2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHas anyone explained to the junior Senator from Vermont that talking about
the need to defeat Trump, but refusing to do the most basic of tasks in order to defeat Trump (like admit that the person who won the Democratic primary has won), makes the talky talk part seem less than sincere?
Asking for a friend.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)So I will congratulate him on is efforts when he actually does something.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)believes that, if he were to endorse and encourage his followers to support her now, Hillary would pivot entirely to the GE and stop paying attention to him. Vox also thinks that's probably quite likely. Otoh, Hillary could just tell him "to go pound sand" if he insists on asking for too much.
So he's being conciliating toward her without conceding, and at the same time he's trying to whomp up support for his continuing movement to have more to offer her in exchange for more.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)used deliberately, and I'm pretty sure he has more on his list for us. We need helpful GE action, though, and I presume that's what you're talking about. So maybe you just didn't notice that he is and has been badmouthing Trump, speaking against Republicans, twittering on the filibuster, etc.
What's really going on here? Surprise, anger that the Sanders isn't abandoning his "movement" to fall in line behind Hillary? That's not going to happen. It never was. Is there going to be another 5 months of this?
Demsrule86
(68,868 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)the first woman nominee inexcusably disrespectfully does not strike me as realistic or justified. Political opponents criticize each other, and frequently very harshly, as SOP. This strikes me as plain old villification and, frankly, I see no difference between that statement and "Hillary lied and broke the rules, and I therefore could never vote for her."
Shouldn't we be moving into the GE and focusing on the Right Wing threats to America and our way of life?
I'm in my 60s, btw, and have not once in my life said, "I'm not a feminist, BUT..." I'm a feminist. If you're young, that may not mean anything to you, but for probably a quarter century most people heard women timidly hedge their statements with that at least a couple times a week.
Demsrule86
(68,868 posts)Has any other candidate ever refused to concede? And the first woman is nominated...and this happens..coincidence...I think not. Bernie threatens the general until he concedes and endorses...a move to the general is not possible until after the convention since he will not do the right thing and help defeat Trump...actions speak louder than words. We lose over a month...because of Bernie's actions. Weaver said last night he still wants the nomination...disrespectful to Sen. Clinton in my opinion.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Do you really think rigid, uber-righteous Sanders, with his decades of hostility to liberals and the Democratic Party, labeling all who disagree with him as corrupt (not merely wrong, but corrupt!), would abandon his crusade to concede just because our future nominee was presumably going to be a man? Not a chance.
I agree that he is not doing his best by a party that, imo, he owes a large duty and debt to, but he does not feel that way -- and we always knew it would be that way. He's a crank, he always was a crank, but as cranks go, we could be far, far, far worse off. Most observers in fact believe he is overall good for the Democratic Party, and I do too. We need some cleaning up. Just not now right in the middle of a desperately important election.
Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #1)
Post removed
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)Talk is cheap, and, yes, I know his donations are down, but he needs to do something real.
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)It's a perfectly reasonable statement of fact: the promised tax returns never materialized.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)I did not notice until you asked.
Demsrule86
(68,868 posts)Monday it ends.
scscholar
(2,902 posts)is never soon enough.
aikoaiko
(34,186 posts)Go Bernie! Go!
SpareribSP
(325 posts)He also put it best saying that while we must defeat Trump, that's not the only thing. He will make sure to push things in a progressive direction.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)right now, it's all talk.
Lip service, nothing more.
Not an ally in the fight against Trump and the Republicans in the general election.
He hasn't earned the right to be considered that.
SpareribSP
(325 posts)He's rallying people RIGHT NOW IN THAT SPEECH to the Democratic party, and trying to bring new blood in. He's not wrong that he won the under 45 vote, and often by a large margin. He's saying what's needed to that demographic to keep them interested. They care about that giant list of issues he raised, not about a specific endorsement of Hillary. He may not be pro-Hillary, but he's definitely trying to help the Democratic party win.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)defeated candidates have a very short period during which they can refuse to acknowledge reality while retaining their credibility.
he's sailing past that threshold.
840high
(17,196 posts)is so important to you. Must he validate your choice?
Demsrule86
(68,868 posts)Concede and endorse.
G_j
(40,372 posts)sheshe2
(84,101 posts)Mark my words.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)for him to get on the ballot.
