Last Word goes there: Donald's snorting !!!

[JoeOtterbein]

He replayed each snort from last night over and over ! Will he go full Trump is a Coke head !!!

[Ilsa]

1. Or pulmonary disease! Emphysema, maybe? nt

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

3. I"ve known people with pulmonary disease

and they didn't sniff like that.

I'll confess to being completely unacquainted (so far as I know) with any coke-heads.

If I'd been in that room with Donald I'd have told him to blow his nose and stop sniffling. And handed him a tissue.

[Ilsa]

6. Something really weird going on. Maybe he'll tell

Billy Bush.

[yeoman6987]

51. I wonder if it's not on purpose

He does this to keep from the media focusing on other trump destruction.

[MADem]

10. Someone here at DU said PICKWICKIAN SYNDROME and I think he is right.

Obesity hypoventilation syndrome (also known as Pickwickian syndrome) is a condition in which severely overweight people fail to breathe rapidly enough or deeply enough, resulting in low blood oxygen levels and high blood carbon dioxide (CO2) levels.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_hypoventilation_syndrome

Obesity hypoventilation syndrome (also known as Pickwickian syndrome) is a condition in which severely overweight people fail to breathe rapidly enough or deeply enough, resulting in low blood oxygen levels and high blood carbon dioxide (CO2) levels. Many people with this condition also frequently stop breathing altogether for short periods of time during sleep (obstructive sleep apnea), resulting in many partial awakenings during the night, which leads to continual sleepiness during the day.[1] The disease puts strain on the heart, which eventually may lead to the symptoms such as heart failure, leg swelling and various other related symptoms. The most effective treatment is weight loss, but it is often possible to relieve the symptoms by nocturnal ventilation with positive airway pressure (CPAP) or related methods.[1][2]
Obesity hypoventilation syndrome is defined as the combination of obesity (body mass index above 30 kg/m2), hypoxemia (falling oxygen levels in blood) during sleep, and hypercapnia (increased blood carbon dioxide levels) during the day, resulting from hypoventilation (excessively slow or shallow breathing).[2][3] The disease has been known since the 1950s, initially as "Pickwickian syndrome" in reference to a Dickensian character but currently under a more descriptive name.[2]

A Brit kid caught this months ago....

[duncang]

34. One news show on cnn showed another possible reason

But it could be a combination of things though. The being over weight plus his back. Even though he is the healthiest person ever to run for president. They showed a side view of him during the debate. A doctor suggested it might be his back it's not aligned with his neck. He really looked hunch backed. I'm not real sure about that idea though since he may have body armor on it may emphasis it.

[ailsagirl]

60. I noticed that his posture was atrocious

and compared it to Hillary's, which was nicely aligned

[MADem]

73. Some people made crude jokes about how he was 'assaulting' the chair

he was hanging on to!

[LiberalFighter]

46. So if this medical then why didn't his doctor identify the problem?

Oh wait a minute. He wasn't a real doctor. Well I mean his doctor didn't do a real checkup because he doesn't do that type of doctoring.

[MADem]

50. That "doctor" looked like a character in a 3 Stooges film! nt

[JHB]

55. ...or an action movie...

[MADem]

59. LOL!!!!!!! nt

[greatauntoftriplets]

75. My doctor says Trumpy's doctor looks like a drug dealer.

[MADem]

80. He does! The guy that when your friend or relation says,

"I gotta go to the cough DOCTOR cough" you know they mean Freddy on the corner!!!

[madinmaryland]

71. Well, we do know its not like all of his blood has gone to his "fingers".

[yesphan]

77. I "suffer" from

misophonia. The sound of other people chewing, especially crunchy food, gum snapping and excessive use of uh,um and other filler sounds when someone is talking. I work near people who often eat crunchy snacks during the day and I have to put in my earbuds or leave the room. Drives me nuts !

[MADem]

78. A lot of people find that sort of thing annoying! You are not alone!

Hopefully all the misophoniacs out there will vote for HRC, to avoid having to listen to Snorty McDonald The Con Man for the next four years! Every segment of the population counts!!! LOL~!

[WhiteTara]

53. Does he do this during his rallies?

[UMTerp01]

2. OMG IM SCREAMING!!!!

That was hilarious!!!!!

