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John Poet

(2,510 posts)
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 06:31 AM Jul 2016

The Left’s Beef With Tim Kaine: Bernie’s supporters see a rebuke in Clinton's ‘safe’ VP pick

(Article)

Everyone assumes Senator Tim Kaine is Hillary Clinton’s “safe” pick for vice president. He’s geographically safe: hailing from the swing state of Virginia, where a Democratic governor can name his replacement. He’s demographically safe: a white male Catholic who speaks fluent Spanish. His résumé is safe, checking the senator, governor and mayor boxes. Even his personality is safe. “I am boring,” Kaine assured America on NBC’s Meet the Press last Sunday.

But ask anyone from the Bernie Sanders wing of the party about TKaine, and suddenly he doesn’t feel very safe at all. “An establishment Wall Street Democrat like Tim Kaine … will do nothing but confirm to progressives she's learned nothing from this primary,” Jordan Chariton told Politico Magazine, who reports for the Bernie-friendly online talk show The Young Turks.

As many as 22 million potential voters in November are thought to be Sanders-leaning Democrats, and they’re looking for evidence that Clinton is paying some heed to the surprisingly strong insurgency of the socialist from Vermont. Bernie’s success was a clear anti-establishment uprising, strong enough that his supporters expect their agenda will now help shape the future of the party. But choosing Kaine may send them the opposite message: This is her party now, and you aren’t the ones calling the shots.

“Tim Kaine would be a perfect addition to the ticket,” said People for Bernie co-founder Charles Lenchner when asked by Politico Magazine how he would interpret such a pick “in that he would add no progressive backbone that might inconvenience Team Hillary when it's time to govern.”


Read more:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/hillary-clinton-2016-vp-pick-tim-kaine-213997


