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(5,252 posts)
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 09:46 AM Jun 2016

The New Democrats learned everything they know from the Republican Party

Abandon labor and the working class for Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and the 10%
- Did Democrats notice Democratic administrations oversaw the distribution of wealth to the top 1%

Abandon stipends and pensions for the false promise of the lottery 401K economy
- You lose big, you win big. If you live long enough and are able to cash out before the next collapse, you are the winner!
- If you're not voting for Hillary because she's a woman, you're probably voting for her because you're stuck with a 401K thanks to millionaire Democratic politians. That said, this is really a "white people's problem" and one of the reasons why Bernie's message didn't resonate with poor blacks. Young whites (No Political Affiliation) are upset because both Parties are taking away their futures, whereas blacks have been facing this obstacle for generations. Bernie being a socialist was a very hard sell to blacks, as well, since they are the most loyal Demographic to the Democratic Party.

Our chances of winning increase if fewer people are allowed to participate.
- When was the last time a Democratic primary featured a Democrat versus a long-life long Indepenent? Never. So the fact that Bernie was appealing to people who identify as Independent was great for Hillary. "Your rallies look great on TV, just keep registering as Independents, we'll lock you out of the process. Then we will mock you for only going to rallies but not voting." Illinois was a very interesting primary result because it's Hillary's true home state and an open primary. That, and voting shennanigans, pushed Hillary past Bernie by less than 1%.

If all else fails, play the fear card
- SCOTUS; we're all Kansans now. We'll determine which Party oversees the distribution of wealth to the top 1% based on cultural issues.

Bernie offered America a rebirth of the Democratic Party -- the one that put people over profits and the middle class over the top 1% -- with the same Progressive cultural positions. Bernie and his supporters knew all along that Trump will get trounced. Hillary and her supporters have built Trump up as the second coming of Ronald Reagan. The GE was never going to be close. Hillary supporters only got nervous when they realized Bernie emerged as a formidable candidate. Prior to that, it was all joking about the Republican Clown Car. Bozo won. Now watch for the landslide of epic proportions you could have predicted if you didn't turn into scared Fox News viewer types.

At least 4 more years of sacrificing the middle class for the billionaire class because that's what you wanted, more of the same.

Disclaimer: if this kerfuffle about Warren being named VP isn't just a tease, I will happily back off my criticism of Hillary. Obama betrayed his Progressive platform for Clinton's immediately after the GE. If you deny or didn't realize it, just look at the long list of advisors and cabinet members he brought in. So I'm not so patiently waiting for the Clinton/Warren ticket.

18 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Old Codger

(4,205 posts)
1. Actually true
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 09:57 AM
Jun 2016

But won't stand long here as soon as the alert squad gets up today.. they were up late last night trashing all..


Old Codger

(4,205 posts)
4. Never
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:03 AM
Jun 2016

Alert on the truth, actually I have in fact alert maybe twice in 9 years and then only in the last few months...one for a hill fan calling Bernie a motherfucker, and that was allowed to stand...


Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
12. A question for you ardent Tick Tockers
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:09 AM
Jun 2016

Do you think that posts like #6 in this thread, wrongfully smearing Bernie, will be allowed after June 20?



(5,737 posts)
6. Bernie offered up a pipe dream without any real way of getting there. "Free" is so free
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:10 AM
Jun 2016

Obama has had to live in the real world, and he has done remarkably well in that world. Bernie offered up a lot of stuff, starting with free stuff, and his followers jumped right in. Problem is, a president can't do any of the things Bernie promised without the help of Congress. NONE. Bernie has offered nothing for the Democratic Party. Bernie wants to take the Democratic Party and make it his own, Based upon the primary, he should by now understand that Democrats like their party the way it is. By Bernie attempting to do that, he clearly has an ego problem.

