2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumGuccifer News (Warning: from FOX)
Last edited Thu May 26, 2016, 12:09 PM - Edit history (1)
ON EDIT: Yep, she scooped it! http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512057675
I went there so you don't have to - but candidly, this particular reporter has been getting some good scoops a little ahead of the other news outlets. Also, she donated a part of her liver to save her young child and is now an advocate for organ donation, so she has some good karma points. As for her work ethic, she is very cautious about identifying "opinion versus fact" which I like, and she keeps getting her hands on actual documents, including apparently, a copy of the plea agreement. HOWEVER, she is from FOX, so skeptiscm is reasonable. In other words, take the "provable facts" in context, and wait for the rest to play out.
Hacker who claims he breached Clinton server pleads guilty, strikes deal with feds, FOX News, May 25, 2016
The Romanian hacker who claimed he easily breached Hillary Clinton's email server pleaded guilty Wednesday in federal court to two counts of computer hacking charges, as part of a deal with the Justice Department.
In exchange for a reduced sentence, Marcel Lehel Lazar also known as Guccifer -- has agreed to cooperate with federal authorities in the future.
Lazar pleaded guilty to the unauthorized access of a protected computer and aggravated identity theft, counts tied to his illegal intrusion into systems belonging to former U.S. government officials, including former Clinton adviser Sidney Blumenthal and former Secretary of State Colin Powell.
(snip)
As outlined in the plea agreement which Fox News has reviewed, Lazar has agreed to extensive cooperation with the U.S. government. According to the court filing, Lazar has agreed to be "reasonably available for debriefing and pre-trial conferences as the U.S. may require."
The document states: The defendant agrees to testify truthfully and completely at any grand juries, trials or other proceedings.
Additionally, Lazar has agreed to provide all documents, writings, and recordings within his custody to the U.S. government that may be relevant to investigations or inquiries.
(more at link)
Interesting, eh? A hacker who worked alone has agreed to "testify truthfully and completely" about what? And what kind of documents does he have?
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Otherwise known as Clinton supporters.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)He would do what Snowden did and handover the proof...and it would have been out there by now.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)But that is neither here nor there.
Try reading some of the news out of Russia about his involvement in helping lead their state-paid hackers to her server. Don't know if any of it is true since I don't know the validity of many Russian news sources, but the conversation is definitely out there and this could be the info that our government wants.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Legal experts the other day were saying that if he pled guilty to hacking
Blumenthal that this would establish as evidence that HRC allowed classifed information to be vulnerable to foreign entities.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)it doesn't magically make it untrue just because it was Fox News. And regardless of the source, the facts aren't facts unless they can be corroborated.
Like anyone else, Hillary is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. But there is also the court of public opinion, in which she is already held in pretty low regard.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)voting booth. A possible indictment would have to come into the reasoning on who to vote for.
I heard Nixon tell me "I am not a crook." I am not interested in voting for another possible person who might be either indicted or impeached.
She is presumed innocent in a court of law but no one else needs to make their decision on that. This needs to get cleared up as soon as possible.
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)I'm pretty sure this could have been resolved one way or the other a long time ago. But that's not the Clinton way.
scscholar
(2,902 posts)early today when interviewing Fallon. It's sad how much of an anti-Clinton bias the media has.
840high
(17,196 posts)haven't kidnapped me yet.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)I agree, it's extraordinary that the Feds are treating Guccifer as a credible witness. He must have hacked her server and have files that are incriminating. Looks like his source for her server ID was Russian intelligence. Extraordinary.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)him? Someone who is extremely smart suggested that her unsecure server may have provided Chris Stevens' killers with information about a highly classified US operation leading in some way to compromise of that program. Gawd only knows what's on the 30K "private" emails she and her lawyers and staff tried to erase.
fancypants75
(54 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)who was killed in Benghazi stating that the consulate couldn't withstand an attack sent the month before it all went down. She's got some good sources!
840high
(17,196 posts)erections nor am I a republican.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)but can still create massive problems if leaked into the wrong hands because you're exchanging this info on an unsecured server.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)I read he gave a copy of the contents of Hillary's server to Russia, China and one other country. So I am pretty sure he did hack her server and he did locate a number of different files, some of which had to have been classified. One of the emails on her server had the true name of an operative, as opposed to his or her alias. Later I read her server had a complete list which contained agents true identities as well as their undercover identities. Some of these operatives were on the job overseas.
