My Republican relative from western Kentucky posted this on facebook. Here's my response

[greymattermom]

Her: Remember how in the old westerns the camera would slowly pan to the horizon and you would see little puffs of dust that slowly grew to be a manly man wearing a white hat and riding a beautiful horse?
That would be the hero riding to the rescue. It's a storybook world that we of a certain age grew up to believe in. That the good and the best will swoop in and save us from doom at the last minute.
This is the scenario that I had always pictured for America and the current presidential election. John Wayne would ride into the picture and every citizen could give a sigh of relief and know that this electoral farce is over.
But it seems the day of storybook endings is over. We have this choice: Of a lying woman that no one likes or trusts and who has been federally protected while she has grown financially fat. Or of a clown with a bad comb over and a big mouth that has no inkling of diplomacy or of world matters.
So, my friends, on Election Day I'm gonna pop a big bowl of popcorn, find an old western and pretend all this ain't happening!!

Me:If you don't like either one, think of who they would hire to run the country and what will happen to things you like, maybe National Parks.

Also just curious. Did she plagiarize her post?

[Siwsan]

1. Well, John Wayne was a multi married womanizing guy who played soldier, but never was one

So, he'd fit right into the rethuglican party.

As someone who has no problem with separating fantasy from reality, I never understood the "hero" appeal of that guy.

[monmouth4]

2. Me neither, every time I see him in a war movie I want to retch..n/t

[stopbush]

5. Many celebrities get married multiple times. Many have affairs.

Wayne was no exception.

Interesting - his wives were all of Hispanic descent. Wayne spoke fluent Spanish.

I don't agree at all with his politics. Like Reagan, he started out as a D (voted for FDR and Truman) before going over to the darkside, most likely because he was virulently anti-communist, and in the 50s, distancing yourself from the left was the way to go.

As an actor, I've come to appreciate and enjoy Wayne. His best movies - like Rio Bravo, The Searchers, The Quiet Man and El Dorado - are highly entertaining and well acted.

As far as Wayne's hero appeal - like the best heros, he shows a vulnerable side. He also takes a lot of guff before finally acting on his instincts. Most people can relate to that.

[Siwsan]

6. All a question of taste, where Wayne is concerned

i got a kick out of McClintock, but because of Maureen O'Hara, and pretty much the rest of the cast. Same thing with The Quiet Man. I think they only movie I really like him in was Hatari, because he really was playing against his usual character.

It is my observation that a whole lot of people seem to have confused the character of the real man, with the character of the fictional roles he played.

My point is, the political party that constantly touts "family values" seems to be challenged in finding any candidates that fit that particular life style.

[stopbush]

9. I doubt John Wayne would be OK with the overt racism,

bigotry and misogyny that infuses the R party these days. He was an R at a time when liberal Rs existed.

[Siwsan]

17. I never read anything about him that gave a hint of liberalism

Being married to Hispanic women doesn't mean anything. This is a portion of his interview in Playboy, in 1971:

"With a lot of blacks, there’s quite a bit of resentment along with their dissent, and possibly rightfully so. But we can’t all of a sudden get down on our knees and turn everything over to the leadership of the blacks.

I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility. I don’t believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people."

Portion about his view on Native Americans:
"I don’t feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them, if that’s what you’re asking. Our so-called stealing of this country from them was just a matter of survival. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves."

He also supported the House Un-American Activities Committee, and the John Birch Society.

[Doodley]

31. John Wayne was far more racist than Trump.

Look at this interview at 3:55 onward:

&list=PLfD1jVzIarKRMadbS6w9lu9ivfCpGL9PD

[Siwsan]

34. For someone who complained about people whining and bellyaching, he whined and bellyached, a lot!

[stopbush]

19. Don't a lot of people equally confuse his politcs with the roles he played?

In other words, they don't like his acting and his movies because they hate his politics.

If we want to go down that road, then we can't like the music of Wagner because he was anti-Semitic. We can't appreciate any art that was produced by people whose politics don't align with ours.

Enjoying an artist's work doesn't and shouldn't mean we are endorsing their political views.

[Siwsan]

21. I didn't think his acting roles were, for the most part, overly "political".

Back during his career, I doubt many people knew much about him, personally. I don't think it was until late in his career that he started speaking up. But he was known for his war films and I think that's where some people get confused, because he never actually served in the military.

