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H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
Sun May 1, 2016, 04:41 PM May 2016

Conflict Resolutions

“All people whose minds are healthy can desire peace, and there is an ability within all people, especially the young, to grasp and hold strongly to the principles of righteousness. Those principles of righteousness demand that all thoughts of prejudice, privilege, or superiority be swept away, and that recognition be given to the reality that the creation is intended for the benefit of all equally. Even the birds and animals, the trees and the insects, as well as the people. The world does not belong to the humans -- it is the rightful property of the Great Creator.”
-- The Peacemaker; circa 400 ad


The historical figure known as the Peacemaker lived in the northeast of what today is the United States of America. He was born at a time when society was in disarray: the empires of the Ohio River Valley were faltering, thus creating a failing economy among those people who had enjoyed the rural-urban system of trade. These tensions impacted relationships between communities, clans, and family life. Conflicts led to blood feuds, and people lived in fear of violence.

At this time, the people who lived in the northeast were dealing with changes in technology, as well as in the production of foods. Thus, there were also tensions between the sexes, and a growing shift in the balance of power between males and females. One can find parallels between that time and today.

The Peacemaker was a reformation prophet. The message that he delivered was based upon what are known as the Original Instructions. They are known in other cultures as the Ten Commandments. An earlier prophet -- a young man known as Sapling -- had taught them sometime around 1800 bc, again at a time of cultural change. What makes the Peacemaker unique is that he envisioned a form of democratic government that continues to work today.

Now, the majority of those college students who are actively supporting Senator Bernie Sanders’s run for president have never heard of the Peacemaker. Public schools do not teach about him -- though they should. However, we hear these wonderful young adults speaking about the very things that the Peacemaker said they would be. For great principles are timeless, and no individual ever “owns” them.

That brings us to one of the major differences between the campaigns of Bernie and Hillary. As elders who support Bernie Sanders, we urge today’s youth to rage against the machine, while our opposition tells them they must become cogs. Guess who they respect and listen to?

The other closely-related difference between the two groups was summed up beautifully by Albert Camus: “This is what separated us from you: we made demands. You were satisfied to serve the power of your nation, and we dreamed of giving ours her truth.”

That is what this movement is about: the truth of the American experience. And all of the best episodes in this nation’s history are rooted in democracy -- just as the worst involve the denial of basic human rights advanced by democracy. Democracy demands constant struggle. And that is part of the on-going American experience.

Keep on fighting the Good Fight!
H2O Man

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Conflict Resolutions (Original Post) H2O Man May 2016 OP
I never regret opening one of your threads. Sky Masterson May 2016 #1
Thank you! H2O Man May 2016 #10
I have seen many comments here that Hillary and Bernie are a high percentage together on bkkyosemite May 2016 #2
Two Vastly Different World Views pmorlan1 May 2016 #5
Right. H2O Man May 2016 #14
I think "class awareness" is the key. People are not taught about economical class structure. kgnu_fan May 2016 #32
Right. H2O Man May 2016 #36
Indeed. I wonder how to untie those rational disadvantages and become free thinkers. kgnu_fan May 2016 #46
Right. H2O Man May 2016 #11
Thank you for your beautiful post, my dear H20 Man... CaliforniaPeggy May 2016 #3
Thank you. H2O Man May 2016 #18
Great post. KPN May 2016 #4
Thanks! H2O Man May 2016 #19
Nice prose! longship May 2016 #6
Thank you! H2O Man May 2016 #20
"As elders who support Bernie Sanders, we urge today’s youth to rage against the machine ..." Scuba May 2016 #7
Thanks, Scuba! H2O Man May 2016 #21
Do you even know how to make a bad OP? Uncle Joe May 2016 #8
Yes, I sure do! H2O Man May 2016 #22
It sure did! tk2kewl May 2016 #23
Hope for truth and justice of all kinds - lives on - Agony May 2016 #9
Thanks, Agony! H2O Man May 2016 #24
Recommended. panader0 May 2016 #12
Thanks, Buddy! H2O Man May 2016 #25
YEs, he should be taught in our schools hootinholler May 2016 #13
Definitely. H2O Man May 2016 #26
Thank you for nurturing our courage. We will do our best. kgnu_fan May 2016 #15
Thanks, kgnu_fan! H2O Man May 2016 #27
K&R silvershadow May 2016 #16
Thanks! H2O Man May 2016 #28
yw! nt silvershadow May 2016 #49
People always tell me to live in the real world. raouldukelives May 2016 #17
Right! Same here! H2O Man May 2016 #30
Recommended. mmonk May 2016 #29
Thanks, mmonk! H2O Man May 2016 #34
It was certainly a good idea to incorporate the Peacemaker. mmonk May 2016 #42
Hey, are you planning H2O Man May 2016 #44
I haven't given it as much thought since I'm not a delegate this year. mmonk May 2016 #45
I now pronounce you H2O Man May 2016 #50
Well let me know. It's about a 6 or 6 1/2 hr drive from my house. mmonk May 2016 #51
There are always lessons where others have walked. mmonk May 2016 #43
another fine post as always, H20 Man...some Steinbeck to add: islandmkl May 2016 #31
Beautiful! H2O Man May 2016 #35
Some morning you get out of bed and wisdom is right there in your face. Autumn May 2016 #33
Thanks, Autumn! H2O Man May 2016 #37
The more I've urged my kids to 'rage against the machine' ... Dem2 May 2016 #38
Very good! H2O Man May 2016 #39
It parallels the story of the Iroquois Confederacy lagomorph777 May 2016 #40
Right. H2O Man May 2016 #41
OK thanks - I was thinking the regions were different (OH vs NY) but probably included both. lagomorph777 May 2016 #48
... VulgarPoet May 2016 #47
Kickin' immoderate May 2016 #52

