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Sun Nov 8, 2015, 11:37 PM

Hillary fans sure do love red herrings

The latest one with Sanders and whether or not he wanted a primary challenge.



Sanders fans should put this everytime a Hillary fan throws a red herring.

111 replies, 5782 views

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Reply Hillary fans sure do love red herrings (Original post)
AZ Progressive Nov 2015 OP
Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #1
ish of the hammer Nov 2015 #21
Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #27
ish of the hammer Nov 2015 #92
Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #93
ish of the hammer Nov 2015 #95
Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #96
ish of the hammer Nov 2015 #97
Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #98
ish of the hammer Nov 2015 #108
ish of the hammer Nov 2015 #111
Gothmog Nov 2015 #2
Scootaloo Nov 2015 #10
bravenak Nov 2015 #24
Scootaloo Nov 2015 #31
bravenak Nov 2015 #32
Scootaloo Nov 2015 #33
bravenak Nov 2015 #34
Scootaloo Nov 2015 #35
bravenak Nov 2015 #36
Scootaloo Nov 2015 #37
bravenak Nov 2015 #38
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #39
bravenak Nov 2015 #40
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #42
bravenak Nov 2015 #44
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #46
bravenak Nov 2015 #47
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #52
bravenak Nov 2015 #60
Scootaloo Nov 2015 #43
bravenak Nov 2015 #45
Scootaloo Nov 2015 #48
bravenak Nov 2015 #49
Scootaloo Nov 2015 #51
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #53
bravenak Nov 2015 #54
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #57
bravenak Nov 2015 #59
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #76
bravenak Nov 2015 #78
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #80
bravenak Nov 2015 #82
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #83
bravenak Nov 2015 #84
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #87
bravenak Nov 2015 #88
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #50
bravenak Nov 2015 #58
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #64
bravenak Nov 2015 #65
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #67
Kentonio Nov 2015 #99
bravenak Nov 2015 #100
Kentonio Nov 2015 #102
bravenak Nov 2015 #103
Kentonio Nov 2015 #104
bravenak Nov 2015 #105
Kentonio Nov 2015 #107
JDPriestly Nov 2015 #61
bravenak Nov 2015 #66
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #68
bravenak Nov 2015 #71
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #72
bravenak Nov 2015 #74
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #75
bravenak Nov 2015 #77
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #79
bravenak Nov 2015 #81
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #85
bravenak Nov 2015 #86
DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2015 #90
bravenak Nov 2015 #91
jfern Nov 2015 #3
enid602 Nov 2015 #23
JaneyVee Nov 2015 #4
misterhighwasted Nov 2015 #7
artislife Nov 2015 #18
bravenak Nov 2015 #25
Live and Learn Nov 2015 #55
beam me up scottie Nov 2015 #5
melman Nov 2015 #70
beam me up scottie Nov 2015 #73
Renew Deal Nov 2015 #6
Post removed Nov 2015 #11
Renew Deal Nov 2015 #12
jeff47 Nov 2015 #14
beam me up scottie Nov 2015 #22
artislife Nov 2015 #19
Beartracks Nov 2015 #26
artislife Nov 2015 #29
HerbChestnut Nov 2015 #8
Beartracks Nov 2015 #28
Art_from_Ark Nov 2015 #30
Dem2 Nov 2015 #9
cwydro Nov 2015 #13
jeff47 Nov 2015 #15
cwydro Nov 2015 #16
jeff47 Nov 2015 #17
one_voice Nov 2015 #20
azurnoir Nov 2015 #41
senz Nov 2015 #56
Buzz cook Nov 2015 #62
Betty Karlson Nov 2015 #63
treestar Nov 2015 #69
rock Nov 2015 #89
UglyGreed Nov 2015 #94
riversedge Nov 2015 #101
Dem2 Nov 2015 #106
LoveIsNow Nov 2015 #109
Bernblu Nov 2015 #110

Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Sun Nov 8, 2015, 11:39 PM

1. He said it, it is his words, if a red herring then it belongs to Sanders

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 01:05 AM

21. Is it a red herring?

Whats wrong with a primary? Isn't that what we are doing now? Your candidate discusses policies, my candidate discusses policies and every body gets to choose which they prefer. Ain't that the way its supposed to work?

