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CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:13 AM May 2016

Bernie: He owes us an answer

Bernie Sanders has spent much of the last month and a half openly complaining to anyone who will listen that the problem with the primary process is that not enough people are able to participate. He practically demanded that the party open every state's primary, despite not being in control of them.

Last night, for the second time, a state that Bernie won by a large margin in a caucus held a non-binding primary. And for the second time, there was a massive swing in support, and Bernie lost.

Bernie is famous for saying "we win when voter turnout is high". Nebraska and Washington have now proven that to be a lie.

If Bernie honestly believes in what he says about opening up the system, he owes us an answer for why he is silent on caucuses, when it has now been twice proven that he only won some of his biggest victories because of a system that makes voting too hard for most people.

He can't remain silent anymore. We must demand he address this issue.

118 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bernie: He owes us an answer (Original Post) CrowCityDem May 2016 OP
First, he doesn't owe you anything, so there's that. Matt_in_STL May 2016 #1
Sure doesn't owe the party a thing. merrily May 2016 #3
The party owes him a fair chance but with GOP SUPER PAC ENDORSED Schultz roguevalley May 2016 #117
Actually he owes the party some loyalty for a change...nt asuhornets May 2016 #5
Bull sh*t tazkcmo May 2016 #10
How can your candidate be a better candidate when you don't hold his feet to fire.. asuhornets May 2016 #12
Your Candidate "I made a mistake" I made a mistake, I made a mistake...that's what hurts. bahrbearian May 2016 #19
At least Hiilary Clinton can own up to her mistakes...and her supporters will let her know asuhornets May 2016 #23
ROLFing Silver_Witch May 2016 #24
That's why Sanders is losing and he and his supporters have no idea why? asuhornets May 2016 #28
Problem is, the mistakes she makes gets people killed, or lose their homes apologies don't fix that! bahrbearian May 2016 #25
None of what you are talking has anything to do with Hillary. asuhornets May 2016 #31
Well from your perspective I guess he needs to vote for more wars, since there is no bahrbearian May 2016 #39
You don't want to at least know why Sanders lost? asuhornets May 2016 #52
Lost what , did HRC change the rules. bahrbearian May 2016 #55
You don't hold Hillary 840high May 2016 #103
She made a mistake with the emails-she admitted that--she gave others ammonitions to use against her asuhornets May 2016 #118
His biggest victories were Oregon and Vermont. merrily May 2016 #2
Not in terms of delegates. If WA held a primary the first time, Hillary would have clinched already. CrowCityDem May 2016 #7
Bull Shit , we've been told for six weeks after the Caucus that the primary won't count now you bahrbearian May 2016 #22
I'm not calling for it to count. I'm simply saying if these caucuses were primaries... CrowCityDem May 2016 #27
Clintonite's were to lazy to caucus, they sit at home and Mail in their ballots. Don't have time to bahrbearian May 2016 #33
So only caucus votes are real votes? CrowCityDem May 2016 #35
No you play by the rules, something HRC should understand, Oh wait, rules for Clinton don't apply. bahrbearian May 2016 #40
Excuse me? Do you live in Washington? LisaM May 2016 #41
I'm disabled I made it , we've been told for six weeks after the Caucus that the primary won't bahrbearian May 2016 #49
Ummm...I didn't say I thought we should count it. LisaM May 2016 #54
So you didn't caucus this year ? Now you want to change the rules. Or pretend the caucus bahrbearian May 2016 #58
So you didn't caucus this year? Now you want to change the rules. Or pretend the caucus don't matter bahrbearian May 2016 #59
I sent in an affidavit. But I know more than a few Hillary voters LisaM May 2016 #60
Good for you. But you don't talk for all disabled and elderly. And certanly not for all people who lunamagica May 2016 #107
Oregon is 100% mail-in. TwilightZone May 2016 #61
Washington is 100% mail in too, and a primary would be better , but the Dem Party of Wash. bahrbearian May 2016 #63
Very typical - see Michigan and Florida, 2008 Matt_in_STL May 2016 #29
Can you imagine the endless conspiracy theories sufrommich May 2016 #4
well that didn't happen so it will have to stay in your little imagination. Cobalt Violet May 2016 #37
Hillary owes us what she said to the Wall Street Banksters. B Calm May 2016 #6
You really need to focus on your own candidate. leftinportland May 2016 #8
"This is the process... deal with it." Tell that to Bernie. CrowCityDem May 2016 #15
It is an unfair and unpleasant process. LisaM May 2016 #46
If you didn't like it you have had years to complain and change it. Matt_in_STL May 2016 #77
The party, for some reason, has not been amenable to changing it. People have tried. LisaM May 2016 #83
So, in the past 8 years, what have you personally done to change the process? Matt_in_STL May 2016 #87
