Hi, I am an actual liberal who supports Hillary Clinton

[Godhumor]

I have been here a long time and find DU to be my home on the internet. I read even farther back than that (found the site through the top ten conservative idiots feature), but i finally joined after witnessing the aftermath of an off duty cop killing a teenager in Rockville, MD. Unfortunately, i didn't get my log in credentials (back when they were approved via email) until after the thread on the shooting had sunk. Regardless, I have been here every since.

So you don't have to go searching through my post history I can summarize who I am very quickly:

Pro-equality
Pro-social reform
Pro-tax reform
Pro-science (One of my hot button issues. I tend to lose it around anti-vaxxers)

And so on.

I started my adult life as a teacher for six years, went back to school and moved onto banking for three years (Not the big investment banks). Decided that life wasn't for me and moved on to strategic analysis in the marine transport industry.

I work with numbers and analytics every day, so I can sometimes come off as arrogant or condescending when discussing things like polls, sample sizes, economic data and such. But the way these kinds of numbers work is something I am a legitimate expert in.

I also like Bernie. Quite a lot. I would be more than happy to vote for him if he won the nomination. But my primary choice is Clinton; just as it was in 2008.

Why? I just like her. I think she has been a very successful politician and represented my home state as a senator very well. I think she did a great job as Secretary of State. I am pragmatic and think she has the best chance of getting stuff done that appeals to me, even if it means compromising on some issues. This is much the same reason I think Obama has been a phenomenal and consequential president.

I am not trying to change anyone's mind through this thread, because, good lord, you won't change mine. But I wanted to post this because there are real liberals who do support Clinton. We are not neo-liberals or pocket Republicans or conserva-Dems or anything else. And DU is home for a lot of us. And while we may disagree on our first choice for president, we are in agreement on many, many things. That is why we all find DU to be so addicting after all.

My real name is Brian. My first choice is Clinton. My second is Sanders. DU is where I belong, as do all of us.

(Also if there are any strange words in the above screed. I just typed this one thumbed using auto complete. Just in case if instead of president it says presentation or such.)

[Skinner]

1. Thanks for posting.

Good to see a heartfelt positive post about Hillary. I hope everyone responds in the same sprit that you posted it n

[Godhumor]

5. Thanks, Skinner

Love the site. Always have.

[SCantiGOP]

62. Here's another Kay and Arr

Thoughtful post, and one I can recommend 100%.

[Iliyah]

2. K & R

[handmade34]

3. good to hear...

[beam me up scottie]

4. I respect that, Godhumor.

I'm sorry that your liberal cred is being questioned simply because of your choice of candidate.

I don't doubt it, if that means anything.

I believe you.

~ bmus

[madfloridian]

6. I believe most of who support Bernie Sanders will vote for the winner of the primary.

Issues have meant a lot to me. I think posting about them is necessary for a full picture.

If I criticize Hillary or any other candidate it will be on policy and issues.

[LondonReign2]

7. Well said

I disagree with your choice but definitely respect the way you explained yourself.

[Vattel]

8. I appreciate your feeling that Clinton is more likely to be able to get stuff done.

But I guess that, based on her record, my worry is that some of what she might get done would be really bad, e.g., starting another bad war. She has a record of being too cautious and sometimes too conservative on progressive issues like prison reform and marijuana legalization and marriage equality, and she has sometimes been clearly wrong about immigration and border control, and about many national security issues. Sanders would be less likely to involve us in a bad war and his SCOTUS nominations would probably be more progressive. His economic vision would probably be obstructed by Congress, but the same is true for Clinton. So on balance, even conceding that Clinton would be more successful at getting stuff done, I would prefer Sanders.

[Godhumor]

9. And I think that is great

I really do. I will admit right up front, Sanders had performed much better than I ever expected him to. It is clear he has tapped a well of discontent, and I want to see where it takes the national conversation.

[Vattel]

22. I don't think his odds of beating Clinton are good, but I still got hope.

Thanks for the civility.

[lunamagica]

10. K&R.

[artislife]

11. I respect your post.

[sheshe2]

12. Thanks for posting.

[oasis]

13. Kick for a positive thread.

[daybranch]

14. The real issue is and has always been economic equity

Bernie is for it and Hillary works for those who wish to increase economic inequity. Pretty simple choice if your eyes are open.

