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H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:45 PM Apr 2016

Principles

“Our principles do not change. Justice is always justice; freedom is always freedom. Great principles are constant. And so what they call the ‘old way’ is nothing more than principles. And they say you can’t go back to the old ways -- which means you can’t go back to justice, you can’t go back to equality, you can’t go back to what is right and what is wrong. Principles are how you exist above and beyond the emotions that you feel, to control and have discipline of one’s self. Self-discipline, not people making you behave, but the discipline where you don’t need police. That is how our people lived. There were no police. There were no jails. There were basic laws -- you don’t lie and steal. Tell the truth. Be strong. Look out for your brother. Look out for the ones just underneath you. Look out for the elders. Use your strength on behalf of the nation, on behalf of the people. Conduct yourself in a proper manner.”
-- Oren Lyons; Faith Keeper; Onondaga Nation


In a healthy society, the children are recognized as channeling the potential for human goodness, and the youth for demanding social justice. My generation -- which experienced childhood in the 1950s and ‘60s -- came of age in an era that included the struggle for civil rights; the ant-war effort; the women’s liberation movement; and the environmental movement. Also, not coincidentally, some of the greatest musicians and artists ever.

Many of us still hold the same great principles that we struggled for then. Thus, we were pleased when Senator Bernie Sanders entered the Democratic Party’s presidential primary. We have been impressed by the strength of the Sanders Revolution. There has been a re-awakening among many of old friends and associates from our generation. They are coming out of their “retirement” from social-political activism, and re-joining those of us who have never stopped the Good Fight.

We are encouraged by today’s youth, who have been an essential force in Bernie’s campaign. Indeed, history will record that in the 2016 presidential campaign, that Sanders was the only candidate who had significant support from college students. For they are demanding social justice, and based upon each of the numerous candidates who entered the race, only Bernie Sanders stands for the principles they respect and value.

As we enter the month of May, the Hillary Clinton campaign and its supporters will make increasingly more demands that Sanders suspend his campaign, and that his supports get in line behind their candidate. And, in the political sense, that is what usually happens after a tough primary. But this isn’t a business-as-usual primary contest -- nor is it over.

Several Clinton advocates have “offered” what they mistake for a middle ground: perhaps Bernie could simply stop speaking about the vast differences in principles between himself and Hillary. That, of course, is the exact reason why it is unlikely that those who support Bernie Sanders would have great difficulty in doing.

Politics, the Clinton campaign reminds us, is the art of compromise. That is true, yet should never be used as justifying a person’s compromising their own principles. There are definitely a lot of good people who sincerely support Hillary Clinton; they believe that she is the most qualified and capable candidate in 2016. But there are many others -- including in high positions within the campaign -- who have no sense of shame when they compromise the principles they once held. They are clearly insulted by the fact that the Sanders Revolution is based upon our highest principles, and that we are not willing to compromise our selves’ -- or our children and grandchildren’s future.

It is all too clear that the Clinton campaign -- including the candidate -- will have to address this issue at some point in an honest, even principled manner. Unfortunately, thus far, they have been invested in the worn and weak “you’re using right-wing talking points” bit. Pathetic. We aren’t concerned with the rabid right’s principles; hopefully, we all agree that they are corrupt. Still, we are very concerned about the business-as-usual lack of principles we see from the Clinton campaign.

“Business-as-usual” isn’t in play here. It’s not in the Sanders Revolution’s play book. It’s not an option. We will continue to move forward, right on into the Democratic National Convention. And beyond. Come election day, we will vote our consciences. Then we will continue the revolutionary movement, as the principled wing of the Democratic Party. We will continue to coordinate and cooperate with the progressive Democratic Left -- those that in business-as-usual circumstances could be taken for granted by the Democratic Party elites.

These elites have believed that, like progressive members of the Democratic Party, the Democratic Left had nowhere else to go. Surprise, surprise.