[RKP5637]

4. Yep! It sure was! n/t

[JoeOtterbein]

5. Today my doc diagnosed me with a respiratory infection and I'm not "snorting" like Trump !~

[TexasBushwhacker]

7. I think it's probably allergies or a sinus infection

But the thing that silly is that he denied it after the first debate. He lies about stupid things.

[spooky3]

12. I have bad allergies but I know to blow my nose once and not sniff continually.

Why can't he do that?

[TexasBushwhacker]

13. It's unlikely he would blow his nose during the debate

I wonder if it's a nervous tic.

[spooky3]

23. He could blow it just before going on TV. If he really has trouble, then he can

turn his back briefly and sneak in another blow. If he has to blow his nose more often than that, it's not allergies unless that room is unusually full of dust or whatever he has an allergy to. And, no reasonable human being would prefer him to stand up there snorting every few seconds rather than blowing his nose once or twice.

So I think we're agreeing that it is unlikely to be allergies. It's probably not a sinus infection because he probably would have overcome it in the 2 weeks since the last debate when he did the same thing.

Nervous tic is as good an explanation as any. He doesn't seem to do it while at his rallies.

[elehhhhna]

47. Nasal steroids etc. could stop one from snorting for a couple hours.

[MADem]

31. Check out the video above, from June. This isn't a new thing.

He's had a sinus infection since June, or earlier?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

54. Untreated sinus infections can last for months.

Usually a sinus infection responds very well to antibiotics.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

8. Obstructed nasal passages due to obesity?

[BlueStreak]

9. Could be, but coke seems to be the most obvious answer

People like Trump believe laws -- ALL LAWS -- are just for the little guy.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

14. It doesn't fit his personality. He doesn't even drink alcohol of any kind. . . . nt

[BlueStreak]

15. Are we supposed to take his word for that?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

16. No. There is zero evidence that points to drugs incl alcohol & lots that supports teetotaler. nt

Nasal congestion is very flimsy. So flimsy it doesn't count as evidence of a coke habit.

[Stellar]

40. Are you a Doctor or do you have evidents?

Carrie Fisher, seems to know about it, I've been looking for evidence. What ever it is, it's very annoying.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/movies/carrie-fisher-says-donald-trump-sniffles-absolutely-cocaine-052005929.html

[Bernardo de La Paz]

62. You are the one making the diagnosis. Are you a doctor?

[Stellar]

63. I didn't mean it as an insult, just a question. Please pardon me.

You said that there was no 'evidence' that points to Donald having drug issues. I was just wondering because I don't know anybody here personally. Again sorry.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

65. OK, no problem. I've simply been posting about applying the scientific method to wobbly theories.

It's cool, I did not perceive your post as an insult.

People have been noting vague symptoms like the sniffling and leaping to the conclusion that tRump is a cocaine addict or an alcoholic. Then they seek facts that would seem to confirm the theory.

Many people think science works that way. It does not. It works the opposite way.

The way most people operate (seeking facts to confirm theories) is what leads to confirmation bias. The Tea party hard core are an example of how bad it can get in extreme cases. They start with a theory that, say, Obama was not American-born and then they come across factoids (not true facts) that hint at links to Alinsky and ISIS and homosexual jailbirds. They arrive at very bizarre conclusions (ex. Kenyan marxist introducing sharia law to the USA) which they have an unshakeable faith in.

By contrast, science looks for facts that disprove or cast doubt on theories. Science uses Occam's razor, preferring simpler explanations over complicated ones, provide all the observations are accounted for.

So when we have a theory that, say, tRump is addicted to cocaine, some people jump on it and look for confirmation (ex. recovered experienced drug addict agrees).

I (and others in this thread) have gone the other way, subjecting the theory to a stress test. Asking ourselves if there are ordinary explanations that might account for it. For example, upthread a poster identified Pickwickian Syndrome (obstruction of nasal passages due to excessive weight) as a possible cause. Since that fits the observed facts (weight, sniffling), it is retained and it counts against the more complex theory that requires a prominent party-goer to not have a trail of reports of cocaine use accumulated over the many years.