It is as wrong to not like his films because of his politics, as it is to love his films and/or the characters he portrayed, and therefore think he would make a great President. Kind of like Reagan. Confusing the person with the characters.

[stopbush]

24. Wayne was known more for his Western movies than the war flicks.

All actors of his generation did lots of Westerns and moved into war movies in the 40s. Most war flicks from that era are gung-ho America fare.

Some actors - like Jimmy Stewart - enlisted and saw action. Others didn't. Wayne had no delusions that he had actually served in the military.

As far as Wayne during WWII, Wikipedia has this:

America's entry into World War II resulted in a deluge of support for the war effort from all sectors of society, and Hollywood was no exception. Wayne was exempted from service due to his age (34 at the time of Pearl Harbor) and family status, classified as 3-A (family deferment). He repeatedly wrote to John Ford saying he wanted to enlist, on one occasion inquiring whether he could get into Ford's military unit, but consistently kept postponing it until after "he finished just one or two pictures".[4]:212 Wayne did not attempt to prevent his reclassification as 1-A (draft eligible), but Republic Studios was emphatically resistant to losing him. Herbert J. Yates, President of Republic, threatened Wayne with a lawsuit if he walked away from his contract,[4]:220 and Republic Pictures intervened in the Selective Service process, requesting Wayne's further deferment.[4]:213

Wayne toured U.S. bases and hospitals in the South Pacific for three months in 1943 and 1944.[4]:253 with the USO[30][31][32] By many accounts, his failure to serve in the military was the most painful part of his life.[4]:212 His widow later suggested that his patriotism in later decades sprang from guilt, writing: "He would become a 'superpatriot' for the rest of his life trying to atone for staying home."[33]

U.S. National Archives records indicate that Wayne had, in fact, made an application [34] to serve in the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), that day's equivalent of the CIA, and had been accepted within the U.S. Army's allotted billet to the OSS. William J. Donovan, OSS Commander, wrote Wayne a letter informing him of his acceptance in to the Field Photographic Unit, but the letter went to his estranged wife Josephine's home. She never told him about it.[35] Donovan also issued an OSS Certificate of Service to Wayne.[36]

[Siwsan]

26. Jimmy Stewart, and many others from Hollywood, did amazing service during WWII

Men and women stepped up. For the women it was mostly selling war bonds and putting in time and effort into the Hollywood Canteen (specifically Bette Davis) and it was very important work.

I just recently read about Stewart's service and was amazed. He was a very humble man. And a Republican. And I loved his movies. I also read that he and Henry Fonda stayed friend by NOT discussing politics.

[stopbush]

27. See my previous post #24 which I updated to include info on why Wayne

wasn't in the service.

[Siwsan]

28. Will do!

My Dad was a big John Wayne fan.

[Cosmocat]

8. YEP

they eat him up with a spoon ...

[demigoddess]

33. John Wayne was too old and was too well known to serve in WWII.

He would have been a real distraction in the field and in training. The government felt he would do better making movies stirring the country into action. Also, though it was not publicized I believe he had injuries that disqualified him for service. He was a stunt man before he was an actor. And a football player before that. Falling off a horse can do terrible things to your backbone. And John Wayne drank a lot, every night after filming, could it have been because of pain?

[BlueStateLib]

40. 34

[Siwsan]

41. Jimmy Stewart, Henry Fonda and Clark Gable (among others) served.

Gable and Fonda were both older than Wayne. And I don't think Clark Gable lived the life of a Trappist Monk, before he enlisted.

Wayne was strong and physically healthy enough to ride horses, pretty much until the end of his life.

Maybe he just chose to stay in Hollywood and make money, rather than serve. People do tend to confuse the morality and character of the roles he played with the morality and character he practiced.

[glennward]

38. Sorta like Ronald Reagan?

[DemocraticWing]

3. That seems like a rather unreasonable expectation for politics

But I will say that any Republican in Kentucky planning to stay home in November sounds like good news to me. We have a Senate election to win!

[sofa king]

4. Gil Scott Heron's response:

[hamsterjill]

7. That's the problem. Perception versus Reality.

The reality is that John Wayne was an actor. The perception is wishful thinking.

Most of us have to exist in reality. Some refuse to.

[TheBlackAdder]

11. The guy who made a shitload of money dodging enlistment? Oh, that's right... he was "contributing."

.