[raindaddy]

17. Bottom line!

There's been a class war waged on the middle class and we've put up with it long enough. Bernie wants to end it Hillary does not...

[George II]

15. Good post, thanks. And I was drawn here by "Top Ten Conservative Idiots", too! Miss them.

[SunSeeker]

19. Me too! nt

[TheProgressive]

16. Thanks for your post godhumor...

I, too, am a liberal. I consider myself a progressive, too. And, I am a FDR, JFK, and Teddy Roosevelt (yes!) progressive Democrat as well.

I will be voting for Senator Sanders.

But, I must admit, I do not like Clinton as a Democratic presidential candidate.

I guess that is all I need to say...!

[SunSeeker]

18. You speak for me, Godhumor. Thanks for the post.

[MisterP]

20. but her failings on equality/reform/etc. aren't from compromising, she starts with a wrong

stance and pushes it further; she's relying on her liberal supporters to suppose that "50th time HAS to be the charm--and if not, I'll just pretend she did the best she could!"

[JaneyVee]

21. Hey, are you a fellow NYer?

[Godhumor]

23. Buffalo at the moment

Western NY is starting to get some much needed love.

[daleanime]

24. Great! I've been waiting to meet you.

Still waiting to meet a Democrat who's excited about Hillary's campaign. Any chance you could swing though NY?

[Godhumor]

33. I live in Western NY

Feel free to swing by and say hi.

[daleanime]

34. Cool!

Down here in the Finger Lakes.

[Godhumor]

37. No shit! Whereabouts?

Was just there hiking in Watkin's Glen a few weeks ago (Easy hike to bring a little one along).

[daleanime]

40. Aw, man, that's my old home town.....

Mom still lives there. Although she hates the traffic in the summer. Hope you had a great time.

[murielm99]

25. Thanks for the post.

Liberals get socked from all sides. The repubbies have tried to turn the word "liberal" into a dirty word. The group that passes for the left in our party mocks us and says we are Dinos. Most of us are just hardworking Democrats who support our candidates and our party and vote for them.

I have always supported HRC, too. I will continue to do so, and I will vote for her in the primary and the general. She is a winner.

[Laser102]

26. Wow! Thank you. That's how I feel too.

[whereisjustice]

27. I'm a liberal and in high tech and have seen how policies of NAFTA and free trade, and Wall Street

banks have decimated the middle class. I also work with numbers every day at nanosecond intervals, billions of samples, packets and various pieces of information. It is something I am a legitimate expert in.

But guess what - that doesn't mean shit. You don't need a PhD in bean counting to see the damage Clinton and her 3rd way, corporate-first policies have done to the USA. In fact - that is all the Clinton supporters see - numbers in the form of dollars to her bank account.

This is a woman who had the arrogance to say her grandkid “has just as much God-given potential as a boy who was born in that hospital on the same day.” http://www.salon.com/2014/10/02/eyeing_2016_clinton_calls_for_female_empowerment/

(on edit: I guess she is referring to the same opportunity that Chelsea Clinton had to work as a "special correspondent at $600,000 a year" for NBC, which involved the special duty of interviewing the GEICO lizard.)

Born into a one of wealthiest and well connected families in America and she's crying about her own grandkid's lack of opportunity, on the day she was born? Jesus - since she was at the hospital she should have had her ears checked because your gotta be stone fucking cold tone deaf to utter something so stupid during the worst crisis of inequality and injustice in American history... and wasted no time throwing a newborn baby under the campaign bus. Just another underprivileged Clinton. Thank god there were doctors there.

It gets harder every day to make a living in the US as H1Bs flood the US and jobs hemorrhage to China and India. Tax credits, tax refunds, tax cuts for companies shipping jobs to India, China, and soon to be Vietnam.

Clinton says these are jobs that are helping to build those poor, poor nations.

(sniff, can I borrow a hanky?)

Fuck that.

These jobs are helping make the rich, richer. Meanwhile, they ask us to shine their shoes and polish their cars.

Which reminds me - the elite, 3rd way Democrats like Clinton. The "Wall Street Elite".

