Progressives bashing THE progressive candidate for objecting to war?

[HappyPlace]

For taking a principled stand against endless wars?

[in_cog_ni_to]

1. Only if

Your preferred candidate voted for the Iraq war and has zero issues with starting more wars.

[CharlotteVale]

2. Welcome to Bizarro World.

[sadoldgirl]

3. Pardon me, who is THE progressive candidate, please?

[in_cog_ni_to]

4. Bernie.

Someone started a thread (now locked) about Bernie objecting to serving in Vietnam, so was he fit to be the Commander-In-Chief? Nevermind Bill Clinton did the same thing.

[leftofcool]

17. And the GOP called Bill a draft dodger. You think the GOP won't do the same to Bernie?

[AgingAmerican]

19. Who cares what the GOP says or thinks?

Not I

[HappyPlace]

22. Help me I'm confused. Isn't it a good thing that the GOP hates our candidate?

I mean if we reverse engineer that statement, that we should be concerned about what the GOP will say...

...doesn't if follow that the safe way to go for us to back someone they like?

Is that what we want to do?

[in_cog_ni_to]

20. They can't.

He isn't a CO. He was denied that status. And who gives a hoot what the deranged Repubs call him?
They have zero standing on the issue, unless they elect one of their loonier candidates that happens to be a veteran and I don't see that happening.

Bernie's anti-war - as is most of this country.

[HereSince1628]

40. Do they have any Vietnam Vets in the clown car?

[in_cog_ni_to]

42. Nope

Lindsey Graham was in the Air Force and served in Europe. He's too young for VN. As far as all the other clowns - zero military service, as far as I know.

[HereSince1628]

46. Perry was in the military, but I don't know if Perry is still in the clown car.

Perry was a classic Texas Aggie, TAMU was for many years a military academy. When I was there, the 'corps' was still a big deal but the place was trying to become a university. The only music it had was a marching band, which at the time was in court over whether it should admit women.

Perry went into the Air Force, piloted cargo planes iirc.

[sibelian]

44. Yeah, but... Bill won?

[MohRokTah]

23. Bernie was exempt from the draft from 1964 until 1966.

He was married at the time and fell under Executive Order 11119, even after Executive Order 11241 went into effect as he was married prior to that EO.

On September 8, 1967, he was no longer eligible for conscription (his 26th birthday).

So for about a year, he could have been drafted. He applied for CO status, but the rejection came after his 26th birthday.

The point is very moot. He was neither a CO nor was he drafted.

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. Good to know!

So bringing the issue up here on the DU: P was meant to be nothing but another lying smear campaign.

Thanks.

[MohRokTah]

39. That's pretty much what it was all about, yes.

I lean towards Clinton, but I cannot abide the BS thrown out there. Facts are facts, and are difficult things to ignore if you are intellectually honest.

[short circuit]

32. Wow. Facts.

Thank you, MohRokTah.

[virtualobserver]

5. it is the "see what will stick" campaign, right out of the desperation playbook

[avaistheone1]

7. k&r

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. Also...

"Progressives" bashing Progressives is a stretch. Third Way, yes. Center RIGHT, yes.

[LWolf]

8. Does anyone else remember

what it was like here at DU when the Patriot Act and the IWR were voted on, and during the lead-up to the war?

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. Sure do!

This place has definitely changed.

[Lorien]

33. Yes

I thought that a lot of "progressives" were pretty far to the Right back then. Couldn't have imagined how much further Right they would move.

[LWolf]

45. I remember

outrage over the patriot act and over the IWR, and protests leading up to our invasion of Iraq. I was one of those protesters.

[sabrina 1]

49. And no matter how much they may try to pretend that outrage is gone, it is NOT. It is in fact

probably even more important today than it was then, because we were RIGHT and the results of the support for both by Congress are even WORSE than many people feared at the time.

Naturally, now that this is clear, and that it is clear that Bush/Cheney lied and used 9/11 to take away the rights of the American people, as was predicted, there IS an effort to dismiss these most important issues now.

How can we dismiss the unnecessary deaths of so many human beings, or the egregious violations of Constitutional Rights that have and are still occurring?

No one I know who was against it all then, has changed their minds, in fact some people I know who supported it blindly back then, now see how wrong they were.

[LWolf]

50. "No one I know"

except for some anonymous internet posters whose positions change to fit politicians'.