bkkyosemite

(5,792 posts)
2. I have seen many comments here that Hillary and Bernie are a high percentage together on
Sun May 1, 2016, 04:50 PM
May 2016

the issues. Blinders.............they are not that is why there is a YUUUUGGEEEE amount of supporters for Bernie and they are adamant they want what is right for the average American and have for a long time. Bernie is shouting it from the rooftops. I am grateful for Bernie Sanders. The two are like oil and water, apples and oranges...black and white, pink and green.

pmorlan1

(2,096 posts)
5. Two Vastly Different World Views
Sun May 1, 2016, 04:59 PM
May 2016

Bernie & Hillary have two vastly different world views and that makes all the difference in this contest. Those who are swayed by conventional wisdom do not recognize this clear difference and that's why they wrongly believe that Bernie supporters will line up behind Ms Clinton should she get the nomination.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
14. Right.
Sun May 1, 2016, 10:21 PM
May 2016

In my experience, the Bernie supporters recognize that there are a range of people who support Hillary. But the Hillary supporters view us as all the same. Lots of the most talented grass roots activists working in support of Bernie aren't registered in the Democratic Party. I'm fully confident they will continue to be active in the Good Fight. I think it is highly unrealistic to expect them to fall in behind the Clinton campaign. They are tired of being taken for granted, and (mis-)treated like there is no where else for them to go.

I'm a registered Democrat, who has voted for the party's candidate in every presidential election. More, I have always been able to campaign for our candidate, with good results However, the Clinton campaign has certainly made it unlikely that, if she gets the nomination, people like me could do what we usually do.

The progressive wing of the Democratic Party works well with the Democratic Left. For that matter, a good number of liberals work well with these two groups. But as we "move to the right" within the Democratic Party, it seems that the cocktail party liberals, the moderates, and the conservative Democrats are uncomfortable with breaking bread with the Democratic Left. And that's a shame.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
36. Right.
Mon May 2, 2016, 09:52 AM
May 2016

I definitely agree.

The 1% has been engaged in a ruthless "class warfare" against the 99% for decades -- most obviously since the Reagan years. Yet many of us are uncomfortable when anyone on our side talks about current events in that context. That makes no more sense than entering the ring to fight Mike Tyson, with both of your hands tied behind your back.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
11. Right.
Sun May 1, 2016, 08:10 PM
May 2016

I think there are two sub-groups within those who same Bernie and Hillary are much the same. Many honestly believe that, and are absolutely sincere in saying it. The others are liars, attempting to manipulate. Let's skip that second group for now. ....

People view things from their own level of understanding .....and that isn't about "good vs bad" -- except per the liars -- and it's not limited to level of education and experience in politics. As we continue the Sanders revolution, more and more of these good people will see the light. It is but a matter of time.