There needs to be something between the 1% and 99%. With Clinton - it's all about the 1% the elite, the best. And if you are not fortunate enough to be in that 1%? You are not worth shit - and your job is off to China (who, these days, is acting very much like they want to kill all of us).

With the elite, you get scolded for not working hard enough as they pass law after law making it harder for you to get ahead. You get an education system that is run like a goddamn corporate designed factory assembly line - god help you if you get filtered out. You get privatized schools, privatized hospitals, privatized health policy - everything for the corporate sector - all on the bullshit principal that profits = quality.

And then, you look at the 100,000s of dead and trillions of dollars that our horrible wars have taken away from the world and you see a leader who should be humble and contrite - instead we get arrogance and double-speak and triangulation.

So, in the 1% club, Clinton is bound to be the best candidate. But for 99% of all working families, among the worst.

Clinton stands as the ZERO change candidate. A continuum of bad (corrupt?) officials plunging the middle-class down the toilet with 3rd way, voodoo economics.

It doesn't take bravery to stand up and give support to the elite status quo like Clinton who have enormous concentrations of power. Seriously, we can find this 24/7 on NPR or CNN or CBS or ABC. Lots of brave souls there supporting Jeb or Hillary because - you know, only they can "win" even though we are over a year away.

Oh, btw - when you say you are not trying to change anyone's mind, it really means you are actually trying to change someone's mind.



We don't need someone who is going to rope off the middle class like a Queen in a monarchy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. You literally took her words and stood them on their head

You literally took her words and stood them on their head and not like Marx did with Hegel but in a bad way.

This is a woman who had the arrogance to say something like "I want to make sure my granddaughter has every opportunity..."

She said she wants every child to have the same opportunities as her granddaughter does because she is acknowledging her granddaughter is born into great privilege and consequently has opportunities that are boundless.

[whereisjustice]

35. So much bullshit, if she isn't dead broke, then her grandkids don't have equal opportunity... fixed

and so on. It's easy to get them mixed up.

I fixed it just for you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. Spare me the scatological language. It never works is my milieu anyway.

Sounds like a noble sentiment to me.

I have always believed that every child should have the chance to live up to his or her God-given potential. ... world today will grow up with the same opportunities as Charlotte

Oh, and the rope line was there to prevent reporters from interrupting a parade, not to keep out the "middle class"... They would need a bigger rope.

[whereisjustice]

41. “has just as much God-given potential as a boy who was born in that hospital on the same day.”

One thing is for sure.. she believes her assent to the presidency is god given. But I believe Wall Street had something to do with it too.

Money is stronger than religion.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. If you don't believe that boys and girls should have the same opportunities there is ...

If you don't believe that boys and girls should have the same opportunities there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion.

Boys and girls should have the same opportunities and all children should have the right to realize their God given potential regardless of their parents or grandparents' station in life.


Hate on...

[whereisjustice]

43. Clinton using her grandkid as a disadvantaged child for a campaign prop to garner sympathy

is truly revolting. This sort of bullshit is just as vomit inducing (oops, sorry, you have sensitive ears so let me rephrase this)

Such infantile chicanery renders the even those with the strongest constitution weak of stomach.


(pun very much intended).

Its the same "salt of the earth" plea for sympathy when she declared herself "dead broke".

If she'll say anything and manipulate everyone to get elected, she'll say and do anything to avoid the responsibility that comes with the office.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. She said boys and girls and poor boys and girls should have the same opportunities as rich boys...

She said boys and girls and poor boys and girls should have the same opportunities as rich boys and girls.

[Godhumor]

36. See, the difference between you and I is that Bernie is my second choice

I doubt Clinton is yours.

And arguing in the primaries forum to change minds in a highly engaged Democratic community is farcical. Most of us here already know who we're voting for.

But thanks for letting me know that I have an agenda beyond identifying that Clinton has a legit base here in DU, and that we all call this place our community.

[HFRN]

49. ^+ 1,000,000 nt

[DanTex]

50. I used to work in tech alongside H1-B visa holders.

They were all great people, and I consider myself the better for having worked alongside them. If you work in tech, and are complaining about H1-Bs, then maybe you do need that PhD after all.