He'll just sit the fight out against Trump, or make a few token speeches and try to take credit.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Demsrule86
(68,868 posts)on raising money when the primary is over.
woolldog
(8,791 posts)He is all talk and that 's always all he's been. He sucks at translating talk into action and demonstrable results. That's why he's always been such a mediocre congressman and a bum until he finally decided to get a job in politics in middle age.
deathrind
(1,786 posts)However given the fact that for quite some time now Senator Sanders and his supporters have been hearing/told that SoS/Senator Clinton does not need his help or his supporters help/votes in defeating Trump,... that she's got this all wrapped up without them. So I don't believe that message of "unity" has been seriously considered by his campaign.
NanceGreggs
(27,821 posts)HRC needs Democratic supporters/votes in the GE.
It's up to individuals to decide if they are Democratic supporters/voters or strictly Bernie supporters/voters.
The former will vote for the (D) in November. Those who prefer to remain BSers won't. And if they're waiting to be wooed, cajoled, courted and/or romanced, I would suggest they don't hold their breath while doing so.
If you need to be wooed into "unity", your commitment to that unity is worthless. You do the right thing because it IS the right thing - and not because someone sent you flowers and a box of candy.
Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)Its household products. You know, because she's such a feminist
NanceGreggs
(27,821 posts)... whether you're wooed by flowers and candy or a new stainless steel fridge.
You either vote for the (D) in November, or you don't. No one is sending you roses or a state-of-the-art dishwasher either way.
And whether you think HRC is a feminist or not is of no consequence to anyone other than yourself.
chascarrillo
(3,897 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)BlueStater
(7,596 posts)...you sure do talk about him a hell of a lot.
jillan
(39,451 posts)President.
You would know this if you ever listened to him.
booley
(3,855 posts)I wonder if these guys have any idea how weak they make their candidate look
Demsrule86
(68,868 posts)He can't unless he quits the primary with a concession and an endorsement.
booley
(3,855 posts)I am sorry that you feel Clinton is weak a candidate that Sanders is hurting her just by not conceding before the convention (Which btw the way he can do. It's silly to complain that Sanders is following the system you all said he had to work within)
But frankly Clinton doesn't' seem to have any interest in motivating Sander's voters to vote for her instead. I am not ven sure she could if she wanted since she cant' attack his strengths (that he is seen as an anti-establishment populist) All she seems able to do is repeat Trumps words back at him as if we didnt' already know that Trump is a human land fill.
In short, Sanders isn't here for the convenience of Hillary Clinton.
840high
(17,196 posts)hysterical DU posters.
Number23
(24,544 posts)in Congress!!11
I thought his campaign pretty spectacularly crashed and berned a while ago, but he's taking a blow torch to his own embers. But I'm sure he plans on getting on Trump just as soon as Hillary has EARNED his endorsement or after the Democrats are done trying to get things done in the Senate without his help.
Yessirree. PRIORITIES people!!
Demsrule86
(68,868 posts)elleng
(131,457 posts)The most basic of tasks in order to defeat Trump is NOT to admit that the person who won the Democratic primary has won.
It is ridiculous to not recognize Senator Sanders' sincerity. http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512195795
Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)I mean c'mon. Imagine millions of citizens of this country actually demanding their government listen to their needs and wants.
Who the hell do they think they are Canadians or something?
pat_k
(9,313 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:28 PM - Edit history (1)
I just don't get all the whinging. The denigrating crap from people who have been denigrating him for the past year is not surprising, but they've really got themselves into a twist.
For all intents and purposes he HAS conceded. He couldn't be clearer. He's going to the convention with his delegates, not for the nomination, but to give voice to his supporters. He'll be fundraising for Dems down ticket. He'll be working to defeat Trump (i.e., get Hillary elected).
The course he is taking is the best way to maximize the chances that the people he inspired to get active, stay active into the future. And it's the best way to maximize the number of his supporters who will come out for Clinton, and other Democrats, in Nov.
Both very good things.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512195488
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)candidates. Funny that they are both men.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Seriously, now that he has time to look for a hobby.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I'm getting there, I'm trying anyways
Cha
(298,139 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts).. nothing else he says matters.
coyote
(1,561 posts)Demsrule86
(68,868 posts)Bernie will concede or not...the countdown towards irrelevancy has begun.
Gothmog
(146,030 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 17, 2016, 11:59 PM - Edit history (1)
Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Silver_Witch
(1,820 posts)Really take the weekend off. Celebrate your victory. Why the fuck do you give a rags ass what Bernie says or does! Move on my friend. Move on.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Demsrule86
(68,868 posts)Weaver says he is still going for the nomination...and until he concedes and endorses...he can't help in the general. What can he say...I won't endorse Hillary, but you should vote for her? Come on.