144 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Left’s Beef With Tim Kaine: Bernie’s supporters see a rebuke in Clinton's ‘safe’ VP pick (Original Post) John Poet Jul 2016 OP
Bernie supports Hillary and will strongly support the entire ticket over Trumpenstein. Case closed. RBInMaine Jul 2016 #1
Yup. Literally 90% of his followers will vote for her Hortensis Jul 2016 #20
Exactly. Andy823 Jul 2016 #25
BlueDye's familiar with the "withholding of approval" Hortensis Jul 2016 #39
SO.SPOT.ON! Surya Gayatri Jul 2016 #55
Your own "concern" for party unity is duly noted. Armstead Jul 2016 #118
These people are a nightmare lillypaddle Jul 2016 #138
I hate it when they say "Bernie Sander Supporters" like it's ALL of them. All of the Sanders kerry-is-my-prez Jul 2016 #88
That small group kind of seems like a cult. TeacherB87 Jul 2016 #112
Exactly. tecelote Jul 2016 #140
Primary is over...isn't it? Let's win this thing!! nt glennward Jul 2016 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author NurseJackie Jul 2016 #3
But they simply hate Clinton bluedye33139 Jul 2016 #4
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #7
I tend to speak my mind bluedye33139 Jul 2016 #8
Well, that's very nice. TheCowsCameHome Jul 2016 #15
Yes, I will stop speaking for you or whatever bluedye33139 Jul 2016 #17
Lots of us don't "absolutely hate her", John Poet Jul 2016 #10
I actually agree with you obamanut2012 Jul 2016 #12
Yeap... Fuck purist auhtoritarians... They'll never be happy uponit7771 Jul 2016 #13
Yes, but, Bluedye, "they" don't hate Clinton at all. 80% like her, Hortensis Jul 2016 #22
The game of withholding approval bluedye33139 Jul 2016 #23
That doesn't sound good, Bluedye. Hortensis Jul 2016 #26
Yep. I'm a therapist and deal with a lot of those people. They wonder why they can't get along with kerry-is-my-prez Jul 2016 #96
Hillary needs to lead the fight against Trumps fascism: She needs a nice white guy! lewebley3 Jul 2016 #51
You are correct kevink077 Jul 2016 #82
Don't lump all Sanders supporters together. Most are voting Clinton in Nov. There's a small kerry-is-my-prez Jul 2016 #92
Why would Bernie's fans think that? Not everything ... NurseJackie Jul 2016 #5
Trump would understand, even if you can't. Hortensis Jul 2016 #27
I have the feeling that the writer has one friend or source who is a die-hard anti-Clinton Sanders kerry-is-my-prez Jul 2016 #102
I'll be voting for the ticket, against Trump. John Poet Jul 2016 #6
"...but I guess they had other priorities." ~~ Yeah: Winning. NurseJackie Jul 2016 #21
Good post! Let's hope it clears up the misunderstanding. Hortensis Jul 2016 #30
good post! Grey Lemercier Jul 2016 #99
Yep, your response kind of reinforces what was said in the article: John Poet Jul 2016 #124
You're very welcome. I'm glad I could be of assistance. NurseJackie Jul 2016 #139
Hillary HAS solidified support from the left. Hortensis Jul 2016 #24
Hillary has already solidified support from the left. You are voting for her, and so am I. She has Squinch Jul 2016 #91
Fuck the purist authoritarians ... They usually never live up to their own standards and in this... uponit7771 Jul 2016 #9
Fuck the non-purist authoritarians! John Poet Jul 2016 #14
Non purist authoritarian is somewhat of an oxymoxymoin this context uponit7771 Jul 2016 #34
As Governor Kaine signed into law the Marshall-Newman Amendment, which defined Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #41
Did Kaines views on gay marriage evolve any? Yes they did and you know it !!. See, this shit... uponit7771 Jul 2016 #44
Thank you LoverOfLiberty Jul 2016 #75
Sshhh, your "purist authoritarianism" is showing. JudyM Jul 2016 #45
No, peoples bullshit fucked up ass'd intentions are showing by stating a false narrative about a... uponit7771 Jul 2016 #47
Staying on the right side since their early years impresses you less than someone who JudyM Jul 2016 #70
Many people have evolved on the issue of gay marriage, including both candidates annavictorious Jul 2016 #109
The point is that it is not *more* progressive to evolve than it is to have started early on JudyM Jul 2016 #123
Is that his current position? thucythucy Jul 2016 #46
+1, they don't give a fuck about stating his CURRENT position just pushing a false narrative about uponit7771 Jul 2016 #49
It was not Kaine's position THEN! He campaigned against the amendment csziggy Jul 2016 #129
Thank you for this info. nt thucythucy Jul 2016 #142
I am a proud lesbian female and i have ZERO problems with Sen. Kaine as the VP Grey Lemercier Jul 2016 #94
Obama was against same-sex marriage too at one point. Squinch Jul 2016 #95
So there's a bit more to that than you are letting on... SaschaHM Jul 2016 #100
#14 - FALSE! It was a voter initiative and Kaine did not sign anything csziggy Jul 2016 #127
57% of the voters in Virginia voted for the Marshall-Newman amendment charlyvi Jul 2016 #136
Purists cost Democrats elections and are pretty useless...can't depend on them. nt Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #53
"Non-purist" is a kind way to say it. JudyM Jul 2016 #69
uponit7771—Thank you for telling progressives how the Democratic Party should feel! CobaltBlue Jul 2016 #135
WE ARE GOOD TO GO! Her Sister Jul 2016 #11
I don't necessarily see this as so much DemonGoddess Jul 2016 #16
Where does this number come from? Starry Messenger Jul 2016 #18
Sanders won't be on the ballot in November so comradebillyboy Jul 2016 #40
True, I get sucked into their narrative at times. Starry Messenger Jul 2016 #52
That number grows all the time. I think it's up to eleventy billion by now. Squinch Jul 2016 #97
LOL! Starry Messenger Jul 2016 #114
We should definitely not count on it. Squinch Jul 2016 #115
The ones who will not vote for her now GulfCoast66 Jul 2016 #19
Exactly right. I agree with every word you posted. nt auntpurl Jul 2016 #33
I agree with you. No real Bernie supporter would help Trump. nt Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #54
^^^AMEN to this!^^^ Surya Gayatri Jul 2016 #59
A rebuke? No. Android3.14 Jul 2016 #28
Read up on Senator Kaine, please. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2016 #32
Android3.14—Yeah, but if any voter wants to kiss a v.p. nominee, Tim’s the one! CobaltBlue Jul 2016 #134
Oh the drama rjsquirrel Jul 2016 #29
+1000! DemonGoddess Jul 2016 #50
At some point people need to get over the primary. nt geek tragedy Jul 2016 #31
Agreed GulfCoast66 Jul 2016 #36
they will be fighting it for the next decade plus, even after Hillary steamrolls Trump Grey Lemercier Jul 2016 #101
Again, let's point out that the 'pure' progressives desperately wanted a former Republican as VP. CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author GulfCoast66 Jul 2016 #38
This message was self-deleted by its author G_j Jul 2016 #65
You are correct GulfCoast66 Jul 2016 #71
Thank you G_j Jul 2016 #72
Kaine was not my choice, but Bernie supporters have to fucking get over it. Adrahil Jul 2016 #37
Sad, but not much of choice we have. It's either her or Mussolini. B Calm Jul 2016 #62
Warren was my choice.... Adrahil Jul 2016 #130
Can we please please have at least a day or maybe even two if you could be that generous, John Poet Jul 2016 #125
Well, if you aren't throwing tantrums... Adrahil Jul 2016 #131
Nobody seems to be losing their shit in this thread, except for a bunch John Poet Jul 2016 #132
I wasn't speaking to anyone in particular. Adrahil Jul 2016 #144
Shouldn't that headline read "Some Bernie supporters" thucythucy Jul 2016 #42
That's what I think. The writer is just trying to agitate and create a story KittyWampus Jul 2016 #60
Daily Kos: not safe, she's going for a rout. s-cubed Jul 2016 #43
As for the disgruntled folks among Bernie supporters. . . DinahMoeHum Jul 2016 #63
I was hoping she would put the unification of the party first in B Calm Jul 2016 #48
In my opinion, those who are not united now will never seek unification. Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #58
That's what the platform was for. She gave plenty of ground there in the name of unity. CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #64
It's not about HER ibegurpard Jul 2016 #67
If it isn't about her, as was implied, what are the holdouts doing to unite the party? CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #68
Candidates in the past when coming out of the convention use to B Calm Jul 2016 #79
Did the platform mean nothing? We kept being told that was of HUGE importance. CrowCityDem Jul 2016 #81
Warren will be lon campaign trail Gothmog Jul 2016 #56
I think this particular politico article is just a writer stirring the pot. KittyWampus Jul 2016 #57
No, say it ain't so...click bait? Surely, that can't be the case??? [sarc] Surya Gayatri Jul 2016 #61
And most of the ratfuckers okasha Jul 2016 #120
it wasn't a safe pick ibegurpard Jul 2016 #66
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2016 #73
News cycles. auntpurl Jul 2016 #77
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2016 #78
Yeah, I think that's the general idea (re: cooling off). auntpurl Jul 2016 #80
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2016 #83
I won't defend DWS. auntpurl Jul 2016 #90
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #93
I am American. I live in the UK. I'm from Philadelphia. auntpurl Jul 2016 #98
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2016 #104
Of course I'm voting for Hillary. auntpurl Jul 2016 #106
Some Sanders supporters LoverOfLiberty Jul 2016 #74
Tim Kaine is a good person. The greatest concern raised by his presence on the ticket is that he Attorney in Texas Jul 2016 #76
Mike Pence doesn't exactly scream "anti-establishment". Arkana Jul 2016 #87
I'm sure that Sanders supporters will vote for Clinton-Kaine Mister Twilight Jul 2016 #84
The people saying this didn't like Hillary before she picked Kaine, Arkana Jul 2016 #85
Post removed Post removed Jul 2016 #107
Not just Bernie Supporters... I see it as a rebuke of Progressivism JCMach1 Jul 2016 #86
There is no upside to this pick ibegurpard Jul 2016 #105
Exactly JCMach1 Jul 2016 #116
The Democratic establishment appears to be begging for a third party movement to gain traction. jalan48 Jul 2016 #89
Based on the little I know about Kaine, I am disappointed ... but KPN Jul 2016 #103
Obama surprised the hell out of me. auntpurl Jul 2016 #108
We shall see. KPN Jul 2016 #117
The Left has no Beef With Tim Kaine. stonecutter357 Jul 2016 #110
well you know....bernie did lose.....and his supporters can either support hillary or let trump win beachbum bob Jul 2016 #111
I (like every other bernie supporter I know) am totally behind the fishwax Jul 2016 #113
The attitudes on this thread are not encouraging for kumbaya Armstead Jul 2016 #119
Yep. aikoaiko Jul 2016 #121
There is a small but vocal group of alleged progressives okasha Jul 2016 #122
Anyone that upset over a VP pick is being ridiculous. I never get upset or particularly excited stevenleser Jul 2016 #126
They are beyond tiresome already. n/t Lil Missy Jul 2016 #128
Guess which one has a higher CPAC rating Renew Deal Jul 2016 #133
ok so i would have loved MFM008 Jul 2016 #137
Surely if Bernie Sanders himself enthusiastically endorses the ticket, Nye Bevan Jul 2016 #141
The left is over half of the American poltical spectrum. And we are going to elect Tim Kaine VP. L. Coyote Jul 2016 #143

