Here is why I am so disheartened by BLM and what they reflect

[Armstead]

The real meaning of the Sanders campaign is not about Bernie. It's much bigger than him, or any individual politician.

I'm a 62 year old white liberal/progressive. And I am not going to apologize for that.

And ever since the 1970's I have seen a process at work that is undermining the standard of living of almost everyone (except for a few at the top), distorting our economy and robbing everyone of opportunity, regardless of race or creed. And undermining the principles of democracy and replacing it with an oligarchy.

Finally, for the first time since I can remember, there is a candidate in the Democratic presidential race who is actually bringing core progressive issues into the mainstream campaign. After waiting for the Political Iceburg to start melting for over 30 years, that seems to me to be extremely good news.

The obscene concentration of wealth and power that has been occurring since the 1970's is finally actually an issue in an election. This is a core issue that affects everyone. And we ought to be talling about it beyond the circles of "progressive" politics.

No, it's not the cure all for racism -- but if we can improve the distribution of income, and broaden the power of the public interest, it can help to make everyone's lives better and makes it possible to reduce the pressures and results of poverty and deal more effectively with race and all other issues.

But Bernie has a very uphill battle to even be able to stay in the race to keep these issues in the campaigns.

If BLM and those who support them really want to make any inroads, they ought to realize the incredible importance of that. And instead of trying to embarrass Sanders and the movement he represents, it seems to me they ought to be encouraging it. Actually doing things to advance it. But at the very last -- NOT UNDERMINE IT.

Sure they may have differences over the way Bernie presents things, or whether the economic well being of everyone is more or less important than racial issues. Certainly a valid point of debate over time.

But Jeeze Louise. Sanders and the movement behind him represent the best chance -- maybe the first and last chance -- to actually get a seat at the table.

That's what makes me so sick of what is happening with this.

Go ahead. Fire away.

[cantbeserious]

1. Agree Completely With Your Perspective

eom

[RKP5637]

2. Agree! And definitely; "Sanders and the movement behind him represent the best chance --

maybe the lst chance -- to actually get a seat at the table."

[Gman]

3. All well and good. You're spot on defining the issues

However, from the BLM perspective, none of the potential for future progress matters now if you've been shot and killed by a racist white cop.

These racists will still be racists in good economic times and bad.

It's not an easy thing to reconcile. There are no easy answers.

[Armstead]

5. True but...

1)The chances of making progress on alleviating individual racial animosity and institutional racism are a lot better if the overall population and our institutions are not being sucked dry by a corrupt economic system

2) It's possible to walk and chew gum at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive issues.

[Gman]

8. No they're not completely mutually exclusive

better economic conditions alone do not fix racism.

And again, from their perspective, you have to be alive

[Vattel]

13. lack of economic and educational opportunity kill way more blacks than racist assholes with guns.

[passiveporcupine]

17. Divide and conquer

Make the people poor while you get rich, and to be sure you don't have to worry about them standing up and fighting for an equal opportunity, give them an enemy...someone they can feel better than. Someone they can blame for all their problems, so they don't think about you.

In other words, targeting immigrants as "job and wage stealers" means they won't actually find out you are the one removing their jobs and replacing them with low wage, part time service jobs. And keeping the urban blacks jobless, living in poverty and with gangs and guns, means they will never see a way out of that quagmire, so whitie gets to look down on blacks and let them be jailed for the only thing they can make a living at...selling drugs and guns, and it makes the rest of us feel better because we aren't doing that or ending up in jail or getting puilled over and shot all the time.

Lack of economic equality and jobs for young people (especially young black people in urban poverty areas) is absolutely essential to keeping blacks where they are and letting them be the bad guy.

The only thing they didn't count on was social media which is starting to show the world what is going on and who really is at fault. And Bernie gets that and has gotten it for a long time. And he wants to change that.

Of course all racism won't end with equal opportunity for a better lifestyle...but it will take a huge blow if we start seeing blacks moving out of urban slums and going to college and getting jobs and not joining gangs and selling drugs as their only option. And when they start doing that, the people they mingle with in college and in the work force, will finally get to know them and realize they are not inferior to whitie.

Bernie knows that economic equality and changing the system that keeps minoirities down is an essential part of eliminating racism. Not the whole ball of wax, but you won't get rid of racism without it.