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Response to ish of the hammer (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 01:29 AM

27. I did not bring up the red herring, it was in the op.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #27)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:31 AM

92. you commented and I responded to your comment-

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Response to ish of the hammer (Reply #92)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 11:32 AM

93. I don't know, ask the person who posted the op.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #93)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 12:46 PM

95. "red herrings" are distractions put out to change the subject of the discussion at hand-

but if we are talking about "red herrings" than who brought it up? Clinton supporters did - somehow suggesting a desire for an
actual primary is a bad thing. so Sanders suggested an actual primary might be a good thing and your comment is that he owns it
is a non-sequitur. He never denied that he said it. It's a "red herring" because we are not talking about Clinton's or Sanders' positions, but rather whether or not he should have suggested a primary 5 years ago. and really, who cares?

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Response to ish of the hammer (Reply #95)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 01:23 PM

96. Oh, Clinton supporters brought this up? Since some have denied what Sanders said may have a problem

with this post. If Sanders said it then he owns his statements.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #96)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 02:21 PM

97. He does own it. It's your problem if you think he was wrong.

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Response to ish of the hammer (Reply #97)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 02:31 PM

98. I don't have a problem, I read the first time and I read the second time. I am entitled to my

opinion just as you are.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #98)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 03:00 PM

108. of course you are! what is your opinion?

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #98)

Tue Nov 10, 2015, 12:58 AM

111. so I'll ask again-

Is complaining about Sanders wanting someone to primary Obama a "red herring"? Inquiring minds want to know YOUR opinion.

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Sun Nov 8, 2015, 11:41 PM

2. Democrats who supported President Obama will find this issue to relevant

Good luck in selling the concept that Sanders fought to primary President Obama to African American voters. Sanders is getting 8% of the African American vote in South Carolina. This issue will not help win them over.

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 12:00 AM

10. You're right!

 

Good luck in selling the concept that Sanders fought to primary President Obama to African American voters.


African Americans aren't remotely dumb enough to buy an easily disprovable claim such as "Sanders fought to Primary President Obama." Because, as you know, and as I know, and as they know, he did no such thing

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #10)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 01:24 AM

24. But we know he damn sure thought it was a good idea!!

 

Our minds fill in the blanks as to WHY. We do not care what he says the reason was. And looking at the BLM thing this Summer, why do you think we think he said it would be a good idea? Many of us believe him. Most of the rest of us wont, since they do not follow politics. It would be up to the ones who do (PEOPLE LIKE ME) to straighten them out on their notions. We have no reason to correct the record on Bernie. Not after the way we have been 'corrected' so much by his grassroots. (I WILL NOT CORRECT ANYTHING, NOT MY JOB)

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Response to bravenak (Reply #24)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 02:56 AM

31. There's that "we" again.

 

I think the word you want is "I"?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #31)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 03:01 AM

32. We is correct. Look at the polls. You think I talk so much here and don't talk to black folks

 

elsewhere? Come ON Scoot. I predicted this to You. Shit. Remember? It was like a couple months ago. Ain't no damn reason for blacks to not split unless they have REASON. Reason one; clintons built relationships, two; Bernie seems anti Obama, three; his base sounds anti Obama, four; we are anti anti Obama, etc.

Now I said be nice to black folks and try to lure us away else hillary + dashiki + cha cha slide = whitehouse.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #32)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 03:21 AM

33. And I remember how you told me that you had just "decided" what I thought about stuff

 

It was all wrong, of course. But still, you had decided what i thought, and so you felt you could tell me what I thought, and if I said you were wrong, well, I was the one who was wrong.

So now you're trying to tell me that 42 million people all exactly agree with you.

The word you want is "I."

