When a sitting president is challenged by a member of his own party - he loses

[question everything]

We saw it with Ford in 1976 who was challenged by Reagan. And we saw it with Carter who in 1980 was challenged by Kennedy.

Sure, there were other reasons for their defeat, but these challenges helped. If the party itself cannot support the president, why should I, concluded many voters.

Hillary, of course, is not a sitting president, neither is she a sitting V.P. But she has been considered the heir apparent. She will continue with the Democratic ideas of Obama.

Thus, the challenge "from within" from a wannabe Democrat Sanders, can have the same effect.

It is too bad that many Sanders supporters could care less that they are harming the Democratic candidates (and don't kid yourself, she will be the nominee).

I suppose when Trump takes the oath of office, they will just shrug and say that they had nothing to do with this.

[elleng]

1. 'Sorry,' there is no analogy here.

[Scootaloo]

2. "Hillary is not a sitting president" - so your attempt at an analogy falls apart halfway through

Are you done embarrassing yourself?

[question everything]

3. I suppose you never finish reading a paragraph

typical of the arrogant Sanderistas who can never formulate a coherent opinion.

[Scootaloo]

8. I did. It's just special pleading to bolster an argument you already demolished yourself

Clinton is not a sitting president, as you note. She is not even a sitting VP, as you also note. She's not holding any office at all. Trying to compare her to such scenarios does not make any sense at all. And no it frankly does not matter if you think she is the "heir apparent," because here in the US, we don't do heirs. She is not owed the office, she is not entitled to it, it isn't "hr turn," she's just one candidate of several (now three) and nothing more.

But do continue with your insults. At least you seem to have some modest skill with that.

[cali]

33. Haha. And I'll put my ability to articulate an argument up against yours

any day of the week- not to mention my analytic skills.

Tom Rinaldo? Bernie supporter and so far superior to what you produce, that it's akin to a a 1st grader attempting to debate the star of a college debating team.

I could name a dozen Bernie supporters who are more thoughtful than you and whose writing skills are superior to what I've seen from you.

[geek tragedy]

4. the closest parallel is Gore 2000 nt

[Blanks]

6. Where Gore made his mistake...

Was to put Clinton on the sidelines. He'd have won if he would have let Clinton campaign for him.

Of course that's just my opinion, but Clinton's approval rating was high even while the impeachment process was going on.

[geek tragedy]

9. it was a really low turnout election--people didn't think that much was on the line.

It's amazing to see people make that mistake 16 years later

[Blanks]

11. I know what you mean...

I thought Gore had it. Bush came across as a complete moron in the debates, it was obvious that he wasn't a 'successful' businessman by any stretch of the imagination.

Bush did so much damage that even with the improvements that have occurred during the Obama administration, we are still not back (economically) to where we were when Dubya took over.

I think Trump would be even worse. I can't believe there are people who don't know what they're putting at risk with all of this trash talk.

[forjusticethunders]

14. I was 11 at the time

I really only understood "Clinton good, Dems good, Gore good". (The adults in my life studiously tried to make sure I had no idea who Monica Lewinsky was, and all I knew was that Newt Gingrich was a "wicked man&quot That 2000 election was the start of my political education.

[libtodeath]

5. So you want a coronation.

[CorkySt.Clair]

17. There's way too much hay in the barn this primary season for it to be a coronation.

That is a construct of embittered Sanders supporters. Each of the candidates have fought hard and slogged through the muck at this point.

[libtodeath]

22. Go back and read the OP

It is basically what it is calling for.

[riderinthestorm]

7. Hillary will be solely to blame if she loses

She's a deeply flawed candidate with heavy baggage that's only going to get worse.

The DNC is also partially to blame for not allowing any younger strong contenders to contest this coronation.

This isn't Bernie’s fault. That lies entirely with the DNC and especially with Hillary.

[question everything]

12. I was not aware of the DNC not allowing younger contenders

I think all of us, Democrats, wished for a real race. And, frankly, I am not sure who would have been a strong candidate.

In general, I worry that there are no young Democrats waiting in the wing.

We talk about Castro (or the Catros) but how many have ever heard of them? Cuomo? really?

It is ironic that the Republican candidate is a 70 year old Trump. At the beginning, I was envious, and posted here, that the "clown car" had so many candidates in their 40s and 50s. Where are ours?

Sherrod Brown and Elizabeth Warren are 63 and 66, respectively.

[riderinthestorm]

23. Tammy Duckworth, Kamala Harris, Tulsi Gabbard, the Castro brothers, Cory Booker

Patrick Deval.... (that's just quickly off the top of my head).

We have a fair few really good people who could have gained a lot of name recognition and experience if they hadn't been basically shut out by Hillary’s run. Martin O'Malley is now a name every Democrat knows because he ran. He's a much stronger candidate for a future run.

[question everything]

35. Agree about O'Malley

I don't know that Kamala Harris and Tammy Duckworth are known outside their states. If they will win a senate seat - this will improve their exposure. And.. I admit, I don't know who Tulsi Gabbard is..

I also have hopes for Cory Booker. And I had for Deval Partick but now he is associated with Bain Capital (Romney's Bain Capital??)
so I don't think he will have many followers. Using the current term - the "optics" are not good.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

24. "isn't Bernie's fault"?! How many

millions of dollars has Bernie's campaign spent since, as far back ass March, Bernie's chance of reaching 2,383 delegates became nil? Are you arguing that these millions of dollars had no effect on voters, but instead were completely wasted? Every dollar a campaign spends is aimed at affecting voter choices, positively or negatively.