Sam
leveymg
(36,418 posts)view of the contents long before Guccifer reportedly got there in February 2013, at the time Hillary had left the State Department, and that window was no longer of much interest to Russian intelligence. Exposing it through a hacker all strikes me as Russian intel's way of thumbing their nose at what what they may have concluded was a disinformation program.
To a rational person, it makes no sense that the US Secretary of State would have opened this window to the world without US intelligence knowing about it, as well, unless the same US agencies wanted that to happen. I would agree that seems on its face to be a plausible explanation, except I can't believe that the entire USG would be going through such an elaborate charade to maintain such a fiction so long after it was made public.
None of it makes sense, in the larger view, even the theory that it was originally some sort of a disinformation program. The only plausible explanation at this point is that this was indeed an unauthorized system set up by Hillary and her small circle and that they did this despite the obvious dangers of exposure of the contents of the server, and that the NSA would pick up on it. Amateur recklessness and arrogance rather than professional cloak and dagger. All the time, NSA was watching until it all got blown sky-high in September, 2012.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)Your words "none of it makes sense" jump out because that is exactly how I am starting to feel about the whole debacle.
Sam
Response to IdaBriggs (Original post)
Beausoir This message was self-deleted by its author.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)panader0
(25,816 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)article so attack the source.
corkhead
(6,119 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)spin
(17,493 posts)assuming she actually is the Democratic candidate for president.
Perhaps it might be wise for the Democratic Party to have a good back up ready to step in and substitute for Hillary if it proves necessary.
Response to IdaBriggs (Original post)
TM99 This message was self-deleted by its author.
madokie
(51,076 posts)This place was all but unreadable after Obama won because of the PUMA's. Yes I'm serious as a heart attack when I say that.
For a long time I couldn't figure out why it was allowed to continue but now I know. We had the same problem in the EE group with pro nukies. Posters getting by with a lot of shit that were way worse than what a lot of good posters have been banned from these pages for. I finally found out that the ignore function works so well that I don't worry with this kind of shit anymore as I'll just ignore them. I don't have enough time left in my life to put up with bullshit.
I'm sure I'm on a lot of ignore list myself and I'm fine with that.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I've got on my ignore list. Every time they keep saying "well she had no INTENT so it isn't a crime" I want to tell them to go read your posts on the topic.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)I have the feeling a lot of the more obnoxious Hillary partisans are about to drop off, anyway. What will this place be like without them?
barrow-wight
(744 posts)This just keeps getting better.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)He already leaked those. Unless he got them from Sidney Blumenthal, he most likely pulled them off of Hillary's server.
TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)This place just keeps getting funnier.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Her bio says this:
She is married to a military serviceman, and as a mom I absolutely respect the fact she donated a piece of her liver to save her baby. I also understand and respect the visceral reaction to FOX that so many of us have. I have been told that they are working to be a "real news" organization due to a change in management, but again, skeptiscm is the word. Feel free to ignore the information if you please - odds are good other news outlets will have it in the next few days.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)However, to be clear, since the paperwork was filed under seal, we dont know for sure what it contains. The sealed docs could also include paperwork related to Lazars transfer to another detention facility to in preparation for court Wednesday.
Another reason for sealing documents, according to Pate, could be that the paperwork relates to a search warrant, cooperation agreement or the testimony of a witness. If the information is at all related to an ongoing investigation, the DOJ would want to keep that information confidential, at least for now. Interestingly, the two documents are the only entries that have been sealed in Lazars entire criminal case.
http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/secret-documents-filed-in-case-against-guccifer-who-says-he-hacked-clinton-server/
This was reported on Law Newz yesterday. Seems the plea was sealed, but someone has leaked portions of it.
BTW, Dan Abrams is no right-winger. He brought us both Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow during his tenure at MSNBC.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Not sure he has yet earned trusted status. I could be wrong.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)are any indication.
I didn't start reading him until recently (I didn't know this existed until about a month ago), so I can't speak to what he posted in the past. Had he been a Hillary apologist before?
leveymg
(36,418 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)officials who retained, removed or shared classified materials without authorization -- Petraeus, Deutch -- were originally charged under that same section of the Espionage Act, even if they pled down (Petraeus) or the AG allowed the case to expire with the result of a Presidential pardon (Deutch). See, http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/analysis-hillary-clinton-commit-crime-based-today/story?id=36626499
I don't think he was being entirely honest, or is badly informed, and the Clintonites have seized on the argument he made.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I think a lot of people didn't realize 793 fit until recently because they had been badly informed, mostly by the Clinton campaign, about the extent of the failed security of that server.
