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Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:04 AM

"Bill Clinton’s Apology: Not Accepted!"

Bill Clinton’s Apology: Not Accepted!
by Herbert Dyer, Jr.
July 21, 2015

....big SNIP....

It was just this past week at the NAACP’s annual confab when Bill Clinton made a naked play for Black votes for his wife Hillary in next year’s presidential sweepstakes. Bill’s ploy followed a similar effort by President Obama himself. Now in his sixth year in office, Obama has had an epiphany of sorts. He has suddenly realized that there may be too many black people locked up and for no good reason. Thus, the President has issued a supremely belated call for an overhaul of the criminal justice system. He has even commuted the sentences of some 40-plus federal prisoners (out of 7,000-plus applicants and 30,000 overall) convicted under draconian drug laws. (Seems more like a commutation lottery than a compassionate or committed effort to right an obvious wrong).

Bill Clinton not only agreed with Obama but went so far as to say that the 1994 anti-crime law he enacted was a major reason so many Black men and women are now languishing in county jails, state and federal prisons, and are otherwise under some form of “supervision” by this nation-state’s “criminal justice system.” And both Obama’s and Bill’s belated “initiatives” follow Hillary’s own call for an end to the “incarceration generation.”

These political theatrics are so chock-full of hypocrisy and cynicism that it is just impossible to ignore: Bill and Hillary Clinton, President Obama, and Democrats and Republicans across the board have all considered Clinton’s 1994 anti-crime law as one of Clinton’s crowning achievements as President. Politicians of all stripes have consistently credited that law with lowering crime rates nationwide by essentially unleashing police forces onto Black communities to rid them of dangerous open-air, street corner drug dealers, uncontrollable drug addicts, shoplifters and other petty thieves of all description, unlicensed/unregistered drivers, illegal U-turners and lane changers, jaywalkers, and, of course, those dastardly public urinaters.

....SNIP....The devastating effects of Clinton’s law are now being felt by millions upon millions of people – mostly Black and Brown people. The numbers are well known by now: 2.2 million-plus people are now behind bars, double the number locked up when Clinton came to power. The US holds a full 25 percent of the entire world’s prisoners, while it constitutes only five percent of its population. Almost half of that percent are Black and Brown people.

The Clintons are counting on the forgiving nature of Black people....

Read in entirety~
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/21/bill-clintons-apology-not-accepted/

114 replies, 8627 views

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Arrow 114 replies Author Time Post
Reply "Bill Clinton’s Apology: Not Accepted!" (Original post)
RiverLover Jul 2015 OP
JDPriestly Jul 2015 #1
FlatBaroque Jul 2015 #2
PeoViejo Jul 2015 #3
For Freddie Jul 2015 #16
haikugal Jul 2015 #82
PeoViejo Jul 2015 #87
AtomicKitten Jul 2015 #4
RiverLover Jul 2015 #6
marble falls Jul 2015 #10
RiverLover Jul 2015 #20
HFRN Jul 2015 #40
RiverLover Jul 2015 #43
jwirr Jul 2015 #53
HFRN Jul 2015 #35
Doctor_J Jul 2015 #88
appalachiablue Jul 2015 #92
TM99 Jul 2015 #5
Elmer S. E. Dump Jul 2015 #13
Paka Jul 2015 #19
jwirr Jul 2015 #57
m-lekktor Jul 2015 #80
bvf Jul 2015 #7
classykaren Jul 2015 #8
RiverLover Jul 2015 #12
jomin41 Jul 2015 #9
jwirr Jul 2015 #58
Hoppy Jul 2015 #11
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #22
randys1 Jul 2015 #77
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #84
randys1 Jul 2015 #85
Elmer S. E. Dump Jul 2015 #28
HFRN Jul 2015 #33
7962 Jul 2015 #14
djean111 Jul 2015 #15
Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #23
djean111 Jul 2015 #26
Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #34
zeemike Jul 2015 #39
Adrahil Jul 2015 #45
stevenleser Jul 2015 #55
frylock Jul 2015 #72
jwirr Jul 2015 #61
Divernan Jul 2015 #17
RiverLover Jul 2015 #24
virtualobserver Jul 2015 #29
passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #93
GeorgeGist Jul 2015 #37
Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #18
Thespian2 Jul 2015 #31
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #21
SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #86
Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #25
HFRN Jul 2015 #36
d_legendary1 Jul 2015 #66
HFRN Jul 2015 #70
Doctor_J Jul 2015 #89
HFRN Jul 2015 #90
Name removed Jul 2015 #75
Thespian2 Jul 2015 #27
Suziq Jul 2015 #30
jwirr Jul 2015 #63
ericson00 Jul 2015 #32
Metric System Jul 2015 #65
ericson00 Jul 2015 #79
HFRN Jul 2015 #38
sulphurdunn Jul 2015 #41
HFRN Jul 2015 #42
Divernan Jul 2015 #44
hughee99 Jul 2015 #50
Ichingcarpenter Jul 2015 #46
RiverLover Jul 2015 #51
Plucketeer Jul 2015 #59
jalan48 Jul 2015 #47
RiverLover Jul 2015 #48
jalan48 Jul 2015 #54
haikugal Jul 2015 #83
kath Jul 2015 #56
Divernan Jul 2015 #49
SamKnause Jul 2015 #52
Galraedia Jul 2015 #60
stevenleser Jul 2015 #62
Metric System Jul 2015 #64
RiverLover Jul 2015 #68
RiverLover Jul 2015 #67
Galraedia Jul 2015 #71
delrem Jul 2015 #81
Beacool Jul 2015 #100
Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #69
Beacool Jul 2015 #101
Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #102
Beacool Jul 2015 #105
LWolf Jul 2015 #73
Name removed Jul 2015 #74
Phlem Jul 2015 #76
Capt. Obvious Jul 2015 #78
ibegurpard Jul 2015 #91
Oilwellian Jul 2015 #94
sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #95
Beacool Jul 2015 #98
uwep Jul 2015 #96
RiverLover Jul 2015 #97
Beacool Jul 2015 #99
DonCoquixote Jul 2015 #103
Beacool Jul 2015 #106
DonCoquixote Jul 2015 #111
oasis Jul 2015 #110
napi21 Jul 2015 #104
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #108
napi21 Jul 2015 #112
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #113
napi21 Jul 2015 #114
chknltl Jul 2015 #107
Fearless Jul 2015 #109

Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:25 AM

1. K&R.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:26 AM

2. Do not let the oligarchy fool you again

THEIR ccandidate is Hillary Clinton.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:32 AM

3. That Rhodes Scholarship came with a price.

 

Omerta.

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Response to PeoViejo (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:30 AM

16. All Presidents...

come with Omerta. You don't get to be president without cutting deals and having a sit down. On the positive side we all live under the Grace of his Noodly Goodness (FSM). He presided at my husband's memorial service.

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Response to For Freddie (Reply #16)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:33 PM

82. Arrrg! nt

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Response to For Freddie (Reply #16)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:48 PM

87. I get your drift

 

..I had my little sit-down too. Listened politely and did what I had to do. " You have a choice of a great career and a comfortable retirement or flip burgers for the rest of your Life." didn't sit very well with me.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:37 AM

4. Going from bragging about to apologizing for devastating policy is quite a journey.

 

Bill must want back in the White House really, really bad.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:53 AM

6. Really bad. If it comes up, I wonder if he'll also apologize for cutting funds for state

resource centers that supplied lawyers to those who couldn't afford one. Or the funds cut for prison conditions oversight.

....Clinton was eager to show he was "tough" on matters of "law and order." Running for president in 1992 while still governor of Arkansas, he flew back to Arkansas to oversee the execution of a mentally retarded man on death row. And early in his administration, he and Attorney General Janet Reno approved an FBI attack on a group of religious zealots who were armed and ensconced in a building complex in Waco, Texas. The attack resulted in a fire that swept through the compound, killing at least 86 men, women, and children.

Early in his first term Clinton signed legislation cutting funds for state resource centers that supplied lawyers to indigent prisoners. The result, according to Bob Herbert writing in the New York Times, was that a man facing the death penalty in Georgia had to appear at a habeas corpus proceeding without a lawyer.

In 1996, the President signed legislation that made it more difficult for judges to put prison systems under special masters to ensure the improvement of terrible prison conditions. He also approved a new statute withholding federal funds for legal services where lawyers used those funds to handle class action suits (such suits were important for challenging assaults on civil liberties).

The "Crime Bill" of 1996, which both Republicans and Democrats in Congress voted for overwhelmingly, and which Clinton endorsed with enthusiasm, dealt with the problem of crime by emphasizing punishment, not prevention. It extended the death penalty to a whole range of criminal offenses, and provided $8 billion for the building of new prisons.

All this was to persuade voters that politicians were "tough on crime." But, as criminologist Todd Clear wrote in the New York Times ("Tougher Is Dumber" about the new crime bill, harsher sentencing since 1973 had added 1 million people to the prison population, giving the United States the highest rate of incarceration in the world, and yet violent crime continued to increase. "Why," Clear asked, "do harsh penalties seem to have so little to do with crime?" A crucial reason is that "police and prisons have virtually no effect on the sources of criminal behavior." He pointed to those sources: "About 70 percent of prisoners in New York State come from eight neighborhoods in New York City. These neighborhoods suffer profound poverty, exclusion, marginalization and despair. All these things nourish crime."

Those holding political power—whether Clinton or his Republican predecessors—had something in common. They sought to keep their power by diverting the anger of citizens to groups without the resources to defend themselves....

