2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumLibertarian ticket could spoil Clinton party
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/03/opinions/libertarians-opinion-zwolinski/index.htmlMost people think of libertarianism as a kind of right-wing ideology, with its intellectual origins in the free-market economics of Milton Friedman and the unabashed egoism and anti-communism of Ayn Rand. And it's certainly true that for most of its existence, the Libertarian Party has drawn more heavily from the political right than from the political left.
But Gary Johnson is actually drawing just as much support from self-identified Democrats as he does from Republicans. And polls that include Johnson actually show a slight decrease in Clinton's lead over Trump.
Please, PLEASE stop anyone voting for Johnson! He will elect Trump or spoil a Clinton mandate.
HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)Grassy Knoll
(10,118 posts)unitedwethrive
(1,997 posts)Salviati
(6,009 posts)It's a bad idea to count on people making a lick of sense.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)they're socially to the left of the Democrats on weed, crime reform, and always have been progressive on LGBT/abortion issues.
mythology
(9,527 posts)At best they want to not have government restrictions on same sex marriage. But they are just fine with businesses openly discriminating. So a hotel could refuse a same sex couple or a company could refuse to cater a same sex marriage for example.
Libertarians want the government to be so small as to be functionally useless.
mr_liberal
(1,017 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,352 posts)by saying current law says you have to sell a cake to anyone if it's for sale but you shouldn't have to decorate it.
CNN town hall.
He refused to directly answer the question about the government having any responsibility to move equality forward.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)In my #36 below, the Libertarians have had an infestation of folks from the Republican party who really are just standard Republicans but are using the Libertarian party opportunistically.
democrattotheend
(11,607 posts)Unlike the major parties, where you register through the state (if your state has party registration), to be a formal member of the Libertarian Party you register with the party and pay dues. My friend resigned his membership after Johnson was renominated because he is frustrated with the party becoming a haven for washed up Republicans as opposed to true Libertarians. Amazingly, had Bernie won the primaries, he even said he would consider voting for Bernie over Johnson because he is fed up with the LP selling out. But there is no way he will ever vote for Hillary, unfortunately. He is a conspiracy theorist and buys into a lot of the crap out there about her.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)joining the party.
I think eventually the Republicans will all become Lbertarian and I think that's great. We will win on Social issues like LGBT rights, women's rights and drug legalization. The great debate will then be solidly on economics.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I suspect that the Johnson ticket (lol) will appeal more to disaffected (R) types than anyone else this cycle.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)who couldn't get to where they wanted in the GOP and so they went Libertarian. Many of those "Libertarians" are far from the kind that are socially Liberal/Progressive.
Wayne Allyn Root, the Libertarian VP nominee from 2008 is a good example. There are a number of them.
Ya know, it's not like it's a slow news day.
brush
(54,005 posts)If anything Johnson will take sensible Republican votes who are scared and disgusted with Trump.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,260 posts)writes3000
(4,734 posts)Makes sense.
makes sense
still_one
(92,595 posts)so-called self-identified Democrats? The vast majority of Democrats realize the very real danger that Trump is. They are voting for Hillary.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)Who can't bring themselves to vote Trump, or they're Dems who can't get over the Iraq vote but don't like Trump, young kids who think both Clinton and Trump are corrupt and wanna vote moral purity, etc
still_one
(92,595 posts)90% of Bernie supporters have already said they will be voting for Hillary
Guy Whitey Corngood
(26,515 posts)denbot
(9,901 posts)Sure buddy.
DinahMoeHum
(21,861 posts)Johnson might appeal to those who hate Trump but who can't bear themselves to vote for the Democrat - IOW, disaffected Republicans.
It's Trump, not Clinton, who is screwed with a Libertarian ticket. It's votes not going to him.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)Like Johnson is not RW....Significant 3rd party nominees are more vehicles for protest votes than actual ideology.