Oh, and those 401K's, those defined benefit plans have all almost been bankrupted by the very companies that were running them. The beneficiaries had no say in anything. They were not investing at a level to keep them solvent. That was becoming evident in the early 90's based upon independent actuarial studies. That is the reason that 401K's came to be. You can lose your money either way. Oh, I've been a trustee for several years on health & welfare and pension plans for two large unions, so I've seen a few things from a different perspective.



(5,761 posts)
7. "Pipe dream". More GOP language.
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:18 AM
Jun 2016

Rather sad. You can't even fight for what is right for the American people, things which the rest of the civilized world has. It's always some excuse, it really is, only to project your Republican like vision on to everybody else.

I don't give a crap if Congress is red as hell, I want a guy who fights for what is rightfully ours and you know what? Trying is better than taking your ball and going home. There is a difference between quitting and when you've had enough; they aren't the same and we've had nothing but peace meal crap force fed to use for ages. That is why so many people are hurting in this country. Our politicians don't give a damn about us, except one guy; BERNIE.

No, Dems don't like the party the way it is and if they did they wouldn't be bleeding members. Dems had ONE chance to grow the party. They blew it! Badly.



(36,392 posts)
10. Using the Republicans language, as usual. "Pipe dream", "free stuff"
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:27 AM
Jun 2016

They don't really care that the party is almost dead. They can always vote Republican and get the same privatization, corporate rule, job-killing trade deals, military spending, and domestic spending cuts that they get from the New Dems.



(5,252 posts)
18. LBJ Obama was not. Hillary? TBD (I'll give her a chance.) We get two big wins with Hillary
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:08 PM
Jun 2016

First woman President - big win that comes with "externalities" (More of the same)


I'm holding out hope that Bernie and Warren have dragged Hillary into the light. I'll know after the GE.

Response to tonyt53 (Reply #6)


(10,472 posts)
8. "Abandon labor..."
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:19 AM
Jun 2016

This tripe is especially amusing, coming in the wake of the AFL-CIOs endorsement of Clinton this week.



(5,252 posts)
16. Maybe you should read up on union endorsements. Bernie's being called a union buster
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:39 AM
Jun 2016

because the locals aren't happy they National offices supported Hillary. The locals are saying the endorsement process isn't democratic and they should have a say in the endorsement rather than leave it in the hands of a few.

Thanks for bringing this up. This is another example of how Bernie's movement isn't down with establishment politics as usual and is seeking a more democratic process at all levels.


(10,472 posts)
17. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how labor unions work
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:07 PM
Jun 2016

Their leaders are empowered by the members to endorse candidates. If they don't like the candidate that their leaders pick? Too fucking bad, vote for a different leader next time you have your union elections.



(36,392 posts)
9. We are now in an enviable position that LBJ didn't have.
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 10:20 AM
Jun 2016

He knew that passing his progressive agenda would cost the party dearly at the polls, because the southern racists were at that time nominal Dems. But he knew that the Great Society was the right thing to do so he pushed, pulled, yelled, threatened, and won.

The current party is in a position where if they were to do the right thing, our ranks would swell - millions of new voters would flock to the party and stay there. But they are just too tied to the same things the Republican politicians are tied to to do what they need to do.



(14,255 posts)
14. Elizabeth Warren as VP would be a cynical and self-serving ploy on Hillary's part.
Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:20 AM
Jun 2016

Warren would be used to make us believe that Hillary would actually even listen to progressive and liberal ideas, and then be relegated to dinners and funerals and committees whose recommendations would never be passed by a GOP and/or DINO Congress, much less signed by Hillary. This would make the Third Way and Wall Street, as a bonus, extremely happy, as they consider that Warren has "gotten out of hand" as a Senator.

It wouldn't sway me one millimeter towards Hillary. We would still be subjected to war and fracking and the TPP and increased H-1B visas and fiddling with Social Security, and other Third Way neocon and neoliberal objectives. Only with one less vote against them in the Senate. Win-win for Hillary, lose-lose for the 99%.

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