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinnclicri23.html

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:15 AM

10. Or appologize about this:

http://rense.com/general5/fisacourt.htm


OPEN-ENDED SURVEILLANCE

When Clinton signed Executive Order 12949 on February 9, the frightening mandate of the FISA, court was greatly expanded: It now has legal authority to approve black-bag operations to authorize Department of Justice (DoJ) requests to conduct physical as well as electronic searches, without obtaining a warrant in open court, without notifying the subject, without providing an inventory of items seized. The targets need not be under suspicion of committing a crime, but may be investigated when probable cause results solely from their associations or status: for example, belonging to, or aiding and abetting organizations deemed to pose a threat to U.S. national security. Furthermore, despite a lowered standard for applying the Fourth Amendment against unreasonable search and seizure than is necessary in other U.S. courts, under the 1995 expansion, evidence gathered by the FISA court may now be used in criminal trials. Previously, evidence was collected and stockpiled solely for intelligence purposes.


LEGALIZING THE AMES SEARCH

Granting new powers to the FISA court was accomplished quietly and treated as a non-event in the national media. The lack of reporting was somehow fitting, though, following as it did the silent debate last year when Congress rubberstamped the annual Intelligence Authorization Act.

Some legal minds found the whole exercise positively refreshing. The fact that this was done with a minimum of fuss and posturing on both sides, and without having to have a debate that tries to roll up the corners of classified information is very impressive, cheered former NSA General Counsel Stewart Baker.

Reportedly, the Clinton administration had not always been enthusiastic about expanding the court's powers. Like its predecessors, it operated under the assumption that the executive already had inherent authority to exempt itself from Fourth Amendment constraints and could order warrantless searches to protect national security. Nonetheless, the government avoided allowing this inherent authority to be tested in the courts.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #10)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:35 AM

20. Wow. It really was a media black-out on this. I had no idea. Thank you mf.

The media plays right into their hands. At least they're consistent.

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #20)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:31 AM

40. the media does not 'play into their hands'

 

each respects the other, as team members

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Response to HFRN (Reply #40)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:35 AM

43. OK. You nailed it, and

I stand corrected.

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #6)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:15 AM

53. Thank you - in other words they promised much and gave nothing. Now that I look back I cannot

think of much that they did do for people of color.

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:01 AM

35. no, it's not

 

Best for Bill, then

Best for Hillary, now

they're record for consistency is unmatched

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:43 PM

88. No, he's evolved. Honest

 

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:16 PM

92. +1 NOT GOOD ENOUGH, BILL.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:52 AM

5. I have not forgotten.

 

I do not forgive.

I won't vote for another Clinton or another Bush ever again.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:22 AM

13. I hope to FSM that I NEVER have to do that again!

 



Bernie, you're our only hope, Oh, B. win!

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Response to TM99 (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:35 AM

19. Amen!

Apologies after the fact are worthless.

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Response to Paka (Reply #19)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:23 AM

57. Especially when they come so late and when it will benefit the one apologizing.

Talk about voter suppression - most of those sent to jail never will get to vote.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:50 PM

80. yes, the thought of that is quite repugnant. nt

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:55 AM

7. K&R. n/t

 

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:09 AM

8. NAFTA

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Response to classykaren (Reply #8)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:21 AM

12. ....Welfare "reform", repealing Glass-Steagal, China PNTR, Outsourcing, Telecommunications Act.

The list goes on & on.

But all people remember is the economic bubble he created while in office. Lucky for him & his wife that the bubble burst after he left office.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:10 AM

9. "supremely belated", in-fucking-deed.

The wod was outrageous 25 years ago. It was outrageous 15 years ago. It was outrageous 5 years ago, and it is STILL outrageous. How many lives have been ruined SINCE its outrageousness has been obvious??? What kind of a "democracy" allows policies this self-destructive and counter-productive to exist and persist, year after year, AFTER the outrageousness becomes obvious???

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Response to jomin41 (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:28 AM

58. And when we ask how many lives were ruined we must not forget that it was not just the

individual that went to jail that was hurt. It also hurt the family. in fact when you see how many families were broken up by those actions you actually have to see that the whole AA culture was turned upside down.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:20 AM

11. "The Clintons are counting on the forgiving nature of Black people...."

 

--and it looks like they are benefiting from that "nature."

Isn't Bill considered "Black" by many?

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Response to Hoppy (Reply #11)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:38 AM

22. NO!!! HE IS NOT!

 

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #22)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:41 PM

77. Just noticing your sig pic for the first time....It makes me uncomfortable, I as a white person

insist that you acknowledge the progress we have made.

I am not used to discomfort when it comes to race, you know.

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Response to randys1 (Reply #77)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:28 PM

84. Damn, I forgot what it was, R1! LOL!

 

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #84)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:34 PM

85. A stark reminder of where we all live

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Response to Hoppy (Reply #11)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:50 AM

28. The First Black President!

 

oh, how that rubbed me the wrong way.