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #33)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 03:42 AM

34. The word is we. Keep thinking I was just bullshitting.

 

I did not at the time say you were wrong or right. Just that I was right. And to watch them and not get caught up cause THEY were wrong. As usual.
Seriously. Go read some black publications and see if you don't see people who have not much problem with Bernie policy wise, but just cannot take the nonsense.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #34)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 03:51 AM

35. You speak for yourself. The word for that is "I"

 

Your advice is kind of funny, given your current circumstance.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #35)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 03:52 AM

36. We it is. Sorry. Just telling you like it is. It ain't just me.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #36)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:01 AM

37. Ah yes, that phrase, "telling it like it is"

 

Funny how often that comes up when people are trying to convince others that thier personal opinion is actually indisputable fact.

Indisputable fact is that you don't speak for 42 million people. math, you know?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #37)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:04 AM

38. Yeah Scoot. We.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #38)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:14 AM

39. Scootaloo is right and I see you are still grave dancing.

Really disappointed to see that.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #39)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:15 AM

40. Scoot has no idea how black folks will vote.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #40)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:22 AM

42. Neither do you. nt

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #42)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:28 AM

44. Yes I do. Hillary. They will mostly go for Hillary.nt

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #44)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:30 AM

46. Mostly huh? We will see.

It ain't over till it's over.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #46)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:33 AM

47. We will see his polls continue to stay the same until his grassroots realizes he has a black problem

 

If they want to help him, they will drop the vinegar and invest in honey.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #47)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:46 AM

52. So many things wrong with that assumption, I don't even know where to start. nt

Last edited Mon Nov 9, 2015, 05:32 AM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #52)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 05:02 AM

60. Humans want respect.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #40)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:27 AM

43. Never claimed I do.

 

Y'see, I don't think black people are monolithic. I certainly don't think the politics and opinions of 42 million people are accurately and 100% represented by yourself.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #43)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:29 AM

45. Most will go Hillary. Because of the reasons I stated.nt

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #45)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:40 AM

48. Maybe. I for one think it makes more sense to not take people for granted, though.

 

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #48)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:41 AM

49. Like Bernie did.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #49)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:43 AM

51. No. As you are doing.

 

What with your assumption that you get to talk for everyone, and all that.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #49)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:46 AM

53. When did Bernie do that? nt

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #53)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:50 AM

54. He thought WE would come to HIM. Cause he marched.nt

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #54)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:55 AM

57. Well, damn him for marching then. What the hell was he thinking trying to support the rights of

those that didn't have many? Crucify HIM... oops, when did he ever refer to himself as a God like, 'HIM' and when did he ever say that (ever presumptuous) 'we' would come to 'HIM'.

I think you are actually bordering on slanderous there.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #57)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 05:01 AM

59. Why should we come to him? Why? Who is he that we should come to HIM?

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #59)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:49 AM

76. Why should 'you' go to her? Why? Who is the she that 'you' should go to HER? nt

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #76)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:50 AM

78. We are already there. She supports Obama. We are the most reliable Obama voting demigraphic.

 

It's not even like we have to do anything. She is the default.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #78)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 08:03 AM

80. She ran against Obama!!!!

Default?? "Not even like 'we' have to do anything..."

Are you claiming you are voting for her because it is the easiest thing to do? You really have to leave the 'We" off on that one because proclaiming you are voting for her because it is the easy and lazy thing to do is well kind of a sick and untrue stereotype.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #80)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 08:07 AM

82. Not when he was already PRESIDENT! That is the difference.

 

She supported him.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #82)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 08:16 AM

83. Because she knew she would lose.

That is the only difference, Get real, do you really think she ever like Obama? Look at her campaign back them. I know you were young but there are records and for you to be (at the very least pretending to) leading the AA vote, you should be informed.

I am equally sure, your being so young, is playing a great role in your refusal to even acknowledge history as important, but it really is and you do yourself a great disservice by ignoring it.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #83)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 08:26 AM

84. It doesn't matter whether she genuinely likes him. She supported him after he beat her.

 

Loyalty. Respect. It matters in the black community. And don't pull that young stuff on me. I done lived many lives in this 34 years. Experienced many things that women twice my age have not gone through. I understand how people operate. How they do things. What makes them tick. It's my thing. I predict behaiviour all the time. Rarely wrong. Boy are people emotional creatures. The analytic types get frustrated with me and society at large, quite frankly. Everything has rules for them, no room for human error or human emotion or human behaiviour. Trips me out.

