"Bernie Sanders is great, but some of his most vocal supporters are becoming a problem"

[George II]

Interesting article from a Progressive online publication. Its a very long article, I'm only posting down through the comments section. Good reading for everyone. I did NOT write this.

http://www.forwardprogressives.com/bernie-sanders-great-supporters-problem/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ForwardProgressives+%28Forward+Progressives%29%29

Bernie Sanders is great, but some of his most vocal supporters are becoming a problem

August 12, 2015 By Allen Clifton

However unlikely the scenario, if Bernie Sanders overtakes Hillary Clinton and wins the Democratic nomination for president, I’ll be one of his biggest supporters. Everyone’s goal heading into 2016 should be, above all else, to make sure Republicans don’t win – especially with the stakes as high as they are with the Supreme Court.

If you’re one of those “Hillary Clinton is no different from a Republican” people, let me educate you a little bit. Clinton is for:

◾Immigration reform
◾Free community college
◾Universal health care (since 1992, by the way)
◾Gay rights
◾Overturning Citizens United
◾Campaign finance reform
◾Raising taxes on the rich
◾Protecting women’s rights
◾Combating climate change

Practically every single Republican running for president strongly opposes each of those, so if you think “they’re the same” – well, you’re probably one of the people I’m talking about when I say that many Sanders supporters are becoming a problem.

The truth is, while I have my doubts about his electability, I have no problem supporting Bernie Sanders for president if he were to win the nomination. Again, my main goal is to keep Republicans out of the White House in 2016. I am unapologetic in saying that I would rather vote for a box of rocks under the Democratic ticket than any Republican.

So when I express my doubts concerning Sanders and his chances of winning, it’s not to “bash” him, it’s to point out some realities (often based on polling stats that I read just about every single day) showing that what I’ve believed for a while is actually coming true. Take for instance the Gallup poll showing that 41 percent of Democrats won’t support a socialist, or an even more recent CBS poll showing only 8 percent of Democrats think Sanders can win the general election. Now, I know what some will say, “That’s because the media keeps saying he can’t!” Well, let me remind those folks that even many of those who picked Sanders in that same CBS poll as the candidate they wanted to win the nomination said they didn’t think he could win it.

But my biggest concern with Sanders hasn’t really been that he’ll win the nomination, it’s that he’ll build up expectations from many liberals just enough to where if he eventually loses, it’s going to deflate enthusiasm and hand Republicans the White House next year.

And based on how radical quite a few of his supporters have become, that’s exactly what seems to be happening. If you don’t believe me, let me show you what I mean. From what I’ve been experiencing (and the feedback I’ve gotten from many other liberals as well), many Sanders supporters are radical, aggressive and sometimes even borderline “bully-ish” when it comes to anyone who might dare doubt anything to do with Bernie Sanders.

So, I decided to comb through the comments sections on just two articles I’ve written:

 Things Hillary Clinton Must Change About Her Campaign

 Pros and Cons to Bernie Sanders the Presidential Candidate

Keep in mind that the following comments came from just these two articles:

F*ck Hillary vote for Bernie Hillary changes her mind every time she figures out people aren’t buying her bs.

Hillary really only needs to make one change and that is to…tell the truth. Now, she knows she cannot do that, because then her chances of being president are over. And how is Bernie not electable? Better yet, how is Hillary even considered to be electable? I am one of those progressives with the mentaliry that is: Bernie or bust. I will not vote for Hillary.

Allen, STFU. We stopped listening when you told us that we need to line up bend over and graciously accept the nominee the Kingmakers bestow upon us. WE DON’T LIKE HILLARY CLINTON ALRIGHT? And we’re not going to.

No more ‘Bushs’ and no more ‘Clintons’. It’s time for someone that is true, honest & not bought. It’s time to #feelthebern

You are a tool. You, and everyone, should vote for what they believe in, not who is mostly likely to win.

All you cons are invalid. Also, you don’t support a candidate who you think is going to win. You support the one who you think CAN DO THE BEST.