CaliforniaPeggy

(150,259 posts)
3. Thank you for your beautiful post, my dear H20 Man...
Sun May 1, 2016, 04:54 PM
May 2016

The truth will never die...

Just as love doesn't.

We will prevail.

K&R

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
7. "As elders who support Bernie Sanders, we urge today’s youth to rage against the machine ..."
Sun May 1, 2016, 05:28 PM
May 2016
As elders who support Bernie Sanders, we urge today’s youth to rage against the machine, while our opposition tells them they must become cogs. Guess who they respect and listen to?







Perfectly stated, H2O Man. Thank you.






.

Agony

(2,605 posts)
9. Hope for truth and justice of all kinds - lives on -
Sun May 1, 2016, 05:35 PM
May 2016

I can not countenance the status quo of the elite plutocracy.

Cheers!
Agony

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
24. Thanks, Agony!
Mon May 2, 2016, 08:59 AM
May 2016

The "local" struggle that I will be focusing my efforts on today, started in the 1920s. It's an environmental crisis. I've been active in it since 1980; in those 36 years, we've won some rounds, and lost a few rounds. According to the "official" records documenting the struggle, it is over. Yet, I disagree with these corporate-produced "official" records. I base my stance upon the soil, air, and water involved, and those people still battling the cancers that impact their daily lives.

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
13. YEs, he should be taught in our schools
Sun May 1, 2016, 09:19 PM
May 2016

Along with a lot of other things and individuals among original peoples.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
26. Definitely.
Mon May 2, 2016, 09:13 AM
May 2016

It seems rather odd to ignore 12,000+ years of the American experience. More, there are "current events" in Indian Territory that demand attention -- and that impact the non-Indian peoples as well.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
27. Thanks, kgnu_fan!
Mon May 2, 2016, 09:16 AM
May 2016

I think that the California primary will be pretty darned interesting and important. I also am looking for a meaningful event next week, around May 10.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
17. People always tell me to live in the real world.
Mon May 2, 2016, 08:29 AM
May 2016

As if the real world is nothing but steel, cement, asphalt and shiny towers. Maybe for them it is, for myself, It isn't.

The real world is out there in between all of those places, in the rivers and streams, in the plains and mountains, in the deserts and the forests. Ah, but tell them not to worry, thanks to them, it doesn't have long left.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
30. Right! Same here!
Mon May 2, 2016, 09:37 AM
May 2016

Even last week, I had a few people approach me -- politely and sincerely -- to "encourage" me to accept their reality. I try to be patient while responding that this is not an option for me. I understand that they believe I inhabit the back-alleys and shadows of their world ....

Yesterday, my task was to encourage an old friend/ associate to come out of "retirement," and return to his proper role as an artist-activist in the Good Fight. I drove to his house unannounced -- he said it was the first time I'd been there in twenty years (I insisted it hadn't been a day longer than 19.5 years). He lives at the base of a mountain that has been recognized as Sacred Ground for over a thousand years. I showed him two large spear-heads that I had found on a day last spring, while I meditated at a rock ledge & cave that I've spent time at since my teens, up on the mountain behind his house. (They date to 1,200 bc +/- 200.)

We talked about "the good old days," doing things such as joining David Peel & the Lower East Side on stage at a Woodstock reunion. At least that's what it appeared to others that we were doing! I believe that he laughed the hardest when I told him about a regional corporation's attempt to buy my silence. Gracious.

My friend and I spent most of the afternoon at an isolated spot, where two rivers once intersected -- before "modern" society re-routed one of them, in order to put in a stretch of highway. It is a site where important events took place during the Revolutionary War. The man-made change in the river's course has, of course, resulted in serious and often dangerous flooding in the spring times.But I still prefer being there, to within that concrete jungle.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
34. Thanks, mmonk!
Mon May 2, 2016, 09:46 AM
May 2016

A while back, one of our Good Friends here had suggested that I should begin introducing some of the Peacemaker's concepts, here on DU. And so I took some time to consider how I might do that, including here on DU, and beyond. Hence, I've started the new blog, as well, that has areas of overlap with what I post here.

It's curious -- and I know that you are having the same general experience -- at the same time our associates who support Hillary are lobbying for us to fold our tents and join them now, our friends in the Sanders revolution are organizing for the upcoming convention. It's going to be an interesting summer.

mmonk

(52,589 posts)
42. It was certainly a good idea to incorporate the Peacemaker.
Mon May 2, 2016, 12:43 PM
May 2016

It definitely will be an interesting summer.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
50. I now pronounce you
Mon May 2, 2016, 02:56 PM
May 2016

an official delegate for humanity.

Yeah, I think so. A lot of old friends are planning to.

mmonk

(52,589 posts)
51. Well let me know. It's about a 6 or 6 1/2 hr drive from my house.
Mon May 2, 2016, 02:59 PM
May 2016

Be glad to meet up with you and others.

islandmkl

(5,275 posts)
31. another fine post as always, H20 Man...some Steinbeck to add:
Mon May 2, 2016, 09:43 AM
May 2016
“Some of the owner men were kind because they hated what they had to do, and some of them were angry because they hated to be cruel, and some of them were cold because they had long ago found that one could not be an owner unless one were cold. And all of them were caught in something larger than themselves. Some of them hated the mathematics that drove them, and some were afraid, and some worshiped the mathematics because it provided a refuge from thought and from feeling. If a bank or a finance company owned the land, the owner man said, The Bank - or the Company - needs - wants - insists - must have - as though the Bank or the Company were a monster, with thought and feeling, which had ensnared them. These last would take no responsibility for the banks or the companies because they were men and slaves, while the banks were machines and masters all at the same time. Some of the owner men were a little proud to be slaves to such cold and powerful masters. The owner men sat in the cars and explained. You know the land is poor. You've scrabbled at it long enough, God knows.”

― John Steinbeck, The Grapes of Wrath

Autumn

(45,145 posts)
33. Some morning you get out of bed and wisdom is right there in your face.
Mon May 2, 2016, 09:44 AM
May 2016

What a wonderful way to start the day.

Albert Camus: “This is what separated us from you: we made demands. You were satisfied to serve the power of your nation, and we dreamed of giving ours her truth.”

Thank you.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
37. Thanks, Autumn!
Mon May 2, 2016, 09:57 AM
May 2016

I love that Camus quote. I realize that it might read harsh to those who support Hillary, but it needs to be said. While I really like most people who support Clinton, I think it is important that they understand why we take the position we have, and which we intend to hold firm on.

There are also, of course, a minority of Clinton supporters who I am not fond of. Here again, that quote communicates our differences in values.

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
38. The more I've urged my kids to 'rage against the machine' ...
Mon May 2, 2016, 10:51 AM
May 2016

...the more they seem to have become critical thinkers who are now questioning everything they 'hear'. They will argue the points where they see Hillary as disingenuous and/or wrong, but they are also now questioning the veracity of their fellow Bernie supporters who often seem to do so without sufficient questioning of where the 'revolution' is headed. After a 3 hour conversation with my youngest this past weekend, I am quite impressed at their ability to 'cut through the bullshit'. They imagine a better future but with a dose of 'but it's hard work' - they realize that they must focus their energy in a way that won't leave them too jaded since the worst thing a person can do is give up due to frustration. They are realizing that the struggle is indeed ongoing...

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
39. Very good!
Mon May 2, 2016, 12:07 PM
May 2016

We need people to question each and every claim that even the best politicians make. One need not waste time evaluating the claims of the Ted Cruz-types, of course .....but rather, the claims of those we consider voting for. Indeed, when citizens neglect this duty, and fail to engage in that basic of a responsibility, they are easily led astray.

Not everyone has the same ability to understand and navigate the world of politics. I'm glad to hear that your children are strong in that area.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
40. It parallels the story of the Iroquois Confederacy
Mon May 2, 2016, 12:15 PM
May 2016

The Iroquois Confederacy, or Five Nations, was an alliance of five, later six, American Indian tribes—the Cayuga, Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Seneca, and Tuscarora—located in modern-day New York state.

I learned about it in school, growing up in the region.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
41. Right.
Mon May 2, 2016, 12:29 PM
May 2016

The Peacemaker's political system brought forth the Haudenosaunee, or Six Nations Iroquois Confederacy.

VulgarPoet

(2,872 posts)
47. ...
Mon May 2, 2016, 01:59 PM
May 2016

There is no peace to be made in the face of a snake.
Hooded back, beaded eye, looking for all they could take.
Is my head in the clouds, or do I see too clear?
I guess we'll have to see by the end of the year.

The fight carries on, and our shadows wait for our feet in the desert.

K/R.

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