Every dollar Bernie has spent since his abysmal delegate count made his nomination impossible could have had no positive effect on his chances of becoming President. But those dollars could have had negative effects on Hillary's chances of becoming President. And just listen to what Bernie has been saying about HRC recently, echoing Trump about her judgment, character, trade policies, etc., etc.

This is why in virtually every campaign for President in every party in US history, candidates whose chances of getting nominated become minuscule concede and stop spending. They know that they no longer can help their own chances, but that they can hurt the chances of those remaining. For the sake of the party, they concede and drop out.

Not Bernie, and not Ted Kennedy in 1980. I really hope Bernie does not give us Trump the way Teddy Kennedy gave us Reagan.

"Not Bernie's fault" if we get a President Trump? You are wrong, in the amount of millions of dollars of negative campaigning against HRC.

[riderinthestorm]

28. Nope. Hillary will own her own defeat. She has to persuade us to vote for her

This isn't a coronation.

Bernie’s campaign is about getting his message out on climate change, income inequality, banking failures, affordable college, healthcare as a right, getting us out of useless ME wars, proper funding for vets etc etc. That you or anyone sees those messages as threatening to Hillary says everything about what's wrong with status quo politics now.

His message is designed to endure beyond the election and progressives should welcome that pressure on the Democratic party. Personally I want him out there getting the word out for as long as he can.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

30. Should Bernie keep his campaign offices open after

someone else is nominated in July?

That's what Ted Kennedy did.

Ted Kennedy had what many thought was a great message also. But look what his efforts gave us: Reaganomics, urban homelessness, looting of Social Security to finance "tax cuts" for the wealthy, "Reagan Democrats", mass incarceration, etc., etc. Are you willing to risk a Trump Presidency by promoting needless turmoil, rather than unity, in the Democratic Party, after the upshot of the primary vote is known?

[riderinthestorm]

31. My local Bernie office has gone self-funded and we're helping local and state races

We meet every other week.

Bernie has "closed" his offices. We're keeping them open. His message resonates beyond this cycle.

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. Wow that's some convoluted pretzel analytical logic failure

You got going on there.

I would have to grade that as a D minus if you were one my 7th grade students. I didn't fail you because you did show at least some effort.

I could break it down why I gave you that grade if you so wish so you can show it to your parents

[cali]

13. The heir apparent?? Jaysus. And Hillary supporters rail against that meme

when it comes from Bernie supporters.

[randome]

15. Little Red Hen says: "You don't help with the work, you don't get shit!"

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Armstead]

20. That's sexist. I am horribly offended

Truly and deeply, to the depths of my soul.

[randome]

21. Sorry, it's well established that LRH is an equal opportunity taskmaster.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[ProgressiveEconomist]

16. Carter-Kennedy could become a close parallel

and is a pretty close parallel now, IMO.

It was unprecedented for Ted Kennedy's campaign not to shut down all its offices after the 1980 convention re-nominated Jimmy Carter. Similarly, it is unprecedented for a 2016 candidate who is 770 delegates behind with 917 remaining to be chosen not to have conceded and exited from public view. Rather Bernie is negotiating to share the same stage with the presumptive Republican nominee for co-ordinated attacks against the presumptive Democratic nominee It remains to be seen whether Bernie still will keep "campaign" offices open after the convention is over in July.

[question everything]

34. At least Kennedy was a Democrat. Sanders is not (nt)

[PufPuf23]

18. One of the problems is that the DNC treated Hillary Clinton as if Clinton was an

incumbent and presumptive Democratic POTUS nominee 2016.

The DNC failed to support a slate of candidates to Democratic voters in the primaries and caucuses.

Hillary Clinton also has historically high negative ratings.

This could all have been avoided and the Sanders supporters should not be blamed for the mistakes of the DNC and Democratic party leaders.

I like Sanders but was surprised that he came to be a candidate and surprised at his success, It was refreshing to have a candidate who is not a neo-liberal or neo-conservative. But I would have found a candidate to support in the primaries in any case who was not Hillary Clinton.

My attitude is that I am feverently anti-Trump and expect to vote Democratic for POTUS in the general election for the 12th time but aside from McGovern and Kerry never for who started out as my favored candidate (but only of those actually running at the time, so really never).

I may withhold my vote on principle if Hillary Clintion is the nominee and can do this because I vote in California.

I don't expect Sanders to be the nominee even if Clinton is forced to drop out. In that case I favor Kerry.

If Trump wins, the fault is 100% on the DNC and Democratic party leadership for poor service to general Democratic party members in what should have been a walk-over election for the Democratic party and now at risk.

[Armstead]

19. WTF you talking about? Is Clinton the incumbent?

[lagomorph777]

25. So now we've jumped from "presumptive nominee" to "she won" to "she is POTUS already?"

Holy moly that takes some moxy.

[highprincipleswork]

26. That's right. We'll say what was true all along. She is a massively flawed candidate.

[wendylaroux]

27. say what?

[pangaia]

29. Go piss somewhere else.

In the meantime--





GO METS !!!

[katsy]

32. What are you saying

no dem nominee should have competitor?

No analogy to sitting presidents. You just wanted the dnc to pick/crown PBO's successor without a vigorous, even a vicious fight?

Fuck no. Democracy is messy. And it doesn't happen by our "betters" picking the nominee.

[joshcryer]

36. Those who vote for the nominee will not be too blame.

Let's get that very fucking straight. Sanders won my state. My vote does not extend beyond my district. It is not on me.