I heard on another thread from a WA resident floppyboo May 2016 #104
Then vote to change the party heads. If the party won't do what you want, vote them out. Matt_in_STL May 2016 #106
True. What will I do today? LisaM May 2016 #114
There was only one team playing Clinton. Bernie owes no explanation for the false narrative Clinton Skwmom May 2016 #9
I think what he meant to say was "we win when white voter turnout is high". nt LexVegas May 2016 #11
You are owed zilch. bvf May 2016 #13
I hope you and your demands have a nice day. DisgustipatedinCA May 2016 #14
. Doctor_J May 2016 #16
It's not a lie. Orsino May 2016 #17
What a crock of shit. LWolf May 2016 #18
They had second thoughts about Bernie. hrmjustin May 2016 #20
bleep blorp frylock May 2016 #75
Aww ain't you cute! hrmjustin May 2016 #82
My ma sez that I'm pretty. frylock May 2016 #84
She was being nice. hrmjustin May 2016 #85
Of course. She's a real nice, classy lady. frylock May 2016 #88
Lead by example. hrmjustin May 2016 #89
I don't throw shit. I just scrape it off and wipe it in the thrower's face. frylock May 2016 #90
Well that was not the case today. hrmjustin May 2016 #92
bleep blorp was in response to your repeated talking point. frylock May 2016 #93
Following me? hrmjustin May 2016 #94
Hard not to. frylock May 2016 #95
How said you are giving into peer pressure! hrmjustin May 2016 #96
Hunh? frylock May 2016 #98
Use your great power of deduction. hrmjustin May 2016 #99
Well, this has been productive. frylock May 2016 #100
You came looking to start in with me. hrmjustin May 2016 #102
I start in with the bullcrap posts. frylock May 2016 #109
If you say so. hrmjustin May 2016 #111
I think I just did. frylock May 2016 #112
That is a matter of opinion. hrmjustin May 2016 #113
Nope. My work is done here. frylock May 2016 #115
Not much to show for it. hrmjustin May 2016 #116
A time-warped 60s radical, who is either ignorant of the primary process or just plain disingenuous. Surya Gayatri May 2016 #21
How much do these Brock-bots get for this B.S? brentspeak May 2016 #26
This is too fucking stupid. Take your demands and... morningfog May 2016 #30
Bernie is favored in caucuses drray23 May 2016 #32
Lies trudyco May 2016 #64
The Chair was thrown under the bus. Thinkingabout May 2016 #86
You DEMAND? Oh, that is rich. Who is WE? pangaia May 2016 #34
Why weren't Clinton supporters motivated enough... dchill May 2016 #36
Because you don't just vote. LisaM May 2016 #50
That non-binding primary is not an unbiased sample hellofromreddit May 2016 #38
Given the suspicious nature of vote count versus exit poll trudyco May 2016 #42
Why does Washington State have a caucus? Because the Democratic Party sued the State to Bluenorthwest May 2016 #43
I'm asking Bernie to be consistent. CrowCityDem May 2016 #47
And yet your complaints are with choices made by the Democratic Party. Not by Bernie. Bluenorthwest May 2016 #53
I wasn't complaining that there was a caucus. CrowCityDem May 2016 #56
That's hilarious. Sorry, it's just outlandish. Bluenorthwest May 2016 #65
Yes, Bernie's whining is hilarious and outlandish. CrowCityDem May 2016 #67
I am very critical of the state Democratic party in this case. LisaM May 2016 #66
Bernie owes you nothing, not one fucking thing. Autumn May 2016 #44
The non Democrat complaining about a process all the Democrats have participated in without griping. seabeyond May 2016 #45
Please note that the OP is demanding that Bernie complain about caucus systems in WA Bluenorthwest May 2016 #51
I don't think that is the gest of the OP. seabeyond May 2016 #69
The OP is just pointing out Bernie's hypocrisy. LisaM May 2016 #70
Bernie is a DINO workinclasszero May 2016 #48
Like all primary candidates, Bernie is taking whatever wins he can get. MineralMan May 2016 #57
Odd are a WA primary would go like the Oregon primary.... Bluenorthwest May 2016 #68
you never voted for Bernie. he doesnt owe you shit. n/t leeroysphitz May 2016 #62
Bernie loves to speak in fact free rhetoric that enrages his following with bullshit Sheepshank May 2016 #71
Bernie is not going to be the nominee. bigwillq May 2016 #72
bwhahaha: NO ONE CARE WHAT YOU "DEMAND" TheSarcastinator May 2016 #73
k & r LAS14 May 2016 #74
He doesn't owe you anything. He did not create Caucus states. Obama said nothing about them bkkyosemite May 2016 #76
More unoriginal drivel from the Brock-puppets n/t arcane1 May 2016 #78
YOU'VE WON. Just ignore Bernie at this point. Why give him air time with this post? n/t yodermon May 2016 #79
Why the hell would he owe anyone anything??? nt polly7 May 2016 #80
Massive? Why can't you be honest? B people - me may not have voted paper. Wish Sawant SD. snowy owl May 2016 #81
Good questions MariaThinks May 2016 #91
The use of the word 'lie' LoverOfLiberty May 2016 #97
Yes, but in this case it's true. CrowCityDem May 2016 #101
Did he say it before or after the fact? LoverOfLiberty May 2016 #108
He's been saying that ever since New Hampshire, and it's never been statistically true. CrowCityDem May 2016 #110
He doesn't owe you shit. HERVEPA May 2016 #105