If Bernie is the Dem candidate, I’ll joyfully go to the polls and vote for him. If Hillary gets the nomination, I’ll vote Republican, or whatever other choice is available.

Allen, you labeled Sanders a socialist 3-4 times in this article, which is a flat-out lie.

I’ll vote for Sanders, in a losing cause, if he’s nominated by the Dems. But he’s not their best candidate. Jim Webb has a much more nuanced view of the world. I will never vote for Hillary Clinton.

Thanks to this article, I’m “un-following” this site.

Forward Progressives? Really? Or middle of the road tentative steps party? Hillary Clinton has Monsanto execs working her campaign.

She and Bill orchestrated the beginning of the neo-liberal wing of the Democratic party that sucked up to Wall Street and became Republican light.

One “pro” reason you don’t list: Hillary supporters will vote for Bernie, but many Bernie supporters will vote Green if Hillary gets the nomination. Sanders is stronger for the general election.

This is the worst political article I’ve read in a while and it makes me dread the 2016 election by reminding me that hard line democratic tools like you are once again going to sh*t talk the best person for the office and anyone who’s an idealist just because you want to “win.”

How much did wall street pay for that bs con list.

Spread the news, this author is PR for Clinton – he is an “unapologetic Hillary Clinton supporter” and likely getting money from Cinton’s campaign to write this stuff.


Then throw in a ton of “#FeeltheBern” or “#Bernie2016? posts mixed in and I think you get the point. Let me emphasize that these are comments from just two articles, though I’m seeing this tone from Sanders supporters on pretty much every article relating to either him or Clinton.

(more at the link)

[SonderWoman]

1. Calling everyone a "Soros shill" will definitely win hearts and minds.

[roguevalley]

60. some people need to pull their heads out of their backsides

you support the candidate and ignore his supporters if they annoy you. If you turn from a candidate because of supporters, people he/she doesn't know, control, etc then you are a ninny.

[LannyDeVaney]

2. Good article. I agree 100% ...

Most of the reactions seem very immature in my opinion.

[66 dmhlt]

9. Agreed! There's a big difference between "Enthusiasm" & "Shrill Petulance"

[Jester Messiah]

3. Your concern is duly noted. [nt]

[cherokeeprogressive]

20. Duly.

[ibegurpard]

5. I thought his supporters already WERE a problem

Although I just found out this morning that it's not his supporters but a lack of leadership on his part...

[Sheepshank]

10. I think I may have hinted at that...but in honestly am still trying to figure out....

....if it's Bernie supporters that have influenced the negative perception of Bernie (which is not good for Bernie).
or
If it is Bernie that has influenced his supporters to act the way they do (poor leadership).

Which one do you suppose it could be?

[MoveIt]

14. Maybe its you?

[ibegurpard]

16. Yeah that could be

[George II]

19. Probably not.

[virtualobserver]

32. then again, we welcome your input....so with that in mind

[99th_Monkey]

6. Supporter of Sanders should reflect what Sanders does & says.

Sanders sticks to the ISSUES, period.

That said, there are a number of issues where Hillary's history are
utterly inconsistent with her current platform statements, and I
totally think those are fair game & legit to bring up, even if it "feels"
like an "attack" by her supporters.

I try to use this ^ as my standard, tho probably I'm not doing it
perfectly.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

7. The biggest reason Sanders might not win the general,

Is that the Democratic Party establishment wouldn't support him, like Ned Lamont or George McGovern. It is entirely unfair to expect us to loyally vote for a candidate we strongly disagree with while the party leadership makes it clear that they dont respect the primary process. If it were up to them, we'd hash this out at the convention like the old days. The more undemocratic this primary is, the more Bernie supporters will give up on the party. That's fair. 1 debate prior to the primary starting is a perfect example of the problem.

[George II]

8. The primary/caucuses start in February, there will be 4 debates by then, not 1.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

17. That's what happens when I repeat something without verifying.

I'd prefer more, and earlier debates, but 4 is much better than 1. But we go through this every primary. In the end the losing side's supporters be disappointed and depressed, but most will support the winner regardless. Enthusiasm is going to be a problem unless we are running a change campaign, which is difficult to do with another Clinton.