Peace,
H2O Man

44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Principles (Original Post) H2O Man Apr 2016 OP
A most excellent essay. Zorra Apr 2016 #1
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2016 #3
The honor is all mine, H2O Man. Zorra May 2016 #41
Right! H2O Man May 2016 #44
This is what drives our passion. Integrity, compassion, justice, generosity, wisdom snowy owl Apr 2016 #19
Exactly! H2O Man May 2016 #40
Sometimes, people with principles can no longer yield. mmonk Apr 2016 #2
Right. H2O Man Apr 2016 #4
I love what Oren's quote speaks to me. Self-policing. I believe strongly in this concept Gregorian Apr 2016 #5
Oren is an H2O Man Apr 2016 #9
I would very much like to read your blog. Gregorian Apr 2016 #13
Interesting. H2O Man Apr 2016 #15
Wonderful reading Kittycat Apr 2016 #22
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2016 #25
Thank you for this. Another great essay. PotatoChip Apr 2016 #6
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2016 #10
Perfect Rebkeh Apr 2016 #7
Thanks, Rebkeh! H2O Man Apr 2016 #11
Thank you, Mr. H2O Man. longship Apr 2016 #8
Thanks, longship! H2O Man Apr 2016 #12
Thank you for writing it. Your words are like medicine to our soul. nt kgnu_fan Apr 2016 #14
Thank you very much. H2O Man Apr 2016 #16
k & r surrealAmerican Apr 2016 #17
Thank you. H2O Man Apr 2016 #26
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Apr 2016 #18
Thanks, Uncle Joe! H2O Man Apr 2016 #27
That's how it is for me. Wilms Apr 2016 #20
Thank you. H2O Man Apr 2016 #28
Good to see a thoughtful post on here -- and I agree Armstead Apr 2016 #21
Thanks! H2O Man Apr 2016 #29
Thank you, H20Man Blue_In_AK Apr 2016 #23
Thanks! H2O Man Apr 2016 #30
WEll Said, H2O Man! 2banon Apr 2016 #24
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2016 #31
As always, interesting and to the heart.. AuntPatsy Apr 2016 #32
Thanks! H2O Man May 2016 #36
Thank you for posting. +10 840high May 2016 #33
Thank you. H2O Man May 2016 #37
When you arrive at your destination. Weep for the country you leave behind. nt Jitter65 May 2016 #34
Thank you! H2O Man May 2016 #38
Principles? How quaint. Scuba May 2016 #35
Thanks, Scuba. H2O Man May 2016 #39
Kick for perfection. cherokeeprogressive May 2016 #42
Thank you very much! H2O Man May 2016 #43

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
1. A most excellent essay.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 03:00 PM
Apr 2016
“Our principles do not change. Justice is always justice; freedom is always freedom. Great principles are constant. And so what they call the ‘old way’ is nothing more than principles. And they say you can’t go back to the old ways -- which means you can’t go back to justice, you can’t go back to equality, you can’t go back to what is right and what is wrong. Principles are how you exist above and beyond the emotions that you feel, to control and have discipline of one’s self. Self-discipline, not people making you behave, but the discipline where you don’t need police. That is how our people lived. There were no police. There were no jails. There were basic laws -- you don’t lie and steal. Tell the truth. Be strong. Look out for your brother. Look out for the ones just underneath you. Look out for the elders. Use your strength on behalf of the nation, on behalf of the people. Conduct yourself in a proper manner.”
-- Oren Lyons; Faith Keeper; Onondaga Nation


Beautiful, thank you; I hope someday soon our descendants will create for themselves, in large majority, a diverse national tribe that will universally believe in, and practice, the principles described by Faith Keeper Oren.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
3. Thank you!
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 03:13 PM
Apr 2016

It's an honor to be serving on the same team as you .....and I do believe that we are creating that now! I don't know if I'll be around when it becomes more fully instituted, but I'm pleased to have the opportunity to work for it at this time!

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
41. The honor is all mine, H2O Man.
Sun May 1, 2016, 02:55 PM
May 2016

And I, too, think that we are creating it now, and suspect that neither of us will be around (in our present manifestation) when a kinder world becomes more tangible.