Why they think people are gonna do things based on what they want them to do things for I do not know. They get so frustrated. They think it is not fair. And it isn't. Because it's life and life is fucked up sometimes.

I think I'm gonna let you guys argue it out by yourselves. Last time I made predictions here everybody got so pissed. Pissed already now too. May as well just let it be.

If there is anything I have educated myself on it is the African American experience in the USA. I get my people. I understand why we do what we do. I am always surprised when people are surprised because I guess I figured that they studied it too. Maybe they were not obsessed like I am with black history. Consumed by it. Angry about it. Resigned to it. Anywhoo, you guys have fun. All the answers on how to be more appealing are in my posts this past few weeks. Sugar not vinegar.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #84)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 08:48 AM

87. Loyalty and respect? You mean after he gave her the SOS position, right?

Because? She didn't have both the P and VP killed off so she could take over? I guess you could call that loyalty and respect. Because, she didn't run against him when she knew she would lose? I would call that fear.

And 34 is young, trust me. No matter how many lives you have gone through at that age you will be going through many more. And you will learn that those you think you understand, you don't.

It comes down to the choice of voting for selfishly for oneself or morally right, If you really think supporting Hillary is the moral or selfish thing to do, then do it. But, if you don't have a lot of money or care about others and the future, I would rethink the choice.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #87)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 09:19 AM

88. Whose morals? We all have different standards of morality.

 

It depends on perspective. I'll let you know if I see Bernie getting it. Going to the community face to face.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #45)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:42 AM

50. Let's look at those reasons you gave.

Reason one; clintons built relationships - She sure has especially with corporations and Wall Street.

two; Bernie seems anti Obama - Not sure where you got that since he has voted for most of Obama's platforms and regularly caucauses with the Democrats.

three; his base sounds anti Obama - Pardon me. I am a big Obama supporter and have said repeatedly that he will go down as one of our greates Presidents. Doesn't mean someone couldn't do even better.

four; we are anti anti Obama - There you go with the ever presumptuous 'we' again. Plenty of people, including those of color, wish Obama had done some things differently. That doesn't make them anti-Obama, it makes them anti a few of his policy decisions. That means they don't worship the guy because he is mortal. If Bernie is elected and he makes policy decisions people disagree with (which he no doubt will) they will also complain about them. That is exactly as it should be and what free speech is about.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #50)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:59 AM

58. Okay, lets do.

 

1. Clinton built relationships with THE BLACK COMMUNITY. And We are not anti Wall Street. Or anti bank. Or anti capitalism. We are not that. So saying wall street to a young black male makes him think Gordon Gecko, and guess what, MOST ADMIRE HIM. Sick right? Yeah. Capitalists.

2. Obama. Bernie wanted Obama primaried. That is what the black bloggers are discussing. Nobody really likes it or cares why. Just that he did. Black and white issue. Obama over Bernie all day. Hillary as the default wins.

3. The peopke going after black votes online and in person.. Spend so much time saying how much BETTER Bernie is and how Obama is like a Republican. Sucks but, they do. Plus, if you google looking for bernie groups that discuss Obama, they are none too kind. Why would a black person join? They won't. That's why his poll numbers are low. Bernie groups out there that are big communities are so uninviting to blacks. I check them out myself. Even reddit is just a cess pool and that is very big with Bernie peeps and young people.

4. They spend too much time complaining about a man all of us place up there with MLK. It is like beating ip on a living breathibg MLK. We sideye it and they just yell that it's about policy!!! We do not care. We do not join those groups. You and they or whomever can free speech all you want but we can hear tgat and judge and go AWAY. Looking around, I do not see the anti obama stuff drawing black voters. At all.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #58)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 05:43 AM

64. Okay here we go point by point again:

1: Gordon Gecko????? So you are now claiming that "THE BLACK COMMUNITY" (why are you shouting that?) mostly admires greed? I think you are wrong on that one and I think claiming that Gordon Gecko is an icon for 'the community' to be downright disrespectful of 'the community'.

