Hillary is in this for herself, Bernie Sanders is in this for the people and for this country

[AZ Progressive]

[luvspeas]

1. Opinions are like assholes...

Etc

[Godhumor]

56. Results of the Alert on this post

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
On Sat Oct 31, 2015, 08:15 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Opinions are like assholes...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=751252

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

I know it's a cliches, but do we need to call each other assholes for differing opinions? DU is like a warzone during a primary. Please don't let this get any worse and just send the message that we are all the same and want the same thing, and calling each other assholes is unwarranted.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Oct 31, 2015, 08:19 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Jeez Louise!
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: this is nothing.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: We all know the rest of the cliche. This is not calling anyone an asshole. If the alerter wants to avoid the "war zone", she or he should really avoid GD-P. I know I do.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Pretty sure the expression is not actually calling someone an asshole. What an odd alert.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Over the top, uncalled for.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The poster didn't call you an asshole. You don't understand the metaphor.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[billhicks76]

62. Lol...You Gotta Be Blind As A Bat Not To See It

Bwaaahahhhaaa

[Phlem]

80. from your other post

This place is making me sick today...

really? But you participated and yet your above it all!?

What a fucking joke. Hypocrisy, Hypocrisy, Hypocrisy, it's for everyone!!!!!

Pathetic.

[quakerboy]

84. Everyone has one, but only some are accurate to the known facts

[lewebley3]

168. If Hillary were in it for herself, she would have been a GOP person:

[lewebley3]

219. Hillary is for the people, she has been working for the Dem's

[DianeK]

2. for sure!

you can feel sincerity...Hillary is all about measuring the drapes!

[NCTraveler]

4. I think Gowdy is qualified to do that for her. Nt

[BlueCaliDem]

201. And he's worked hard for that honor!

[L0oniX]

7. ...drapes and window shades ...which will quickly be pulled down if she becomes POTUS.

[840high]

3. I have no doubt she is.

[lewebley3]

169. Hillary is a woman for the people: There is not doubt Hillary is for Americans

[Unknown Beatle]

180. She's for the people that run corporations.

Americans that are extremely wealthy.

[lewebley3]

182. Thats a Sanders supporters attack: Nothing more: Hillary is have been in public ser:

If Hillary were for corporations she would have joined
the GOP.

[Unknown Beatle]

185. Yeah right.

Obama is a dem and he's for corporations.

[lewebley3]

209. Obama is has been an fantastic President: He will go to bat for the Dems

[Unknown Beatle]

211. He's so fantastic that he pushed hard for the TPP.

The same TPP that was drafted by corporations.

[lewebley3]

212. Didn't say perfect: You are an ideologue: Obama believes in the TPP

However, he is wrong and his party shut him down, over
all Obama has run this country well with he has pulled
his economy to it feet, as well as many other wonderful things.

I don't think it helps to bash our friends and our leaders in the
Dem party.

[Unknown Beatle]

213. This about the fifth time I have posted this.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” ― Theodore Roosevelt

The same goes for all politicians.

Not all the dems are our friends, for example, Third Way dems, they're definitely the enemy of progressive democrats.

[lewebley3]

221. The President has criticism all the time from the GOP:

Obama is not wrong he has a different view (I think he is wrong) : TR was GOP
person: Associating Obama with treason is out of line, if you are going to
think like that you should join the GOP.

The Presidency is a political job, and the job will be filled with a politician, if
you don't like the real world of politics find something else to do.


Third Ways Dem's are not the enemy of anyone: There are no third way Dem's,
just Dem's that want to get things done, and not sink to self pity like Sanders
supporters.

[lewebley3]

210. Hillary could have joined the GOP if she was for corporations:

Hillary would have had a much easier life and had lot more money

[Yurovsky]

216. No, in the GOP she'd have to split the money ...

with the other candidates. As the sole corporatist Demicrat running, she gets to keep it all. Rich folks may be evil, but they're not stupid. If they can buy a Democrat to hedge their bets with (if and when the GOP doesn't win), they will. "Flat Broke" Hillary has been for sale her entire political life, and she is now little more than a subsidiary of Wall Street and corporate interests who will continue to shit on poor & working class Americans with Hillary's blessing if she gets elected.

As an actual progressive who has spent my whole life fighting the very forces underwriting her campaign, it sickens me that people who call themselves progressive Democrats would cast votes for a candidate who is A-OK with letting the 1% call the shots. I guarantee you this, if Hillary wins the nomination and doesn't disavow her ties to her corporate owners and return that dirty money to the thieves that bestowed it upon her, millions of true progressives will vote 3rd party (Green, Socialist, etc.) for President. I love my local Demcratic congressman and I will vote Democrat in other races, but I will not vote for someone who betrays the principals that the Democratic Party stands for in 2015 and beyond.

[lewebley3]

220. Hillary didn't have much money until she was over 50:

The Clinton's worked for their money every penny:
they didn't inherit: and what they do have is chump
money compared to the GOP: Also they spend their
money charities, and public serve: Hillary if she were
greedy could have ran a corporation she is a very talented
person, she turned it all down for the people.