[BKH70041]

27. True

"The biggest reason Sanders might not win the general is that the Democratic Party establishment wouldn't support him"

As a major donor, I can say my money would go directly to Congressional and State races and not to the presidential race.

[Fawke Em]

43. Good. Bernie will need a Congress he can work with.

I guess stamping your feet is better than taking your ball home.

[Historic NY]

77. No the problem is he is pandering to the extreme left........

while forgetting there is actually a Democratic Party that does not reflect their views. When the term progressive is bantered around its not what people really mean its become a more palatable word to reflect those views. Democrats know who they are and don't need to be told by those that have come late to the table. There are varying viewpoints within the Democratic Party that reflect varying opinion and viewpoints...the old wing has been at the table through fight after fight from the 50's through the 70's. These are the stalwarts that whose leg work the present party works from. If you think Bernie is going to gather the necessary funds to defeat the KOCH Bros and the 17 loonies without the full Democratic establishment then you cluesless about this party and its history.

[Roy Ellefson]

11. I remember

this Obama/Sanders supporter remembers "Party Unity My Ass"

[AtomicKitten]

38. Hillary supporters set the low bar in 2008.

Give 'em time. As things start to go badly, they will blossom again.
The epithets against Sanders' supporters is projection.

v

[restorefreedom]

12. i am sure that someone with enough time

could go through a forum (perhaps this one) and find an equal number of similarly toned posts from hillary supporters.

but then, we all already knew that

[zeemike]

26. I was going to point that out too.

I have seen a number of them myself.
Take the log out of your own eye before trying to clear someone else's eye...is always a good principle to stand on.

[restorefreedom]

41. yup. good common sense advice. nt

[Armstead]

52. Same shit actually that has been spouted since 1976

[quickesst]

13. Doesn't sound any different...

.... than Democratic Underground IMO. When they look in the mirror they see something completely different than what the rest of the world sees.

[aikoaiko]

15. So tell us why you think this is a good read? Do not think these things have been unsaid?

[Capt. Obvious]

18. No, not said enough

Sure it's being said every hour on the hour in the big forums and most of the groups but I have yet to see it in Cooking And Baking and Soccer.

[Exultant Democracy]

21. PUMA nuff said.

[Gamecock Lefty]

22. 41%

As a Hillary supporter (and one who likes Bernie!), I wonder who the hell these 41% Dems are that will not vote for a socialist? We are already partly a socialist nation - as are all developed nations. There is not one socialist or one capitalistic economy these days; we tend to be mixtures of each.

That is what was so gleeful regarding all those silly Tea Party rallies after Obama took office. They would scream, “keep your damn government out of my life, but leave my social security, welfare, disability, unemployment and Medicare alone!!!”

Silly teabaggers.

[retrowire]

25. maybe older voters

that confuse the term socialist for communist Russia and Nazism?

most people are learning fast though.

[Martin Eden]

30. "who the hell these 41% Dems are that will not vote for a socialist"

It all depends on the context of the poll and how the question is phrased.

Many people who would answer NO to voting for a Socialist would answer YES to voting for Bernie Sanders.

The fact is that Bernie is a Democratic Socialiast ... and that is much different than a Socialist who supports government ownership of all business functions. The term can be interpreted many different ways, from the kind of socialism we already have in this country (Social Security, for example) to the Marxism of the Russian Revolution.

How the term is defined is critically important. A poll which does not clearly define the term is very likely being intentionally dishonest and trying to solicit an answer to serve a political agenda.

[immoderate]

58. Yup. Polls are word games.

Everyone you talk to means something different by "socialism."

Definition I use: Workers own the means of production.

I would call what the Russians had "national capitalism." But like I said, labeling is very personal.

--imm

[ericson00]

62. while the definition of "socialist" can be debated, one's self-imposed label of it cannot be

thats what the problem is.