2. Running against someone in a primary is not disrespectful, it is the Democratic way. If anyone thinks they can do a better job than the current President and can win, they have not only the option but actually the obligation to run. Bernie didn't run then and I suspect that was because he thought Obama was about the best we could have at the time. He obviously doesn't think Hillary will be a fit replacement and so decided to run this time. And I agree completely with him.

3. Not sure about Alaska, so your experience may differ, but in Los Angeles, I haven't seen that at all. People of all colors seem to love Bernie here.

4. I basically answered that above but I will add that I really don't see many Bernie supporters as being anti-Obama. In fact, many of them were avid Obama supporters and still are. You might also want to check out the current crowd you hang out with and see how many of them were actually Obama supporters previously.

By the way, at the same time Bernie was marching with and supporting MLK, Hillary was backing Goldwater who opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Please do yourself a favor and read up on Goldwater.


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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #64)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 05:57 AM

65. Ha!

 

1. Not saying he is an icon. Just not somebody they want to take down. Look at occupy wall street. Did you notice how there were not many blacks? I mean, don't get me wrong, there were some there, just not many. I never used the word icon. That was you.

2. You may not think it was disrespectful, but that is you. You are talking about a group that has been here since the beginning if america but only had ONE president that resembles them. Yes we take it personally. Why vote FOR that guy who wanted to primary the FIRST Black President. Acting like that means nothing is strange, Imo.

3. I'm from Los Angeles. My family still lives there. I mentioned that my uncle has a church out there and they are going Hillary's way. Nice sized congregation. Plan on doing voter drives and driving folks to the polls. Where is Bernie on this? Much of our voter drives and assistance comes through souls to the polls. I know Hillary will be all over that, showing up. He needs to show up too.

4. I see them being anti obama. I look cause I expect it. Maybe you don't.

Hey. It is not 1964. None of that will matter in this election. I was born in 81. Do not feel like rehashing Goldwater or 1964 and basing my vote on that.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #65)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 06:11 AM

67. Okay:

1: Yes, I was a big supporter of Occupy and there were plenty of blacks. You must not have been paying attention if you didn't notice that.

2. I have no idea what you mean. Do you think we should treat Obama differently because he is 'black'? Did you ever get upset when any other sitting president was run against. And Bernie didn't even run. I really don't understand this objection. Anyone is free to tun during any election for whatever reason. That is the Democratic way.

3. Bernie has been here several times. I have seen him myself a couple of times. If you are looking solely for the soulful vote then I have no idea what Bernie is doing about that.

4. Perhaps that means you aren't giving them a chance. History is important and it can be repeated. You have no idea what you have missed or you might even feel a bit fortunate to be living today. But, that might change quickly if you don't pay attention. And you won't care anything about sexism or racism if the climate is gone.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #58)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 02:31 PM

99. You place Obama up there with MLK?

 

Sweet jesus..

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Response to Kentonio (Reply #99)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 02:32 PM

100. Damn straight. Many of us do. Are you shaming us?

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #100)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 02:37 PM

102. It feels more like you're shaming MLK quite frankly.

 

NO modern politician comes close to that comparison. The last one who might actually be able to carry it was Lincoln, and of course he paid for it with his life too.

Obama is a good man and his election was one of the most wonderful things to happen in my lifetime, for the barriers it broke down and the hope it brought. That doesn't mean he personally deserves the same plaudits as MLK though for goodness sake.

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Response to Kentonio (Reply #102)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 02:42 PM

103. That is your opinion. I can see him however I want. Without your permission. Mind yours. Not mine.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #103)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 02:48 PM

104. You can think whatever you like of course, it's a free country.

 

It appears you need to get used to the idea though that just as you have the freedom to speak however you chose, others have the freedom to disagree.

MLK knew he was going to die for what he was doing. It wasn't some vague possibility or rhetoric, he was watching the people around him killed and he accepted that the journey he was on would end with an assassins bullet. That's how much the cause was worth to him, and I just don't see how any politician today can be compared with a man willing to make that kind of sacrifice. That's not an insult to Obama, I'd be willing to bet anything you like that he wouldn't accept the comparison either.