Also, people who are smart about some things still can't seem to grasp the difference between a private email account and a private email server (again, mostly because the Clinton campaign wants to conflate the two). I think people are starting to wake up as more information comes out.
amborin
(16,631 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)the article specifically mentions Powell and (more importantly for Hillary) Sidney Blumenthal. He has previously stated he has two gigs worth of data, and stated in media interviews that he got into the Clinton Server, but the article specifically says the server isn't mentioned in the plea agreement.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)JudyM
(29,237 posts)So since DOJ is planning to use him as a witness, either everything he said is true or there is sufficient corroborating evidence to support his other assertions - enough to get by his credibility problems.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Not exactly Kevin Mitnick stuff
barrow-wight
(744 posts)Why not just go ahead and list all her charitable donations too?
I swear some of you post these Fox news links with the greatest of glee.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Welcome to DU!
I am comfortable with the caveats I gave; people who want to can wait a few days for other sources. As I said, this reporter has been scooping everyone.
barrow-wight
(744 posts)I'm just not quite convinced.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I recommend http://thompsontimeline.com/The_Clinton_Email_Scandal_Timeline as an excellent place to start. Good luck!
barrow-wight
(744 posts)I was speaking on caveats for Fox credibility.
amborin
(16,631 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)to learn the truth then they will understand.
Trolls don't want to learn though, do they?
It makes me sad.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)When no argument can be found, bring out the Brock Troll argument.
840high
(17,196 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)I don't know why someone would try to do that because some people don't want to know the truth or the facts so their is really no sense in wasting your time and effort to convince them to think.
You just proved their point.
barrow-wight
(744 posts)It couldn't just be that it's a notoriously bad source for "news."
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)They are going to be thorough, but I'm married to an accountant so my guess is that they have known where things were going for a while now, and have budgeted accordingly.
Plus people like to clear their desks before a nice three day weekend.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)but I have been a busy beaver and maintaining a time line and yes it does look like it is picking up speed
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)AND a pizza riding on that timing!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Ok if it breaks Friday, I am going to be stuck downtown ducking gas canisters, hopefully not
leveymg
(36,418 posts)They're the interested agencies who started this referral business. Then comes the FBI report - the timing of that is contingent upon the WH pressuring HRC to sign off on a deal. If she doesn't, this all drags out past the Convention. Then, we will have screwed ourselves, and will have no one else to blame but ourselves for the consequences in November.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)antigop
(12,778 posts)She won't "sign off on a deal."
She won't.
It's HER TURN.
antigop
(12,778 posts)Chuck Todd:
"Look, clearly their decision is to never give an inch, right, which is the clinton playbook going back to 1992. And it's worked for them in the past, right? They just grind their way through it.
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/mika-it-feels-like-clinton-is-lying-straight-out-693313091808
Geesh, I have to agree with him.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)feeling desperate. I've provided some reasonable caveats, but facts are facts.
You can wait a few days if you'd like. Usually the other news outlets follow this particular reporter (who has some excellent sources, based on the accuracy of her leaks thus far).
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)Their agenda is to defeat the Democrat, Hillary or Bernie. They will say whatever they think it takes.
Go with reputable sources. If they're reporting the same, then it's news.
And manage your stress! Geez, I do not want you to blow a gasket!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)reminds me of a couple that wrote for that rag called the WAPO in 1972 or so, and yes it was a rag, and they rode that Pullitzer for decades after wards. Some folks, like the owner's sons, want a reputable news source and they have given her quite a bit of leeway.
kstewart33
(6,551 posts)If not the Washington Post. But Faux News?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)as I said, they took the leash off. I do this for real, and I see the pattern. This is a reporter that has been given free range and has the sources. This is why everybody follows her. And if the NYT picks on her scoops, you should think about it.
840high
(17,196 posts)like a good reporter.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I have taken from everywhere. But for these stories, she scoops everybody
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Just because you want to believe doesn't make it true.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)or Reuters. for example would not be picking them up.
I just put together a time line, It does not show links... Timeline 3D, but seriously some of my links are to DOJ, State, her reporting, AP, Reuters, WAPO, NYT. This is a very real story. When you see the big picture over half a decade it is scary. I can also tell you the two mistakes made by the Clintons.
1.- The server. It went live a week before she was sworn in. She never activated her GOV account.
2.- Because of that, this left the opening for JW and their FOIA lawsuits. This is not coming from the Benghazi committee. it is not helping, but this is coming from JW.
Now need to check on that movie again. Am afraid now I finally have to explain this mess to my local readers.
amborin
(16,631 posts)Bob41213
(491 posts)Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Investigations take time. We are probably at least a few months out.