We are also reminded that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

[Stellar]

68. pardon me...

but this 72 year old woman thinks you're brilliant ( and possibly a Dr).

[Bernardo de La Paz]

69. thx :) but I'm not a doctor I don't pretend to be one on the internet or elsewhere.

I do read widely and try to eat a diverse nutritious low-processed diet and try to think as clearly as I can and get good sleep each night.

[Stellar]

70. LOL...got'cha! nt

[MADem]

17. So HE says. He sure looks like a drunkard to me. nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

18. That's a little like judging a woman's morals by the way she dresses. . . . nt

[MADem]

19. No, it isn't. Dresses can be changed. Obesity, raddled skin, slurring words,

forgetfulness, bloviating speech--those are not things one puts on or takes off like an article of clothing.

Your "example" is a complete and utter fail. One thing is very much NOT like the other. Trying to make that comparison, though, is curious to me. Not in a good way, either.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

21. Analogy applies. There are many causes of the symptoms just like many reasons for wearing a dress.nt

[MADem]

22. Again--you can't "take off" that flab, that puffiness, that raddled skin,

the rambling, slurred words, etc. That's part and parcel of the personality of that ugly, hateful and vicious human being.

The analogy you are trying to shop is bogus and it looks like an attempt at shaming in order to take the attention off the orange problem child.

I'm not buying what you are selling at all. Wearing a dress is not a "problem." Behaving like Trump IS.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

26. That Trump's behavior is a problem is not disputed.

What is disputed is the rush to the conclusion that because of a few vague general symptoms Trump therefore has a coke habit or is alcoholic.

When considering a theory, a scientist does not look for facts or observations that are consistent with the theory. Instead, a scientist looks for facts that knock down the theory, that the theory does not explain. So it also goes in life, except that many people do not understand this principle. Instead they look for consistent facts instead of paying attention to inconsistencies.

It is known as confirmation bias.

While rambling and slurred words may be consistent with a theory of alcoholism, it is also consistent with being 70 years old. Further, there are other facts that alcoholism is inconsistent with. Such as no evidence or reports of drinking; Trump is never seen consuming alcohol and there are no credible reports of him consuming alcohol.

[MADem]

29. No--look, I'm not going to continue to engage you.

You are comparing Trump with shaming a woman for the way she dresses.

You don't even seem to understand how tone deaf that is.

You need to quit while you're behind.


You're coming off poorly.

This isn't about science, and you plainly don't know too many seventy year olds. Trump's behavior is consistent with "substance ingestion' or ILLNESS, not age.

John Kerry doesn't slur, nor does Hillary or Bill, or Jimmy Carter, or Warren Buffet, or George H. W. Bush or Betty White -- and many of those are way older than the Conald.

I've never SEEN Willy Nelson smoke weed--but I know he does it. I never SAW Robert Downey Jr. drink, either--but I know he's an alcoholic (in recovery). I never saw Phillip Seymour Hoffman shoot heroin, but he died of that.

So never SEEING someone do something means absolutely nothing.

So, whatever.

You need to introspect because your comparison there was really off base. UGH. Offensive.

[dem in texas]

56. Oh Please

I am 77 years, my husband is 79 years, most of my friends are over age 70, we do not slur our words.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

61. Oh Please

My mother is in her mid 80s and she does not slur her words.

There are 18 year old people who slur their words.

The word used was "consistent". It was not "congruent" which would mean it applied to everyone, which it does not. That directs the reader to the understanding that in no way is it meant to apply to everyone in the group but simply that one should not be surprised if it did apply to the person. There are more 70 year olds who slur their words than, say, 45 year olds or 20 year olds.

I have not known tRump to slur his words particularly. But I worked with the premise as an example of one symptom someone mentioned that has multiple possible causes. He does have poor enunciation so that phrases like "big league" come out sounding like "bigly".

People are reading way too much into these posts and not reading carefully enough and getting their backs up against perceived slights that don't apply. I know this is an unusual and tense election and I think we'll all be glad when it is over.

[JoeOtterbein]

72. Actually Health Care Providers make fast conclusions about health everyday, or it would be too late

...or as my Mom used to say "Doctors BURY their mistakes" !