Sanders is not a competent enough person to do
anything but be Senator from a very small state
with very few issues.

[840high]

188. I don't believe it. She loves

Wall st. and they love her.

[BlueCaliDem]

202. Akin to Sanders

loves the MiC and they LOVE him.

[lewebley3]

208. No, the American people and particulary Dem's love her

[HassleCat]

5. Really?

How do we know that? I think Bernie Sanders has the best possible motives, but I don't really know that. I think Hillary Clinton makes her adjustments and compromises because she believes she has to do that to win, and her victory will benefit the nation a great deal. But I don't know that, either. I mean, her husband was a total dog, but do you think he wanted the job just so he could fool around with interns? I seriously doubt it. People are a little more complex than that, and I don't think we should conclude Clinton is just running for president for her ego, her wallet, etc. That's a real stretch.

[DianeK]

6. ahh..for one...

Hillary is not Bill..and besides that, we live in very different times....I would not vote for Bill Clinton today even though I voted for him twice before....Hillary ..on the other hand..would never be my first choice...for the times we live in today, we need Bernie!

[L0oniX]

9. This is the last chance we're ever going to have to start to undo the strangle hold of the oligarchy

[LiberalArkie]

32. Probably the last time in my lifetime. The kids will do it sometime even if they have to use phasers

[Scootaloo]

98. I'm not sure you understand the world we're set to inherit.

Diddle-squat to do with primary politics for a moment. We're crashing face-first into some real end of the world shit, in terms of the environment. And the worst thing is, there's no dodging it. All the (mercury-laden) efficient bulbs in the world isn't gonna stop it. Carbon trading sure as hell isn't gonna stop it, and no politician we elect is going to stop it.

This election, and maybe the next, are the last ones we have before the crises this situation brings to bear warp our politics beyond real recognition. You're right, this may be our last chance, to get some mechanisms in place to lessen the human price of well over a century of unfettered greed and waste of the human commons.

I happen to think our best chance in that regard is sanders. At the very least I know he understands th need for public infrastructure and national welfare programs to keep the least of us from washing away. He told the truth at the debate. fuck Iran, fuck China, climate change IS our biggest national security threat. But I think even he is just a patch job on a blowout. Still, better than nothing.

There won't be phasers. We'll be lucky if we still have microwaves, once all the dust settles - and there's going to be a LOT of dust. And no matter who comes out on top next year, we're only going down. All we'll be determining is the rate of descent.

[freedom fighter jh]

174. +1

It's easy to get distracted and forget how threatened we are.

[silverweb]

60. Absolutely.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]It's now or decades more of millions of people suffering and waiting for another opportunity - or the possibility of a bloody revolution when things get much worse - and the oligarchs know it.


[font color="purple"]Go, Bernie!
Ride the purple wave and join The Purple Revolution!

[treestar]

143. Why is this the last chance?

Why would we not be able to do that in the future?

[Utopian Leftist]

167. Because scientists agree

that we are very close to a "point of no return," where if we don't make drastic cuts in carbon emissions, it will be too late to stop global warming from increasing exponentially. Think of the snowball effect: as it rolls down the mountain it becomes larger until it is an unstoppable force. That is how global warming is about to get unless humanity joins together and changes our behavior (ween ourselves from the tit of fossil fuels).

[freedom fighter jh]

176. What Utopian Leftist said, but also . . .

there is the issue of oligarchical control, which seems to keep getting worse. To some (like me), Bernie looks like our only hope that this trend will be stopped.

[HassleCat]

12. We do need Bernie

There is little doubt that Sanders is not primarily ego driven, that he understands the concept of public service better than most presidential candidates we will ever see. I am very confident Bernie could set aside his ego and his personal interests when it comes time to do the right thing. I have less confidence Clinton will do so when there are difficult decisions pending. Even so, to conclude Bernie is completely selfless, and Clinton is completely selfish, is an enormous leap of logic.

[DianeK]

18. .

[jwirr]

72. We need a candidate who is free from the money used to

win the WH and other offices in the government. The only way we are ever going to get out from under the thumb of the oligarchy is to have candidates who are not beholden to them. To this date that candidate is Bernie Sanders.

As to the difference between Bernie and Hillary. Bernie came into this race for one reason only - to spread the progressive word to the people. When he started his campaign he did not think he was going to be able to challenge Hillary. He just goes day to day moving along with the message he has. Once he saw the support he has he will not turn back. He is in it to win it because of us.

Hillary came into the campaign after years of effort to reach this point. Years of ambition to be the first woman president. I do not know who decided that she was inevitable but she did not shoot that down.

I do not know why either of them want to be president but I know that Bernie walks with us. He talks our language and he will not change his policies just to suit his popularity. I trust him.

[sabrina 1]

173. I have no doubt she believes she knows what's best for us and the country. The problem is she

has been wrong on so many important issues at the time when strong leadership was NEEDED to begin to make progress.

But the problem is that when she changes those positions when she is running for office, people find it difficult to believe that she actually has changed her mind.