[cantbeserious]

23. HRC - Is Also DLCer & Obligated To Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks - A Favorite Friend Of The 1%

eom

[azmom]

31. The poster left that part out.

[retrowire]

24. really?

Supporters from every camp have been offensive and rude. no stones can be thrown here, seriously.

second, I don't think Bernie's supporters are affecting Bernie badly at all considering recent news.

[jeepers]

33. To voluntarily sign up for this rock fight

and to then complain when the missiles start flying past your ears is pointless but entertaining.

[retrowire]

36. agreed n/t

[HFRN]

28. 'people, let me educate you a little bit.'

I don't need to be 'educated' about someone I'm long familiar with

[AgingAmerican]

29. There is no excitement for Hillary

...so they throw stink bombs.

[notadmblnd]

34. Are you responsible for the behaviour of everyone who associates themselves with you?

Well then, neither is Senator Sanders.

[ismnotwasm]

35. It's exhausting

I have no desire to "Bash" Sanders, no matter how I feel about his ability to be an effective POTUS. If he is the nominee, I will vote for him. I like him.

But the constant ignorant and uninformed anti-Hillary tactics, the knee-jerk and incredibly offensive--recent racism as an example, and not just on DU--attacks leveled against any criticism whatsoever of Sanders (some of it is clearly personality instability, but most is simply follow the leader)is tiresomely exhausting at best and gets please-someone-keep-my-eyes-open boring quickly.

[AgingAmerican]

37. I have noticed

That the Hillary supporters who complain most about Sanders supporters, are the same ones who are constantly throwing stink bombs at them! Funny how that works! Random coincidence?

[mythology]

79. Obviously it's entirely unrelated

Some people on both sides have said some pretty ugly things. The same thing happened in 2004 and 2008. If there is a competitive primary in 2020 and DU is still around, it will happen then too.

[LiberalLovinLug]

39. What a loaded headline

And a load of you-know-what

As others have said, BOTH sides have passionate followers that say things on an online comment board they may not necessarily say live. Anyone could make an equal list of comments by over zealous Hillary supporters slagging Bernie, from DU alone. And to cherry pick comments from the comment section of an article on a blog that calls itself "Forward Progressives", of course those that read a blog with that title are going to be on the left side (the Bernie side) in general. So you'll predictably get a disproportionate percent of pushback from a column by a self-described "unapologetic Hillary Clinton supporter"


One comment that you didn't include from one of those links was I thought more germane to the premise that Bernie supporters themselves are harming the Sanders campaign:

Eric Salinas · Web cartoonist at Something About Celeste

I'm sorry, but this really is a lame article. It insinuates that all of Sen. Sanders' s supporters are illogical and are overly-emotional. "As Sanders supporters have become more emotionally invested (and sometimes flat-out hostile and irrational), it’s natural that they’re going after her with the same tenacity that Republicans have for years." This smear is in the same vein as her surrogates labeling Sanders a socialist but then don't offer any substantial grievance against him. To state supporters of Sanders are illogical and hyper-emotional...as if they were all hippies...well that is just lazy analysis and generalization.

And to talk about one of his points. #3. "One of the biggest perceptions that’s helped Sanders build momentum is the liberal blogs bragging about the big crowds he’s drawing in. Now, does any of this really matter? Well, it goes back to perception. When your strongest opponent is speaking in front of 8,000 people and you, the presumptive frontrunner, are speaking in front of 2,000 – it looks bad." No, charging $200+ per person while your opponent is hosting venues that are free to the public make her look bad. Not the size of the crowd. But I suppose it is all how the media (you, Mr. Clifton) frames it.

In short, none of the 5 suggestions offered have convinced people still on the fence or supporting other candidates to really give Secretary Clinton a second look. In that measure, this article has failed.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

40. nice op-ed by Allen Clifton, "unapologetic Hillary Clinton supporter"

I don't suppose he'd be biased in favor of Hillary Clinton, would he?

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Let's forget the Copy right violation (4 paras max)

You forgot this George, at the bottom of the page.