[HFRN]

53. i wonder if you really do work in tech

because anyone who's worked along anyone in tech would know that getting a phd doesn't necessarily make one more marketable, sometimes even less so - and that a tiny percent of work H-1bs do is phd level

it also makes me wonder if you took econ101 - or understand how indentured servitude puts a citizen at a comparative disadvantage

[DanTex]

54. I said I used to. That was before I got my PhD.

So, yeah, I understand what H1B visa holders do, and also what PhDs do.

[HFRN]

56. do you really think it's practical for everyone concerned about h-1b

to 'just get a phd?'

[DanTex]

57. No. I said I worked with H1B holders before my PhD.

Meaning that I didn't have a PhD at the time. It hasn't been my experience that people with skills in science, engineering, programming, etc. have trouble finding jobs in the US. The economy has been struggling, true. But it's not because of H1B visas.

In my opinion, the reason there aren't more Americans in science and engineering are partly cultural and partly educational.

[HFRN]

59. tell that to someone who trained their H-1b replacement, then was fired

'But it's not because of H1B visas. In my opinion, the reason there aren't more Americans in science and engineering are partly cultural and partly educational. '

like they were at Disney

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html?_r=0

yeah, it has nothing to do with H-1b visas - right

[whereisjustice]

58. lol - H1B's can increase a companies profits considering...

1. if they don't do exactly as company wants, they'll get sent back to their country - no chance to resign, no chance to change jobs.

2. They come for a caste based society where small tasks such as fixing their errors and defects are subjugated to lower castes making it very difficult to get errors corrected, wrongs righted.

3. Use all the benefits of being a US employee to learn as much as they can before heading back to India or China to take all that knowledge to a company in India or China who will then compete with US companies.

4. They displace American workers by working for lower wages.

5. Subject to abuse by "elite" management types and PhDs who view them as virtual slaves without same protections as American workers.

6. now being hired to manage teams in India and China who find it offensive to be managed by US citizens in the US.

7. Displace US students as wealthy families from Asia flood US schools driving tuition costs up and out of reach of American workers who don't have a chance at decent jobs because of all the off shoring and H1Bs.

and that's just for starters.

Considering that China and India still can't get indoor plumbing and electricity to nearly half their respective populations, and given the environmental disasters, shoddy infrastructure, poverty and corruption... this is the source for technological experts?

What is it that makes workers from India and China so attractive? Right. Because they live with disparity and injustice, they are used to a lower quality of life and aren't likely to complain about it as it develops in the US. Perfect employees for the 1%.

It is a horrible fact that the US is now achieving the same social balance as Asia - corruption, disparity and injustice. Citing standardized test scores from a carefully vetted students in Asia are just an excuse to lower ourselves to the horrible working conditions of those countries.

The US built the world's best infrastructure and technological advancements with a US workforce educated in US public schools and universities. A US worker is now a minority in many tech corporations and can no longer afford college.

This is driving profits to the 1%, killing the middle class, and destroying communities and opportunities for millions of Americans who are struggling against a push by the "tech elite" to drive them into poverty. Just like Asia.

Sure the 1% are rolling in cash - all on the backs of US workers fired for demanding a quality of life better than that of the Asian countries taking their jobs.

Because I know how hard Americans worked to build what we have, I fight back when I hear H1Bs are better than US workers. It is complete BS designed to threaten US workers into accepting lower pay and standard of living. The difference goes directly into the pockets of the 1%.

As far as Hillary - if you are in the 1% and think H1Bs deserve US jobs more than Americans, Hillary is the right choice for you.

[Scootaloo]

28. Okay. Do what suits you man. n/t

[m-lekktor]

29. nice post!

[DrBulldog]

31. If Hillary was such a great Secretary of State, then . . .

. . . our relations with Iran went absolutely NOWHERE for four years until Kerry took over?

[whereisjustice]

38. She was just treading water until she could run for president. She didn't want to do anything...

except shill for Israel and Keystone and some potential benefactors to her foundation which is all perfectly legal from what her supporters say.

[DrBulldog]

32. Well, O.K. I can see that because Hillary is a liberal in some sense, but ...

... Bernie is NOT a liberal, he is a PROGRESSIVE. He wants to lift up the middle class and the poor WITH REGULATION to prevent fraud and abuse. And more and more people every day are coming to understand that liberal policies and goals have failed simply because there was no regulation to protect them. And Bernie has known the beneficial power of rights-with-regulation his entire life.