[synergie]

37. Your analogy fails. But the misogyny shines through.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

43. You and MADem are barking up the wrong tree. My post is EXPLICITLY anti-misogynistic.

She wrote "So HE says. He sure looks like a drunkard to me. nt".

I wrote "That's a little like judging a woman's morals by the way she dresses. . . . nt"

Visible symptoms are only a small part of a total picture.
Similarly, choice of clothing is only a small part of a total personality.

Obviously I'm disagreeing with MADem for judging a book by the cover. As I make even clearer in a later post, it is a fallacy to draw too many conclusion from surface appearances. Thus I used an example of condemnable judging by surface appearances to show how mistaken MADem is to judge Trump by what he "looks like".

You won't find any posts of mine that are misogynistic. Certainly not the one you object to which is clearly anti-misogynistic since it is clear I am condemning misogynistic judgementalism as equally as I condemn diagnosing illness based solely on what he "looks like".

Post links if you think you have found a tinge, but if you are a fair-minded person without confirmation bias you would also post links where I have posted a number of times in support of women.
Example of intelligent woman: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1591300

And she is not the only highly intelligent woman who has chosen to be very attractive and sexual.
Any woman who chooses to look like a Barbie Doll can't be intelligent and feminist?
You judge books by covers only?
Yeah, you're getting backlash because of your illogical attitudes that also seem to be unenlightened.
{...}Your attitudes are those of men and their female collaborators who wish to control the sexuality of women. Women (and men) have every right to be sexually aware and active. But tRump has revealed himself to be a sociopathic predator who takes without permission.

A Democratic woman: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2495389
Pregnant woman as victim of misogyny: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8213197
Condemning Repubs ignorant of misogyny: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1593461
Defending a woman's right to privacy: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1572264
Felony Sexual Assault (see TNNurse reply): http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1592842
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1592321
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8220483
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8221018
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8220847
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1593275

[MADem]

45. I am not judging Trump by his clothing choices --I am judging him by his looks, his sounds, his

behavior, and his evident inability to catch his breath, speak clearly and articulately, his sniffling, etc. I am engaging my brain and listening to his comments, hearing the garbled sniffs and sounds emanating from him, as well as observing him--his demeanor, his anxious pacing, his pallor, his obesity, etc.

That's not the same thing as your example of making a determination about a woman's MORALS based on the way she is dressed.

And all the links in the world won't change that foot in mouth comment of yours. I'm not calling you a misogynist, but I am saying -- one more time --that your assertion was tone deaf and completely inappropriate. It was a lousy example, and you made it.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

52. Whoosh. I never said you were judging him by his clothing choices. . . . nt

[MADem]

74. YOU are the one making the comparison, and dragging WOMEN's clothing choices into the mix,

as though that's an apt comparison. It's NOT. So "Whooosh" right back at you.

You might read what YOU write--it would aid discussion. Here--let me refresh YOUR memory:

http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2495957

Bernardo de La Paz (14,276 posts)
18. That's a little like judging a woman's morals by the way she dresses. . . . nt

[synergie]

83. Sorry, but your post is explicitly the opposite of what

you claim, and your "analogy"still fails.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

28. Analogy not about putting on / taking off. About fallacy of drawing conclusions from appearances. nt

[synergie]

38. Diagnosis is literally based on drawing conclusions based on observable symptoms

like appearance, what you hear etc. your fallacy of false equivalence is based on ignorance of what an analogy is, how diagnosis works and your choice of a misogynistic phrase to make your nonsensical statement.
Your defense of Trump fails, the man was clearly showing odd breathing patterns and clearly displaying symptoms of pathology of the nasal passages or some physical manifestations of a psychiatric nature. Most logical conclusion, is damage to his nasal passage.

[Grassy Knoll]

11. Nervous Disorder

My Old boss did that when he lied to the construction crew.
We would say "He's Sniffing again, It's Bullshit"

[dem in texas]

57. yes, That is it

Saw am "expert" on one of the talking head shows and he said it was a behavior disorder and Trump could not keep from doing it.

[ColemanMaskell]

20. If he was doing coke he should be skinny rather than tubby.

Coke is similar to amphetamines : It makes people lose their appetites and refrain from eating, leading to weight loss.