Allen Clifton Allen Clifton is from the Dallas-Fort Worth area and has a degree in Political Science. He is a co-founder of Forward Progressives, author of the popular Right Off A Cliff column, and an unapologetic Hillary Clinton supporter. He is also the founder of the Right Off A Cliff facebook page, on which he routinely voices his opinions and stirs the pot for the Progressive movement. Follow Allen on Twitter as well, @Allen_Clifton.

Read more at: http://www.forwardprogressives.com/bernie-sanders-great-supporters-problem/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ForwardProgressives+%28Forward+Progressives%29%29

Context matters...

By the way, he is repeating the same slurs that are being battle tested here and are not doing very well.

[George II]

44. I didn't forget that, I noted quite clearly that the article was very long and I wasn't...

...going to post the entire thing. I posted the link AND I said &quot more at the link)" at the end of my post.

At least I didn't rewrite the headline or selectively <snip> it as we've seen done on DU. NOR did I post it in a protected group so it could not be freely commented up by all-comers.

All comments are welcome.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Nice charge, given I always use the exact headline

but also nice oversight.

You should, if you were honest, told your readers this was an unapologetic Clinton supporter from teh git go. That is a critical detail. Just my opinion, really.

[George II]

46. There was no specific charge, but I've seen a couple of "pissing contests" recently about...

....whether or not a headline has been misleading or misposted. That's all I'll say about that.

The "biography" of the author was on the same page as the entire article, it was not an oversight at all.

It should also be noted that the author's partner (the two of them created and maintain the site together) is an unapologetic Sanders supporter and apparently the two of them can have completely opposite opinions and get along fine. Refreshing.

PS - it's all out there for everyone to read. I really don't appreciate being told "if you were honest"!!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. You left a critical detail out

and that is my point, Have an excellent day. I have an EIR to read, and those get ahem complicated. Time to stop goofing off with a damn partisan who conveniently forgets important details.

[Lancero]

51. Jury results, 1-6 leave

On Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:22 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

You left a critical detail out
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=513826

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

People can have a discussion without dragging insults into it...the person't previous post said the OP wasn't being "honest", this one says the OP is a "damn partisan who conveniently forgets important details", neither of which are true.

Do we really need these insults being flung around cavalierly?

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:59 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Stepping over the line right into insult territory.

Considering the time of year, most people here are extremely accepting of free for all insult fests. I'm voting to hide, and hoping that the others of this jury are willing to help bring decency back to DU in these times..
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Coughalertstalkcough

There is no TOS violation here what so ever
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Well, the piece is reflective of the Democratic estab real fear and on-going target: the many people who support progressive change, and it is properly posted in Primaries. The Alert is small potatoes.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[George II]

64. Read the "Copyright" section at the bottom of every DU page....

Do not copy-and-paste entire articles(1) onto this discussion forum. When referencing copyrighted work, post a short excerpt with a link back to the original.(2)

To simplify compliance and enforcement of copyrights here on Democratic Underground, we ask that excerpts from other sources posted on Democratic Underground be limited to a maximum of four paragraphs(3), and we ask that the source of the content be clearly identified(4). Those who make a good-faith effort to respect the rights of copyright holders are unlikely to have any problems.(5) But individuals who willfully and habitually infringe on others' copyrights risk being in violation of our Terms of Service.

Democratic Underground believes we have an ethical responsibility to respect the rights of copyright holders. For this reason, we strongly encourage our members to refrain from violating copyrights when posting here, and we make a good-faith effort to deal with copyright violations posted on our site when we are aware of them. However, please be aware that as a matter of law, individuals who infringe on copyrights in their postings on this site or elsewhere can be held individually responsible for copyright violations they post. Democratic Underground does not necessarily have a legal responsibility for the things members post on this website.

1. The entire article wasn't copied-and-pasted
2. I pointed out that I wasn't posting the entire article but an excerpt
3. "We ask", not "we require"
4. The source of the content was clearly identified by including a link to the site/the article.
5. Obviously the manner in which I presented this article and included disclaimers and the link, A GOOD-FAITH EFFORT to respect the rights of coyright holders has been made.