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Response to Kentonio (Reply #104)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 02:49 PM

105. Do you think I need a lecture on Dr King from a white person on DU?

 

Can I not READ?

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Response to bravenak (Reply #105)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 02:51 PM

107. If you think Obama is comparable, then yes it seems you do.

 

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 05:04 AM

61. The question for us all and especially for African-Americans is "Are we better off now than we

were in 2008 when Obama was first elected?"

In many ways most of us are. Healthcare access for many is better. We are not losing as many jobs as we were when he was inaugurated. The banks appear to be in somewhat better shape although I am not certain about that.

But, in fact, African-Americans still face the same racism in their daily lives. I am not African-American, so I don't know if the racism declined thanks to his administration.

That is a question I would like to ask the African-Americans on DU.

Has racism decreased since Obama took office in 2009?

Have the problems with police persecution of African-Americans improved or worsened since Obama took office in 2009?

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #61)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 06:05 AM

66. Why do you get to decidd what is ESPECIALLY important for African Americans?

 

Why can we not decide for ourselves which issues are most important to us? Must you have a say?



Racism got worse because the left stopped being the vanguard. They stopped fighting it and relied on colorblind theories and paternalizing. They started blaming the black president for not fixing white people's racism and gave white people a pass, thereby infantilizing them. They give themselves passes on bad behaiviour and will pretend things did not happen. They feel like blacks owe them things, votes, accolades, parades...

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Response to bravenak (Reply #66)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 06:12 AM

68. Same reason you think you get to decide, maybe? nt

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #68)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 06:43 AM

71. I'm black. I can decide what is best for me.nt

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #71)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 06:47 AM

72. You finally got it, "I" is the correct pronoun to use in such context.

WTG, I am always rooting for you.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #72)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:43 AM

74. We always decide for ourselves.nt

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #74)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:46 AM

75. 'We' again? Could that suggest...hmm.

Let me just ask, Who is this 'we' you keep referring to?

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #75)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:49 AM

77. My demographic.nt

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #77)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 07:56 AM

79. And what exactly is that demographic?

I'm guessing it is a female with at least some AA heritage that is pretty well educated due in part to her (and other's) ancestors fighting to ensure opportunities for her. Is her life perfect due to their sacrifice? No, but nobody's is.

Should we keep fighting the good fight to improve lives or should we continue fighting each other and let the establishment win?

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #79)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 08:05 AM

81. I am a black High School drop-out.

 

There ya go. Ended my high school career in an inner city gang infested school. Spent a few years in nice white areas as well. Gifted programs. Meh.

Of all the people on here I and a few others have lived that life that people here discuss in academic terms.

If you want a script just pm me. Too much bad shit happened to just tell it.

Now, my ancestors? Grandma was an orphan, ten kids. Husband an undocumented immigrant, Spain. Deported. Denied SS for years due to being left out of the New Deal. Poverty until my mother was in her late twenties. She was a teenage mother. Her mother started when she got married at twelve. Nobody finished high school. I ged'd out to work to pay rent. Back in school now. Still easy. Whatevs. Did everything. Gangs. Whatever was going on.

There you go. Now you know. Not what you think. I am the first to not rely on Welfare and shit like that. And I won't. Die first. Can't go back to that shit. Ever. So I will finish school inlike all the rest. My dad might be proud if he hadn't Phillip Seymour Hoffman'd himself outta here when I was 15.

And so the struggle continues......

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Response to bravenak (Reply #81)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 08:30 AM

85. I am really sorry you have gone through so much.

Many others have gone through just as much as more, as hard as that is to believe. That is not a 'but' or a 'bite the bullet and pull yourself up by your bootstraps' speech but a real heartfelt I am sorry so many people have to endure so much pain' speech.

Far too many people are feeling unspeakable pain that nobody should,have to feel. Black Americans have suffered even more and in even greater quantities of that collective pain.