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
20. Yup. Literally 90% of his followers will vote for her
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 07:57 AM
Jul 2016

and/or against Trump, and by November that number will probably rise even farther.

It's a shame some are unhappy, and sure most understand that well enough--I'd prefer a strong change signal myself, but Kaine is a moderate progressive who both believes strongly in using government to effect that change and will hopefully appeal to moderate conservatives, both in and out of the party. This is the real world. We have to win.

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
25. Exactly.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 08:13 AM
Jul 2016

And all the BS being spewed here on DU by people who "claim" they are, or where, supporting Bernie is just the same people who bashed and trashed her during the primary and now are doing the same things here, but trying to make it look like they are "concerned" about her being able to win if she does not follow their advice.

Most of the "concerned" posters here are never going to vote for her no matter what she does. Their only goal is to come here, stir things up and cause problems. They left for awhile, but now are coming back to post more dribble, and to rec up those kinds of threads, and as they did before, try and take control of as many juries as they can to keep their dribble at the top of the page on the boards. For them it's all about their hate for Hillary, as they showed us during the primaries.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
39. BlueDye's familiar with the "withholding of approval"
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 08:49 AM
Jul 2016

tactic and sees it being tried here. I actually expect many will end up voting against Trump, but admitting that would spoil the attempted manipulations of those playing this game.

As for nice-guy Kaine, lol, his choice might be for the resentful fringe more than they know. Lawence O'Donnell last night quoted someone who said the race was going to be ultimately not-Trump and the "last thing she wants" is a VP choice who would distract from Trump's self-immolation by becoming another pet hate for some of the voters.

So, to those prone to taking hates on both left and right, this one IS for you.

At least in part.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
55. SO.SPOT.ON!
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 09:41 AM
Jul 2016
And all the BS being spewed here on DU by people who "claim" they are, or were, supporting Bernie is just the same people who bashed and trashed her during the primary...
...

Their only goal is to come here, stir things up and cause problems.

kerry-is-my-prez

(8,131 posts)
88. I hate it when they say "Bernie Sander Supporters" like it's ALL of them. All of the Sanders
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:50 AM
Jul 2016

supporters I know are going to vote Clinton and are not going to use some lame excuse like her VP pick. Those "Sanders Supporters" who are going to vote for Trump or another candidate are a small percentage. I work with a lot of Bernie fans and all of them didn't even think twice about switching over to Hillary. I think it's very insulting to act like they are in a cult or something.

 

TeacherB87

(249 posts)
112. That small group kind of seems like a cult.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:35 AM
Jul 2016

But you're right, if we're going to paint with a broad brush, his supporters quickly switched to Clinton and there is no actual issue here.

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
140. Exactly.
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 06:10 AM
Jul 2016

Bernie and Bernie supporters now support Hillary.

But, a lot of people here have to twist the knife so no Bernie supporter feels good about it.

It's time this stopped and we all work together.

Response to John Poet (Original post)

bluedye33139

(1,474 posts)
4. But they simply hate Clinton
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 06:44 AM
Jul 2016

It would be ridiculous for Hillary Clinton to cater to the so-called Sanders-leaning Democrats. Unless they've been lying, they absolutely hate her and I cannot imagine anything she does being good enough for them.

Response to bluedye33139 (Reply #4)

bluedye33139

(1,474 posts)
8. I tend to speak my mind
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 07:35 AM
Jul 2016

Hey, thanks for the personal interest! Yes, I do tend to agree with my own opinions, I imagine. If this is contrary to community standards, please explain to me how that is.

TheCowsCameHome

(40,152 posts)
15. Well, that's very nice.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 07:43 AM
Jul 2016

But don't try to speak for me, or other Sanders-primary supporters.

It never works out well.

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
10. Lots of us don't "absolutely hate her",
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 07:36 AM
Jul 2016

although perhaps in the heat of the primary, more of us did.


Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
22. Yes, but, Bluedye, "they" don't hate Clinton at all. 80% like her,
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 08:02 AM
Jul 2016

they just like Bernie better. They are us.

It's a fraction of the rest who have a serious problem with her, and, as you suggest, their malice just has to be their problem to resolve or wallow in.

bluedye33139

(1,474 posts)
23. The game of withholding approval
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 08:04 AM
Jul 2016

I also suspect that my opinion here is partly the product of my character. I learned early in life that when people play the game of withholding approval, nothing you do will ever please them.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
26. That doesn't sound good, Bluedye.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 08:17 AM
Jul 2016

But it opened your eyes eventually, obviously.