[Live and Learn]

31. +1 nt

[onecaliberal]

53. +100000

[PatrickforO]

73. K & R!

[dreamnightwind]

6. What part of that says they should attack Sanders?

He is an underdog left-wing candidate with a shadow of a chance, and they work to squelch it for the benefit of an equally white corporatist who represents the powerful, not the eternally impoverised. They have it exactly backwards, and no recitation of "we are getting shot and there are racists everywhere" will change that.

[Gman]

21. If you're implying Hillary

You completely miss the point. In fact they'd love to have some of those nice jobs in those evil corporations if they didn't live in the inner city and had good educations and the opportunity

If you were an AA, none of that matters if you're dead.

[dreamnightwind]

47. They're not dead, and it is you who are missing the point - eom

[Ken Burch]

62. And Bernie cares just as much about stopping police violence as they do.

You can't point to a single time in which he ever dismissed the need to fight racism.

[PatrickforO]

74. No, dreamnightwind is absolutely right.

[jeff47]

9. Then why are they protesting someone who can't do anything until January 2017?

They want to pile up some more bodies first? How about protests for Obama or Lynch, since they can actually do something right now?

[Gman]

19. Lynch and Obama aren't running for prez

Furthermore Obama's DOJ is crawling all over PD's where Blacks get killed. They know he's doing something.

He can continue to talk about it but also maybe his supporters will get it too where ever these rallies are.

[jeff47]

34. No....he is prez. So he can already do anything they want Sanders to do in January 2017

And he can do it right now. Yet the bodies pile up. So perhaps there might be something more he or Lynch could do.

But that assumes this is about their stated goals.

[Gman]

46. When Eric Holder declined to prosecute the cop

in Ferguson, he said the law needs to be changed and strengthened. He couldn't build a strong enough case to convict under present law.

[jeff47]

49. And that can wait two years. No need to press for changes now.

Especially with someone in office who might just have some idea of the problems.

#BlackLivesMatterButChangeCanWaitAYearAndAHalf

[zeemike]

20. I pointed that out after NRN and got read the riot act by a poster on DU

And was told that AA love Obama and Holder and so they are not responsible...and I was just being a racist showing my white privilege.

It sees it does not have to make any sense...and bringing it up makes you the enemy.

[tularetom]

76. They should not protest Obama

He's done so much for them.

After all he sang "Amazing Grace" at the memorial service for the victims of the Charleston massacre.

You know, not some bullshit meaningless stuff like, well, marching with MLK or something.

[Ken Burch]

61. Do they still not believe that Bernie is with them on fighting systemic racism?

Will they keep believing that until Bernie makes his whole campaign about stopping police violence and nothing else?

[Gman]

64. I can't speak for them

But after all the comments last night telling BLM how to think I'm starting to wonder if it's aimed at supporters.

[ibegurpard]

4. what bothers me more than this

Is that the people who have been behind these protests so far are risking being dismissed as political operatives by targeting only Bernie Sanders. Racism is alive and healthier than it has ever been in my lifetime and bringing attention to it and police brutality cannot be allowed to be dismissed as political gamesmanship. I sincerely hope there are people who can do some organizing and strategizing in this organization. I don't claim to know what black people think but I have a pretty good handle on white liberals and calling them racists are just fighting words.

[Hydra]

10. They didn't just risk it, they did it

Their move today cried from the rooftops that they aren't a movement, they are a partisan strategy. There were hints of it before, especially when they did not reach out for any kind of unity among us. They had a unique opportunity to do something amazing, and they sold out instead to someone who will NEVER consider them as people, let alone as equals.

[Armstead]

12. Having watched them in action on the video I disagree

I think the people on the stage were sincere hotheads. That had a look I've seen before of people who have gotten so far into their own stuff that they have lost perspective.

Inexcusable. But unless they are incredible actresses they're not paid operatives, IMO

[ibegurpard]

14. That's why someone has GOT to step in and start organizing this

It's way too important.

[jwirr]

39. That is exactly what is needed. We need another MLK - 21st Century style.

[Vincardog]

71. Are you saying the TWO disruptors speak for all BLM? Is BLM an organized body or a loose collection

[Armstead]

79. I don't know. I hope not

I was addressing the behavior of the two women on the stage.