If you really have a problem with a "copyright violation", take it up with the administrators or alert the post to have it hidden.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. I *do not alert*

but you surely were not here during the lawsuit era for copyright violations, The 4 paras are considered kind of standard.

Nor do I play juries, I leave that to the kids,

Now go on, continue to defend whatever you are defending, I lost track a while ago.

[George II]

68. I see your "I don't do" list doesn't include insults.

"continue to defend whatever you are defending, I lost track a while ago" - your way of saying "gee, you're right and I'm wrong"

Now I'm beginning to remember why I had you on ignore for months.

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. Please, I beg you, keep me on ignore

[Beacool]

48. Going by the comments I read on this site, there's some validity to this article.

Some of the pro-Sanders posters have crossed the line to RW talking points. Many of the comments have been horrendous and not fitting of a Democratic site. By and large, Hillary supporters have been respectful of Sanders.

This place is so anti-Clinton that I don't come here too often and comment a lot less than I used to do in past years. It's not worth the aggravation, and besides, it won't change anyone's mind.

[Roy Ellefson]

59. Party Unity my ass

Yes I remember the days when the most ardent HRC posters defiantly posted "Party Unity My Ass" as Obama wrapped up the Democratic nomination...I won't forget that...just like I won't forget the plea to Hard Working Americans. White Americans. to support HRC.

[Beacool]

80. The majority of Hillary supporters voted for Obama.

The PUMAs were a small group of disgruntled supporters. What the heck do they have to do with what's going on now, 7 years later? Are we in grade school? I'm rubber, you're glue?

Gee..........

[Roy Ellefson]

84. grade school

no we are not in grade school...however I expected the same grade school behavior from HRC supporters this time around. I expect to support the Dem nominee whoever it is, but if HRC's supporters continue to demand that Sanders abandon his economic justice message then I may have to reconsider.

[Beacool]

85. Vote, don't vote, your choice.

There will only be two choices that matter in 2016. I intend to vote for the Democratic nominee.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. Tsk. Tsk. Sad, very sad. Heartbreaking. Tragic.

Politics is messy. Very sad.

[Armstead]

50. Is there a machine that's been recycling this CRAP since 1976? Just stick different names on it.

Same old shit that gets trotted out every tine there's an election. (And between elections add "we must keep our powder dry."

[MuseRider]

53. Primary politics

is a well known blood sport around here.

People from all sides throw bombs then complain when the people they threw them at get all mad and say stuff.

We need more fainting couches around here.

My oh my , what ARE we to do about those people?

[Armstead]

54. Blood sport is one thing

Endless Groundhog Day pronouncements are another.

[MuseRider]

55. Very true.

Sorry, I meant to post to the OP but always nice to talk to you!

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. That is a good definition of how to call it

ground hog... day

These chestnuts were also used against Carter, and I was not awake.

[Armstead]

83. Actually the populist insurgent back then was Sen. Fred Harris

The Harris campaign for President was my first experience with a candidate who was challenging the status quo.

You should look him up on. A very interesting character, Sen. from Oklahoma, who ran a a populist in 76, and was ahead of his time. He retired from politics but is still alive.


----------------------
At 84, Fred Harris is still advocating for issues closest to his heart
http://www.abqjournal.com/621915/news/activist.html
Excerpt:
"Harris still advocates the same populist view, a redistribution of wealth and power, that he professed during his two presidential campaigns, detailed in a 1975 Rolling Stone interview with another activist, Tom Hayden. Hayden described the Harris of 40 years ago as someone who “looks and sounds like he’d be more comfortable at a farmers’ market in Oklahoma.”

Harris says the root of his views come from his hard-scrabble life as the son of a farmer in Cotton County, Okla. “I started bailing hay when I was 5. I started following the harvest when I was 12.” Harris says his father was finally out of debt in 1974, the last year of his life.