Sure, withhold in a petty attempt to punish us for beating them and all the rest of our crimes against humanity, of course, and to try to assert control. No wonder so many act as if the election will be lost if we don't leap to please them, and how frustrating it must be to try to get that last one over. Lol.

kerry-is-my-prez

(8,131 posts)
96. Yep. I'm a therapist and deal with a lot of those people. They wonder why they can't get along with
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:10 AM
Jul 2016

anyone and that every single person they come across is "against THEM." They are always the victim.

kevink077

(361 posts)
82. You are correct
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:42 AM
Jul 2016

Hillary could of named Sanders as VP and they wouldn't have been happy. "Bernie is a sellout" blah blah. Hillary could do everything these People wanted and most will probably still stay home on Election Day anyway. No wonder she picked Kaine. ( who is a liberal anyway). Kaine caters to people who will actually get out and vote.

kerry-is-my-prez

(8,131 posts)
92. Don't lump all Sanders supporters together. Most are voting Clinton in Nov. There's a small
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:04 AM
Jul 2016

percentage who aren't and a small percentage of them who are attention-seekers who like to stir up shit.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
5. Why would Bernie's fans think that? Not everything ...
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 06:47 AM
Jul 2016

... that happens is about them, nor directed toward them, nor in response to them, nor to send a message of disapproval to them. The writer of that article seems to have a very egocentric world-view ... or maybe he just believes that all Bernie fans are that way.

I see the primary continues, even though it's over. (Sigh.)

kerry-is-my-prez

(8,131 posts)
102. I have the feeling that the writer has one friend or source who is a die-hard anti-Clinton Sanders
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:17 AM
Jul 2016

supporter who wouldn't be happy no matter who was picked.

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
6. I'll be voting for the ticket, against Trump.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 07:32 AM
Jul 2016

That does not mean I am pleased with this VP pick, by any stretch of the imagination. This article spelled out my feelings on it well, so I posted it.

The VP pick was an opportunity for Hillary to solidify support from the left, and that would have made me more comfortable supporting the ticket... but I guess they had other priorities.

Some people around here seem to think that we aren't allowed to voice any disappointment over this pick, but luckily the admins disagree.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
21. "...but I guess they had other priorities." ~~ Yeah: Winning.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 07:59 AM
Jul 2016
The VP pick was an opportunity for Hillary to solidify support from the left,

Is that the purpose of the VP pick? Is the VP pick supposed to be a consolation prize for the wing of the party that didn't win the primary? (Personally, I believe that expectations of that nature are very unrealistic, and perhaps a bit selfish too.)

It was up to Hillary to choose someone who she thinks is qualified to be one-heartbeat-away, AND who will make a good campaign partner AND a good governing partner. She chose someone she admires, someone who respects her in return, and someone that she can work well with.

You guys need to realize that the VP slot isn't a silver-medal. It's not a nod or token gesture to placate the liberal wing of the party. There is no Congeniality Award to be given in presidential politics.

Hillary made a solid pick. Whatever disappointment people are experiencing is solely the result of their having unrealistic expectations. People who truly feel that way need an attitude adjustment and need to look at the larger picture. It's now about winning the election.

Why should Hillary try to placate a handful of extreme-left voters at the expense of an entire roomful of moderate voters?


 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
124. Yep, your response kind of reinforces what was said in the article:
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:53 PM
Jul 2016

"This is her party now, and you aren’t the ones calling the shots."

Sounds like someone else needs an 'attitude adjustment',
but that's been the case for the past year.



NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
139. You're very welcome. I'm glad I could be of assistance.
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 06:01 AM
Jul 2016

But when it comes to improving one's skills in coping and accepting reality, those who oppose Hillary and who feel personally snubbed by her VP choice are on their own. That's something they'll have to do for themselves.

Sounds like someone else needs an 'attitude adjustment', but that's been the case for the past year.

It's unclear what or who this is referring to. In recent days, you guys have adopted a vague, indirect and passive-aggressive manner of writing. Frequently, an inordinate amount of effort is being made to not say what one wants to say.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
24. Hillary HAS solidified support from the left.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 08:05 AM
Jul 2016

Sure, grouching is to be expected from some, but grouching doesn't mean divorce, it just means grouching. Most learned that they had to play well with others when they were small and know nothing's ever all about what they want.

Squinch

(50,351 posts)
91. Hillary has already solidified support from the left. You are voting for her, and so am I. She has
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:56 AM
Jul 2016

all of her primary supporters, and 92% of Sanders's primary supporters. So you don't get much more solid support from the left than she already had.

The VP pick was really an opportunity for Hillary to pick up support from Independents and the center, and do it in a way that is largely ceremonial and doesn't much affect her policies.

It also gives her a crucial swing state.

And look at it this way: a big objection to him was his support for the TPP. He has agreed, as the VP candidate, to align his position to Hillary's and she has come out against it. But even if he hadn't done that, his being VP candidate actually takes him out of the ratifying process. Her picking him actually reduces congressional support for the TPP.

Another big objection to him is his coziness with the banks. Again, this takes him out of the ratification process for any laws Liz Warren comes up with to increase regulation and make the banks safer for us.

And I have said all along that there are plenty of people out there who, consciously or not, are freaked out by the idea of a woman president. Others may disagree, but I have no doubts that this is more widespread than any of us would guess. A guy who looks like the kinds of politicians they are used to, who is a backstop to that scary woman president, might reduce their freak out and make her more palatable.

He is not who I would have chosen, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that Hillary is a lot better at this politics thing than I am and her choice is actually a very good one.

uponit7771

(90,152 posts)
9. Fuck the purist authoritarians ... They usually never live up to their own standards and in this...
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 07:36 AM
Jul 2016

... case it's their person or no one ...fuck em... they'll never be happy

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
41. As Governor Kaine signed into law the Marshall-Newman Amendment, which defined
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 08:58 AM
Jul 2016

marriage as being reserved only for straight couples, denied to same sex couples. He did so after having promised to veto it when he was candidate.

Any politician who had delivered similar treatment to any other minority group would be soundly rejected by this Party. The contrast is blatant.

uponit7771

(90,152 posts)
44. Did Kaines views on gay marriage evolve any? Yes they did and you know it !!. See, this shit...
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 09:23 AM
Jul 2016

... is what makes people NEVER EVER trust dissenters of Clinton because these kind of bull shit ass'd retorts can EASILY be looked up by people who have 10 seconds to confirm these bullshit ass'd memes.

I don't mind imperfect people, I'm one of them... I mind people who are stuck on stupid and never ever change at all...