Also, we don't need the GOP to have the "Clinton only won because of a spoiler" excuse that the GOP (and far left) gave us in the 1990s. With a stronger mandate, WJC might have gotten more done.
MH1
(17,663 posts)Anti regulations generally? Pro unregulated capitalism?
Those are extreme right wing positions and normally part of the Libertarian Party platform.
The problem with libertarians is that they are anti regulation on ALL fronts, including being opposed to regulating organized groups from exploiting vulnerable individuals. Being pro drug legalization doesn't make someone a liberal.
TwilightZone
(25,550 posts)He is decidedly conservative on many, many issues.
Off the top of my head, he's for school vouchers, is pro-gun, says government-run health care is "insanity", wants to privatize SS, wants to get rid of the EPA and the IRS, and supports a flat tax.
Sound like a leftie to you? He's a right-libertarian. Anyone on the left who thinks they should support him for a few hand-picked issues doesn't understand (or realize) that he's a conservative on just about everything else.
molova
(543 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)So they're trying to float anything they can in order to create the horse race narrative.
Hilarious.
TeamPooka
(24,342 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Dem2
(8,168 posts)I can't take this seriously - 3rd party always seem to fade at the last minute.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Remind people that Trump wants to outlaw internet pornography and will probably appoint "tough on legal weed" Chris Christie as AG.
GeorgeGist
(25,328 posts)stonecutter357
(12,699 posts)misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Where do Rand Paul, Ralph Reed, and David Koch Connect?
Jul 29, 2013 11:37am CDT
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http://www.opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=INSIDER-Proof-Tea--Liber-by-Daily-Kos-John-Birch-Society_Tea-Party_Tea-Party-Movement-151121-736.html
INSIDER Proof: Tea & Libertarian Parties ARE The John Birch Society
-------------------
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2014/01/21/the-john-birch-societys-anti-civil-rights-campaign-of-the-1960s-and-its-relevance-today/#sthash.VFB6ZuRS.dpbs
The John Birch Societys Anti-Civil Rights Campaign of the 1960s, and Its Relevance Today
Founded in 1958, the John Birch Society (JBS) fiercely opposed the Civil Rights Movement during the 1960s and 1970s. Decades later, the rise of the Tea Party and the ongoing Ron Paul Revolution have helped the JBS make a comeback as it attracts young people by re-branding itself as libertarian. The organization is a significant force behind promoting the nullification of federal laws, as described in the most recent issue of The Public Eye. The JBS has also helped provide fodder for accusations that President Obama, considered by most Democrats to have governed as a centrist, is a Marxist. ...MORE
emulatorloo
(44,289 posts)"In a four way race, Clinton retains her lead. She gets 45 percent to Trumps 31 percent. Libertarian Gary Johnson has 10 percent and the Green Partys Jill Stein has 6 percent."
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article93763582.html#storylink=cpy
Sorry, CNN, Johnson's taking votes from Trump as far as I can tell.
Doctor Jack
(3,072 posts)democrattotheend
(11,607 posts)Gary Johnson presents an attractive, or at least acceptable, alternative for those who usually vote Republican, don't like Trump, but can't bring themselves to vote for Hillary. If he were not an option, I would guess that some of those voters would go for Hillary but more would end up going for Trump, for the Supreme Court if nothing else (although I think Johnson is probably more attractive to the business conservatives than the religious conservatives). So it depends whether you consider a vote for Johnson in that situation to be taking a vote from Hillary or from Trump.
That said, there may be a few people like my friend who is the only liberal in a family of libertarians. She was a Bernie supporter and may vote Libertarian now, but she promised me she would vote for Hillary if she has a chance of winning her red-leaning state. I confess that I even considered voting Libertarian a few months ago, because I was angry and defiant and I figured my vote didn't matter because I don't live in a swing state. I am on board with Hillary now, obviously, but if I had to vote third party I would rather vote for Johnson than Stein, because at least he is not out to specifically harm the Democratic Party.
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