He served on the Kerner Commission or the President’s Commission on Civil Disorders, a committee convened by President Lyndon Johnson to unearth the causes of bloody race riots that swept the nation in 1967. He sponsored legislation to return Blue Lake to Taos Pueblo, an area sacred to the pueblo, that was signed into law by then President Nixon in 1970.

“I’m still saying now what I was saying then,” he explains over iced tea in a restaurant in Corrales.

In the 1970s, Harris thought a presidential campaign, even an unsuccessful one, could make a difference: “I am especially proud of the fact that I ran for president of the United States and that, doing so, I said exactly what I believed in. One of our campaign slogans was ‘the issue is privilege.’ ”

That issue, stirred again by a new generation in the Occupy Wall Street movement, stems from a belief he held and ended all his speeches with, “There is plenty of money to do what needs to be done in this country, if we take the rich off welfare.”

The gap has widened since then, between those who have and those who don’t.

Now, like then, Harris believes the right kind of economic stimulus, such as the kind that brought the country out of the Great Depression and established a robust middle class after World War II, would help. “Did the United States go bankrupt? No, to the contrary. We proved what (economist John Maynard) Keynes said, what my tough cowboy dad said more simply, ‘You have to spend money to make money.’ ”

[Jappleseed]

56. Thank you for this astute and well thought out post on what to look for in a candidate.

Looking forward to your next post on how to pick a candidate based on looks.!

[sibelian]

57. Nobody's gonna be voting for Bernie Sanders supporters.

That's not who's up for election.

[Roy Ellefson]

61. Lady Lynn Forester de Rothschild

hopefully everyone remembers the most royal of divisive HRC supporters, the DLC fundraiser with so much royal lineage it was in her name, who after Obama secured the nomination went all in for John McCain (like so many other PUMAs) the wonderfully royal Lady Lynn Forester de Rothschild.

[rocktivity]

67. Bernie Sanders is great, but some of his most vocal supporters are becoming a problem

...for the other candidates!


rocktivity

[QC]

70. Much of the Obama Fan Club here was utterly vile

to LGBT people for years, literally years, with a few blessed exceptions.

They likened us to children crying over ponies and Veruca Salt demanding an oompa loompa right now--as if we were petulant little girls (hey, nothing homophobic about that, right?) and legal equality were something so frivolous as an impractical gift. They stalked us around the LGBT group until Skinner had to lock one of them out. They acted as though it was the height of wit to refer to gay men by women's names, accused us of being racists and "Hilbots" when we objected to the president sending out a surrogate who called us vampires and accused us of wanting to kill America's children. And so on.

All this abuse culminated in the 2009 Homopurge, when many of the remaining GLBT people who had not been hounded out of this place were banned for, among other things, posting "7", all because some people here thought that their hurt feelings over seeing someone criticized on a message board were more important than our lives.

What used to be a lively, thriving community of LGBT people has never recovered from all that.

But do you know what I did on Election Day in 2008 and 2012?

I got up early, went to the polls, and voted for Obama.

I did that because I'm not foolish enough to confuse him with people on a message board, and whatever his faults, I knew that he was a hell of a lot better than McCain and Romney.

So please forgive me if I think that all this "I was going to vote for ___ but somebody on a message board was mean to me!!!11!!" business is just childish.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. + brazillion

and I remember.

I also remember the racial messaging in 2008 from team Hillary.

[QC]

75. Thank you.

It's good to see that someone else remembers, because the people responsible for all the ugliness are now pretending that they are DU's very own Harvey Milk.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. And not only you and me regarding LGBT

so did Alicia Garza of BLM. regarding team hillary.. she posted this yesterday

Here's the thing: what this last week has shown me (actually confirmed for me) is that populism can be really dangerous and tend rightward. Pay attention to these reactions. White people never rose up so much for a white candidate. Not even when Clinton ran one of the most racist campaigns against Obama in 2008. And the right has been silent but don't mistake silent for being inactive. Marinate on that for a minute.

It was an ugly campaign, This is starting to look like we are going to wish for THAT campaign.