I was not saying all BLM condone and supports such behavior or was embarrassed by it. I don't know.

[840high]

51. ...^ that

[emsimon33]

41. This is what I find so disheartening

The police are murdering African Americans, even children. This is horrific, but the very movement that should be on the vanguard of ending this senseless violence and ending the marginalization of African Americans is playing political gamesmanship. They are permitting their movement to be hijacked for the political ends of others, others who will see to it that the murder, the imprisonment, the unequal justice, the suppression continue.

[djean111]

7. Then there is the fact that racism cannot be legislated away. The effects of racism can. n/t

[Triana]

11. 1000% AGREE. n/t

[azmom]

15. To the oligarchs in power black lives don't matter,

Neither do brown or white lives. They only care about money and power.

Remember who the real enemy is.

[840high]

52. Sadly you are right.

[totodeinhere]

58. And Bernie will fight those oligarchs. That is the whole point to his campaign.

n/t

[azmom]

68. That is what is frustrating. In order

To fight back, we need unity. We need millions of people to rally against an unjust system that is hurting black lives, brown lives and white lives. Let's all work towards unity.

[MyNameGoesHere]

16. When a race is hunted and murdered

in what seems like a daily occurrence, I cannot understand why the outbursts and disruptions aren't increasing, and with more aggressiveness. I know if I were a hunted race I would be scared and angry as hell, and looking for some payback. I think there is great restraint being shown. Don't know if I could do it.

[SHRED]

18. Outbursts and disruptions are one thing

Shooting yourself in the foot is another.

[MyNameGoesHere]

43. I am not being hunted for some sick sport

so I will refrain from lecturing those being hunted and murdered on the finer points of accepted protests.

[SHRED]

45. Targeting liberals is...

...shooting themselves in the foot.

[Ken Burch]

63. But they should only be protesting the people defending the murderers.

Bernie has never been an apologist for police violence at any point in his career. He has never been a minimizer of racist killers like the movie theatre murderer or Roof in SC.

Bernie has never let down the AA community at any point in his life.

[TNProfessor]

22. Exactly.

The number of threads concerned for Bernie versus those concerned for Christian Taylor tells me all I need to know.

[HooptieWagon]

23. BLM made it about them and Bernie.

They got their 15 minutes of Twitter fame...you think they care about a killed kid?

[Armstead]

26. Yep. We're all insensitive racists.

[romanic]

32. Christian Taylor

wasn't mentioned by Marissa and the other woman when they were up on stage.

And funnily enough, the two (or three) BLM Seattle FB pages didn't mention him either nor did Outside Agitators 206 (a group Marissa is apart of) mention him either. THAT tells me all I need to know.

[magical thyme]

24. but why do they target Bernie Sanders? What did Bernie Sanders do to that

incited them to target specifically him?

seriously, I could see outbursts and disruptions and protests on capital lawns, in town halls, etc.

But why are they very specifically targeting Bernie?

[Hestia]

30. Exactly - why aren't they going after the GOP with as great a zeal and vigor?

Seems he seems to be the only one targeted, it's like they want to shut him down, which, ergo, makes them seem like paid operatives mugging for cameras and getting the media to task that ONLY BS is racist, never the GOP or HRC.

This is suspicious.

[MyNameGoesHere]

37. Why not?

As a member of a race currently not being hunted, I have no answer for that. If I were in that situation might I take out my anger on anyone? Very possible. Might I be offended that people question how my race should properly protest? heck yeah.

[magical thyme]

60. but they aren't taking their anger out on "anyone." they very specifically appear to be

giving a pass to everybody *except* Bernie Sanders (and his supporters).

They're welcome to be offended that people the people they are targeting for harassment question how they are protesting. I don't know why that would surprising

[Babel_17]

38. It's possible that it's not truly personal, that it's tactical

First, let's stipulate that BLM is determined to air their grievances, and are willing to offend people if that's what it takes.

Ok, they have people who've thoroughly studied how the media works, and the current political climate. If they targeted HRC's campaign they'd bounce off her security wall and they'd just be the group in the distance shouting slogans. "Oh look honey, the Democrats are forming their circular firing squad.". "Oh my, and so early in the season!".

They'd get branded as being unrealistic idealists and people would wonder why they aren't thinking that they risk hurting HRC and giving the election to the Republicans.