I believe Bernie wants to end the pain for all of us. I do not believe Hillary even gets it.

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Response to Live and Learn (Reply #85)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 08:38 AM

86. I always count myself lucky that things were not worse.

 

I could have been born with a lack of intelligence. I know exactly where I would be if that were the case. I would be those who 'have had it worse'.

That is how I know that Bernie is very academic in his knowledge but never gets down into the muck, outta the books. Hit the streets. Walk skid row. If I survived skid row, he can too. Go see those poor blacks he says he cares so much about. I do not expect anything from Hillary. She does not make grand claims.

I see right through the pandering from both candidates. When I see people imbue a guy with godlike perfection, I feel unwell. Do not like it. Telling me he is the best friend of the blacks he never sees? Loving us from afar. Really. Sigh. We see through that. All politicians do that. All. We are pawns.

I have seen just about everything. Knowing when somebody was bullshitting was life or death for me at one point so I better know. Both bullshitting. One makes grand claims. Hate grand claims.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #86)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 09:38 AM

90. Are you suggesting you are skeptical when it comes to folks who love you from afar?

EOM

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Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #90)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 09:53 AM

91. Yes. Most just tell me directly. They do not hide in enclaves that are inaccessible to me.Nt

 

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Sun Nov 8, 2015, 11:41 PM

3. They seem to think primary challengers means you lose

Clearly after having TWO sitting members of congress challenge him in 1972, Nixon must have gone down in flames.

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Response to jfern (Reply #3)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 01:11 AM

23. Kennedy

Don't forget too that Ted Kennedy ran against Jimmy Carter for the '80 nomination.

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Sun Nov 8, 2015, 11:41 PM

4. Like Bernie fans love a strawman.

 

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 8, 2015, 11:44 PM

7. Lol

What was it the strawman scarecrow was missing again?? " If I only had...."
Hmm

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Response to misterhighwasted (Reply #7)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 12:43 AM

18. It is obvious for wanting to vote for the status quo

 

That the h supporters lack coouuuurrrrraaaaagggggeeee.

?w=800

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 01:25 AM

25. They DO love them some strawmen.

 

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Response to bravenak (Reply #25)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:50 AM

55. New term, 'strawmen'. Never heard it before and it seems a bit sexist. nt

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Sun Nov 8, 2015, 11:42 PM

5. If it was a drinking game I'd never be sober.

Butts, Denmark, and ZOMG he suggested a primary in 2012?

SOMEBODY CALL CONGRESS RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #5)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 06:40 AM

70. Speaking of drinking

 

I can't be the only that noticed that a certain very anti-Bernie poster gets more and more unhinged as the wee hours roll along.

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Response to melman (Reply #70)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 06:51 AM

73. Hate can do that to people too.

It's like any other drug, the addict is the only one who can't see what's happening to them.

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Sun Nov 8, 2015, 11:43 PM

6. The problem is the same one that seems to keep coming up.

Sanders supporters cannot admit simple facts.

Sanders is not a Democrat.
Sanders called for a primary.

Both of the statements are indisputable. They are not a matter of opinion. Yet some people here choose to argue about them.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #6)


Response to Post removed (Reply #11)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 12:09 AM

12. Yes she did.

That's a simple fact. So did John Kerry.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 12:32 AM

14. No, we just don't pretend they are huge. HUGE!!! YUUUUUUUUUUGE!!

Sanders is not a Democrat.

Don't care.

If you're going to claim this is all-important, I'd like to hear you talk about how great Jessie Helms was before he switched parties. After all, he was a Democrat for longer than he was a Republican.

Then we can get on to the wonderful Democrat Strom Thurmond.

Or we could be grown-ups and realize party labels aren't the only thing that makes a politician.

Sanders called for a primary

Wake me up when you find he actually ran a primary challenge.

Also, Obama probably wouldn't have flubbed the first Debate with Romney if he'd had to deal with a primary challenger.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #14)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 01:09 AM

22. Thank you.

I don't give a shit about those things, some HC supporters are manufacturing scandals faster than World Nut Daily.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #6)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 12:44 AM

19. Then why is the Democrat party allowing him to run on the Democratic ticket? nt

 

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Response to artislife (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 01:26 AM

26. Clearly, he met the party's eligibility requirements.

End of story -- if there WAS a story.