roguevalley

(40,656 posts)
117. The party owes him a fair chance but with GOP SUPER PAC ENDORSED Schultz
Wed May 25, 2016, 02:09 PM
May 2016

and STILL WAITING FOR YOUR SPEECHES, DOESN'T COOPERATE WITH EMAIL INVESTIGATIONS, LOVES WAR AND MAYHEM HRC in charge, don't hold your breath.

tazkcmo

(7,323 posts)
10. Bull sh*t
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:29 AM
May 2016

He's been voting with Dems since he entered politics. He doesn't owe anybody anything. Entitlement is the hallmark of the Clinton campaign. Entitled to the nomination. Entitled to no review of position shifts, outright lies, FBI investigations are anything else that remotely resembles accountability. Hell, the campaign is already blaming Sanders supporters for her eventual loss to Trump while absolving the Inevitable One of all responsibility for being a poor candidate.

asuhornets

(2,405 posts)
12. How can your candidate be a better candidate when you don't hold his feet to fire..
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:32 AM
May 2016

Bernie Sanders has made plenty of misstep and his supporters make excuses for him. That's not helping him

asuhornets

(2,405 posts)
23. At least Hiilary Clinton can own up to her mistakes...and her supporters will let her know
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:48 AM
May 2016

when she messed up.

asuhornets

(2,405 posts)
31. None of what you are talking has anything to do with Hillary.
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:56 AM
May 2016

Name one thing about Sanders that you think he needs to improve on?

bahrbearian

(13,466 posts)
39. Well from your perspective I guess he needs to vote for more wars, since there is no
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:04 AM
May 2016

consequence. "I made a mistake, Sorry about your Daddy little girl, there, there all better now."

 

840high

(17,196 posts)
103. You don't hold Hillary
Wed May 25, 2016, 01:27 PM
May 2016

responsible for anything. It's always rw talking points according to you.

asuhornets

(2,405 posts)
118. She made a mistake with the emails-she admitted that--she gave others ammonitions to use against her
Wed May 25, 2016, 03:40 PM
May 2016

She broke no laws--other SOS have done the exact same thing. Oh she's made plenty mistakes as we all have , but that does not mean she should not be president.

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
7. Not in terms of delegates. If WA held a primary the first time, Hillary would have clinched already.
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:23 AM
May 2016

bahrbearian

(13,466 posts)
22. Bull Shit , we've been told for six weeks after the Caucus that the primary won't count now you
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:48 AM
May 2016

now it to count . Typical Clinton

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
27. I'm not calling for it to count. I'm simply saying if these caucuses were primaries...
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:53 AM
May 2016

Bernie would already be back in Vermont, preparing his grill for the summer cookout season, since he wouldn't be running anymore.

bahrbearian

(13,466 posts)
33. Clintonite's were to lazy to caucus, they sit at home and Mail in their ballots. Don't have time to
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:57 AM
May 2016

talk to their Neighbors.