Eg, marriage equality. As late as 2013 she opposed it. Now she is running for office and she has changed her mind. The bottom line is she did NOTHING when it was necessary to do something, to move the country forward on this issue. She merely decided she couldn't oppose it anymore now that it is a done deal.

Bernie, otoh, did what was right at the time he was confronted with the issue.

That's what it takes to lead the way forward, doing the right thing when it's not popular but the more who stand up at those times, the more likely we are to see some forward progress.

I do believe that Hillary believes she is right regarding what is best for us.

But she has a record that shows she has been very wrong, see the Welfare Reform Bill, another example, so many times.

It's not a question of what a candidate thinks, even if their motives are good. It is a question of 'were they right'.

Bernie was so many times, see Iraq, the Patriot Act, Welfare Reform etc. Hillary was not. And we someone who has the judgement to make RIGHT decisions AT THE RIGHT TIME, not later when so much damage has already been done.

[tblue]

178. This says a lot

[Mnpaul]

8. Hillary says "I", Bernie says "we"

Watch the opening remarks in the debate

[cantbeserious]

53. ^^^ This ^^^

eom

[anamnua]

82. She says, he says

The ''royal we'' ?

I thought you guys tried to put a stop to that in 1776!

[lewebley3]

170. No true, Hillary more often speaks of the American people

[JaneyVee]

10. Yeah it's all about that govt paycheck!

Oh wait, wrong candidate.

[zappaman]

11. Yes, he's not running for president because he wants to be president.

He's doing it for the people!

[msongs]

13. he is a party of one and only one. is that a clue of some sort? nt

[MrMickeysMom]

16. Do you realize the amount of logic you just put forth?

I'm probably going to wait a long time for that answer, but if you would think for a minute, you might see it.

An idea to run is a singular win, but if you think it's for a singular purpose, you couldn't be more wrong.

Of COURSE the purpose is for "the people".

[msongs]

59. he is not running on behalf of the democratic party. he is a party of one, himself. whether it is

on behalf of The People TM or not. of course being the democratic populist he is, he cannot get elected to president by himself, so he has to tag onto someone else's political party.

edit - actually he is a democratic socialist not democratic populist

[MrMickeysMom]

63. Did I say he was?

Of course, I didn't. I said "the people"...

I don't think it could be any more simple than that.

[lewebley3]

171. So is Hillary: and her history in pulbic service is longer than Sanders

[Kang Colby]

14. Hillary is awesome...

She is a grandmother, a former Secretary of State, former first lady, former senator, she has dealt with personal and family adversity with style and grace, and she is perhaps one of the most effective political leaders the world has ever known.

Even if she were in this for herself, we should consider ourselves lucky to be a part of her historic election in 2016. Here's to breaking the glass ceiling!

[DianeK]

15. Hillary is a Bernie Wannabe

[redstateblues]

20. Hardly. Bernie has never faced the adversity that Hillary has

and flourished. I think Bernie is a good man-not presidential though

[DianeK]

21. stay tuned

[Mnpaul]

79. Bernie doesn't have to face that adversity

He is not trying to hide anything. A lot of Hillary's problems are self created. He has no foundation. He doesn't need a private server. He doesn't have to worry about campaign bundlers.

He does have a record of being on the correct side of issues and the ability to spot foolish policy a mile away.

[redstateblues]

99. Private server? Is that the best you've got?

Bernie's record is very thin for a lifelong pol. The Clinton Foundation has done more good than 10 Bernies

[Mnpaul]

109. Just stating facts

Bernie does not have anything to hide. No one is demanding to see his emails. No one is claiming he gave out favors for donations to his foundation. And he has no bundlers.

[redstateblues]

121. weak

[charlyvi]

147. How very right wing of you.

[Mnpaul]

148. Stating facts isn't right wing at all

you obviously aren't paying attention

[charlyvi]

152. Stating right wing facts are right wing

And I've been paying attention quite attentively. For years. The only people harping on servers and emails to the detriment of Mrs Clinton are right wingers. It didn't work for Trey Gowdy, however, and it's not going to work for Sanders' supporters.

[Mnpaul]

153. The email situation was created by Hillary

even she admitted that she screwed up. If she had followed Obama policy, it would have never been an issue. She gave the Republicans a talking point for no reason.

Pointing out this reckless behavior as a reason why Bernie won't face the same adversity is not a RW talking point. No one is asking to see Bernie's emails and if they did, he would turn them over.

[hack89]

31. Bernie hasn't done shit in how many years in Congress?

At least HRC has had an impact on the real world.

[icuc]

46. Google "Amendment King"

and you'd be surprised who it is.

[hack89]

48. So what is his signature piece of legislation?

What is he going to be remembered for? Working on the edges of other people's legislation is not impressive for a supposedly transformational, once in a life time politician.

[icuc]

49. His signature legislation? Easy. His VA bill.

This is still a case study about bipartisanship on many think tanks.

It improved the lives of the veterans, who Clinton is intent on creating unnecessarily.