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Response to Hoppy (Reply #11)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:59 AM

33. they're counting on the forgiving nature of tech workers too

 

with everyone they stuck it too with H-1b visas

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:26 AM

14. But this will get NO media attention because she has already been selected nt

 

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:27 AM

15. I decided a while back that I will not vote for another Clinton.

 

Yes, I know I have to leave DU if she is the candidate.
And everyone who buys into the Clinton "Apology for Anything That Might Affect Hillary" Tour theatrics - and that is what we have here, smug and calculated theatrics - YOU say hello to President Walker. You got this. If you end up with President Hillary, get ready to eat your peas.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #15)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:39 AM

23. No, you don't have to leave DU if Hillary is the candidate.

Once the primaries are over you can't say that you won't vote for the D, that's the only constraint. And there are ways you can get around it. For example: My two Senators, Boxer and Feinstein split their vote on the IWR. Boxer voted against it, Feinstein voted for it so I say things like, "I proudly cast my vote for Barbara Boxer." I let the reader figure out the rest.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #23)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:48 AM

26. Thanks.

 

I am still trying to figure out why posting Bernie Sanders' record is considered harassing and bullying, but being lectured that not supporting Hillary means Hello, President Cruz/Walker/Whatever is not.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #26)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:00 AM

34. Don't try to figure it out.

Cult of Personality has no logic.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #34)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:27 AM

39. Nailed it...n/t

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #34)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:38 AM

45. So Clinton supporters are a "cult of personality?"

 

How courteous.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #45)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:19 AM

55. It's particularly rich given how Bernie supporters have behaved in the wake of BLM

 

Any affront to their candidate results in a mindless attacking response.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #45)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:08 PM

72. Apologizing for instating bad policy seems to be a greater virtue than fighting against bad policy..

that is identity politics in full effect.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #23)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:35 AM

61. Also I am doing what I can to help Bernie win including donating money. If he loses I will not

work for Hillary. Let do it herself. I will stay at DU but my avatar will stay the same as it is now and that will be that. And I will prepare to lobby my congress people to stop her 3rd Way bull.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:30 AM

17. Clintons "co-presidency" produced Bill & Hilary's "incarceration nation"

Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:09 AM - Edit history (1)

(more from the OP link)
The Clintons are counting on the forgiving nature of Black people. It is hoped that just as the families of the nine massacred Black parishioners of Charleston’s Mother Emanuel Church forgave mass murderer and domestic terrorist Dylann Storm Root, Black people will forgive the Clintons as well. But whether intentional or not, the Clintons’ “law and order” policies have destroyed far more Black lives than Dylann Root could ever even imagine.

Actually, the Clintons are demanding more than forgiveness from Black voters. They also want Blacks to forget that it was Bill Clinton and his co-president wife who signed welfare “reform” into law; who abandoned a perfectly qualified Black woman, Lani Guinier, to head the Justice Department; who oversaw the precipitous decline in “wealth” among poor Blacks even as a minuscule number of “middle class” blacks made slight (and oh so relative) financial gains.

But more than anything else, the Clintons demand that Black people forgive and forget that it was they who encouraged and helped finance a prison building boom; and who then sicced 100,000 mostly white cops on Black communities nationwide and herded black people into Bill and Hillary’s “incarceration nation.”

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Response to Divernan (Reply #17)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:40 AM

24. THANK YOU Divernan for posting this excerpt! Its probably more relevant than the portion

I posted. But we only get to post so much to keep in line with copyright rules & I posted the main topic. What you posted is even more important. I hope it gets read by many.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #17)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:52 AM

29. stage 2: Post-incarceration plus the war on drugs

 

Getting out of prison after an extended sentence is stage 2 of the horror of this. When you combine the difficulties with adjusting to release, the absence of jobs, the difficulty of getting a job as a felon.

Moving from prison to homelessness with few options is no picnic in the park. Bad options are sometimes the only options.

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Response to virtualobserver (Reply #29)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:00 PM

93. "the difficulty of getting a job as a felon."

Which is even worse for a black person, as getting a job even without a felony is already more difficult for them.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #17)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:11 AM

37. Rhymes with strangulation.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:34 AM

18. And now Clinton's Letter To The United Daughters Of The Confederacy?

 



http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/heres-a-1994-letter-from-president-bill-clinton-to-the-unite#.oewNyA6RQ


As the battle over removing the Confederate battle flag from atop the South Carolina Capitol heated up this year, leaders of relatively mainstream groups like the Heritage Preservation Association, the Sons of Confederate Veterans and the United Daughters of the Confederacy shared the podium with the likes of the LOS and the Council of Conservative Citizens — despite the latter groups' clearly expressed racism.

The political cross-pollination between these neo-Confederate organizations is also seen in the large number of cross-memberships among their leaders and activists.

https://web.archive.org/web/20150707053636/http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2000/summer/the-neo-confederates

oh my



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Response to Cheese Sandwich (Reply #18)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:53 AM

31. Thanks

I have not read this letter before, but the dolt-headed sentiments are completely normal for Bubba...


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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:38 AM

21. Hillary and Bill Clinton's behavior in 2008 was deplorable.

 

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #21)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:38 PM

86. I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention, but

When she said, in essence, "McCain and I are good on foreign policy [I believe it was] but I dunno about that Obama guy," it got my attention, and aroused my ire. Caused me to make the first donation in a primary race in my life.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:41 AM

25. Tried to tell many people this, but DU has blinders on. They simply ignore how devastating

 

Clinton policies were to this country.

