2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumi want to support bernie but....
im nervous. can he beat a GOP candidate. thats my biggest fear. as far as im concerned makign sure no rethug gets anywhere near the white house is priority #1. that means voting for teh candidate that has the best chance of winning the general.
i dont like hillary. but is bernie electable? i know that in a general election the key is the moderates/independents.
how many will be scared off by the word socialist especially when you have faux news ready to turn him into somekind of hard core old school ussr type of communist.
can he really win a general election?
then again,i live in texas so it really doesnt matter who i would suppport
Vinca
(50,271 posts)than in the primaries. I can understand your hesitation, though. Watch Trump. If he decides to run as a third party candidate, anyone nominated by the Democrats will win.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Many months til you'll actually have to decide, and there will be a lot of changes in polling between now and then.
I'm willing to bet by the time your primary tolls around, Bernie will be polling as well against Repubs as Hillary.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)The people of this country are THAT stupid, you just cant try to predict the general at this point.
I flipped from hill to bernie because he is more right on the issues and I like how straight forward he is.
I doubt he gets past the stupid to even win the nomination, but either he or hill will face a bizarre negative frame from the rs and media while whatever jackass gets the r nomination will get gussied up ... just the way it is, and again, just a matter of whether morz than 50 percznt of the country goes for it is the question
SonderWoman
(1,169 posts)IF.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)ismnotwasm
(41,980 posts)moobu2
(4,822 posts)The only thing he will do is throw the election to the Republicans. Either he and his worshipers will tear Hillary down so much so that she loses or he'll run as a 3rd party candidate. Even if he loses the primary and doesn't run as a 3rd party candidate, how on earth could he ever endorse Hilary Clinton after everything he and his worshipers had said about her? His ego wouldn't allow it and his worshipers view him as some kind of ideologically pure savior saint. They would see a guy who they thought was perfection incarnate endorse the American oligarch 1% corporate corruption bla bla bla...his worshipers would never see him the same way again.
daybranch
(1,309 posts)We are not Bernie worshipers, we just see what he supports and find that is exactly or almost exactly what we do too. Do not believe our sincere commitment to a progressive platform to be Bernie worship.
I wonder who you believe those who support Bernie are? it is not the weak kneed democrats that take no position without poll testing or being told by their so called leaders to do so. It is the older progressives within the democratic party joining , mentoring and appreciating the efforts of millenials to brighten the future of our people by working to stop unfettered capitalism and the oligarchy from destroying them and our planet.
We old progressive democrats have not actually had a candidate with our beliefs and values in my lifetime, For all the democrat party's stated admiration for Kennedy, we progressives knew he was not a great supporter of racial equality and there are many doubts if he would actually stand on the side of the people and challenge the oligarchy. Johnson took actions to support issues of racial equality but those that were there at the time recognize there was a great fear that blacks and whites would unite around a common cause, fighting wage enslavement and reducing the wealth and the control by the rich. Since that time, we have had Carter, a southerner with less than progressive beliefs when he took office but now we know h, e is probably the most honest democrat around. His willingness to speak out against the powerful around the world and now the oligarchy at home supports our vision. Then Bill Clinton, a triangulating, morally bankrupt leader who sold out the middle class with NAFTA and as a result destroyed much of the active opposition (Unions) to the oligarchy. Then we got Obama, who while not really a progressive was in our minds much more left than Hillary. Obama has been much better in many regards than we expected. But truthfully he has not done much to threaten the oligarchy and wins some minor concessions for the people but now reveals how much a servant of the oligarchy he is with his support of the Trans Pacific Partnership, a deal stripping all the member countries of national sovereignty as it invests great powers in the hands of the giant corporations and the billionaires.
Then comes Bernie Sanders. He ain't cool like Obama, he just tells us who he is, who we are, and what we are facing. and what we can do about it together. We activists know this is the long methodology of an organizers speech. We know it works to get volunteers because they are invited to do something great. We know so many believed it would be great that we elect our first black President, and now we know there are so many that think it would be great that we would elect our first female president. Yes this is a big factor in Hillary's support, and it comes for many with a belief that women are kinder and will better than men on social issues, war etc.
But when women look at Hillary they find she is running on being tough, being intelligent, capable, and pragmatic. But when progressives see her we see a a lack of idealism and an unwillingness to stand with the people. We care little about her clothes and less about her hair. We really, really, really, really hate many of her positions. But she does not get it. She seems to believe that we progressives who worked so hard to elect a black man are making her a victim of her own sex. We have to fight the impulse to elect any woman, and instead support a candidate whose stated positions coincide with ours and unfortunately for Hillary's campaign - with the majority of Americans. Hillary has a dilemma, she has the establishment democratic leaders who never challenge the oligarchy and she has the oligarchy's money to back her up, but history will show that progressives and the majority of America are mad at the oligarchy and their use of money. Bernie appeals to us because we are believers in a better future for ourselves, for our children, for working families and please do not believe it is Hillary's delivery of a speech that hurts her. People are actually listening to the words and the words just are not on her side. Bernie is no savior. We are the savior. Join us to do something great, take back our government from the oligarchs.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)There isn't one stop in his campaign that hasn't had to expand capacity or add a venue.