LisaM

(27,933 posts)
41. Excuse me? Do you live in Washington?
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:09 AM
May 2016

The caucus was held on Easter weekend. There were very few permissible excuses for not attending and things like not having transportation or being a caregiver were not included. In some cases it involved ten hours of committment. The experience was also exceedingly unpleasant for Hillary supporters, just as it was in 2008 and by all accounts got worse at the county conventions. It has nothing to do with being lazy and comments like this are really unhelpful.

bahrbearian

(13,466 posts)
49. I'm disabled I made it , we've been told for six weeks after the Caucus that the primary won't
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:16 AM
May 2016

count , now you want to count it. My caucus lasted 1 hour. I would have preferred a Primary but its the rules.

LisaM

(27,933 posts)
54. Ummm...I didn't say I thought we should count it.
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:22 AM
May 2016

I am not sure where you extrapolated that. And if yours only took an hour, you were lucky. Me, I was still pissed about being yelled at by my own neighbors in 2008 and didn't relish a replay this time. I don't think intimidation should be part of the political process, but we will have to disagree on that.

bahrbearian

(13,466 posts)
59. So you didn't caucus this year? Now you want to change the rules. Or pretend the caucus don't matter
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:26 AM
May 2016

LisaM

(27,933 posts)
60. I sent in an affidavit. But I know more than a few Hillary voters
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:33 AM
May 2016

who chose not to participate. I have actually been advocating for a primary since 1988 and I would still prefer it. I never liked the caucus to begin with but I have detested them since my 2008 experience, which was really upsetting. Your aggressive attitude and lies about my comments and participation are just proving my points.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
107. Good for you. But you don't talk for all disabled and elderly. And certanly not for all people who
Wed May 25, 2016, 01:37 PM
May 2016

could not take the time from work, or afford a babysitter.

Someone posted today that they Caucused for FOUR DAYS. Who has the time for that? Minorities and the working class don't have such luxuries.

Caucasus are the most undemocratic process that exist, as Nebraska and Washington proves. But I guess undemocratic is OK as long as Sanders wins

TwilightZone

(25,702 posts)
61. Oregon is 100% mail-in.
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:33 AM
May 2016

I guess Sanders supporters are just as lazy, if not more so, hmm?

This place just keeps getting funnier.

bahrbearian

(13,466 posts)
63. Washington is 100% mail in too, and a primary would be better , but the Dem Party of Wash.
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:39 AM
May 2016

wants caucus's, Now HRC doesn't like that, "Lets change the out come of a system we endorsed."

"This place just keeps getting funnier." "Bernie isn't Playing by the rules "

sufrommich

(22,871 posts)
4. Can you imagine the endless conspiracy theories
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:20 AM
May 2016

that would be generated by Sanders supporters if Clinton had won the caucus and lost the popular vote?

leftinportland

(247 posts)
8. You really need to focus on your own candidate.
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:25 AM
May 2016

Had Washington held only a primary and not a caucus and as an after thought a non-binding primary, the results would have been different.

If Washington only held a primary the results would most likely mirror Oregon where Sanders won by 13%.

This is the process In Washington...deal with it. You really need to focus on your candidate and try and deal with all her negatives because she doesn't look real good when pitted against Trimp in the General.

LisaM

(27,933 posts)
46. It is an unfair and unpleasant process.
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:11 AM
May 2016

It couldn't be more undemocratic as the turnout proved. I will be calling the state Democratic party today.

 

Matt_in_STL

(1,446 posts)
77. If you didn't like it you have had years to complain and change it.
Wed May 25, 2016, 12:56 PM
May 2016

I'll look up the rest of the Hillary supporter responses to this issue in my handbook later.

LisaM

(27,933 posts)
83. The party, for some reason, has not been amenable to changing it. People have tried.
Wed May 25, 2016, 01:04 PM
May 2016

And yes, I am a paid up member of my district Democratic party, so I feel that I should have a voice. I've participated in the caucuses here since 1992 and I can tell you that they have gotten progressively worse. I don't particularly like being harangued for voting my choice and I didn't like seeing the really ugly side of one of my neighbors back in 2008. I'm sure people who voted for the winning candidate have a different story to tell - it was probably fun for them - but people shouldn't have to dread going to vote and it also shouldn't involve a 10-12 hour commitment. One of my friends said that at her county convention, they had to sit through 800 short speeches.