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #25)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:02 AM

36. NAFTA, MFN-China, H-1b visas

 

a baseball bat to working people, and a huge gift to the billionaire class

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Response to HFRN (Reply #36)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:57 AM

66. Yup. He did something Ronnie Raygun couldn't accomplish

And after that the War Shrub kicked it up a notch by rewarding companies that outsourced. The year I bought my Dell Computer was the year that Dell shutdown their North Carolina plant.

Thanks Bubba! That service economy you left us with is reeling in the dough!

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Response to d_legendary1 (Reply #66)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 11:05 AM

70. yup, he created a 'service economy' - then immediatly insourced (H-1b visa) and outsourced it to

 

India

IMO, nearly all of the job angst since 2000 can be traced to NAFTA, MFN-China, H-1b visa (and the outsourcing it facilitates)

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Response to HFRN (Reply #36)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:44 PM

89. DOMA, DADT

 

Simply put, he's a corporate cnservative. So's his wife.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #89)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:50 PM

90. DADT was a bridge policy

 

it was as far as the public and the military were willing to go at the time

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Response to Liberal_Stalwart71 (Reply #25)


Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:49 AM

27. K & R

Bill Clinton put enormous hardships into the lives of millions of Americans...We are now beginning to realize what a destructive force his administration was...and the effects are still being felt...Murderer Bush and Corporatist Obama have simply enlarged upon the destruction begun by Raygun, H. W. Criminal, and Big Dog Bubba...What a landscape of misery these evil people created!!

There is no Clinton apology acceptable to the masses of black and brown people who are still brutalized by his policies...

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:52 AM

30. What a bunch of "told you so's"

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Response to Suziq (Reply #30)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:50 AM

63. I don't think these are told you so statements. A lot of us fell for them twice. And some of us

fell for them in 2008. These are the reasons we will not be falling for them again. And as to why our eyes are finally open? Well, the protests in Ferguson MO went a long way in telling us what was wrong. We will not forget again.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 08:56 AM

32. Remember Willie Horton?

 

or remember how between 1968 and 1988, we had the same vote-winning record as the GOP has now: lost 5 out of 6 popular elections. Remember in those years, MI, NH, CA, IL, CT, NJ, VT, ME, DE, MD and PA voted Republican at least 4 out of 6 times (most 5 or 6 for 6). Now those states all have perfect Dem records since 1992 (except NH in 2000). Before Bill Clinton, states like New York were swing states. Dukakis won there by less than 5, Mondale and Carter '80 lost, and Carter barely won there in 1976. Urban crime was once a huge issue you know.

I don't think the law was perfect, but its easy to forget how different the attitudes and the times were

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Response to ericson00 (Reply #32)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:55 AM

65. Stop talking reality on DU!

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Response to Metric System (Reply #65)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:46 PM

79. I thought talking unreality

 

was for Republicans!!

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:13 AM

38. article 'The Overcriminalization of America'

 



yes, by THAT 'Charles Koch'

The Overcriminalization of America

How to reduce poverty and improve race relations by rethinking our justice system.

By CHARLES G. KOCH and MARK V. HOLDEN

January 07, 2015

As Americans, we like to believe the rule of law in our country is respected and fairly applied, and that only those who commit crimes of fraud or violence are punished and imprisoned. But the reality is often different. It is surprisingly easy for otherwise law-abiding citizens to run afoul of the overwhelming number of federal and state criminal laws. This proliferation is sometimes referred to as “overcriminalization,” which affects us all but most profoundly harms our disadvantaged citizens.

Overcriminalization has led to the mass incarceration of those ensnared by our criminal justice system, even though such imprisonment does not always enhance public safety. Indeed, more than half of federal inmates are nonviolent drug offenders. Enforcing so many victimless crimes inevitably leads to conflict between our citizens and law enforcement. As we have seen all too often, it can place our police officers in harm’s way, leading to tragic consequences for all involved.

How did we get in this situation? It began with well-intentioned lawmakers who went overboard trying to solve perceived or actual problems. Congress creates, on average, more than 50 new criminal laws each year. Over time, this has translated into more than 4,500 federal criminal laws spread across 27,000 pages of the United States federal code. (This number does not include the thousands of criminal penalties in federal regulations.) As a result, the United States is the world’s largest jailer—first in the world for total number imprisoned and first among industrialized nations in the rate of incarceration. The United States represents about 5 percent of the world’s population but houses about 25 percent of the world’s prisoners.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/overcriminalization-of-america-113991.html#ixzz3gX0GfSGL






more below
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/overcriminalization-of-america-113991.html#.Va5E_PkYH5w

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:31 AM

41. How much money

 

is the presidency worth to an ex-president? At least for the Clinton and Bush families the post-presidency has been worth millions, with the Clintons way ahead.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:33 AM

42. 'The Clintons are counting on the forgiving nature of Black people...'

 

when a politician say's 'I know I can count on you' the translation is 'I know I can screw you and get away with it'

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:35 AM

44. Pres. Clinton pardoned his own cocaine-sniffing brother.

Mr Clinton also pardoned his own brother, Roger, who was convicted for cocaine possession in Arkansas and who was among a number of drug offenders that Mr Clinton believed had been punished too harshly.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1318811/Clinton-grants-pardon-for-his-drug-offending-brother.html

Too damn bad Bill can't give ex post facto pardons to all the victims of the Clinton co-presidency's let's-fill-the-profiteering-private-prisons policies. Thrown in jail for a couple of ounces of marijuana, or for lack of a competent defense attorney and saddled for life with a criminal record which prevents fair employment opportunities.

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Response to Divernan (Reply #44)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:07 AM

50. Perhaps he'll promise pardons galore if his wife

Gets elected.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:40 AM

46. His giving George W Bush credence and legitimacy revolted me

Let alone hanging with his homies at papa Bush's house should make anyone shudder.

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Response to Ichingcarpenter (Reply #46)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:29 AM

59. Just the thought of him

 

gives me the Willies! Hill'nBill have had the same "favorite song" for TOO long to all of a sudden drop it for a truly progressive ditty!

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:42 AM

47. Conservative Democrats masquerading as liberals.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #47)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:04 AM

48. Yep.

Or, to me, it seems they are something even worse, masquerading as Democrats.

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #48)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:17 AM

54. LOL

That has a lot of truth to it. My understanding is that Clinton and his group decided to write off Progressives and go after the Wall St. money. I don't think the Progressives have the money to compete with these folks. It's going to be an interesting primary and convention. I think it might have a bit of 1968 to it. At what point, as a Progressive, when you realize you have been played for the last 20 years, say enough? Once you wake up it's hard to go back to sleep.

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Response to jalan48 (Reply #54)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:06 PM

83. Yep.

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #48)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:23 AM

56. This.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:07 AM

49. In the U.S. as in North Korea, whole families also suffer by association w/ criminals

North Korea is notorious (at least among those who are minimally informed about North Korea) for imprisoning 3 or 4 generations of those labeled "criminals". No formal accusations; no trials; just thrown into prisons for life. Grandparents, parents, children, grandchildren - thrown into prisons, many doing slave labor working in mines.

Isn't that horrifying? Inhuman? But look at the real world impact on families of people convicted of minor and victimless crimes in the U.S. (And many's the wealthy American who avoided conviction/incarceration via a well-paid, competent defense attorney.)

Their ability to make an honest living through employment in a vast number of areas is destroyed for the rest of their lives, and through that destruction, their ability to financially support not only themselves, but their parents, their spouses or their children.

“Guilt by association” is one of the hallmarks of the political prison camps. Family members of those suspected of crimes are imprisoned in an effort to sow fear and silence dissent. The list of crimes that can get you sent to a camp is long and includes the simple act of listening to radio or television broadcasts from South Korea. Often, people never even learn the reason they were sent to a camp.

In 1987, Dr. Oh’s wife and two daughters were sent to Yodok political prison camp, which holds an estimated 50,000 men, women and children. (Yes, children.) Although authorities deny the existence of political prison camps in North Korea, Amnesty International has verified that Yodok is one of at least six such camps in which 200,000 political prisoners and their families are held. We know this because we’ve seen the camps via satellite photographs, and we’ve spoken with former guards and prisoners who were there.


http://blog.amnestyusa.org/asia/families-imprisoned-in-secret-camps-in-north-korea/

Clinton can give slick speeches until the cows come home. If he's really sorry, let him put $50 million of his post-presidential private wealth/money (not even talking about his Family "Foundation"'s hundreds of millions) where his slick mouth is as a start to making up to the generations of Americans his tough-on-minor&victimless-crimes policy has destroyed.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:13 AM

52. K&R

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:30 AM

60. I really wish the supporters of Sanders would stop attacking the Clintons.

Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:23 PM - Edit history (1)

The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 was a result of the 101 California Street shootings and the 1993 Waco Siege. Polls had indicated that the American public placed crime at or near the top of the list when asked to name their civic concerns. Tougher sentences and straight marriage were popular stances in the 1990s, even if they're not today. And the law also enacted a Federal Assault Weapons Ban and required all states to pass legislation requiring sex offenders to register with state sex offender registries. It was passed by both a Democratic controlled House and Senate. Bill Clinton obviously didn't sign it with the intention of hurting black people. And rather than dancing around the issue, he is at least willing to apologize and disavowed part of it.


I like both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders and wish some of us would stop trying to eat our own.

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Response to Galraedia (Reply #60)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:44 AM

62. I explained what was going on when this all first started. It was Bernie fans attacking Hillary

 

and Hillary fans responded.

Hillary folks would not bother with Bernie if his fans left Hillary alone. I used an NYC analogy. Yankees fans vs Mets fans. Yankees fans don't think about the Mets. But Mets fans hate the Yankees and talk and think about them a lot. Yankees fans would not say bad things about the Mets at all if Mets fans weren't constantly saying stuff about the Yankees. Of course, we Yankees fans respond when a Met fan says something about our team, but otherwise, the Mets wouldn't occupy a single thought in our minds.

Same thing here. If Bernie fans weren't attacking Hillary, there would be none of this going on.

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Response to Galraedia (Reply #60)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:54 AM

64. Shh...Facts and history don't matter.

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Response to Metric System (Reply #64)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 11:02 AM

68. Shhh....Conservatives' spin of facts & history isn't appreciated here. /nt

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Response to Galraedia (Reply #60)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:59 AM

67. Many on the left during that time knew better. It wasn't the right thing then, nor now.

"Tougher Is Dumber"
New York Times, 1993

Newark.--Polls show that crime is once again the No. 1 issue among city dwellers. And elected officials, ears to the ground, are responding with measures like the new Federal crime bill, which will let Congress spend billions of dollars over the next five years to hire more police officers and build more prisons.

The idea always sounds reasonable enough: tougher law enforcement and punishment should mean more compliance with the law, less crime and eventually a better quality of life in the cities. The trouble with this theory is that we have been following it for 20 years without much success.

Since 1973, as a result of a vast nationwide increase in criminal sentences, imprisonment has risen more than fourfold; we have added a million citizens to the prison and jail population. More than 1 in 40 males 14 to 34 years old are locked up. No other nation has had so much growth.

If such toughness had much to do with crime, you'd think we'd have seen some results by now. But surveys of victims show that overall crime has decreased only 6 percent since 1973; violent crimes are up 24 percent. The National Research Council of the National Academy of Sciences recently concluded that a tripling of time served by violent offenders since 1975 had ``apparently very little'' impact on violent crime.

Why do harsh penalties seem to have so little to do with crime? There are two reasons....


Read more from 1993 here~
http://genius.com/Todd-clear-tougher-is-dumber-annotated

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #67)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 12:16 PM

71. That still didn't change the tough-on-crime rhetoric of the 1990s or public opinion.

Many candidates campaigned as being tough-on-crime and won, including Clinton. Minus the assault weapons ban, the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 wasn't controversial at the time. But you're right, some did know better. Bobby Scott (D-VA) voted against the bill because it didn't do enough to support prevention programs. But regardless of the facts, public opinion won.

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Response to Galraedia (Reply #60)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 03:32 PM

81. RIght. One can't blame a weathervane for the actions of the wind.

One can't even blame a human-weathervane of a politician for the location it plants itself, amid the various prevailing winds. The only thing that's important is if the weathervane is painted blue or red, or in very special cases if the weathervane is painted blue overall, but with a bright red pointer.

Politicians are like political pundits, that way. Blameless. How can one blame a FOX pundit for pointing in tandem with the other weathervanes amid the winds at FOX? Or an MSNBC pundit pointing away amid the winds at MSNBC? Like politicians, political pundits are innocent of their words and actions. They are just things, weathervanes by nature, and it's just too damn bad that the vast majority of them are planted so the winds are at the backs of the rich.

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Response to Galraedia (Reply #60)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:43 PM

100. That's all they got.

Attack, attack, attack. They like to preach to the choir on LW sites. As if it will make any difference in the long run.

I just and it all becomes background noise.


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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 11:04 AM

69. I'm not real anxious to forgive and forget on that either.

 



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Response to Cheese Sandwich (Reply #69)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:50 PM

101. Yes, a first lady, senator and SOS should just spit at people she doesn't agree with.........

You do realize that most of those pics come from official functions, right?

Ahhh, the nonsense one reads here.





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Response to Beacool (Reply #101)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:56 PM

102. It's my signature line

 

It seems to be causing some confusion because people think I am actually posting those pictures. Possibly this signature line is more trouble than it's worth, because of this confusion. It's new. But she does seem to enjoying the events.

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Response to Cheese Sandwich (Reply #102)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 11:33 PM

105. That's what it takes to be a politician and a diplomat.

You smile at people, even those that make you cringe.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:15 PM

73. Forgive and forget:

The Clintons are counting on the forgiving nature of Black people. It is hoped that just as the families of the nine massacred Black parishioners of Charleston’s Mother Emanuel Church forgave mass murderer and domestic terrorist Dylann Storm Root, Black people will forgive the Clintons as well. But whether intentional or not, the Clintons’ “law and order” policies have destroyed far more Black lives than Dylann Root could ever even imagine.

Actually, the Clintons are demanding more than forgiveness from Black voters. They also want Blacks to forget that it was Bill Clinton and his co-president wife who signed welfare “reform” into law; who abandoned a perfectly qualified Black woman, Lani Guinier, to head the Justice Department; who oversaw the precipitous decline in “wealth” among poor Blacks even as a minuscule number of “middle class” blacks made slight (and oh so relative) financial gains.

But more than anything else, the Clintons demand that Black people forgive and forget that it was they who encouraged and helped finance a prison building boom; and who then sicced 100,000 mostly white cops on Black communities nationwide and herded black people into Bill and Hillary’s “incarceration nation.”

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)


Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:38 PM

76. It's a adolescent tactic and they all do it.

Just do the thing and then apologize later.

My little girl is awesome at it.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 02:43 PM

78. "Not good enough"?

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 07:54 PM

91. He's got a lot more to apologize for than that

And Hillary wants it both ways...share the spotlight when people remember the Clinton years fondly and be her own woman when people start examining the warts.

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #91)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 09:05 PM

94. +1 n/t

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:06 PM

95. Nor should it be. Hillary is going to have a Minority problem once people learn

about the records of all Candidates. Which is why they are working so hard to distract from the record.

Thank you for sticking to the ISSUES. That is the only thing that will provide the FACTS about all of the candidates.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #95)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:37 PM

98. No, she won't.

But keep hoping that she does.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:14 PM

96. Sad to see Dems eat their own

Bill manager to end his term with a surplus and many other accomplishments but none of that matters. I know all of his faults, but he got things done even when repugs did everything to disassemble him. That is right there are repug lite here.

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Response to uwep (Reply #96)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:19 PM

97. Sad to see Democratic leaders enacting republican policies. Over & over. /nt

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Response to uwep (Reply #96)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:40 PM

99. Tune them out.

It's better for one's blood pressure. Why waste your breath?

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Response to Beacool (Reply #99)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 10:58 PM

103. because

come next year, the Hillary campaign will need those same minorities to win Florida, even though the Dylan Roof and Koch Bros contingent will be out ready to beat up and harass them. When you have to summon to fortitude to deal with cops and crazies, the idea that "elect me, and I will only hurt you 50 percent as much as the GOP" will NOT help.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #103)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 11:37 PM

106. And minorities will vote for her.

Despite the attempts of some people to portray minorities as not supporting the Clintons, that is not true. Or do some of you really think that Hispanics, AA, Asians, gay and women would rather vote for whichever clown the Republicans nominate?

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Response to Beacool (Reply #106)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 12:22 PM

111. Some will

but I am talking about the folk who will need to suffer an incredible amount just to vote, the ones that will literally risk their jobs and lives. Are you going to think people will stand in five hour lines just to vote for someone that really likes many of the same people that make them powerless?

This is a game of inches, 2000 was decided by a few hundred votes, most of them squandered by Ralph. It will take enthusiasm to win.

But in case you will just keep ignoring that, I ask you a simpler question: what is Hillary's plan to keep Florida from being stolen, AGAIN. We know what Debbie Wasserman Schultz plan was, run Charlie Crist for governor, and that failed.

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Response to uwep (Reply #96)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 03:52 AM

110. Hang in there, in time, things will settle down around here

Then we go after the real enemy. Hillary gives us our best chance of winning. More than a few on this thread are already aware of that.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Tue Jul 21, 2015, 11:13 PM

104. Do you remember what prompted that change to the law?

I remember how outraged almost everybody was that judges were handing out drastically different sentences for the exact same crimes. How, if the guilty party "knew someone", they could have been to court a dozen times for the same offense and get a slap on the wrist, while another a person committed the same crime, but far fewer times, received 10-15 years!

It really was the majority who called their congress critters to DEMAND "mandatory minimums" because the judges were not doing their job.

Thinking back to that now, I realize we should have known that ACROSS THE BOARD MANDATES never work. There are always unforeseen circumstances.

Bill signed the law mainly because so many people thought it would cure the problem. I think he really is sorry he did, and I accept his apology.

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Response to napi21 (Reply #104)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 03:38 AM

108. All those spoiled rich party girls doing primo lines in the bathroom...

 

As opposed to some black guy with a little crank.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #108)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 09:23 PM

112. Not ONLY THAT. White guys convicted of holding or selling cocain were

sentenced to 6 months suspended while the black kid with a small amt. of crack got 5 years! It didn't only involve drugs either. There were drastic differences in the sentencing for all different crimes. MANY repeat offenders got off with a smack on the wrist, while other "not connected" people got long terms for first time offenses. That's where the mandatory minimums AND the 3 strikes you're out program.

Although I personally have not been affected by those laws, I'll be very happy to see them GONE! I'm ashamed of my Country when I hear that we lead the world in # of prisoners. Shame of us all.

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Response to napi21 (Reply #112)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 10:30 PM

113. That 3 strikes was often waved for white kids.

 

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #113)

Thu Jul 23, 2015, 01:27 AM

114. Sorry. That part I didn't know. I assume it was waved in the cases of the "connected ones"

because I KNOW it wasn't ALWAYS waved. I knew several whites who served long sentences because of the 3 strikes law.

My only reason for pointing all of this out is to get everyone to understand there WAS a valid reason to enact these laws, and as usual, the unintended consequences prevailed.

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 02:54 AM

107. KnR

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Response to RiverLover (Original post)

Wed Jul 22, 2015, 03:42 AM

109. The Clinton campaign is afraid in other words.

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