That someone had the same position since they were born tells me less than someone who was born with a bad position and decided to change for the better...

THAT'S PROGRESSIVENESS !!!

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Tim_Kaine.htm

Click here for 9 full quotes on Civil Rights OR background on Civil Rights.
Strong supporter of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. (Oct 2012)
Obama fought for equal pay for women. (Sep 2012)
Obama fought for fair treatment for LGBT Americans. (Sep 2012)
No discrimination against nominating gay judges. (May 2012)
GOP agenda on gay marriage is divisive social legislation. (Apr 2012)
Tried to pass laws favoring domestic partnerships. (Apr 2012)

Voted YES on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act. (Feb 2013)
Opposes defining traditional marriage. (Oct 2012)
Endorsed as "preferred" by The Feminist Majority indicating pro-women's rights. (Aug 2012)

LoverOfLiberty

(1,438 posts)
75. Thank you
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:32 AM
Jul 2016

They cherry pick one of these issues from years ago, be it marriage equality, abortion, whatever, to justify why Tim Kaine is THE WORST PICK EVER.

And its intellectually dishonest. Its actually the tactic that groups like Fox use.

uponit7771

(90,152 posts)
47. No, peoples bullshit fucked up ass'd intentions are showing by stating a false narrative about a...
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 09:26 AM
Jul 2016

... person that can easily be looked up on the internet.

Again, I'm not impressed with someone who has had one position from birth and was on the right side of that...

I'm more looking for people who can change an entrenched position after looking at the facts strongly and being better for it...

That's progressiveness ...

JudyM

(28,972 posts)
70. Staying on the right side since their early years impresses you less than someone who
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:11 AM
Jul 2016

maintains a non-progressive stance until they later change their position as public opinion changes. Ok.

But the latter certainly doesn't qualify as more progressive.

 

annavictorious

(934 posts)
109. Many people have evolved on the issue of gay marriage, including both candidates
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:28 AM
Jul 2016

who participated in the primaries and President Obama. None of them were pro gay marriage rights until fairly recently, including Obama, Clinton, Sanders, and Kaine.

JudyM

(28,972 posts)
123. The point is that it is not *more* progressive to evolve than it is to have started early on
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 03:20 PM
Jul 2016

from a progressive position. In fact, quite the contrary. People who are *more* progressive hold progressive positions as a matter of principle, without regard to the popularity or generally held acceptability of those positions.

thucythucy

(7,892 posts)
46. Is that his current position?
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 09:25 AM
Jul 2016

What is his position on the issue now?

I agree that the civil rights consensus on marriage equality took way too long to develop. But I'm more interested in someone's current position, than in mistakes--even egregious ones--made in the past. Is he still In support of that amendment, or has he--to use the popular word--evolved on the topic?

Of course, the folks on the other side--Mike Pence being the prime example--continue to espouse out and out bigotry, including support for "conversion therapy."

Martin Luther King was at first highly suspicious of LBJ, a white southerner who in the 1940s and into the 50s either touted a segregationist line, or at the very least was compliant and silent, and thus complicit. Rev. King and others in the movement saw that by 1964 Johnson had outgrown his past bigotry.

It's a shame that Senator Kaine has this blot on his record. I wish it wasn't so. But if he has truly evolved on the issue, and if he doesn't harbor the homophobia so blatant among the GOP, then I'm willing to accept him and move on.

None of us is perfect. I know I sure as hell aren't.

uponit7771

(90,152 posts)
49. +1, they don't give a fuck about stating his CURRENT position just pushing a false narrative about
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 09:29 AM
Jul 2016

... a person that can easily be refuted by looking up his recent record

Click here for 9 full quotes on Civil Rights OR background on Civil Rights.
Strong supporter of the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. (Oct 2012)
Obama fought for equal pay for women. (Sep 2012)
Obama fought for fair treatment for LGBT Americans. (Sep 2012)
No discrimination against nominating gay judges. (May 2012)
GOP agenda on gay marriage is divisive social legislation. (Apr 2012)
Tried to pass laws favoring domestic partnerships. (Apr 2012)
Voted YES on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act. (Feb 2013)
Opposes defining traditional marriage. (Oct 2012)

Endorsed as "preferred" by The Feminist Majority indicating pro-women's rights. (Aug 2012)

csziggy

(34,113 posts)
129. It was not Kaine's position THEN! He campaigned against the amendment
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:29 PM
Jul 2016

It was a voter initiative that passed by 57%. Then it passed the Virginia legislature with a veto proof majority. Kaine never signed it but it became an amendment to the Virginia state constitution anyway.

SB 526 Constitutional amendment; marriage may exist only between a man and woman.

Constitutional amendment (voter referendum); marriage. Provides for a referendum at the November 2006 election on approval of a proposed constitutional amendment to define marriage. The proposed amendment provides that "only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions." The proposed amendment also prohibits the Commonwealth and its political subdivisions from creating or recognizing "a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage." Further, the proposed amendment prohibits the Commonwealth or its political subdivisions from creating or recognizing "another union, partnership, or other legal status to which is assigned the rights, benefits, obligations, qualities, or effects of marriage." This bill is identical to HB 101.

<SNIP>
03/15/06 House: Signed by Speaker
03/16/06 Senate: Signed by President
04/10/06 House: Bill became law without Governor's signature, Chapter 828 (effective 7/1/06)
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?061+sum+SB526


Emphasis added by me.
 

Grey Lemercier

(1,429 posts)
94. I am a proud lesbian female and i have ZERO problems with Sen. Kaine as the VP
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:07 AM
Jul 2016

He, like 100's of millions, has evolved on the issue. I think he is a superb choice for Sen. Clinton. He is a genuinely good man from all accounts, and is more than prepared for the job.

SaschaHM

(2,897 posts)
100. So there's a bit more to that than you are letting on...
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:15 AM
Jul 2016

The Marshall-Newman Amendment was a legislatively recommended constitutional amendment. It passed both houses of the VA legislature with veto-proof majorities two years in a row and then was approved by the citizens of Virginia by 57%. That is how the constitution of Virginia is changed, not by the signature of a Gov. or not.

csziggy

(34,113 posts)
127. #14 - FALSE! It was a voter initiative and Kaine did not sign anything
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:26 PM
Jul 2016
SB 526 Constitutional amendment; marriage may exist only between a man and woman.