[Autumn]

74. I well remember that. Good people here were stalked and banned

and even Skinners mending fences OP didn't sooth the hurt and loss. It broke my heart what happened to so many of our members back then. The one's I knew elsewhere went on to vote for Obama. You said a whole lot of truth in this one post and it is so fucking ridiculous and offensive for anyone to say "I was going to vote for ___ but somebody on a message board was mean to me!!!11!!" It's worse than childish, it's troll talk. Fuck that noise, they can't find anything bad about Bernie so it's trash talking his supporters that gets them off.

[Puglover]

82. "Childish"???

You're being kind. There is nothing that is funnier to me then vicious bullies suddenly claiming to be victims.

[Bluenorthwest]

86. This is very true. All of it.

If I'd judged Obama by his supporters on DU, I'd never have supported Obama. People who take up the identification with a politician like that are fans. That's not a bad thing, but it is not a reason based thing. That goes for Bernie, Hillary, Obama, everyone. Some people just take up the banner to have a banner. The fan is not the candidate anymore than those girls screaming in the front row were John Lennon.

[m-lekktor]

90. I am glad I missed that.

but i have googled and read some of the old threads that i have been told about and it was interesting to see what names I saw and what they are saying now.

I noticed people here like to instigate bad will and poke and poke and prod and then stand back and whine when people are pushed to the limit and respond in kind. how do they think people are going to react when hecklers tell them they are all white supremacist liberals. jesus fucking christ if you are hateful towards people don't whine when you get the response you deserve.

and most of the people howling about bernie supporters are hypocrites of the highest order, especially the white Hillary supporters who are exacerbating the race issue ad infinitum for partisan political gain.

[Prism]

72. President Obama's supporters were a massive problem

They attempted to grind the LGBT community into dust. Of course, that is forgotten ("It was years ago!" Unless you have eyes and five seconds to do a cursory search on DU, where you may observe plenty of vile statements in the recent past).

But, you know what? I voted for President Obama twice. In fact, even as his supporters explained away his outreach to virulent homophobes, I supported him very early on in the primary.

To this day, none of those supporters have ever apologized. Hell, they have never even self-reflected. I think many, if not most, of them would continue to defend their behavior given the opportunity. Some of them - to this very day - are still throwing down justifications for their vile partisanship and prime role as human shields for a politician.

But you know what? I still voted for the guy twice. His religiously motivated superfans never drove me off, they never kept me away from the polls, and they never convinced me to throw away my human and constitutional right to have my voice heard. And god knows, some of them really tried.

It's grimly amusing to watch some of those people now flip around and accuse others of being too partisan, too enamored with a politician, too defensive to hear what is being said by an oppressed community when they themselves have been cheerfully guilty of that same behavior for years on end in this space.

This is the worst medical school ever. So many physicians, and none of them with the lick of sense to heal themselves.

[Bluenorthwest]

89. A strong second to all of that.

But I will add that watching pompous hypocrites climb up on very high horses predicts a hilarious spill in the final hurdles.

[Number23]

73. K&R Happy to see so many addressing the issue at hand and calling this out over the ENTIRE

Internet. Lots of people doing so. A hell of a lot. And hopefully it will sink in sooner rather than later.

So proud of the black voices, particularly the black female voices, that are spearheading this and getting their message out. There are amazing, dynamic voices involved and it has exposed sooo much. Not that anything being exposed has come as a surprise to anyone black.

Lots of support for #BLM who I honestly believe have the support of most people. Or I'd like to believe anyway. This is important. THIS IS REAL. And they are taking it to everybody and I love them for it.

[TheFarseer]

78. vote for who you like

And I'll vote for who I like but please don't hold it against me if I try to campaign for my guy on the issues.

[SMC22307]

81. Was this before or after Black Twitter starting hurling...

the "white supremacist liberal" epithet and demanding that Bernie "bow down"? Cuz, yeah, fuck that.

[AgingAmerican]

87. Projection

nt

[Rosa Luxemburg]

88. Same thing in 2007

remember the old days Obama vs. Clinton