==================

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Response to Beartracks (Reply #26)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 01:54 AM

29. No story, just foot stomping and gnashing of teeth. nt

 

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Sun Nov 8, 2015, 11:47 PM

8. Does it cut down a tree?

 

If not then I'm not interested.

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Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 01:35 AM

28. Ni!



====================

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Response to HerbChestnut (Reply #8)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 01:57 AM

30. Not just any tree

It has to be the mightiest tree in the forest

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Sun Nov 8, 2015, 11:49 PM

9. Plenty of red herrings to go around

y'all should consider what these fights look like to those of us who would be happy with either candidate.

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 12:21 AM

13. We have three great candidates.

One of them will be the nominee.

I simply don't understand the hatred being shown on either the Bernie or the Hillary side ( I see none of this from O'Malley supporters).

I'm still undecided and absolutely appalled by some of the crap being thrown around here. Some of you are going to feel very, very foolish when we get our nominee.

Why all the mud-slinging? Why the hatred? If you believe in your candidate, then do so and be happy.

It really makes me wonder about the mindset of those with so much hatred and vitriol in their souls.

Again, we have three great candidates.

We should be on the same side folks. I actually used to think we all were.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 12:34 AM

15. Well, I entered this primary happy to discuss issues.

I quickly ran into people who claimed accurately quoting Clinton was a vicious attack. That "attack" was then used as an excuse to unload their own venom.

I'd love to go back to talking about issues. We won't get that though, because "issues" doesn't help all of the candidates equally.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 12:37 AM

16. Just don't respond to venom.

Not sure what else to say.

I haven't seen you being particularly venomous, so keep to the high road, ya know?

Or don't. Plenty here have chosen the low road.

I find it very sad.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 12:39 AM

17. You mean like Kerry not responding to swiftboating?

Venom does not go away when it is ignored. It becomes true.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #13)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 12:45 AM

20. +1000000


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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:22 AM

41. well ya gotta use what ya got I guess

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 04:54 AM

56. What a pretty fish in the OP

 

I wish there were fish that red.

I think Hillary folks like red herrings for two reasons: 1) they are a way of avoiding actual issues, and 2) they are a way of focusing attention away from Hillary. They don't want us looking too closely at Hillary. So they go, "ooo look at Bernie, he's got a purple mole on his cheek!" or "ooo look at Bernie, he's racist, sexist, and doesn't like Obama!" -- even though none of those things are true. Doesn't matter if they're true or not. Doesn't matter at all. They just keep saying them so that we won't look too closely at issues or Hillary.

Q. What's Hillary's position on the TPP?

A. ooo, look at Berrnnie!!!

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 05:09 AM

62. I agree with Sanders

There should have been a primary challenge of Obama in 2012. It would have been nice if Sanders or someone like him had volunteered, Because Obama needed some big time push back from the left, he always has and still does.

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #62)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 05:36 AM

63. Hard, but true observation.

 

Any LGBT equality advocate will agree with you.

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Response to Buzz cook (Reply #62)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 06:20 AM

69. Then why didn't Bernie do it?

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 09:26 AM

89. How's that surge going?

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 12:03 PM

94. K/R

Here's a kitten pic for no reason at all.......

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 02:36 PM

101. I love pickled herring. yummy.

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Response to riversedge (Reply #101)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 02:49 PM

106. w/ sour cream

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 03:25 PM

109. Technically it's strawmen they love.

They have a big old straw Bernie on the Hillary group. When you pull the string on his back he says all kinds of scary quotes that the real Bernie has never said.

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Response to AZ Progressive (Original post)

Mon Nov 9, 2015, 08:42 PM

110. They got little else but red herrings. manufactured controversy, and unproven assertion disguised

as political wisdom. They can't speak on the issues because many of Hillary's proposals have been borrowed from Bernie, albeit with the usual third-way caveats and Rube Goldberg contraptions that water down the proposals.

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