Constitutional amendment (voter referendum); marriage. Provides for a referendum at the November 2006 election on approval of a proposed constitutional amendment to define marriage. The proposed amendment provides that "only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this Commonwealth and its political subdivisions." The proposed amendment also prohibits the Commonwealth and its political subdivisions from creating or recognizing "a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance, or effects of marriage." Further, the proposed amendment prohibits the Commonwealth or its political subdivisions from creating or recognizing "another union, partnership, or other legal status to which is assigned the rights, benefits, obligations, qualities, or effects of marriage." This bill is identical to HB 101.

<SNIP>
03/15/06 House: Signed by Speaker
03/16/06 Senate: Signed by President
04/10/06 House: Bill became law without Governor's signature, Chapter 828 (effective 7/1/06)
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?061+sum+SB526


Emphasis added by me.

charlyvi

(6,537 posts)
136. 57% of the voters in Virginia voted for the Marshall-Newman amendment
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 01:52 AM
Jul 2016

The Virginia General Assembly approved the amendment to be put on the November, 2006, ballot. 57% of Virginians voted to pass it. Was he supposed to reject an amendment that 57% of the voters in his state wanted? He was Governor, not Dictator. You are making it sound as though the General Assembly sent him legislation and he approved it. Not so. Tim Kaine is pro gay rights; in fact, he was personally against the amendment


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/15/246786/-

"Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D) urged Virginians to vote against a proposed constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage and civil unions, saying the ballot question puts thousands of unmarried couples at risk of losing a slew of benefits."

Starry Messenger

(32,341 posts)
18. Where does this number come from?
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 07:49 AM
Jul 2016

As many as 22 million potential voters in November are thought to be Sanders-leaning Democrats


There were 12 million in the primary.

There are millions of potential Latino voters:

http://m.voanews.com/a/latino-voters-potentially-a-game-changer-in-the-us-presidential-elections/3357394.html

They live in states that could potentially go blue, with turn-out. I'm sure this was a crucial part of the calculus when selecting Kaine, who speaks fluent Spanish and has solid pro-immigration reform cred.

comradebillyboy

(10,076 posts)
40. Sanders won't be on the ballot in November so
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 08:49 AM
Jul 2016

it doesn't matter how many 'Sanders leaning' voters there are. They get to pick Trump or Clinton or maybe Stein or Johnson as a protest.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
19. The ones who will not vote for her now
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 07:50 AM
Jul 2016

Would not no matter who she picked. Bernie supports will vote for her following Bernie's lead.

Those who won't are Hillary haters who glommed onto Sander's campaign since he was running against her.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
36. Agreed
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 08:38 AM
Jul 2016

And if they are unable to, then leave this site. We are here, 3 months from the election, to encourage each other as we work to elect the Democratic ticket. As you would expect on Democratic Underground!!

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
35. Again, let's point out that the 'pure' progressives desperately wanted a former Republican as VP.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 08:38 AM
Jul 2016

I love Elizabeth Warren too, but if we're talking about baggage, and appealing to the far-left of the party, you would think that little detail might be important to keep in mind. It sort of makes hypocrites out of many of the loudest complainers.

Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #35)

Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #38)

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
71. You are correct
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:16 AM
Jul 2016

And I deleted my post.

I am tired of what I see as a very few people here trying to rehash the primary. But you made me realize that when I repond with snark I am doing the same thing.

Thanks and have a great weekend

G_j

(40,365 posts)
72. Thank you
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:22 AM
Jul 2016

that was refreshing! Seriously, I wish we could all make better attempts at communicating with, and understanding each other. Have a great weekend also.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
37. Kaine was not my choice, but Bernie supporters have to fucking get over it.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 08:42 AM
Jul 2016

Put away the feels and defeat Donald Trump.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
62. Sad, but not much of choice we have. It's either her or Mussolini.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 09:48 AM
Jul 2016

We have to get over it. Myself I had my fingers crossed she would select a VP like Senator Warren that would unite the party.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
130. Warren was my choice....
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:47 PM
Jul 2016

But I have to say, he impressed me today. Maybe I was wrong about him.

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
125. Can we please please have at least a day or maybe even two if you could be that generous,
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:02 PM
Jul 2016

to "fucking get over it" ?

Many thanks.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
131. Well, if you aren't throwing tantrums...
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:49 PM
Jul 2016

Take until election day if you need it. I'm concerned about those lsing their shit in public.

We need to unite and defeat this fascist.

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
132. Nobody seems to be losing their shit in this thread, except for a bunch
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:52 PM
Jul 2016

of people who have had things mostly all their way this year, and simply cannot bear to read anything about the ticket that isn't effusive sycophantic praise.

You know, all those people responding to this thread who can't seem to help weaving insults into it.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
144. I wasn't speaking to anyone in particular.
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 03:33 PM
Jul 2016

Most of the folks I'm referring to will never read my post, in all likelihood.

thucythucy

(7,892 posts)
42. Shouldn't that headline read "Some Bernie supporters"
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 09:16 AM
Jul 2016

or maybe even "a few Bernie supporters."

I supported Bernie in the primary, and I don't see Sec. Clinton's VP pick as a "rebuke."

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
60. That's what I think. The writer is just trying to agitate and create a story
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 09:45 AM
Jul 2016

out of a few anecdotes.

s-cubed

(1,385 posts)
43. Daily Kos: not safe, she's going for a rout.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 09:16 AM
Jul 2016

Before buying into the safe meme, you might look at this article.

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/7/22/1551239/-Kaine-Is-Not-Safe-Pick-Hillary-Is-Going-For-A-Rout

I was originally blah about Kaine, until I learned more of his background. Personally anti abortion, yet 100% from Planned Parenthood. He is a genuine progressive. His anti bank regulation is about the burden on credit unions and small banks, not the big banks. He hates the NRA, And the feeling is mutual. He is genuine, one of the attributes Bernie has. I am glad that HRC will have Warren, Booker, Brown, in the Senate instead of a Repub appointed replacement. Really check him out before you pan him.