 

Matt_in_STL

(1,446 posts)
87. So, in the past 8 years, what have you personally done to change the process?
Wed May 25, 2016, 01:08 PM
May 2016

Did you gather signatures? Did you attend meetings and rail against caucuses?

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
104. I heard on another thread from a WA resident
Wed May 25, 2016, 01:28 PM
May 2016

that a referendum was held and it was voted to ditch the caucuses, but the state Dem. party insisted on holding caucuses anyways. So, looks like you can do ALOT - Vote successfully to change the rules - and be ignored anyways.

LisaM

(27,933 posts)
114. True. What will I do today?
Wed May 25, 2016, 01:51 PM
May 2016

I'll call them and point out the numbers. I'm not sure what you think people can do about it. They're a private organization and not bound by a referendum. You'd think the numbers alone would convince them. I think they hang on to it because of tradition, but they've gotten out of hand. My first one had 9 people sitting around in chairs in a circle and no one changed anyone's mind and then we all left. The last two have been in rooms that were way too small and people were obstreperous and, at least in 2008, refused to go through all the housekeeping details needed in the precincts and just demanded to vote right away. And bullying was allowed. Having affidavits available was a step forward, but there were too few reasons allowed.

Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
9. There was only one team playing Clinton. Bernie owes no explanation for the false narrative Clinton
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:28 AM
May 2016

is trying to sell.

Clinton has the party machine to turnout the vote in a non-binding primary while Bernie has turned his attention to the states he is actually competing in.

The Clinton Candidacy - Nothing but smoke and mirrors.
 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
13. You are owed zilch.
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:34 AM
May 2016

I, on the other hand, am still owed an explanation about Bosnian sniper fire, for-profit prisons, the thousands dead as a result of the Iraq war, praise of Nancy Reagan's noble work on the AIDS epidemic, exportation of fracking, cheerleading welfare "reform," rhetoric intended to subvert Kerry's Iran deal, imprisonment of marijuana users, militarization of municipal police forces, what she's said to Wall Street execs behind closed doors at six figures a pop, etc.

I don't hold her husband's blow jobs against her. That was all the asshole's own fault. (But it certanly helped Bush steal the 2000 election.)

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
18. What a crock of shit.
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:42 AM
May 2016

All the answers that Clinton supporters demand are trivial, irrelevant, and an obvious distraction.

It's Washington Democrats that determined to hold both a caucus and a primary, but to use the caucus results to determine delegates. Sanders doesn't owe any answers about that.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
93. bleep blorp was in response to your repeated talking point.
Wed May 25, 2016, 01:19 PM
May 2016

Seen you post it three or four times already this morning.

 

Surya Gayatri

(15,445 posts)
21. A time-warped 60s radical, who is either ignorant of the primary process or just plain disingenuous.
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:45 AM
May 2016

A slippery, forked-tongue fraud who slithers off when confronted with tough questions.

Don't expect any response to this conundrum any time soon.

drray23

(7,664 posts)
32. Bernie is favored in caucuses
Wed May 25, 2016, 09:57 AM
May 2016

Because it is inherently a flawed process. In a caucus, you have no privacy for your vote, you can and do get harassed by other people to change your vote. Bernie's young supporters are very adept at bullying others to vote for him. If you are a millennial, I would imagine it is pretty hard to tell your peers you are supporting Hillary.

We have seen how Sander's supporters behave in past events, most notably at the Nevada convention. Whether or not chairs were actually thrown,there is no denying it was an ugly chaotic process with angry people shouting insults at fellow democrats.

trudyco

(1,258 posts)
64. Lies
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:39 AM
May 2016

Caucuses at least have the advantage that the vote counting can't be tampered with mostly (the aggregating of votes can, apparently, as witnessed by the Colorado state DNC).

None of the things you said happened in the caucuses I've been in, closed caucuses in my state. None. The sites have been understaffed and overcrowded but the excitement and passion, the nice polite speeches people give to persuade the undecideds... is just the BEST experience of democracy one can have. Nobody feels pushed around or bullied! People even cheered for Democrats in general at the end of the last one I went to. There is nothing more exhilarating. I don't think you've ever been to a caucus. You are just spouting talking points you know nothing about. I watched 40 year olds help steady the walk of 80 plus year olds as they waited in line. I watched 20 somethings pull up their van to let out a 60 something relative with a crutch get to the front of the line and everybody in the front helped them. Democrats are nice people. Americans are nice people. I'm really sick of Correct the Record BTW. They think we are stupid.