[tblue]

181. Bullseye! Wish ppl would stop lying about Bernie

Let's stick to facts.

[Recursion]

136. Ironically, it's the ACA his supporters hate so much

His amendments are what pushed it through the Senate.

[pangaia]

71. So. it is about electingf a W O M A N, is it?

yea, that's a great reason to vote for her..

[pangaia]

73. "Hillary is a grandmother."

Yea, I know, she keeps telling us that.

So what?

[Yurovsky]

217. Yep, so is my cat, but she wouldn't make a good President...

maybe a good Army secretary because she's a total badass, but POTUS? Meh... Not so much.

But seeing a s how my cat isn't owned by corporate interests, she'd be better than Hillary.

[pangaia]

218. I recently read that if cats were bigger they would kills us.

[eridani]

134. Not one word about her vision for the country. Very telling n/t

[MohRokTah]

17. I dont buy what your selling about Sanders.

He's a politician.

He's in it for himself.

John Edwards made the same populist campaign promises and we all know what happened there. Populist politicians are gaming people like any other politician.

[DianeK]

19. you are sorely misinformed...

but go on with that..it seems to be working for you

[MohRokTah]

22. And you are buying into a poltician's game.

So go with it since it seems to be working for you.

[DianeK]

24. lol...

you have no idea who i am or where i come from ideologically..i support Bernie Sanders precisely because he is not a politician as we have come to know them.Bernie is the real deal ..he has worked tirelessly for many many years for the less fortunate and I know this...

[MohRokTah]

25. So something like forty years as a professional politician means Sanders isn't a politician?

[workinclasszero]

26. Right

The hypocrisy.....it berns.

[Ron Green]

52. You may be a nice person, but you sure make some nasty posts.

[DianeK]

35. did I say that Bernie was not a politician...

No..I don't think I said that at all..what I mean to convey is that Bernie is actually working really hard for the working person who is just trying to catch a break...Hillary and her hubs are lining their pockets...who needs that? the working poor and the really poor need a break right now..and that break is Bernie Sanders!

[MohRokTah]

37. You said he wasn't a politician.

Your words. Too late to walk that shit back now.

[DianeK]

40. if i ever said that..it is puny to the point...

I will vote for the person who is working for my best interests ....politician or not...so humor yourself, mohroktah, because you are definately showing that you are a politician

[MohRokTah]

92. Edwards fans sang the same tune in 2008.

Yeah, hack politicians always resort to the populist line to drum up support and it never amounts to a win.

[slipslidingaway]

129. Edwards was a phony, one only needed to compare his actions vs. his words ...

Sanders has remained constant in most of his beliefs throughout many years.

[pangaia]

77. "shit?"

[ablamj]

57. "he is not a politician

AS WE HAVE COME TO KNOW THEM"

[MohRokTah]

90. HE's EXACTLY like every other poltician

as we have come to know them.

[pangaia]

112. No, he is not.

[ablamj]

116. that's

B.S. !!!

[pangaia]

76. THAT is exactly right. Bernie is a Public Servant.

[MohRokTah]

91. He's just another hack Washington politician.

There is nothing special about Sanders. He just sings the populist line, like Edwards did in 2008.

[pangaia]

96. Yea, you said that before.

[MohRokTah]

97. That's because it's true, he's just another John Edwards preying on voter's emotions. eom

[pangaia]

110. Yea, you said that before..

Actually Edwards had a lot more hair.

[redstateblues]

27. all politicians have big egos and are ambitious

all this business about Bernie's pure motives sounds good but he's still a politician.

[TheProgressive]

28. Sanders is a statesman...

Clinton is in it for money and power - money and power for the Clinton's and the 1% (not the people)

[MohRokTah]

36. Bullshit

Sanders has zero foreign policy experience, so he is hardly a "statesman".

[TheProgressive]

44. Right back at ya...

Statesman
noun (pl. statesmen)
a skilled, experienced, and respected political leader or figure.

I'll add my additional definition:
An elected official who demonstrates leadership and policies that positively
contributes to the general welfare of *all* people and our planet.


Precisely like Sanders...

[icuc]

50. Let me think here for a minute who has zero foreign policy experience..

Oh, that's right, President Barack Hussein Obama.

MohRokTah: please proceed to insert foot in mouth. Thank you.

ETA: Better than Clinton's foreign policy which has been a disaster. See: Syria, Libya, and Honduras.

[MohRokTah]

86. Obama wasn't considered a statesman in 2008...

even with all of his international efforts with nuclear nonproliferation as a Senator.

You might want to check your own mouth for that foot you're talking about.

[eridani]

135. Endless war in the Middle East and converting Libya into a failed state are wonderful recommendation

Not.

[Feeling the Bern]

51. Everyone at DU loved Sanders and wanted to see him run

Now, because he is running against Hillary, he is a fraud, a bigot, a politician and in it for himself.

Seriously, I may support Bernie, but this is getting annoying. Research his career and then talk to me about being in it for himself.

[MohRokTah]

87. BULLSHIT!

I saw through his act when he was on Thom Hartmann before Hartmann sold out to RT.