[MoveIt]

9. More like Conservative Squatters in the Big Tent

The hippie beatings will continue and the pony rations halved until you all get with the neo-liberal program.

[Zorra]

11. Anyone can pretend to be, or claim to be, progressive.

It doesn't mean that they are.

Will Pitt, 7/10/15

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251434767

[Dragonfli]

12. The "pogressives" that bash Progressive candidates use a different definition of the word

The same definition used by the Progressive Policy Institute AKA DLC AKA Koch money seeded movement to infuse neoliberal and neoconservative beliefs and goals into the Democratic party for fun and profit.

New Democrats, The DLC and the Third Way

Such ideologues have merely attempted to co-opt the word but have no understanding of the meaning or the goals of those that are truly progressive. They typically can be allies if needed on some social issues as long as it does not conflict with the financial interests of the .01% or their neoliberal/neocon trade, war, fiscal, and privatization policies which are their true passion.

Other than temporary alliances with them on those social interests they are the enemy of the working and poor classes and so should not be trusted on policies that go beyond that slim area of agreement.

It is to be expected for them to fight against, rather than for, a politician that is actually progressive.

[Romulox]

14. nailed it. nt

[olddots]

13. I am a proud anti war liberal

the words progress and progressive can mean many things and I get the feeling rhat people are chicken shit about being liberals .Progress can be 3 dimensional ,we could progress into facism or scooty puterism or all progress into extinction .

[Puzzledtraveller]

15. If there is one thing this race will show

is that progressives can be seen as two types, the traditional liberal that espouses the core principles and seeks the candidate that reflects those principles, and the corporatist that sees progressive as a label, a brand in which it is sufficient to support the brand above the principle. In my opinion.

[HappyPlace]

16. Good point. "Branding"

It's kind of like astroturfing, isn't it?

By that I mean you take a term like "clean energy" and apply it to something like natural gas, which is cleaner than coal but still a fossil fuel.

[Puzzledtraveller]

18. It's really effective.

[AtomicKitten]

21. Pssst: They're not progressives.

[hifiguy]

24. Nope. Just Turd Way types seeking to coopt the term.

To hell with them.

[AtomicKitten]

27. Here's the DNC promoting Clinton alongside Bernie as "progressives." As if.

[hifiguy]

28. Barf. If HRH is a real progressive,

I am Napoleon. And last I looked I was decidedly not Napoleon.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. Debbie Wasserman-Schultz thinks arresting cancer grannies for smoking pot is "progressive"

I'm not sure the DNC's calibration on this sort of shit is terribly accurate, these days.

[HappyPlace]

48. OMG that can't be real....

Please tell me that's a photoshop joke-- even the DNC isn't that stupid, is it?

Shit. Let the debates begin!

[Maedhros]

26. Just because they want "a kinder, gentler machine gun hand"

doesn't mean they are "progressive."

They want Hillary to be President, and don't much care what lies they have to tell to make it happen.

[hifiguy]

31. Time has granted a deeper perspective on the Clintons.

Neither has any core principle save self-advancement by any means available. The only question ever asked is "What's in it for me? What do I get out of it?"

One might contrast that rather negatively with the Kennedy brothers or one James Earl Carter, Jr.

[stevenleser]

29. Link please. nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

36. Oh............ like you are not paying attention

Why don't you discuss this on Fox news next time?

[HappyPlace]

41. Nope. Don't want to give them traffic.

Wouldn't be prudent.

[Ichingcarpenter]

30. How many buried friends in a war?

They an't old enough to give me that WW2 shit.

[leveymg]

34. These people would be happiest with Jim Webb, I think. n/t

[GitRDun]

35. You cannot say he was "principled" and then say Mitt Romney was not

Bernie is just another guy in the 1960's who did what he could to stay out of a war that most thought was a bad idea at the time. It's disingenuous to set him on a pedestal and criticize anyone else from that era who dodged the draft.

He's no better, or worse than some of the Republican stories we've heard.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for those that chose to serve back then, real heroes. The rest, as in this case, I try not to judge. All I know about me is I would do whatever it took to keep my son out of a war over oil, so I refuse to be the pot calling the kettle black.

If people honestly believe not serving is a "sin" in some respect, I have no problem with them calling Bernie out. I think if most were honest with themselves, however, they would be hesitant to sign up for that duty knowing what a train wreck it was.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. "Sanders' supporters are all white people" wasn't getting any traction, so....

[beam me up scottie]

43. +1

[Katashi_itto]

47. K&R