I actually think nobody cares about vote privacy, especially in the primaries. There is barely any evidence of voter fraud but plenty of evidence of election fraud. We could do primaries with computer vote counting if everybody picked a random NUMBERED ballot id, paper trail, voter gets a receipt with ballot id. They go to a separate room or section of existing room where they voted and ten minutes later or so they can watch up on a big screen their vote, identified by the ballot id, being added to the totals. The vote counting is open to poll watchers of all participating candidates as well as the voters who just voted and it is recorded so a voter may check their vote later, identified by the voter id, on the internet. Complaints can be handled by the poll watcher for their candidate, or an 800 number for everybody, or a website for those checking their vote getting counted online.

Then the count has a random sample audit which is publicly displayed to make sure the computer counts matched the paper hand counts. Nothing is official till all votes are counted and counting verified, complaints resolved. No more provisional ballots not being counted.

Both primaries and GE should be monitored by the UN elections integrity and there should be exit polls. Voting for both primaries and GE should be a holiday and every elementary school should be a poll site, unless it is very rural and then it's the high school. Same day registration. Party affiliation can be changed up to two weeks ahead, voter notified by all methods available (phone call, mail, email, text message). They get a notification at the two week mark of what party they are (or no party) so they have two weeks to fix any "mistakes". Felons get to vote after they've served their sentence. Homeless may use the address of their preferred shelter or soup kitchen to sign up. You could have early voting, with the same set up, on weekends prior to the holiday vote day.

If we are a democracy then we should be promoting voter participation and vote counting integrity. Real Democrats get this.

dchill

(38,753 posts)
36. Why weren't Clinton supporters motivated enough...
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:00 AM
May 2016

to vote in the one that actually counted? Do we not understand the meaning of "non-binding?"

LisaM

(27,933 posts)
50. Because you don't just vote.
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:16 AM
May 2016

The 2008 caucuses were bad enough. Most of the Hillary voters I know didn't care to be bullied again this time. I am glad a lot of us made their opinion known in the primary, even though it didn't count.

trudyco

(1,258 posts)
42. Given the suspicious nature of vote count versus exit poll
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:09 AM
May 2016

I won't believe she won Washington without cheating unless you can show me her vote count was at least within the MOE of exit polls. If not, it's most likely she is cheating just like Bush did in 2000, 2004 and like she has done in all the other states with primaries.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
43. Why does Washington State have a caucus? Because the Democratic Party sued the State to
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:09 AM
May 2016

insist upon that caucus after the people voted to hold a primary by mail. If you don't like that caucus, your criticism is criticism of the Democratic Party's choices in Washington State.
Hillary supporters do lots of big talk about how they are very loyal to the Party but in reality they complain and criticize the Party constantly as the OP is doing here. The OP expects Bernie to lecture the Party about their caucus, but if he did the OP would attack Bernie for being critical of the Party. It's a loopy, circuitous Lewis Carroll sort of thing.

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
47. I'm asking Bernie to be consistent.
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:14 AM
May 2016

He's been railing for months about how unfair everything is.... except for caucuses. When we now have two states of evidence showing how different the results are when there is a primary, he has been SILENT. That's unacceptable, since this is a narrative he's been driving.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
53. And yet your complaints are with choices made by the Democratic Party. Not by Bernie.
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:21 AM
May 2016

Look, the Washington Primary is non binding. They already made their choice using the method selected by the Democratic Party. The outcome of the afterthought, non binding Primary is legally meaningless and impossible to quantify because most humans will not bother to cast a vote that is not in fact a vote.
Why are YOU silent as the Democratic Party insists on caucuses over primaries, they sued the State to get that caucus. If no one stops them, they will do it again next time.

I note you ignore every point made to you. I can see why you'd do that, you have no foundation to your arguments.

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
56. I wasn't complaining that there was a caucus.
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:24 AM
May 2016

I'm complaining about the fact that Bernie, despite his screaming about every other aspect of the system that he thinks is unfair, never says a word about caucuses, even when there is now clear evidence that they alter the outcomes. Unless he says something forceful about them (even though it's already too late), I can't take anything he says about 'fairness' seriously, because he's only complaining and whining about the things that don't give him an advantage.