[Feeling the Bern]

93. Oh. . .explain. Really, I'm dying to hear this with facts to back up your position

[JonLeibowitz]

131. Interesting.

It seems to have gotten quiet here. I am not surprised.

[Feeling the Bern]

139. All the poster has is saying Bullshit and then running. There are no facts to back up his position

Still waiting to see them.

[Rose Siding]

149. I liked him but there's nothing in his career that made me think "potus"

[Feeling the Bern]

164. There was nothing in Obama's either. Or Hillary's

That is a nonsense argument.

JFK? George W. Bush? Even George Washington had nothing in his career that made me think "potus"

[Phlem]

64. What a blatant attempt of willful ignorance.

Bernie has a long record you can research, it's out there and I'm certainly not going to do it for the likes of you.

John Edwards not so much.

Hillary not so much.

If you can't see she talks out of both sides of her mouth then your argument is pathetic at the very least.

Nice try but still a complete fail.

[MohRokTah]

89. Sanders is just another hack Washington politician.

It's how he's made his living for most of his life.

He is nothing special.

[Phlem]

94. Oh my. You don't even realize the huge hypocrisy in that statement.

that's the scary thing.

America is so fucked.

Go on MohRokTah, tell me how it is. I've some research I need to start.

[Scootaloo]

101. So who're you voting for?

[MohRokTah]

104. The only person on the Democratic primary ballot I judge to have a chance at defeating...

the Republicans.

[icuc]

108. So that's Bernie Sanders

Not Hillary Clinton. Check. Thank you for supporting the actual candidate capable of defeating Republicans.

[Scootaloo]

111. Who's that? Depending on your location there are a lot of people on that ballot

And you evidently don't like "hack Washington politicians" who have "made their living" off of it "for most of their lives"

[Hepburn]

142. The facts are that HRC stands less of a chance of beating those Repuke idiots

We nominate Hillary and we say hello to: Prez Trump...er...Carson...er...Cruz...er...Rubio.

And when that happens, you will not accept the blame for ignoring the facts.

[pangaia]

75. If you think Bernie Sanders is in this for himself,

you are a blind, deaf and lacking in perception.

That Bernie is NOT in this for himself is the biggest difference between him and everyone else. ESPECIALLY Clinton...

[MohRokTah]

88. ABSOLUTELY he's in it for himself.

He's just another hack Washington politician.

[pangaia]

95. Sorry for your pain.

[lovemydog]

117. But he sure plays a mean pinball.

[PosterChild]

172. We're not going to take it . ...

.... never have and never will....

[lovemydog]

179. Tommy can you hear me?

I'm reading Pete Townshend's autobiography, Who I Am. This has been so much on my mind. What an amazing story that he wrote, concerning music and its ability to unite people through the communication of love.

[Scootaloo]

100. I didn't doubt Edwards' sincerity on the issues he ran on. Still don't.

His presence on the ticket was sort of what made me decide to go ahead and hold my nose in 2004. He has a wandering penis? So what. Doesn't alter his political positons.

[MohRokTah]

103. I certainly doubted it.

Politicians who push a populist line always come off as sleazeballs to me.

Sanders included.

[Scootaloo]

114. Interesting. Can you explain why that is?

[MohRokTah]

118. Every politician I ever met who played the populist shit was a scumbag. eom

[Scootaloo]

119. That's a circular argument. Can you give something a little more expansive?

[MohRokTah]

120. The momentI hear a politician play the populist shit I immediately consider them just a scumbag.

Nothing can change my mind on that due to personal experience with the scumbags.

So in my honest opinion, Sanders is just another scumbag and no matter what you say, you'll never change my mind.

[Feeling the Bern]

140. Stop, it's like arguing with a howler monkey. All they do is throw shit and scream

[Scootaloo]

177. I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm trying to figure it out.

You're telling me that you think they're scumbags because you think they're scumbags. That's a circular argument.

[PosterChild]

175. My point of view...

.... is that populism requires pandering to wide spread popular sentiments regardless of their basis into fact or their practicality or worse, the negative impact of their ultimate consequences. It requires holding to simplistic and extreme policies. It requires an unwavering adherence to positions once taken regardless of changing circumstances .

Due to these factors I'm always suspicious of a suposidly intelligent and astute person who engages in this behavior .

[Doctor_J]

23. same with the respective supporters

I'm thinking about what kind of country and world my grandchildren will grow up in. Hillary supporters are thinking about Hillary

[redstateblues]

33. that's insulting- I care deeply about this country

You insinuate that I don't care about the kind of world my grandchildren live in? Dial back your sanctimonious attitude- you're the kind of supporter that gives Bernistas a bad name.

[JaneyVee]

39. Sanctimonious is right.

[Phlem]

65. and you're the kind voter that gives logic a bad name.

Try a little fucking research.

[redstateblues]

102. It's always nasty and insulting from you. Typical. Sad

Angry just like your leader

[Phlem]

195. BS!

We've done this before. You're just part of the new Hillary recruits.

