HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Retired » Retired Forums » 2016 Postmortem (Forum) » Conflict Resolutions

Sun May 1, 2016, 03:41 PM

Conflict Resolutions

“All people whose minds are healthy can desire peace, and there is an ability within all people, especially the young, to grasp and hold strongly to the principles of righteousness. Those principles of righteousness demand that all thoughts of prejudice, privilege, or superiority be swept away, and that recognition be given to the reality that the creation is intended for the benefit of all equally. Even the birds and animals, the trees and the insects, as well as the people. The world does not belong to the humans -- it is the rightful property of the Great Creator.”
-- The Peacemaker; circa 400 ad


The historical figure known as the Peacemaker lived in the northeast of what today is the United States of America. He was born at a time when society was in disarray: the empires of the Ohio River Valley were faltering, thus creating a failing economy among those people who had enjoyed the rural-urban system of trade. These tensions impacted relationships between communities, clans, and family life. Conflicts led to blood feuds, and people lived in fear of violence.

At this time, the people who lived in the northeast were dealing with changes in technology, as well as in the production of foods. Thus, there were also tensions between the sexes, and a growing shift in the balance of power between males and females. One can find parallels between that time and today.

The Peacemaker was a reformation prophet. The message that he delivered was based upon what are known as the Original Instructions. They are known in other cultures as the Ten Commandments. An earlier prophet -- a young man known as Sapling -- had taught them sometime around 1800 bc, again at a time of cultural change. What makes the Peacemaker unique is that he envisioned a form of democratic government that continues to work today.

Now, the majority of those college students who are actively supporting Senator Bernie Sanders’s run for president have never heard of the Peacemaker. Public schools do not teach about him -- though they should. However, we hear these wonderful young adults speaking about the very things that the Peacemaker said they would be. For great principles are timeless, and no individual ever “owns” them.

That brings us to one of the major differences between the campaigns of Bernie and Hillary. As elders who support Bernie Sanders, we urge today’s youth to rage against the machine, while our opposition tells them they must become cogs. Guess who they respect and listen to?

The other closely-related difference between the two groups was summed up beautifully by Albert Camus: “This is what separated us from you: we made demands. You were satisfied to serve the power of your nation, and we dreamed of giving ours her truth.”

That is what this movement is about: the truth of the American experience. And all of the best episodes in this nation’s history are rooted in democracy -- just as the worst involve the denial of basic human rights advanced by democracy. Democracy demands constant struggle. And that is part of the on-going American experience.

Keep on fighting the Good Fight!
H2O Man

52 replies, 2337 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 52 replies Author Time Post
Reply Conflict Resolutions (Original post)
H2O Man May 2016 OP
Sky Masterson May 2016 #1
H2O Man May 2016 #10
bkkyosemite May 2016 #2
pmorlan1 May 2016 #5
H2O Man May 2016 #14
kgnu_fan May 2016 #32
H2O Man May 2016 #36
kgnu_fan May 2016 #46
H2O Man May 2016 #11
CaliforniaPeggy May 2016 #3
H2O Man May 2016 #18
KPN May 2016 #4
H2O Man May 2016 #19
longship May 2016 #6
H2O Man May 2016 #20
Scuba May 2016 #7
H2O Man May 2016 #21
Uncle Joe May 2016 #8
H2O Man May 2016 #22
tk2kewl May 2016 #23
Agony May 2016 #9
H2O Man May 2016 #24
panader0 May 2016 #12
H2O Man May 2016 #25
hootinholler May 2016 #13
H2O Man May 2016 #26
kgnu_fan May 2016 #15
H2O Man May 2016 #27
silvershadow May 2016 #16
H2O Man May 2016 #28
silvershadow May 2016 #49
raouldukelives May 2016 #17
H2O Man May 2016 #30
mmonk May 2016 #29
H2O Man May 2016 #34
mmonk May 2016 #42
H2O Man May 2016 #44
mmonk May 2016 #45
H2O Man May 2016 #50
mmonk May 2016 #51
mmonk May 2016 #43
islandmkl May 2016 #31
H2O Man May 2016 #35
Autumn May 2016 #33
H2O Man May 2016 #37
Dem2 May 2016 #38
H2O Man May 2016 #39
lagomorph777 May 2016 #40
H2O Man May 2016 #41
lagomorph777 May 2016 #48
VulgarPoet May 2016 #47
immoderate May 2016 #52