LisaM

(27,933 posts)
66. I am very critical of the state Democratic party in this case.
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:40 AM
May 2016

I don't know why they persist in clinging to the caucuses. This year was particularly annoying because it was held on Easter weekend.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
45. The non Democrat complaining about a process all the Democrats have participated in without griping.
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:11 AM
May 2016

There is nothing special about Sanders and no reason for all of our primary be adapted to him. How entitled and privilege he feels.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
51. Please note that the OP is demanding that Bernie complain about caucus systems in WA
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:17 AM
May 2016

which is in place entirely because the Democratic Party insisted upon it and litigated against the State to continue when Washington's voters wanted to hold a primary by mail instead.
The OP is complaining about Democratic Party policy, choices and initiatives and is asking that Bernie complain as well. Bernie is not complaining about Washington, the OP is.

LisaM

(27,933 posts)
70. The OP is just pointing out Bernie's hypocrisy.
Wed May 25, 2016, 11:06 AM
May 2016

The caucus system has been hugely beneficial to him. Hillary won't complain about the different results and the much larger turnout in the primary but you can bet that Bernie would have. He probably would have filed yet another lawsuit.

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
48. Bernie is a DINO
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:15 AM
May 2016

He's only in this for himself.

He embraces undemocratic processes if it benefits his bottom line...votes.

MineralMan

(146,436 posts)
57. Like all primary candidates, Bernie is taking whatever wins he can get.
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:24 AM
May 2016

Odds are that if the Nebraska and Washington primary events had been elections, he'd not have done as well. It's easy to flood a caucus with supporters and get a good result. Not so easy with elections.

Same think happened here in Minnesota. Our state primary, which will include presidential candidates, will be on June 24. You can expect a similar result on that date, too, to Nebraska and Washington's state primaries. It won't affect the delegate allocation, since that was determined by our caucuses, but it will explain why Minnesota will be having primaries in 2020. That measure was just signed by the Governor, after having been passed in both houses of our state legislature.

The caucus system is moribund. More states will stop using caucuses to select delegates in presidential years, I'm sure. We're seeing why now. Good riddance to caucuses, even though I enjoy attending and chairing them. They just aren't representative of voters' wishes.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
68. Odd are a WA primary would go like the Oregon primary....
Wed May 25, 2016, 10:46 AM
May 2016

We are similar, we are adjacent and sadly the Democratic Party of Washington has insisted upon the caucus system via litigation against the State. A Washington Primary was to have been conducted by mail, similar to Oregon's method but the Democratic Party put the nix on it.

If Nevada goes back to a Primary system next cycle, history will show that Hillary Clinton won both contested Nevada Democratic caucuses, 08 and 16. I assume now that this is done, Harry will be ok to return to the Primary system.....he really wanted that caucus. Reid I mean.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
71. Bernie loves to speak in fact free rhetoric that enrages his following with bullshit
Wed May 25, 2016, 11:37 AM
May 2016

and then those self same followers chant and buy the meme and spread the falseties...it's kinda like small pox.

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
72. Bernie is not going to be the nominee.
Wed May 25, 2016, 11:39 AM
May 2016

It's probably best to use time and energy to build up Hillary and attack Donald Dump.

TheSarcastinator

(854 posts)
73. bwhahaha: NO ONE CARE WHAT YOU "DEMAND"
Wed May 25, 2016, 11:49 AM
May 2016

F'N HILAROUS LEVELS OF HUBRIS.

I will enjoy watching the crash-and-burn.

bkkyosemite

(5,792 posts)
76. He doesn't owe you anything. He did not create Caucus states. Obama said nothing about them
Wed May 25, 2016, 12:55 PM
May 2016

while he was running for President.

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)
81. Massive? Why can't you be honest? B people - me may not have voted paper. Wish Sawant SD.
Wed May 25, 2016, 01:00 PM
May 2016

And she'll get our politicians SD votes. Wish Sawant had SD status. So they can overturn our choices.

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
101. Yes, but in this case it's true.
Wed May 25, 2016, 01:25 PM
May 2016

"We win when voter turnout is high."

We have two states now where we have seen both low and high turnout among the same group of voters. Bernie won when turnout was low, lost when it was high.

LoverOfLiberty

(1,438 posts)
108. Did he say it before or after the fact?
Wed May 25, 2016, 01:40 PM
May 2016

Because if he said it before it was disproven, it was a mistake, not a lie.
I'm not a Sanders supporter, just pointing out that we toss the word lie around a lot in here.

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