And the Wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round.

[icuc]

113. My future grandchildren

would like to have a future of their own, without being laden by debt and being fleeced by the 1%. Bernie is the future, and will lead the way to a better life.

[redstateblues]

123. I actually have grandchildren

and hopefully they will not depend on any politician to have a good life. My oldest went to a public school and a public university. It was affordable and she got a good education without being "laden by debt". It wasn't an Ivy League school but she's doing well and I'm proud of her. You can only be fleeced if you allow it.

[marym625]

165. "you can only be fleeced if you allow it" Seriously?

Tell that to the tens of thousands that lost their homes because of shady banks. Tell that to the tens of thousands that have had their property and funds stolen because of unconstitutional laws that allow seizure without even a warrant, never mind an arrest.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg

[AZ Progressive]

29. Hillary Clinton Email Shows She Was Eyeing A Second Presidential Run From Day One At The State Dept.

Read it here: http://www.bustle.com/articles/120778-hillary-clinton-email-shows-she-was-eyeing-a-second-presidential-run-from-day-one-at-the

[RBInMaine]

30. More TeaLeft CRAZED Hillary derangement syndrome. Really, it's as bad the right wingers.

[Phlem]

81. Tealeft huh.

So then I can post about shillary's, yes?

[Art_from_Ark]

145. Talk about "Hillary derangement syndrome"...

Guess who wrote this

"Hillary will say ANYTHING and do ANYTHING to win. STINKING ROTTEN !!"

Someone in Maine, as I recall.

[SammyWinstonJack]

154. Wonder why these formerly Hillary bashers won't respond

to the hate they showered her with in 2008.

[chillfactor]

34. oh good god....

put a sock in it already..Sanders is a politician...remember that. I do not find him any more trustworthy then any other politician.

[JaneyVee]

38. Bernie has dedicated his entire public service to himself.

Casting a few votes while taking off 220 days a year is no match for Hillary's life of action and success. She has traveled all across this globe spreading diplomacy, philanthropy, and action.

[MrMickeysMom]

66. Unbelievable

Yeah, let us remember this post for the sake of future sanity.

Enjoy your hate, now.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

128. And fracking. n/t

[Dems to Win]

41. UNREC

Hillary's not a demon, Bernie's not a saint.

I'm a Bernie supporter who wants him to win the nomination and the general election. If he gets the nomination, he'll need LOTS of votes from Hillary supporters in order to win. Threads like this do nothing to achieve the goal of electing Bernie POTUS.

[Thinkingabout]

42. After twenty five years in Congress and he has little to show where he is helping others.

[Phlem]

69. He has twenty five fucking years of trying to do the right thing for us all.

A huge Fucking difference.

[Thinkingabout]

122. So what is four years of being president is going to help?

[Phlem]

124. let's see oh... I dunno

Maybe a pushback on the TPP, uh the middle class getting a fucking chance for a while.

Don't get me wrong, Bernie has some serious work in front of him.

Not only does he have to deal with Republicans shitheads but also with Third Way *Republican Light* Faux Democrats who are entrenched and who are only in it to maintain the status quo.

I can continue.....

[Thinkingabout]

125. Then perhaps he is not up to the task especially in light of everything is someone else fault.

[Agschmid]

43. Issues? Lol...

[Persondem]

45. Righty, Just 'cuz you say so it must be true.

Just the same kind of nonsense that has been bouncing around the pro Sanders echo chambers for months now.

[boston bean]

47. That is pure BS, as far as I'm concerned.

[c588415]

54. mind boggling how you Sanders supporters relentlessly attack Clinton because she leads him

in most National polls(RealClearPolitics.com). I have nothing against Sanders, but Clinton has my vote. If Sanders does become the Dem nominee, I will vote for him.

[Phlem]

67. She is third Way.

nuff said. If you don't know the difference look it up and come back with all the information instead of he said she said, mKay!

[redstateblues]

105. Oooh- scary "Third Way"

The Third Way has as much power as the Illuminati. Another straw man like Sharia law

[Phlem]

115. Wow!

talking out your ass makes it obvious you bask in self ignorance than doing a fucking smidgen of research. You're all about straw men huh, as if.

[c588415]

162. "he sais; she said".....No!...RealClearPolitics.com says your candidate Sanders aint winnin.

nuff said

[Phlem]

163. Thanks for the useless input you Political Scientist.

Meanwhile your candidate contributed to this: https://wikileaks.org/tpp-ip3/

The IP Chapter of the TPP has perhaps been the most controversial chapter due to its wide-ranging effects on internet services, medicines, publishers, civil liberties and biological patents. “If TPP is ratified, people in the Pacific-Rim countries would have to live by the rules in this leaked text,” said Peter Maybarduk, Public Citizen’s Global Access to Medicines Program Director. “The new monopoly rights for big pharmaceutical firms would compromise access to medicines in TPP countries. The TPP would cost lives.”

Plus she voted for the Iraq war, is financed by wall street......etc. It's just all about the win no matter what huh. Sounds like the same song we sang during the midterms while our asses were handed to us.