If the issues ARE real to you (we are, after all, on a Democratic forum), then it should clearly point to where the American people must go now.
Bernie Sanders can not only get elected, his surprising (to some) message is a long held mission. He speaks to everyone who isn't woo'd by "conventional (CNN, Fox, Network, and yes, even morning joe MSNBC) wisdom".
And, he's not making any bones about what it WILL TAKE, which is why I sense posts like yours are written from the perspective that you haven't been paying attention to what comes out of the corporatist candidate's mouth, versus what comes out of Bernie Sanders.
It's that simple, but it's interdependent. Inform yourself on these issues because if it's fear that you are caught up in, I imagine there will be plenty of that just by the "conventional wisdom" controlled by the oligarchy in this nation. Meanwhile, we have to commence with waking up to a reality of what will sustain the path to far large job growth through renewable energy production, lower draining of the GDP through a single payer health care delivery system and dissolving what has been enabled under Citizen's United
Personally, I don't care for fascism, or if you feel better with the term, corporatism. That's not the kind of leadership that sustains further hope of a Democratic Republic.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Keep an open mind. A lot is going to change over the next months. In my opinion, Sanders is making a point. It isn't all about winning. Don't get me wrong, he wants to, he just thinks he can take on the republicans with his arms tied behind his back. Most of us are pretty well aware he can't. Some have also watched him debate before. It's simply not impressive. Watch the debates and see if you are moved in a direction about your thoughts on electability. I have a feeling many here are in for a shock.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)He has been a Senator with the same voice and views for many years. Now the public & the other contenders can hear him
I wish Kerry was running too, even just to hear his views to contrast and add to Mrs. Clintons campaign. She needs these great Ds (needs Bernie too) I admire Bernie he already said on tv interviews, he will not attack the other D contenders.
newfie11
(8,159 posts)Listen to what he has to say, look at his record. Look at the number of people he's pulling in. Look how much he's up in the polls ( with no super pac). Watch the debates then decide.
There is no guarantee who will win unless vote tampering goes on.
You need to listen to Bernie and Hillary until election time and then decide.
If people vote for someone only because they think that person will win but not the best choice, that's not the way a democracy should run.
Unfortunately dear Debbie has been no help by ( FINALLY) scheduling debates to start in October and few of them.
I have no idea why this is underlined.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Cal33
(7,018 posts)And thanks.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)To do it by hand put a {u} before the underlined text and {/u} afterwards, only use square braces instead of curly ones.
newfie11
(8,159 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)and also afterwards (it will have toggled to /u). Or highlight the text you want to underline and then click the u button once.
DeeDeeNY
(3,355 posts)It may be the most important point
n8dogg83
(248 posts)What drew me to Bernie the most is that he has been making his presidential run more about building a popular movement than anything else. He is taking the long view, imo: he knows that he may not be the nominee, but by building a movement of millions of people who are politically active, whoever gets elected will have to deal with us and will have constant pressure to do the right thing. Also, by getting people involved who have so far been disillusioned with the process (a lot of young people, low income folks who usually don't volunteer are stepping up) he will raise voter turnout in the primaries and in the general. I think he will be able to defeat any republican in the general, especially if the establishment Democrats embrace him and his policies if he should become the nominee.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)kicking your post.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)Bernie appeals to all types of voters. Hillary will only get the Hillary vote. I think we would have had John McCain as president if Obama had not been around
Fearless
(18,421 posts)LWolf
(46,179 posts)Beating Clinton and getting the nomination is the bigger challenge. If we can get him there, he'll handle the GE just fine.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)As for the word 'socialist', we are no longer living in the McCarthy era. 7 out of 10 young voters WANT a Socialist Democratic Govt.
Only old cold warriors might worry about that word, mostly on the RIGHT. Who wouldn't vote for any Democrat anyhow.
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts).... we don't know yet.
That's what primaries are for. ( Among other things of course.)
If he lights a fire..... if he GETS THROUGH to people who don't vote because the system's rigged; or he gets through to others... working class whites, for instance ... esp. white MEN....who tend toward GOP because they sense only hostility and blame coming from traditional DEM party, id-group ideology.... then the answer is YES, he can be elected.
What we're looking to forge here is a REAL "Rainbow Coalition." White working classes weren't really ready to hear it in the 80s BUT THEY JUST MIGHT be able to HEAR IT NOW.
Great Recessions will do that to ya.