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 03:50 PM

1. I never regret opening one of your threads.

Well written.
Thank you!
K&R
No Cogs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sky Masterson (Reply #1)

Sun May 1, 2016, 07:05 PM

10. Thank you!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 03:50 PM

2. I have seen many comments here that Hillary and Bernie are a high percentage together on

the issues. Blinders.............they are not that is why there is a YUUUUGGEEEE amount of supporters for Bernie and they are adamant they want what is right for the average American and have for a long time. Bernie is shouting it from the rooftops. I am grateful for Bernie Sanders. The two are like oil and water, apples and oranges...black and white, pink and green.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bkkyosemite (Reply #2)

Sun May 1, 2016, 03:59 PM

5. Two Vastly Different World Views

Bernie & Hillary have two vastly different world views and that makes all the difference in this contest. Those who are swayed by conventional wisdom do not recognize this clear difference and that's why they wrongly believe that Bernie supporters will line up behind Ms Clinton should she get the nomination.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pmorlan1 (Reply #5)

Sun May 1, 2016, 09:21 PM

14. Right.

In my experience, the Bernie supporters recognize that there are a range of people who support Hillary. But the Hillary supporters view us as all the same. Lots of the most talented grass roots activists working in support of Bernie aren't registered in the Democratic Party. I'm fully confident they will continue to be active in the Good Fight. I think it is highly unrealistic to expect them to fall in behind the Clinton campaign. They are tired of being taken for granted, and (mis-)treated like there is no where else for them to go.

I'm a registered Democrat, who has voted for the party's candidate in every presidential election. More, I have always been able to campaign for our candidate, with good results However, the Clinton campaign has certainly made it unlikely that, if she gets the nomination, people like me could do what we usually do.

The progressive wing of the Democratic Party works well with the Democratic Left. For that matter, a good number of liberals work well with these two groups. But as we "move to the right" within the Democratic Party, it seems that the cocktail party liberals, the moderates, and the conservative Democrats are uncomfortable with breaking bread with the Democratic Left. And that's a shame.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #14)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:43 AM

32. I think "class awareness" is the key. People are not taught about economical class structure.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kgnu_fan (Reply #32)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:52 AM

36. Right.

I definitely agree.

The 1% has been engaged in a ruthless "class warfare" against the 99% for decades -- most obviously since the Reagan years. Yet many of us are uncomfortable when anyone on our side talks about current events in that context. That makes no more sense than entering the ring to fight Mike Tyson, with both of your hands tied behind your back.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #36)

Mon May 2, 2016, 12:52 PM

46. Indeed. I wonder how to untie those rational disadvantages and become free thinkers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bkkyosemite (Reply #2)

Sun May 1, 2016, 07:10 PM

11. Right.

I think there are two sub-groups within those who same Bernie and Hillary are much the same. Many honestly believe that, and are absolutely sincere in saying it. The others are liars, attempting to manipulate. Let's skip that second group for now. ....

People view things from their own level of understanding .....and that isn't about "good vs bad" -- except per the liars -- and it's not limited to level of education and experience in politics. As we continue the Sanders revolution, more and more of these good people will see the light. It is but a matter of time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 03:54 PM

3. Thank you for your beautiful post, my dear H20 Man...

The truth will never die...

Just as love doesn't.

We will prevail.

K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CaliforniaPeggy (Reply #3)

Mon May 2, 2016, 07:48 AM

18. Thank you.

And yes, our team wins .....I've already seen the end of this movie.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 03:59 PM

4. Great post.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KPN (Reply #4)

Mon May 2, 2016, 07:49 AM

19. Thanks!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 04:09 PM

6. Nice prose!

R&



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to longship (Reply #6)

Mon May 2, 2016, 07:49 AM

20. Thank you!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 04:28 PM

7. "As elders who support Bernie Sanders, we urge today’s youth to rage against the machine ..."

 

As elders who support Bernie Sanders, we urge today’s youth to rage against the machine, while our opposition tells them they must become cogs. Guess who they respect and listen to?







Perfectly stated, H2O Man. Thank you.






.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Scuba (Reply #7)

Mon May 2, 2016, 07:51 AM

21. Thanks, Scuba!

I enjoyed writing that bit you quoted.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 04:29 PM

8. Do you even know how to make a bad OP?




Thanks for the thread, H2O Man.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #8)

Mon May 2, 2016, 07:52 AM

22. Yes, I sure do!

But this OP/thread came out pretty good!

