a Pro-LABOR Democrat for Lincoln's Senate seat, the Party support for Lincoln evaporated for the General Election, and as EVERYBODY had predicted, Lincoln lost badly giving that Senate seat to a Republican virtually uncontested in the General Election.

Don't you find it "interesting" that the Party Establishment and conservative Power Brokers would spend all that money in a Democratic Primary to make sure that their candidate won, and then leave Their Winner dangling without support in the General Election?

Many Grass Roots Activists working for a better government concluded that the current Democratic Party Leadership preferred to GIVE this Senate Seat to a Big Business Republican rather than taking the risk that a Pro-LABOR Democrat might win it, and it was difficult to argue with them.
This was greatly reinforced by the Insults & Ridicule to LABOR & The Grass Roots from the White House after their Primary "victory" over Organized LABOR & the Grass Roots in the Arkansas Democratic Primary.

When the supporters of Pro-LABOR Lt Gov Bill Halter asked the White House WHY they had chosen to throw their full support behind Lincoln at the last minute, rescuing her failing campaign, the only answer was ridicule and insults.

Ed Schultz sums up my feeling perfectly in the following clip.
http://crooksandliars.com/heather/ed-schultz-if-it-wasnt-labor-barack-obama-

So what did the White House gain by Beating Down Labor and the Grass Roots in the Arkansas Democratic Primary?
We don't know.
The White House has never responded to our questions with an explanation, only insults.
To date, the White House has refused to answer our questions,
or issue an apology for their taunts and ridicule of Organized LABOR and the Grass Roots in the Arkansas Democratic Primary.

[ibegurpard]

101. what did they get?

Cover for continuing to push right-wing policy. "We just can't get anything through this obstructionist congress"...
He got TPP fasttrack approval through didn't he?

[Betty Karlson]

112. I remember the Lincoln debacle. It was horrible and eye-opening as you say.

You did well to remind us that the woman who killed single payer health care back then was less electable than the candidate who favoured it. It's almost as if history was trying to teach us something...

[emsimon33]

85. And the lack of passion from the base will be her downfall!

How very petty and how very telling. Why would anyone want such a vindictive person as president?

[Snotcicles]

93. Thom Hartmann just mentioned this thread on his show. nt

[stupidicus]

97. the optics alone are bad here

but to think she skipped out likely and simply because they don't support her, well, that's just the kinda vindictiveness, etc, that defines the character behind the mask

[Bubzer]

98. Her snub is going to cost her.

[gordyfl]

108. A Good Strategy

Perhaps not so much. I see it as a calculated strategy by her campaign staff. These people are professionals. They crunch the numbers.

The Progressive Wing of the Democratic Party will feel slighted, but come the general election, I'm sure her campaign staff anticipates having their support in the general election.

How many progressives do you think will not vote in the 2016 general elections because they were snubbed? Probably a small number.

How many will still be upset over Hillary avoiding these Forums - enough to skip over her name on the ballot? Probably not enough to affect the outcome.

How many will vote Republican? More like nill.

The campaign strategists assume most progressives, will hold their nose and vote for Hillary. For Hillary that spells victory.

Let's hope we can avoid all this and get Bernie the nomination.


http://assets.amuniversal.com/29cb0c205b76013312d4005056a9545d

[Bubzer]

109. She's had good strategists before that have steered her wrong. I think this is one of those times.

It might not have a huge impact, but I do think it could cost her some of the undecided independent vote.

[bvar22]

113. Its nice to know that the Hillary Campaign feels that they can Throw Away thousands of votes.

Yes.
That is good politics......to get the other guy elected.

I pray Hillary continues to snub activist groups.
Who wants their help anyway?

I guess Hillary is unaware that it is the ACTIVISTS that do the heavy work in GOTV.
Admittedly, the workers are hard to see from a lofty throne with a nose in the air.

I applaud the arrogance, and pray for it to continue.

[Stonepounder]

107. Holy mackerel!

I don't freaking believe it. It used to be that DU was a w arm and welcoming place where Democrats could come together and DISCUSS. Reading through the comments on this thread it sounds more like a Second Grade class going "Did Too!", "Did Not", "Yeah, well my dad can lick your dad!"

There are folks who like Bernie, there are folks who like Hillary, and a few who even like O'Mally. That's cool. But let's discuss the candidates, not sound like whiny children. And that's what this entire list of comments sounds like. <sigh> Is there anywhere on the web I can go and find adults discussing the pro's and con's of the candidates, rather than a 'did too' 'did not' sort of argument?

[lovemydog]

120. You found a like-minded soul here.

There's plenty of people here who share your views. I'm one. There's a bunch of others. You just have to find them and keep posting to them. There's wonderful groups here at DU too, that you might want to check out.

On this subject, I can understand it from both sides. I can understand move.on not being too pleased that Hillary isn't joining their debate. It was started to help combat her husband's impeachment. They'd probably like their members to hear her debate.

On the other hand, I can understand Hillary saying that some of her supporters have been harassed and intimidated by some of the more passionate and/or hateful members of that group. And she's probably gearing up for the general election now and would prefer not to be too associated with it.

So it's no big surprise to me. Some folks from both points of view appear to have great difficulty understanding each other's point of view.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your loved ones.

[Stonepounder]

134. Good heavens. A like-minded soul AND a dog lover! :-) n/t

[Gman]

118. Kudos to Hillary

I quit sending them money in 08 when they endorsed Obama. haven't send one penny more since.

Moveon will be with her next November. It's not like they have a choice. So this is no big deal.

[bvf]

122. That's exactly what we need in a candidate!

One who effectively says, "Fuck you, assholes--I'm your only choice."

No doubt that's how Clinton regards the vast majority of her base. They know it, but can't admit it.

[ejbr]

123. +1 n/t

[Gman]

129. If they're her base

Why aren't they supporting her?

[whereisjustice]

131. Hillary paid for this election, she's entitled to it. She owns the Democratic Party we are her

employees.

Hillary tells us what's good for us.

Like this:

We don't need no freaking minimum wage increase!

If you aren't kissing Wall Street's ass everyday, the terrorists win!

Poor people are simply taking advantage of a culture of dependency!

We need more prisons and tough on crime changes to the law!

Marriage is between a man and a woman!

War is peace. Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen have been liberated by violence, now Democracy will bloom!

Jesus.

If all the Hillary haters and radical lefties out there would be more Repbulican-like, then the Democratic Party wouldn't be seen as liberal.

Good luck Debbie and Hillary - you have your hands full with these leftists!

Got it?

Good. Now, get out the vote!

[sabrina 1]

138. There are so many other groups now. Colorofchange.org eg, is having enormous influence on local

elections AND on the minority vote. I love that Hillary's campaign is so out of touch with today's world. Shhhh, leave them to their old establishment politics.

And let's just keep moving forward, we the people are going to decide this election.

Go Bernie, the candidate of the PEOPLE!