That my candidate has nothing to do with this mess says a lot.




Oh. I guess facts are propaganda now. Just fucking amazing.

[c588415]

192. i admire your passion;nevertheless, the chosen one, my candidate Hillary R Clinton,

is going to win it all. So you can take your wikileaks propaganda and .......

[Maedhros]

189. I don't attack Hillary because she's ahead in the polls,

I attack her policies and positions because they are antithetical to progressive objectives. A vote for Hillary is a vote for corporate dominance.

[7962]

55. Careful, you'll get a hide for.........well, they'll make up something

[Amimnoch]

58. Bernie is all about the wishful thinking.

[frylock]

107. This would get deleted if that were Her Majesty instead of Bernie.

[MrWendel]

126. Still Holloween...

Thanks for the Nightmare fuel!

[GitRDun]

61. Another of the Sanders id brigade telling us all how it is.....

I have no chosen candidate yet, in fact I like Bernie....MOM too, not sure I'm sold on Hillary.

It's funny to watch the Bernie faithful make goofy statements like the OP and never wonder why Bernie does not appeal to a broad spectrum of Democrats.

He's obviously done something wrong....but introspection by some on this board just doesn't seem to be on the menu.

[JonLeibowitz]

133. I would always be willing to have a rational discussion about the issues you find important n/t

[pangaia]

68. With that I totally agree.

And THAT is the biggest difference between them.

[Phlem]

70. the ignorance from Hillary supporters in this thread is overwhelming.

Gotta love our fucked up education system.

[thucythucy]

160. And the arrogance from people such as yourself

is just astounding.

You really think you're winning support for your candidate by calling everyone who doesn't support him an ignorant asshole?

Hell, I'm leaning toward Bernie, but the personal abuse spewed by folks such as yourself is making me wonder if I truly want to be associated with this campaign.

If you were a right wing troll you couldn't do a better job alienating possible supporters.

Seriously, you're not doing Senator Sanders any favors by your posts on this thread. If you truly care about the candidate and the issues, you might re-think your "debate" strategy.

[Phlem]

161. Right, and I'm back to your truths are not mine.

How do I know for sure you're leaning towards Bernie. I've been following political double speak for a while and you're telling me zero.

Troll, yep. Been trolling around here since 2005. If I truly were a troll offending people since day one, I'm pretty sure I'd have been gone a while ago. Try a little research next time.

Lastly we are following the same group of people who lost us the midterms. I'm sure you remember the "We need to attract more conservative voters for the win!" Boom every Democrat centrist imploded while real progressive legislation won.

But I'm sure you know that you've done the research right?

We're on the same fucking path again and I'm supposed to sing Kumbaya while centrists destroy the party.

Please.

[thucythucy]

187. In addition to arrogance, you also have evident problems with reading comprehension.

I didn't say you were a troll. I said a troll couldn't do as good a job alienating potential Bernie supporters as you've done on this thread.

You don't know squat about me, and I don't know squat about you, other than the obvious arrogance and condescension you display for all to see. I told you I'm leaning toward Bernie, and you respond with your usual vitriol.

Good luck convincing others that you're brilliant and they're all ignorant assholes, and best of luck to Bernie. With supporters like you he'll definitely need it.

[Phlem]

190. Goodby!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

74. Wow

Can you read minds? What you just said is silly.

[Phlem]

78. I rest my case.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

215. Rest what case?

We've never had an exchange before. Try again.

[Joe Turner]

83. That is a very succinct way of putting it

It contrasts the candidates very clearly. Bernie is the Un-politician. Hillary is a typical self-consumed politician that craves power and thinks of people as subjects.

[SusanCalvin]

85. I don't completely agree.

Hillary thinks that being in this for herself means she is in this for us, I believe.

Thing is, I don't agree.

She is in it for the corporations, IMHO, whether she believes that or not. As are others of her type. Whether they believe it or not.

[stillwaiting]

141. I think she believes that taking care of Big Business interests is in the best interests...

...of our overall economy. Therefore, it's in the best interests of all Americans. It is very possible that she "believes" it for her own selfish ambitions though. Neo-liberalism clearly does little to nothing that's good for the vast majority of people.

Of course, taking care of Big Business interests isn't good for average Americans as the past 4 decades have shown. But, neo-liberals believe this (or "believe" this and lie to themselves and others) so that they can take care of the interests of Big Business without feeling too much guilt. They'd have to be complete sociopaths otherwise. They'd have to not give one single fuck otherwise. The results of the past 4 decades have been clear. THEY know what the results have been. And yet they still pursue policies, trade deals, and legislation that will make things worse for most everyone except for the financial elite. If running a country based on what Big Business wants was good for most Americans things would be great RIGHT NOW for most Americans. Our country has been run on their behalf for decades now.

Big Business certainly found a way to steal our democracy that's for sure. Find and fund completely self-centered, ambitious, and greedy individuals that would put Big Business interests first.