Thanks, Friend.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #22)

Mon May 2, 2016, 07:58 AM

23. It sure did!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 04:35 PM

9. Hope for truth and justice of all kinds - lives on -

I can not countenance the status quo of the elite plutocracy.

Cheers!
Agony

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Agony (Reply #9)

Mon May 2, 2016, 07:59 AM

24. Thanks, Agony!

The "local" struggle that I will be focusing my efforts on today, started in the 1920s. It's an environmental crisis. I've been active in it since 1980; in those 36 years, we've won some rounds, and lost a few rounds. According to the "official" records documenting the struggle, it is over. Yet, I disagree with these corporate-produced "official" records. I base my stance upon the soil, air, and water involved, and those people still battling the cancers that impact their daily lives.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 07:56 PM

12. Recommended.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to panader0 (Reply #12)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:00 AM

25. Thanks, Buddy!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 08:19 PM

13. YEs, he should be taught in our schools

Along with a lot of other things and individuals among original peoples.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hootinholler (Reply #13)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:13 AM

26. Definitely.

It seems rather odd to ignore 12,000+ years of the American experience. More, there are "current events" in Indian Territory that demand attention -- and that impact the non-Indian peoples as well.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun May 1, 2016, 09:37 PM

15. Thank you for nurturing our courage. We will do our best.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kgnu_fan (Reply #15)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:16 AM

27. Thanks, kgnu_fan!

I think that the California primary will be pretty darned interesting and important. I also am looking for a meaningful event next week, around May 10.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon May 2, 2016, 05:49 AM

16. K&R

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to silvershadow (Reply #16)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:16 AM

28. Thanks!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #28)

Mon May 2, 2016, 01:22 PM

49. yw! nt

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon May 2, 2016, 07:29 AM

17. People always tell me to live in the real world.

As if the real world is nothing but steel, cement, asphalt and shiny towers. Maybe for them it is, for myself, It isn't.

The real world is out there in between all of those places, in the rivers and streams, in the plains and mountains, in the deserts and the forests. Ah, but tell them not to worry, thanks to them, it doesn't have long left.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to raouldukelives (Reply #17)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:37 AM

30. Right! Same here!

Even last week, I had a few people approach me -- politely and sincerely -- to "encourage" me to accept their reality. I try to be patient while responding that this is not an option for me. I understand that they believe I inhabit the back-alleys and shadows of their world ....

Yesterday, my task was to encourage an old friend/ associate to come out of "retirement," and return to his proper role as an artist-activist in the Good Fight. I drove to his house unannounced -- he said it was the first time I'd been there in twenty years (I insisted it hadn't been a day longer than 19.5 years). He lives at the base of a mountain that has been recognized as Sacred Ground for over a thousand years. I showed him two large spear-heads that I had found on a day last spring, while I meditated at a rock ledge & cave that I've spent time at since my teens, up on the mountain behind his house. (They date to 1,200 bc +/- 200.)

We talked about "the good old days," doing things such as joining David Peel & the Lower East Side on stage at a Woodstock reunion. At least that's what it appeared to others that we were doing! I believe that he laughed the hardest when I told him about a regional corporation's attempt to buy my silence. Gracious.

My friend and I spent most of the afternoon at an isolated spot, where two rivers once intersected -- before "modern" society re-routed one of them, in order to put in a stretch of highway. It is a site where important events took place during the Revolutionary War. The man-made change in the river's course has, of course, resulted in serious and often dangerous flooding in the spring times.But I still prefer being there, to within that concrete jungle.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:16 AM

29. Recommended.

Nice work drawing in the example of the Peacemaker.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mmonk (Reply #29)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:46 AM

34. Thanks, mmonk!

A while back, one of our Good Friends here had suggested that I should begin introducing some of the Peacemaker's concepts, here on DU. And so I took some time to consider how I might do that, including here on DU, and beyond. Hence, I've started the new blog, as well, that has areas of overlap with what I post here.

It's curious -- and I know that you are having the same general experience -- at the same time our associates who support Hillary are lobbying for us to fold our tents and join them now, our friends in the Sanders revolution are organizing for the upcoming convention. It's going to be an interesting summer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #34)

Mon May 2, 2016, 11:43 AM

42. It was certainly a good idea to incorporate the Peacemaker.

It definitely will be an interesting summer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mmonk (Reply #42)

Mon May 2, 2016, 11:50 AM

44. Hey, are you planning

on going to the convention this summer?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #44)

Mon May 2, 2016, 12:21 PM

45. I haven't given it as much thought since I'm not a delegate this year.

Are you?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mmonk (Reply #45)

Mon May 2, 2016, 01:56 PM

50. I now pronounce you

an official delegate for humanity.