[calimary]

45. Howdy, Godhumor! Great post! I'm with you! I'm another proud liberal who prefers Hillary.

Last edited Sat Jul 18, 2015, 12:41 PM - Edit history (1)

I'll vote for Bernie, of course, if he wins the nomination, because I like him, too. But I seriously doubt he can go the distance. I also think too many people will be scared off (unreasonably) by the "avowed Socialist" that I've heard - almost SPAT out of the mouths of various republi-CONS. ted cruz does that all the time - "a-VOWED Socialist!" And ironically they're likely to be the very same people at the teabagger rallies who are holding up the protest signs, spelled wrong, that scream - "get your government paws OFF MY MEDICARE!!!!" They want their Social Security and Medicare and yet they scream against socialism. And yet, then, they insist on voting for the very party that wants to take all of that away from them. Go figure.

I don't think they'll be scared by that, I KNOW they'll be scared by that. Ridiculous but true. Hillary doesn't have that baggage. And she has a towering intellect and a fabulous resume, and more gravitas in her pinkie fingernail than carly fiorina could hope to have in ten lifetimes.

And yeah, you and I share another view, too. Gotta say it - I just like her. I have ever since I first discovered her as the wife of then-Governor Clinton, and I liked what she said and how defiant she was and how she wasn't afraid to make it in a man's world, and she wasn't afraid to buck the stereotype bland harmless political wifey image. She had a mind, a brain, and opinions - all of them well-informed and considered. And I wanted those brains of hers enlisted to work for the whole country. I still feel the same way.

And, for me as a longtime feminist, I want a WOMAN in that job for a change. And for the first time in my life, we have a woman candidate who actually qualifies, and is actually fit for duty! For the first time we have a woman candidate who is actually imaginable - as sitting behind THAT desk. It's really not that implausible to picture her at work in the Oval Office, even if it's just an exercise in imagination. She's already got the executive management thing. We're already told by reports from her former State Department staffers that she was a terrific boss to work for. Seriously, could you picture sarah palin seated behind the Resolute Desk? It's not such a preposterous, impossible, implausible, easily-dismissable idea - with her. We've had 44 men. We've had 43 white men. It's time for a different mindset. And it's no more unthinkable than having had a woman Speaker of the House, or not one but two Vice Presidential major-party nominees, Secretaries of State, Attorneys General, Supreme Court Justices, or woman Governors, Mayors, Senators, or Congresspeople. In the private sector, too. CEOs (carly fiorina notwithstanding). It's just no longer unthinkable to see and imagine women in these positions. Used to be, in any one of the last six categories just mentioned, women in those positions were oddities. Odd (wo)man out. No longer!

We need to strip away the last barrier. Particularly at a time when women's issues tend to be shoved to hind teat, pardon the pun. That there's STILL such a powerful movement in this country to intrude upon, even commandeer women's bodies, women's reproductive rights, women's sovereignty over our very physical being! I'm not sure a man could ever fully wrap his mind around that one, unless it would be men with personal experience or knowledge of slavery, I suppose. The reality of having someone else dictate what you're allowed to do with your body - at its most intimate reaches. YOU are not your own master. Somebody else has that authority. YOU do not have the last word. Somebody else does - who doesn't even know you. NO MORE!!! Time's UP. That era is OVER. Time to stick a fork in it, not only with reproductive rights but pay equity and workplace issues and family-related issues that impact women most directly.

And there sure as hell won't be ANYBODY addressing her cavalierly with any sexist, patronizing "hey, honey..." if she goes all the way. She will forge a new template. With her in "The BIG Chair", that tilts the axis. That totally revolutionizes the way professional women are regarded. The Presidency, too, as an institution, lays this whole 'nother fabric over whoever is in that job. It's one of the most exclusive clubs in the world. But it should no longer exclude women. It will in many respects revolutionize how women are regarded, and increasingly respected. Around the world. There have been other female world leaders and heads of state. But no woman yet has sat in the Captain's chair on the bridge of the Good Ship USA. THAT is the BIG one. Women will have asserted the ultimate equality if Hillary wins. If so, she will have won one for women everywhere, and closed a chapter, in woman's history, that needs very much to be concluded. It's TIME. And we finally, actually, startlingly, have an individual who is well-suited, highly competent, heavily experienced, and not unimaginable in the Big job, at the same time as that Big job opens up. Ready for Prime Time.

We're certainly finished with it being impossible and unthinkable that an African American could win the White House. That's OVER! Now, women need to get that done, as well, and send it off to history's dustbin. We may not get another realistic shot at it for years. And should she win, I would expect the President after President Hillary Clinton would almost certainly be another man. Probably an Anglo. I would not expect to see another woman or person of color for awhile - unless there's another one who comes outta nowhere with real charisma. nikki haley in the future? I doubt it. I don't see any realistic female up-n-comers at this moment, anyway, in either party. Oh, there are quite a few women in the various farm teams, but nobody stands out. At least for now.

Crap - went on a little long. Sorry.

[Godhumor]

46. Not even going to attempt to match you in length, so I will simply say

Loved the post and the message. Thanks for the positive contribution to the thread.

[BooScout]

47. Bravo!

Brilliantly and eloquently stated!

[HFRN]

48. i noticed none of those 'pro-'s were 'pro-worker'

or 'pro-working class' or or 'pro-middle class'

but she's definitely been 'pro-banker', 'pro-trade agreement', 'pro-guest worker visa'

[Godhumor]

64. I noticed you didn't say you were for any of the pros I listed so I can conclude you're against them

Last edited Sat Jul 18, 2015, 07:09 PM - Edit history (3)

Silly game to play.

[HFRN]

68. sorry, i didnt realize they were such trivial issues

' I noticed you didn't say you were for any of the pros I listed, so I can conclude your against them'



very sensible attitude on your part


and by the way 'so I can conclude your against them'

it's "you're", not "your" in that context - it's a contraction, not a possessive

[DanTex]

51. Great post. KR.

[sufrommich]

52. k&r. Great post. nt

[Cha]

55. Aloha Brian~ Mahalo for your post.. very endearing.

[colsohlibgal]

60. To Each His/Her Own I Guess

I don't get it, why a supposed liberal would support a neo liberal when there is an ultra liberal in the field?

I don't dislike Hillary I just question a lot. Like all the money she's gotten from Wall Street. And her not coming out against the TPP (or for it for that matter, her campaign has been full of nice phrases with no detail). It brings out the Clara Peller in me, as in where's the beef?

Then there is that vote in favor of invading and bombing Iraq.

So as an ultra liberal my first choice is Bernie, 2nd choice O'Malley.

[Gregorian]

61. So what you're saying is you're ok with much of our present situation.

I find this irritating: someone likes Clinton's positions, but decides that it's ok to live with some of the greed and corruption we have right now by not taking the serious steps we need, that Bernie will take. Clinton will not do what Bernie will, as evidenced by their history.

[Godhumor]

63. Actually, yes, I am pretty happy with how the past eight years have gone

We're certainly much better off than we were under Republican leadership. See, I accept that to get eighty percent of what I want, the other twenty percent may involve compromising. Obama was a fantastic president who moved the needle significantly on social issues I really care about. Clinton knows how to lead like this just as well as he does.

[Gregorian]

65. I agree about Obama, but we're talking about Hillary.

And that goes back beyond Obama's administration. We're at inflection points in both the economy and the environment. We can't change without a massive force, which takes involvement. Hillary isn't getting people involved. Isn't going to happen. You're right, it will be just like it has been, which is not ok for many people. It's not just about you and I. It's about changing the system. We're still being run from the top down. That's what has to change. Furthermore, Hillary's Iraq war resolution vote is where I draw the line. I don't need a president who is easily duped.

Honestly, the only thing I see that really matters is citizen participation, which is only being initiated by Bernie. I want a higher minimum of the bar than just doing what we've been doing.

[Godhumor]

66. Sorry, guess I misunderstood your previous post

I took being happy with the way things are now as a snark that Obama didn't do enough. Apologies. My point was I see Clinton in the same mold as Obama.

I am all for expanded citizen participation. And, even though I am not voting for him in the primary, I do think it does everyone good nationally that his message is heard.

[Sheepshank]

67. Loved the op and how you presented your position

A hearty k&r