As he continued an affair with German actress Marlene Dietrich.

http://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2819281/John-Wayne-DID-dodge-draft-continue-torrid-affair-sexy-German-actress-Marlene-Dietrich-best-lay-ve-new-book-reveals.html&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwj5weXGuILOAhXDdT4KHW16Dh0QFghKMAg&usg=AFQjCNFBuHiJ_J3RCeMwb2sS59nKSUgyZw

.

[hamsterjill]

13. No doubt. My point is that the idiots who remember him fondly

Are not connecting with reality. He was an actor. He didn't ride in and save anyone; yet, so many people (as illustrated in the original post) LONG for the days when he did. Those days never existed.

[Seeinghope]

14. He was an actor who's work was popular enough to become a movie star. His persona in movies

was often bigger than life, rugged, yet soft and "the hero". Whether he was that in real life is inconsequential. He was doing a job. Much like an artist does a job by their craft. Whether they were drug addicts, communists....does not take away from their appeal in their work. As in sports, singing, dancing...... Their private lives and their public life, as seen thru their performances are very different.

[hamsterjill]

15. That's my point. Please re-read my original post.

John Wayne didn't cause people to have an unrealistic view of things. It was the people who had the unrealistic view who were at fault.

The person in the original post commenting nostalgically about John Wayne had an unrealistic view of the way the world works. John Wayne was simply doing the job he was paid to do.

[Seeinghope]

16. I'm truly sorry. I meant to reply to the other post. We are of like minds!

[hamsterjill]

18. No problem. I kind of wondered that.

We're good.

Welcome to DU. Peace, and "Go, Hillary"!!!!!

[stopbush]

29. Wayne did NOT dodge enlistment.

See post #24 above.

[TheBlackAdder]

36. The reason why Wiki is not allowed in college, need to verify citations to see where info pulled.

[stopbush]

37. The citations are included in the Wiki article I posted.

[TheBlackAdder]

10. On the plus side, they aren't voting Republican.

[cynatnite]

12. How does she feel about John Wayne supporting white supremacy?

From the Duke himself

I believe in white supremacy, until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility. I don't believe giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people ... I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from [the Native Americans] ... Our so-called stealing of this country from them was just a matter of survival. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves.

https://books.google.com/books?id=A0wbaa9S53QC&pg=PA289#v=onepage&q&f=false

[JHB]

23. Or his drug use? Or his draft-dodging?

[stopbush]

30. Wayne did not dodge the draft.

He had an automatic deferment due to his age and the fact that he had a family.

He had no problem with his status being changed to draft eligible, but the studio didn't want to lose him and got extended deferments.

See post #24 above.

[JHB]

35. Fine, I withdraw the "dodger" claim, but still...

...Mr. manly-man super-patriot was one of the few Hollywood leading men of his generation who stayed out of uniform (except when it was a costume on set). Older men with families signed up, but not him.

All of the deeds he was famous for were fictional.

[Doodley]

32. Yes, he was a despicable human being. One of the worst racists in Hollywood.

[andym]

20. Well, now you know how Reagan got elected.

He literally played those parts in movies. People get confused between reality and fiction.

[JHB]

22. This is what happens when you can't distinguish reality from fiction

Last edited Thu Jul 21, 2016, 06:52 AM - Edit history (2)

The manly man wore a white hat, rode a beautiful horse, and rode to the rescue BECAUSE THE SCRIPT SAID SO. Reality was ALWAYS messier than fiction. Storybook endings mostly happen in storybooks.

That doesn't mean you don't draw inspiration from stories, but you have to be able to recognize when the story teller is trying to make you go "boo-hiss".

There are perfectly regular reasons to not like Hillary Clinton (or Bill), but conservatives have spent 20 years throwing turdballs at them in hopes that some fleck will stick and they'll be able to use it to bring them down. and when they can't get it, when all the turdballs just slough off into an ever-larger mound at their feet, they point with alarm at the fogbank of steam rising off it and fret "Y'know, where there's smoke...".

But lazy "a pox on both sides" cynicism is the mark of, well, laziness.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. If your "Republican relative" wants to stay home on election day, maybe just let her.

Why argue? She wont be voting down ticket, either, will she.

[cliffordu]

39. John Wayne was a coward and a scumbag.

He refused to meet with a group of wounded /disabled Vietnam veterans who went to the 68 (72?) convention to meet him. They were against the war. Hunter Thompson wrote about it, and it destroyed my vision of what Wayne was. I grew up loving him.