[historylovr]

155. +1

[MrWendel]

127. Bitch and moan, bitch and moan, wash, rinse, repeat.

[Phlem]

193. Blinders on, don't look, DON'T THINK, just keep running.

Like a fucking box of chocolates.

[MrWendel]

196. Stockholm Syndrome Right? All people who don't support Bernie have it? We are all just "Slaves"?

[Phlem]

198. Okee *Doh*kee

[Fumesucker]

197. Interesting choice of slurs from a Hillary supporter

[MrWendel]

199. Which ones? "Stolkholm Syndrom" I believe was a DU Bernie special. "Slave" is

someone without free will is it not? . . .

[Fumesucker]

200. The "B" word..

I've seen plenty of posters get a hide for that word here.

[MrWendel]

203. Yes, there is allot of Bitching and Moaning that goes on in these threads, especially Theads created

to get a rise out of another group on both sides. If you're truly offended then I struck a nerve. If that gets hidden so be it. Sounds like you hope that would make it less true as some sort of validation.

[Fumesucker]

204. I'm not offended at all

On the other hand I find your lack of self awareness to be remarkable since that word is very often used to describe HRC by those on the right.

[MrWendel]

205. A. I'll take your word for it.

B. Thanks for looking out.

C. Are you saying the word "Bitch" is only used to exclusively describe Hillary?

Oh and why not...

D. Who cares what the RIGHT thinks?

[cherokeeprogressive]

130. THAT, is what I believe in my heart of hearts.

[Beacool]

132. Seriously????

Is that all you got?

This place has become a joke.......

[workinclasszero]

144. No kidding

I guess when you got nothing, you get posts like the OP

[Beacool]

156. I've seen too many of these kinds of posts on this site.

That's why I come and take a quick look before moving on to other boards. I can't be bothered to argue with some people.

[workinclasszero]

157. Can't blame you for that

This board mainly deals in fantasy anyway.

Not the real world.

[rhett o rick]

146. Some believe HRC can take billions from the 1% and not have any strings attached.

Quid Pro Quo

The wealthy want to get wealthier and if it's at the expense of the 99%, too bad. A vote for HRC is a vote for the Billionaires.

[Nonhlanhla]

150. Why all the demonizing?

Both Bernie and Hillary are great public servants, each in their own way. They have some differences, but it seems clear to me that their ultimate goal (for both) is to be a public servant for the sake of this country. At the same time it seems pretty clear that both are in this for themselves as well. It's not an either/or: it's a both/and, for both of them.

There are plenty of ways to serve this nation that does not require running for president. Bernie can probably accomplish as much in the senate than he would as president, for example. Hillary has found other ways in the past to serve her country that did not require the presidency. In other words, neither of them HAS to run for president: they are doing it because they WANT to not only serve the country, but specifically serve it as president. And that's fine. They are both politicians.

But they are OUR politicians, Democrats, and that means that by definition they are committed to the well-being of the people, even if they might differ on precisely how that goal is best served. They are not the Republicans, who are sold to a radical ideology that is ruining this country. Yes, they have differences, important differences, but there seems to me that there is no need to try to demonize one over the other. Hillary is not as far to the left as Bernie, but she is not the Wicked Witch of the West, and she is not just in this for herself. Bernie is not the Messiah he seems to be seen as by some of his supporters, but he is no John Edwards either: he has integrity, which Edwards clearly never had.

[Lil Missy]

151. Opinions are like assholes - everybody has one. n/t

[senz]

158. Absolute truth -- thank you, AZ Progressive!

Too bad some folks don't want to face it.

[Uncle Joe]

159. That's my take on the situation as well.

Thanks for the thread, AZ Progressive.

[oasis]

166. Hillary's overwhelming endorsements from super delegates speak

volumes. They have all made their marks in the Democratic Party by putting "the people" first. Voters have acknowledged their public service by re-electing them to office, time and time again.

The same super delegates recognize the fact that Hillary is best qualified to serve the people, the party and the nation.

Can any amount of posters here on Democratic Underground match the collective political savvy and constituent confidence of so many Party stalwarts?

The answer: Hell no!

[PosterChild]

184. Hill Yes!!! nt

[Pathwalker]

183. Can have this week's winning powerball numbers?

After all, you're a world class psychic and all -claiming to know what's in the heart and mind of someone you've never met, surely you have won several large jackpots with your paranormal abilities, and can afford to share them with us.

There are an excess of threads from people claiming the ability to know what is in a certain candidate's mind and heart, and considering how many are by hard core skeptics, I find the hypocricy quite hilarious. I doubt that's the intention, though. Still,

[SoapBox]

186. Yup!

And it shows.

Bernie talks issues.

She and her campaign try dirty politics and accusations (the Red Card, the Racist card, the Sexist Card...and more to come) instead of talking issues. They just can't help themselves because of her chameleon stances and flip flops...previous tracks need to be covered.

[WillyT]

191. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[Phlem]

194. Pretty straight forward and fucking spot on.

[MineralMan]

206. Your evidence of this? You can't just say stuff without

some sort of evidence. So, let's see it, please. Thanks a bunch.

[L0oniX]

214. K & R