It is a great thing that there is so much passionate support for traditional principles today, and seeing passionate support for them so prevalent among young people gives me hope that kindness, compassion, and wisdom will someday replace lust for power, greed, and destruction as a way of life for the people who share this land.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
44. Right!
Sun May 1, 2016, 04:40 PM
May 2016

I think you might enjoy my next OP, which will be part of a series that one of my best DU friends suggested I do .....

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
4. Right.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 03:14 PM
Apr 2016

There are also times when principled people must not yield .....and right now is one of them.

Gregorian

(23,867 posts)
5. I love what Oren's quote speaks to me. Self-policing. I believe strongly in this concept
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 03:17 PM
Apr 2016

I also had to laugh at what must seem condescending to some now- "the principled wing of the Democratic Party". I have come close to that description, but that's perfect.

I am more enthusiastic and optimistic than I have ever been, thanks to the community which Bernie has given birth to. I now belong to a group of younger people. I actually belong to something I have always yearned for. What I've learned is that up until now, we've had the leisure of picking candidate without too much concern about the outcome. That has changed with global warming. This generation isn't waiting. And they aren't asking. They are going to be at the convention en masse. My generation left their generation with a disaster. Their future is in peril, and there is no waiting. They see this as an emergency, not an election. I don't know how many here are aware of the great barrier reef being destroyed recently, but this is a very big deal to these younger folks. This is one more big indication that they may have no future. This election has been peppered with revelations.



I have been thinking about you, and very relieved to see you posting. I hope you are as well as can be.

I've discovered an old outhouse on my property. A huge redwood limb crushed it, and I'm off to go enjoy being around the monster redwood that delivered the blow, and enjoy the birds and wind. I hope your day is full of beauty.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
9. Oren is an
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 03:41 PM
Apr 2016

extraordinary human being. I have great respect for him. So it was very nice to see coverage of his meeting with Bernie Sanders.

I've been doing okay .....better when I sit out at my pond! An interesting note: my high school class will be holding a reunion weekend this summer. While one group will be playing golf at the local "country club," a diverse group is planning a sweat lodge ceremony here. In my opinion, for what it's worth, it'll be the principled classmates at ceremony. (grin) What is interesting is that this includes folks who have never done ceremony before .....mostly christians, but some others, as well ......including a lot of people (mostly female) who are respected professionals in their community. But they are awakening, and looking for something that has been corrupted by our system.

I also started a blog this month .....a fair amount of overlap with the things I post here. But if you or anyone else is interested, I'd share the link with you.

Keep in touch!
Pat

Gregorian

(23,867 posts)
13. I would very much like to read your blog.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 04:57 PM
Apr 2016

Sadly, I declined my 40th high school anniversary. It's just another grave disappointment of modern society that I am compelled to avoid the mess that used to be my home. Cars and billionaires are something I try to avoid. And my town is nothing but that. I love what you're doing. But I also feel as if I've been given something very special, as well as the feeling that there is time left to accomplish something. I've been all alone until now. So we've arranged marches, and debates. We had Grayson and Jolly on the other night, and it was a rocking debate. A quiet set with no audience, and Cenk Ungyur moderating. It really was revealing. I didn't know Grayson was such a solid moral progressive. He has gotten a lot of negative response on this forum.

OK, time for the outhouse demolition. To the outhouse!

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
15. Interesting.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 06:56 PM
Apr 2016

There are two gentlemen who run a large energy corporation in the northeast. I was friends with these two cousins while we were in school. But their family business put us on different sides when it came to fracking. They offered me a comfortable position as their "environmental spokesperson." I asked him not to embarrass either of us.And I was quite active with the pro-environment movement -- including doing the hunger strike per a state senator who served them. Neither speaks to me since.

They host the golf that many in our class feel obligated to attend. It'll be good to have another option for people.

https://waterman999.wordpress.com/2016/04/30/principles/

 

Wilms

(26,795 posts)
20. That's how it is for me.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:49 PM
Apr 2016

It's OK if some one does not like my principles, but they're all that I have. I will hold them dear and change them only if I meet information that warrants such action.

Thanks for the post.

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