He was my governor during the VA Tech shootings: he responds well in a cresis, caring about the people involved, and seeking solutions to help fix problems.

DinahMoeHum

(21,644 posts)
63. As for the disgruntled folks among Bernie supporters. . .
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 09:49 AM
Jul 2016

. . .Bernie and Liz will still work with the campaign by going out and explaining to those folks why they must put their butt-hurt drama-queen attitudes aside and look at the bigger picture. They will also encourage their supporters to work with such orgs like Brand New Congress to help get more progressive Democrats into office and take back the House.

If the Dems take back the Senate this year, Bernie and Liz will have more power and stronger platforms in which to espouse and enact more progressive laws. They are far more valuable at the Legislative office there than at the Executive office.

Clinton and Kaine, meanwhile, will reach out to the independents and, yes, the Republican voters who are disgruntled and disgusted with TrumpleThinSkin and his goons.


 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
48. I was hoping she would put the unification of the party first in
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 09:28 AM
Jul 2016

her selection. Warren would have done that.

Demsrule86

(68,004 posts)
58. In my opinion, those who are not united now will never seek unification.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 09:42 AM
Jul 2016

If you go to the other site, they say over and over that nothing would make them vote for Hillary and I believe them.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
79. Candidates in the past when coming out of the convention use to
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:38 AM
Jul 2016

work hard to unite the party. All polls showed they were wanting her to select Warren.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
57. I think this particular politico article is just a writer stirring the pot.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 09:42 AM
Jul 2016

With little hard evidence to back up claims the distaste for Kaine is so wide spread.

And 22 million voters are Sanders-leaning Democrats?

Sanders didn't get that many in the primary.

So I think this is a writer taking a few anecdotes and simply creating their own preconceived narrative.

It seems to be a very small minority of Sanders supporters who are so negatively reactive when it comes to anything Clinton.

And a certain number of that small minority are probably not Democrats anyway.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
120. And most of the ratfuckers
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 02:53 PM
Jul 2016

have gone Elsewhere. though every now and then one of them kites in to create drama.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
66. it wasn't a safe pick
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:03 AM
Jul 2016

It shows that any "concessions" she made to the issues raised during the primaries... economic inequality and increasing corporate control of our government and elections.... were completely insincere. I was hoping to be pleasantly surprised but instead I got what I figured was going to happen.

Response to John Poet (Original post)

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
77. News cycles.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:33 AM
Jul 2016

The Repub convention ended Thu, Hillary announces VP Friday, takes the attention off the Repubs for the whole weekend, then the Dem convention starts. In effect, we own the news cycle for a full week. Trump did the same thing.

Response to auntpurl (Reply #77)

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
80. Yeah, I think that's the general idea (re: cooling off).
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:40 AM
Jul 2016

Everyone has the weekend to get their thoughts/feelings in order before we all need to be unified for the convention. Senator Kaine wasn't my first choice (that would be Xavier Becerra) so I'm glad it wasn't "sprung" on me at the convention. Gave me time to do a little research and get to know him a bit better.

The Bernie supporters who are true progressives will look Sen Kaine up like I have and get to know him better. The Bernie supporters who are not progressives but actually just Hillary Haters had their minds made up and will not open their minds. They are stuck in rigid political ideology. I hope, and believe, that they are in the small minority and most Bernie supporters understand not only what's at stake in this election, but how they can carry Bernie's message forward - by getting Hillary into the WH and then working their tails off at all levels of government to get progressives elected.

Response to auntpurl (Reply #80)

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
90. I won't defend DWS.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:53 AM
Jul 2016

I'm happy for her to go if that's Hillary decision.

You mention Hillary's "past behaviour" while also mentioning Senator Warren. Elizabeth Warren used to be a Republican, and yet Bernie supporters love her (or at least they did until she endorsed Hillary). But they cannot accept that Hillary has evolved on issues like gay marriage, for example.

The Democratic platform is the most liberal one we've ever put together. Hillary did a speech last night in Tampa where she mentioned a Muslim Imam working with LGBT survivors in Orlando after the tragedy there. Can you imagine anyone who isn't a true liberal putting that in a speech, especially on the SAME DAY as an attack in Munich?

True progressives are forward-looking, compassionate people who know (often because they work as activists/social workers, etc) that the most disadvantaged members of our society are the ones who would be the most hurt by a Trump presidency. They would never let their own ideology lead them to make selfish choices that will hurt others far more than themselves. They care what will happen to AAs, Latinos, Muslims, LGBT, the working poor, the poor, and women in the next 4 years. They care that all those groups, and ALL the rest of us, will be hurt for a generation by 3-4 SC picks that Trump will use to DECIMATE any social progress we've made in the past 40 years. Progressives practice love and kindness. Anyone who would try to sink Hillary's campaign just to watch it all burn is not a progressive. They are anarchists.

Response to auntpurl (Reply #90)

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
98. I am American. I live in the UK. I'm from Philadelphia.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:12 AM
Jul 2016

Hillary was a Goldwater Girl as a teenager. She's been a liberal Democrat for the entirety of her career in public service.

"Echoes such sentiments"? Hillary has led the charge on paid family leave and women's rights for nearly 30 years. The Republicans are pandering - Hillary's actually done the work.

I'm glad to hear you're not voting for Trump, not least because you'd be banned from this website if you were. Are you voting for Hillary?

Response to auntpurl (Reply #98)

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
106. Of course I'm voting for Hillary.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:23 AM
Jul 2016

Edited to delete last response to banned troll. THANKS MIRT!!! You do the Lord's work.

LoverOfLiberty

(1,438 posts)
74. Some Sanders supporters
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:26 AM
Jul 2016

believe that picking the VP was the consolation prize for losing the primary.

Most, however, have moved on.

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
76. Tim Kaine is a good person. The greatest concern raised by his presence on the ticket is that he
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:32 AM
Jul 2016

reinforces Trump's effort to frame the issue as populist change versus establishment status quo.