Just a few months ago Senator Sanders was still considered a real long shot to win the nomination, so what harm in staging actions at his events? He has no wall of security and unlike HRC he can't rope himself off. Add to the mix some rationalizations of how his appeal to improving the economy for those on the bottom somehow shortchanges his message and record on race.

I think their goals were somewhat nebulous regarding what would happen after winning the microphone at these events but I guess it was basically about winning a victory for BLM, to getting recognized and their message heard. After dominating these events they then would have the momentum to take on events with greater security.

So the potential silver lining (for those who want to hear Sanders speak) after this latest event is that the unofficial referees of the media (and that includes bloggers) are all going to be watching for BLM to now expand their actions so as to take on Republicans and HRC events.

[jwirr]

40. But there is more going on here than looking for some payback. Bernie was targeted two times

and no one else was except O'Malley who was with him the last time.

Actually given the state of the country regarding both social and economic justice I am very surprised that things have not gotten more physical. I guess there are not enough pitchforks.

[snagglepuss]

48. What use is it to go after Progressives? It's beyond stupid. If they want something

symbolic, they should organize a march on Washington though that will hardly be enough since policing is a matter of state and local govts.

[MyNameGoesHere]

56. Why not?

Progressives are not angelic saviors of the race that is being hunted and murdered. I have no reason to lecture people on their outrage and how they choose to apply their protests.

[snagglepuss]

65. Detail one solid accomplishment by BLM Seattle that has

improved the situation of AAs in Seattle with regard to policing or anything else for that matter. Disrupting a rally is simply pissing in the wind, an empty, meaningless gesture. Other than expending their energy on this sort of empty act, have they a plan to achieve real reform?

[MyNameGoesHere]

66. Why do I need to critique

African Americans choice of protest? Is there a proper way they should have acted?

[snagglepuss]

67. There are effective ways to act and there is grandstanding.

This is grandstanding which is a meaningless act.

[MyNameGoesHere]

78. I get to name

one thing in your narrow definition? See you made my point.

[snagglepuss]

81. If there is more than one solid accomplishment I'll be impressed. Actually

I'd be sincerely impressed if they can point to one concrete way black lives have improved in Seattle as a result of their activism - any accomplishment other than the pissing in the wind antics.

[totodeinhere]

59. But why go after an ally? They should have been in Ohio disrupting that Republican

debate. That is where their real enemies were.

[zentrum]

25. Great post.

[Mona]

27. well said, agree completely - nt

.

[kcjohn1]

28. These distruptors

Doing BLM no favors.

Lets give them the benefit of the doubt. They are angry and want immediate change. The tactics of disruption is spot on. How is that going to be achieved by going after political outsider with little to no chance of presidency? You take down Bernie, you show what? You still don't have the attention of establishment dems.

I could understand this tactic if they were going after actual power brokers in Clinton/Obama/Loretta Lynch/.

[SusanCalvin]

29. We don't really know

Who "they" is. Anybody can say they're them. There's something to be said for hierarchy, or at least a modicum of organization/communication.

[Hestia]

33. Exactly. Lack of hierarchy ended Occupy way too soon. I know everyone wants it all right now

but great change times time to gel. Doing things in a hurry just brushes the issues under the carpet which is why we are seeing the same problems keep popping up. We never got them firmly solved the first time, which is why history repeats itself, worse the 2nd time around.

I just don't see what shutting down BS's rally proves or solves - other than to make him throw up his hands and walk away.

Coulda shoulda woulda...

[Armstead]

36. You're right

But there is a segment of people, and a movement, who are creating a schism that doesn't need to be there, and -- as noted in my OP -- is undermining larger progress.

I just find the mindset it represents -- and the actions -- very frustrating for the reasons stated above.

[tinkerbelle]

35. Exactly!

Why target the one politician who would actually do something positive for you?

[840high]

54. I keep thinking somehow

Hillary's fine hand is in this targeting.

[oasis]

57. I hated what happened to Bernie both times. You're wrong on Hill.

Her campaign has tremendous savvy and is too well disciplined to have any shady association
with a group that has no control over their own operatives.