Will Clinton do the right thing? Even if there is a 5% chance, she should not take it.
Don't drag down the entire ticket!
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)But was negotiating for a couple of months before.
I don't think it just started today.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Here's another thought about the timeline:
I feel that the FBI director's press conference a while back was a warning to Dem leadership that the investigation was going to take time and likely conclude after the convention. He was giving them an out.
Did they take the hint?
Bob41213
(491 posts)They began interviewing him in Romania. He said all along he was more than willing to cooperate.
He no doubt told them what he had before they bothered extraditing him here. They wouldn't extradite him if he had nothing. He'd still be rotting in Romania if that was the case. He's here right now for a reason.
He also came over willingly, he did not oppose the extradition.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Here's an article from February of this year - http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/internet/hacker-guccifer-seeks-extradition-648293
mythology
(9,527 posts)This hacker repeatedly posted proof of his previous hacks. But not his claimed hack of the Clinton server. Either he changed his pattern, or he wanted people to think he was cooler than he was.
And given that his previous "hacks" were social engineering and getting in through Facebook and other means, I am at best skeptical of his claims.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Of course they extradited him, and know what he actually has - I don't know how he got the "Bill Clinton doodles".
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)find him credible.
https://cryptome.wikileaks.org/2016/05/lazar-guccifer-028-031.pdf
Response to mythology (Reply #45)
IdaBriggs This message was self-deleted by its author.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)So... yeah.
Merryland
(1,134 posts)the fact is, he could have - and there were others out there trying, according to the IG report. She did not give a rat's ass for the nation's security, just her own "privacy."
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)that is not even in dispute
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Being able to guess Blumenthal's AOL password does not mean he would also be able to hack into Clinton's server. One has nothing to do with the other.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)It's no coincidence that the only emails Guccifer released to the public were ones he got from "hacking" (ie guessing the password of) Sidney Blumenthal's AOL account. If he'd actually breached Hillary's server, he would've publicly released some non-Blumenthal emails from the server to prove it.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)I don't think he'd actually release those to you. But I bet the FBI wouldn't go through all the trouble if he had nothing. I don't know if he has anything, but you are way to quick to dismiss it. The FBI is interested.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)Speaking only for myself I prefer more information not less so I appreciate your posts even ones from FOX.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)which are supposed to be left leaning, but aren't, haven't done any credible reporting on it. EXCEPT, Joe and Mika, ironically. They've also been doing a great job.
We're upside down.
Uncle Joe
(58,361 posts)Thanks for the thread, IdaBriggs.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)it makes me smile and feel happy. I really appreciate that, especially on some of the tougher posts where I am telling unpleasant truths and getting sneaked at by people who think my having a different opinion than theirs means I have joined the "vast right wing conspiracy" or been brainwashed or something. THANK YOU!!!! I appreciate the support!!!
Baobab
(4,667 posts)The Clintons had a lot of dealings with various very wealthy dictators, despots, and criminal corporations.
And also just regular folks who wanted to donate their foudation millions of dollars.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)They all cashed. What more does America need from its leadership? and a bit of
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It's always good to know how those scum are spinning things. They really cater to LIV's.
randome
(34,845 posts)Seriously, at what point do you become self-reflective enough to consider the possibility that you were wrong? Do you understand how long you've been flogging this dead horse?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)It is because you have chosen to remain willfully ignorant.
I don't tell lies, even by omission. I realize integrity is something you don't understand or recognize, but that is on you, not me.
In the meantime, I am clapping like crazy because I BELIEVE!!!
vintx
(1,748 posts)This is going to be ugly
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)barrow-wight
(744 posts)You seem to post from there a lot.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I've been here close to twelve years. You seem to be attempting to insult me.
That makes me
Logical
(22,457 posts)Response to IdaBriggs (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)Getting information on this issue is like pulling teeth . I guess time will reveal if this is the case , hopefully sooner rather than later . This is not the baggage the party needs heading into a GE .
MFM008
(19,808 posts)Almost Anything can be hacked. I think in the 90s someone released the entire black budget online. Why do you think they use the old portable discs for the nuke codes. They can't be hacked like a new system could.
Sorry Berners. Someone said today unless Clinton acted with malice she will never be indicted.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)We know he hacked Blumenthal, and we know Blumenthal had information he wasn't supposed to have (because he was sending it to Hillary).
Interesting that you also automatically assume Hillary is the target, and then hope "intent" will save her from her any harm caused by her actions.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Watching that case go will be and worthy.