There are dozens of great things you can say about Kaine (his religious missionary work where he learned Spanish, his ability to work alongside Republicans to set immigration goals, he has a son serving in the marines, etc.), but alongside those great things, you can also say that Kaine

* is an establishment figure
* supports the status quo
* accepted a lot of (LEGAL) gifts and paid-for vacations while an elected official
* is a proponent of global trade agreements
* is a proponent of deregulation of the financial sector

My point is not to criticize Kaine; instead, my point is that of all the possible VP choices, Kaine is the one who has made it easiest for Trump to frame the election in the progressive-versus-establishment terms Trump has chosen.

Kaine was not a "safe" pick; he was an inoffensive pick. The difference is that Kaine is a good man whose selection will not offend many people, but he is unsafe in that he is the choice who most completely reinforces the themes that Trump has chosen to define Clinton.



WIN BACK A DEMOCRATIC SENATE!

Arkana

(24,347 posts)
87. Mike Pence doesn't exactly scream "anti-establishment".
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:50 AM
Jul 2016

Guy was OMB director under Bush, and a congressman AND a governor from Indiana.

 

Mister Twilight

(60 posts)
84. I'm sure that Sanders supporters will vote for Clinton-Kaine
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:46 AM
Jul 2016

But to be perfectly honest, I was hoping she'd choose Warren or Perez. No matter. The game's afoot!

Arkana

(24,347 posts)
85. The people saying this didn't like Hillary before she picked Kaine,
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:48 AM
Jul 2016

and I'm willing to bet that picking Warren wouldn't have swayed them. They'd just say that Hillary would ignore her.

Response to Arkana (Reply #85)

JCMach1

(27,527 posts)
86. Not just Bernie Supporters... I see it as a rebuke of Progressivism
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:48 AM
Jul 2016

in-general.

I don't see a VP who was praising the TPP last week as an asset to anyone's ticket.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
105. There is no upside to this pick
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:21 AM
Jul 2016

For the GOTV effort that will be required.
And it has pissed off a lot of people.

jalan48

(13,751 posts)
89. The Democratic establishment appears to be begging for a third party movement to gain traction.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 10:51 AM
Jul 2016

It's going to be an interesting four years.

KPN

(15,535 posts)
103. Based on the little I know about Kaine, I am disappointed ... but
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:18 AM
Jul 2016

I will also give him a chance to win me over. There really isn't enough out there for me to come to a conclusion about him on economic issues, and his history on LGBT issues is confusing. Perhaps I will be surprised, which is basically how I feel as well about Hillary. On the other hand, Trump will not surprise me in the least ... I know what I'm getting with him and it isn't at all good.

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
108. Obama surprised the hell out of me.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:28 AM
Jul 2016

I was not happy in 08, although of course I voted for him. He won me over. He's been a great president.

I've been doing a bit of studying up about Kaine today, and I like him so far. He's basically Joe Biden 2.0, which is not a bad thing.

KPN

(15,535 posts)
117. We shall see.
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 01:42 PM
Jul 2016

I'm hoping Hillary and Kaine are more aggressive in pursuing progressive economic policy than the past two D administrations. Hillary has been saying all the right things, but Kaine doesn't reasily fit what she has been saying from what I can tell and know about him to this point. Time will tell ... keeping my fingers crossed.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
111. well you know....bernie did lose.....and his supporters can either support hillary or let trump win
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:35 AM
Jul 2016

seems to be a no-brainer to me.....never put ego first when your country is at risk


everything else is just NOISE

fishwax

(29,144 posts)
113. I (like every other bernie supporter I know) am totally behind the
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 12:04 PM
Jul 2016

nominee, and this pick doesn't change anything there. I haven't talked to all the Bernie fans I know about the Kaine pick, but among those I have talked to the reaction has ranged from a pragmatic okay to moderate optimism.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
119. The attitudes on this thread are not encouraging for kumbaya
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 02:22 PM
Jul 2016

People, including myself, are totally entitled to be disappointed and frustrated that Clinton chose a pick for VP that can be interpreted as a thumb on the nose to progressives.

He may turn out to be the greatest VP pick ever....or not.

But slamming and "shunning" those who express legitimate opinions that are contrary here is not an encouraging sign of inclusiveness.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
122. There is a small but vocal group of alleged progressives
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 03:10 PM
Jul 2016

who see everything that doesn't cater 100% to them as a deliberate and heinous insult. These are the folks who can't spell a one letter word and write "most people" when they mean "I."

It's a truly tiresome habit.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
126. Anyone that upset over a VP pick is being ridiculous. I never get upset or particularly excited
Sat Jul 23, 2016, 11:22 PM
Jul 2016

Over a VP pick. VP is a virtually powerless position with few Constitutional abilities.

If the President doesn't assign you projects, you sit around doing nothing. In a sense it is a pick that can be used to completely marginalize someone, and some VPs have definitely been given that treatment and felt that way.

As greenfield noted in a politico article back in May, our first Vice President," John Adams, who called it “the most insignificant office that ever the invention of man contrived.” (Then there was John Nance Garner: “Not worth a bucket of warm piss.” And Harry Truman: “About a useful as a cow’s fifth teat.”)

--------------
Get excited or upset over THAT? If you are looking to be excited or upset I suppose you can convince yourself. But someone that determined to be upset is not someone whose opinion is worth listening to, at all. I save my occasions for being upset over things that actually matter.

MFM008

(19,745 posts)
137. ok so i would have loved
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 02:47 AM
Jul 2016

Elizabeth Warren or Al Franken or Sherrod Brown ok?
But lets see how this plays out.
Its not going to stop me from voting HRC.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
141. Surely if Bernie Sanders himself enthusiastically endorses the ticket,
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 06:57 AM
Jul 2016

that should be good enough for his fans? Don't they respect his opinion in this regard?

And if Liz Warren endorses the ticket too, all the better, surely?

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
143. The left is over half of the American poltical spectrum. And we are going to elect Tim Kaine VP.
Sun Jul 24, 2016, 10:33 AM
Jul 2016

Bill should know that, and he should know that Bernie is a candidate, not a wing of the Democratic party. His premise is ill-founded. The candidate chooses the VP, not the winner's opponent.

Not to mention, Berners already love the Kaine pick.

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