[emsimon33]

42. K&R

[mudstump]

44. Bernie is making some very powerful

enemies with his message, huge crowds, and fundraising. The oligarchs and plutocrats that run this country or want to run it aren't going to stand by and let him continue to get his message out to the voters. His message and record threatens the status quo and they are going to come at him with everything they have got. Bernie is their focus and in their eyes he must be stopped. Bernie needs more money for tighter security.

[azmom]

69. They will do everything to stop him. Do not

Underestimate them. I agree, Bernie needs security.

[840high]

50. Big K/R

[StarzGuy]

55. No matter the candidate he or she can't be all things to all people.

If blacks can't or won't support Sanders then let them offer up their own candidate. I am sick and tired of hearing about black lives matter. It's now become a cliché.

[Babel_17]

70. "It's much bigger than him": Absolutely! And we love how he demonstrates that

Senator Sanders campaign reaches out and bores down to a fundamental need. We're desperate for honesty, competence, passion, and a record of being on the right side and fighting the good fight. We want someone who is just flat out not indebted to the groups that keep wrecking our country.

[PatrickforO]

72. You've got that exactly right.

We should all be embracing BLM's basic message. But the fact a couple of their leaders have ALLOWED this worthy organization to be co-opted by the establishment to attack the ONE CANDIDATE who will do the MOST to help the AA community as well as the rest of us...

Well, that's just sick. It makes me want to vomit.

[PatrickforO]

75. Armstead, I'm responding to this post because one person in the thread has once again

brought up the meme about the greater liberal community, especially white male progressives not 'telling black people how to think.'

I understand that to an extent. What this meme seems to be getting at is that a people who is being systematically oppressed and whose children are being shot down feel patronized by people like me who are asking OK, but why JUST Bernie?

While I don't seek to tell anyone else 'how to think,' I cannot help but point out that a whole bunch of people over the years have taught me how to think. Here are just a few:

1. Jesus, in the Sermon on the Mount
2. Martin Luther King Jr in his Letter From the Birmingham Jail
3. John Maynard Keynes in his General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money
4. Robert Reich in many writings
5. Joseph Stiglitz in many writings
6. Paul Krugman in many writings
7. Jon Stewart in many years of The Daily Show
8. Bill Maher in Real Time
9. Thom Hartmann in the Crash of 2016 and many other writings
10. Quite a few TED talks
11. Plato and Aristotle
12. Abraham Lincoln in his letters and speeches
13. Franklin Delano Roosevelt in many speeches
14. John and Bobby Kennedy
15. Lyndon Baines Johnson in his speeches supporting civil rights legislation
16. Ghandi
17. Karl Marx in his Capital and the Communist Manifesto
18. Selected high school teachers, Stratton, O'Meara, Wyeno, and Barbour
19. Selected college professors, Nation, and a couple whose names I do not remember
20. Selected professors in graduate school, Lasky and others
23. Many novels, movies
24. John Lennon, Bono, Bob Dylan, and other rockers
25. T.S. Eliot, Blake, Shakespeare, Milton and many other poets
26. Harper Lee, John Howard Griffin
27. Charles Dickens, Jack London
28. My mother, father, grandmother and grandfathers
29. Karl Jung, Erich Fromm and Viktor Frankl
30. Jean Paul Sartre
31. Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky and Naomi Kline

I'm sure the reader will get the idea. That's just a tiny smattering of all the people who have had a hand in telling me how to think.

See, here's the point I'm trying to make. If you just become angry and strike out, you will be put down brutally. If you study, learn and then think things through, you realize a plan is needed. Merely angrily storming a stage won't get anyone anywhere. And I'm not saying that because I'm trying to tell anyone how to think. I'm saying that because I've watched our rights disappear, the middle class get squeezed and this country turn backward 50 years in the last few decades. I see what I see, and if BLM doesn't make a plan and sell that plan to others who can (and are willing) to help, like Bernie, they won't get past being just a few more angry people.

That's how I see it, at least. Me and all the people who have told me how to think over my 56 years of life.

[tech3149]

77. Same age and situation as you, and same sentiment

I understand the sense of urgency on the part of BLM to bring a life threatening situation to the forefront of the discussion but it should be directed to every candidate for every office.
It doesn't make sense to me to selectively perform these grandstanding moves selectively.
It is embarrassing to me and gives me the impression their thinking is short sighted and not the best tactic.

[Uncle Joe]

80. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Armstead.