Yeah, I think so. A lot of old friends are planning to.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #50)

Mon May 2, 2016, 01:59 PM

51. Well let me know. It's about a 6 or 6 1/2 hr drive from my house.

Be glad to meet up with you and others.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #34)

Mon May 2, 2016, 11:48 AM

43. There are always lessons where others have walked.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:43 AM

31. another fine post as always, H20 Man...some Steinbeck to add:

“Some of the owner men were kind because they hated what they had to do, and some of them were angry because they hated to be cruel, and some of them were cold because they had long ago found that one could not be an owner unless one were cold. And all of them were caught in something larger than themselves. Some of them hated the mathematics that drove them, and some were afraid, and some worshiped the mathematics because it provided a refuge from thought and from feeling. If a bank or a finance company owned the land, the owner man said, The Bank - or the Company - needs - wants - insists - must have - as though the Bank or the Company were a monster, with thought and feeling, which had ensnared them. These last would take no responsibility for the banks or the companies because they were men and slaves, while the banks were machines and masters all at the same time. Some of the owner men were a little proud to be slaves to such cold and powerful masters. The owner men sat in the cars and explained. You know the land is poor. You've scrabbled at it long enough, God knows.”

― John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to islandmkl (Reply #31)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:48 AM

35. Beautiful!

That is so powerful! Thank you so much!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:44 AM

33. Some morning you get out of bed and wisdom is right there in your face.

What a wonderful way to start the day.

Albert Camus: “This is what separated us from you: we made demands. You were satisfied to serve the power of your nation, and we dreamed of giving ours her truth.”

Thank you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Autumn (Reply #33)

Mon May 2, 2016, 08:57 AM

37. Thanks, Autumn!

I love that Camus quote. I realize that it might read harsh to those who support Hillary, but it needs to be said. While I really like most people who support Clinton, I think it is important that they understand why we take the position we have, and which we intend to hold firm on.

There are also, of course, a minority of Clinton supporters who I am not fond of. Here again, that quote communicates our differences in values.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon May 2, 2016, 09:51 AM

38. The more I've urged my kids to 'rage against the machine' ...

...the more they seem to have become critical thinkers who are now questioning everything they 'hear'. They will argue the points where they see Hillary as disingenuous and/or wrong, but they are also now questioning the veracity of their fellow Bernie supporters who often seem to do so without sufficient questioning of where the 'revolution' is headed. After a 3 hour conversation with my youngest this past weekend, I am quite impressed at their ability to 'cut through the bullshit'. They imagine a better future but with a dose of 'but it's hard work' - they realize that they must focus their energy in a way that won't leave them too jaded since the worst thing a person can do is give up due to frustration. They are realizing that the struggle is indeed ongoing...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dem2 (Reply #38)

Mon May 2, 2016, 11:07 AM

39. Very good!

We need people to question each and every claim that even the best politicians make. One need not waste time evaluating the claims of the Ted Cruz-types, of course .....but rather, the claims of those we consider voting for. Indeed, when citizens neglect this duty, and fail to engage in that basic of a responsibility, they are easily led astray.

Not everyone has the same ability to understand and navigate the world of politics. I'm glad to hear that your children are strong in that area.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon May 2, 2016, 11:15 AM

40. It parallels the story of the Iroquois Confederacy

The Iroquois Confederacy, or Five Nations, was an alliance of five, later six, American Indian tribes—the Cayuga, Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Seneca, and Tuscarora—located in modern-day New York state.

I learned about it in school, growing up in the region.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #40)

Mon May 2, 2016, 11:29 AM

41. Right.

The Peacemaker's political system brought forth the Haudenosaunee, or Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Reply #41)

Mon May 2, 2016, 01:15 PM

48. OK thanks - I was thinking the regions were different (OH vs NY) but probably included both.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon May 2, 2016, 12:59 PM

47. ...

There is no peace to be made in the face of a snake.
Hooded back, beaded eye, looking for all they could take.
Is my head in the clouds, or do I see too clear?
I guess we'll have to see by the end of the year.

The fight carries on, and our shadows wait for our feet in the desert.

K/R.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Mon May 2, 2016, 02:24 PM

52. Kickin'

 



--imm

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread