2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy do we keep trying to save rubio's rear end?
right now he is twisting in the wind getting ripped by conservatives over immigration. LET THEM!! rubio is, or was, the likely 2016 nominee. why in the hell are we now going to pretend to hire 20,000 border agents just to try and save his sorry ass? i say let that jackass twist in the conservative anti-immigrant tornado.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)They all really want the cheap labor that drives down American wages. This has nothing to do with being humane or any of that horseshit. The end game is to please the owners.
mgcgulfcoast
(1,127 posts)let the bill fail because of rush and hannity and then we will win big in 2014 and 2016.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)The elected people are. 99% of them anyway.
mgcgulfcoast
(1,127 posts)MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)Money talks. It's the only language spoken in Washington since Reagan the Destroyer was swept into office by massive landslide victories. The game is pretty much over.
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)Only Congressional DINOs are for it. Reagan's amnesty kept Republicons in power long time.
karynnj
(59,524 posts)(I say if, because I have not read of an addition that was added because of criticism.) They need 60 votes in the Senate and to win the House - they need 50% and they need Boehner to bring the vote to the floor.
So, if they added these, consider it a small Southwestern stimulus package.
It is true that if this passes, it could be both a major asset and a burden for Rubio. I don't know if there is enough time for conservatives to have accepted that they are closing the border better enough to justify the millions legalized (not American citizens, but legalized.) If the conservatives view this as "caving" to Obama, then he may not have a real chance at the nomination. If he does get the nomination, this would be a major accomplishment that he can brag about. That and the fact that he has been positioning himself as a serious foreign policy guy might make him the tea party's most electable person.
mgcgulfcoast
(1,127 posts)karynnj
(59,524 posts)Getting an immigration bill passed is of critical importance to millions and is important to the US living up to its values.
While I think being able to say that he was one of 8 or so people who made the bill possible is something he will have and which he should be proud of. If he runs and becomes the nominee, that will be something he has. It will not make him an impossible person to run against. He is after all a tea party person - with votes to prove it. I don't think when the facts are there that someone that extreme could win in a large number of states. He also supposedly (I never looked into it) has some personal baggage.)
mgcgulfcoast
(1,127 posts)why do we have to lick his sorry ass?
karynnj
(59,524 posts)It is likely that the Senate will have more Republicans than now and very little usually happens in the 2 years before a Presidential election. If the votes are there now, it is important to make it happen now. It is not clear when the next real chance will happen.
This is NOT about helping Rubio - who, pass or not pass, will have some rock bed right wingers furious with him.
mgcgulfcoast
(1,127 posts)karynnj
(59,524 posts)I see what is one of the few real opportunities to pass something that will at least improve a very bad situation for millions of people. You see a possible "gain" for a potential Republican nominee. In a way, you are arguing that we help kill the bill. As I said the bill is a mixed blessing for a Republican. Remember how McCain completely did a 180 on his position to make himself viable in the primary? Remember Romney sounding idiotic speaking of self deportation? This is not a popular position for the right. (I suspect that it may mean that Rubio will NOT run in 2016 when it will be too fresh -- hoping to be in position when it is not something angering the base in 2020 or 2024. He is young enough that he can do that and be better positioned to win. )
Arkana
(24,347 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)whose face and who exactly is spiting us? How many concessions to Rubio and DiFI and Durbin does it take?
I was told that merely allowing discrimination against LGBT people would let the bill sail through unhindered, this was why it was good, according to centrists that they cut our protections. Now another concession, what's next?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)If anyone who is a regular person benefits from it, I am glad for that. I hope they know the benefit was stolen from others who suffer injustices for their sakes.
mgcgulfcoast
(1,127 posts)we can do better after 2014
Proud Liberal Dem
(24,473 posts)it's about getting a bill passed. Admittedly, not a perfect one but it could lead to an improved situation for a lot of people in the long-term. I didn't think that "kill the bill" was a good strategy with health care reform and it's not a good one for immigration reform either, regardless of who is helping with it. If we're worried about politics, a win on this looks really good for President Obama and Democrats as well. What does it matter if Rubio gets to share a little credit on it or not (though I've had the feeling that he's been groping for an escape hatch from the start).
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)It's the same labor breaking con job that Reagan used in the '80s to get votes for Republicans. This "immigration bill" push along with Republicans refusal to vote on the Presidents appointments to the National Labor Relations Board is a concerted effort to destroy unions and lower wages. There are too many youngsters here that are easy to wool pull with politically correct sounding bs.