The hyperactive disjointed behavior and speech match what one might see in a speed freak or coke head. If you think you have not seen such people, think back if you've ever seen a long haul truck driver who goes all night without sleep. They are prone to lose their tempers easily, sound their horns loud and long, and that sort of thing, right? Amphetamine use is common among people who do that, and coke is much the same in its effects. Or remember Brad Pitt's character in the Twelve Monkeys movie, with the superfluous hand-waving. Not entirely unlike Trump's behavior, right? So it seems plausible in that way. However, Trump is definitely not skinny. Prolonged use of that type of drug makes people skinny. So I don't think he is using coke.

The sniffing without nasal congestion is just like the sniffing a coke user would do, or at least very similar.

However, he could be taking meds like Pseudofed that dry out the sinuses, and they could produce the same effect. Also pseudo-ephedrine can have side effects that resemble amphetamine use somewhat, since it is a related compound. So on balance it seems more likely that the answer is the use of pseudo ephedrine, or something similar, for a sinus condition.

[BlueStreak]

25. And remember that TTrump has a reputation for being a workaholic

People say he works all the time. We know he tweets at 3AM. Maybe he's been using some "chemical assistance" for a very long time. Maybe to him, it is not like drinking. Maybe in the mind of Trump, that is just a habit of a highly effective person.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

27. If tRump were a workaholic he would be prepared for debates and have knowledge. He just up late. nt

[BlueStreak]

33. My point exactly. How many coke-heads do you know who are actually effective people?

But they all think they are sharper with the stuff.

[MADem]

49. Heroin is supposed to make you skinny, too.

Phillip Seymour Hoffman was a heroin addict, and he always managed to stay a bit ... portly.

Your points, though, are valid. Usually, cocaine will alter the body's ability to store fats. The person generally looks gaunt as opposed to bloated.

I suppose there's always the possibility of an exception to the rule! Or he could have other issues...

[ecstatic]

24. That was hilarious! Nt

[ailsagirl]

32. OMG, that was hilarious!

And according to LO, that wasn't all of them.

Definitely worth a listen/look

[LeftRant]

35. Trump said he didn't have a cold or allergies last time. And his doctor said he's invincible, SO...

What the fuck is wrong with him? No one is making this up. He's hiding something.

[Achilleaze]

36. Comrade Trump's fugly SNORTS were so obvious

that to FAIL to focus on it - as most corporate media is doing - is profound journalistic malpractice.

[Cha]

39. Here's the vid from trump's 2nd Sniffing debate..

[Coyotl]

41. I've been waiting for this. "Thanks"

[Cha]

42. I like them because it reduces him

to one long stream of sniffs. Which is a helluva lot better than the toxic waste that comes out of his mouth.

You're welcome

[Buns_of_Fire]

44. He's just reverting to a more natural state...

[WiffenPoof]

48. Have you ever heard...

...a bull snort when they become agitated?. They scrape the ground with their hoofs, snort and then attack. Just think about it for a minute.

[dem in texas]

58. yes, this is waht the expert equated it to

Said Trump could not help himself from doing it, was like an animal such as you described.

[WiffenPoof]

64. No kidding.... NT

[maxsolomon]

66. This isn't "Snorting" or "Sniffing"

Its an inhale: sharp, & through the nose only.

I suspect its part of his speaking technique. He's pulling in enough air to bellow incoherently about whatever, but he's trying to get it done super fast so he can bellow faster.

Try yourself to inhale like that, though. It's not easy!

[BainsBane]

67. I heard a theory that it was his posture

that restricts his airways, so that the sniffing is exacerbated under stress.

[Sanity Claws]

76. Isn't he too obese too be a coke head?

Most people on that stuff lose a lot of weight.

That's why I'm leaning to the explanation stated in this thread: Pickwickian Syndrome.

[JoeOtterbein]

79. No, the reason many coke heads are thin is because they spend most of their money on coke...

...not because of coke use. I knew a very wealthy cokehead during the 70's and he was actually obese.

[MADem]

81. Wasn't the late mayor of Toronto a cokehead? And he was QUITE large.... nt

[JoeOtterbein]

82. Yes, and he smoked it, a "crackhead"