2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSecret servers, secret speeches, fake twitter#'s, slush funds, paid trolls. What did I leave out?
Am I really expected to hold my nose and vote for her if she's the nominee just to stop Donald and save the Supreme Court? This sucks.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)SHRED
(28,136 posts)...they do the math talking points...remember?
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)What about her willingness to bomb women and children? Her saying a $12/hour minimum wage is just fine, even though she gets hundreds of thousands of dollars for one speech? How about her willingness to compromise on a woman's right to choose? Or that in the years she was on the Walmart board she did nothing to turn around the move to ever lower wages and the complete vilification of unions? Even though it is the unions that gave us stuff like the 40 hour week, paid vacations, health care benefits.
I see no evidence that she actually supports anyone other than the 1% she represents. I sincerely hope you are just fine when your Medicare and Social Security are cut while we fight more and more wars abroad.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Ascribing hyperbolic terrorist descriptions to an American politician just makes sane people dismiss you from the conversation without listening to any other points you may have to make.
Ta-ta...
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Tarc
(10,476 posts)"She wants to bombs women and children". Seriously? This is what I'd worry about most in a Sanders Presidency, that we'd become some weird neo-isolationist state.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)what is it that makes her supporters able to ignore all of this dangerous, ugly baggage, or, pretend it doesn't matter?
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)I see the same behavior in my low wage republican friends
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)NOT laughing about the bayonet rape and murder of a targeted "enemy" ("We came, we saw, he died! ha-ha-ha" and blowing Libya's society to smithereens--tens of thousands of innocents brutalized, displaced, killed, an on-going catastrophe for women and children in particular--is NOT 'neo-isolationist.'
NOT arming jihadist thugs to create civil chaos in yet another ME country, Syria, is NOT 'neo-isolationist.'
NOT supporting a fascist coup in yet another Latin American country, Honduras, where the women leading the anti-coup movement are being murdered by fascist death squads--not to mention systematic rapes all over the country, with gays also targeted--is NOT 'neo-isolationist.'
The U.S. can be fully engaged with the rest of the world through peaceful trade and diplomacy without murdering millions of people and inflicting other horrors upon them.
But that is not the way of Hillary Clinton's advisers--Robert Kagan (chief neo-con, architect of Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld's blueprint for destabilizing and dominating the ME), and Henry Fucking Kissinger, slaughterer of millions in Southeast Asia, and inflicter of yet more "regime change" (mass murder, torture, brutal repression) on Latin America.
Clinton supporters don't seem to realize that Clinton has become a neo-con. She has been "blooded" in Honduras, Libya, Syria and Iraq, and will carry the neo-con "Project For a New American Century" back into the White House, to the absolute glee of every war profiteer inside the Beltway. The neo-cons don't believe in diplomacy and peaceful trade. They believe in bludgeoning the rest of the world into submission.
It is NOT 'neo-isolationist' to oppose them. It is sanity to oppose them. Your conflation of peace with 'isolationism' is a symptom of how far the Democratic Party and our country have gone off the deep end of militarism and war, because YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE IT ANY MORE.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)I have no sympathy for the death of Khadaffy. I'm sorry that you do.
Peace Patriot
(24,010 posts)Do you believe in torture? Death penalty? What right did we have to arrange his torture and death? What right did we have to unleash the horrors of civil war on Libya's people?
Tarc
(10,476 posts)I'd say it came down to karma.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)most progressive country in Northern Africa, with literacy rates, equality for women and providing opportunity for other African nations to benefit?
Clearly you remember something totally different than I do, and if you think the current state of Libya is an improvement, you don't have a plot to lose.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Clearly, I do.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)totally different than I do.
Please proceed to tell me how Libya has benefited since the ouster of Qaddafi.
I'll wait.
And probably will be waiting until I'm old and gray for you to struggle to come up with an answer, but if you want to go there, I'm ready.
Maybe you will get around to discussing foreign policy blunders in Honduras, too. If you want to dance with me, you'd best be in good shape and wearing your dancing shoes.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)and literacy rates. That's your deal, bro.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'm stating outright facts.
You can gripe at me when the raccoon jokes die down, the deep South jokes subside, but in the end, it's the truth.
Oh, you don't know what the hell I'm talking about. Get in the trenches, darlin', and you will learn a thing or two.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)In his purges of opponents and dissidents over 4 decades of rule, and the tens of thousands more that were murdered globally as a result of his money funding bombers, hijackers, and the like.
But hey, at least they had nice roads!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I get your "The trains ran on time" defense, but it really doesn't apply here.
Ready to move on to Honduras?
Tarc
(10,476 posts)I think we're done here.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)For the sake of your soul, ask yourself if they should have been.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Mine is as well.
bjo59
(1,166 posts)bjo59
(1,166 posts)Reading some of the posts on here just makes my head hurt... and my stomach twist. Never have I read such a bunch of utter tripe in all my life... and delivered with such sublime confidence.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I try my hardest to keep the truth as my soul, and my word as my deed.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)she made lots of good-will tours and passed out flowers? Or do you know that she went ahead with all sorts of bombing programs. Or that she (along with far too many others) voted for the Iraq war?
It just goes on and on, and NEVER do the Hillarybots here respond substantively to such things. NEVER.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)Tarc
(10,476 posts)berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)but luckily we have youth and time on our side. Be ready to fight for your principles... although we haven't actually heard any principles from you... just snide smartass comments with no real substance.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Doesn't sound very democratic to me.
We have had a long primary season, and thus far Clinton has topped Sanders in the overall vote, states, and most importantly pledge delegates. The question was put to the voters as to which candidate they felt has the better vision for the country. Your guy didn't make it.
Advice; it is time to learn how to lose gracefully. I supported Dean in 2004 and Hillary in 2008. You'll move on, don't worry.
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)typically giving a sense of cathartic release.
You all want to talk and act like republicans... I have no problem moving the party to the left and saying goodbye to you DINOs... you don't care about free and fair elections.. you don't care about big money owning your candidate... you don't mind 44 years of bushs and clintons.. Yes purge we should.. read the definition again
Advice... pull your head out of the sand... see the corruption and influence corporate wall street money that your candidate represents... or head to the other side of the aisle where those values belong
Tarc
(10,476 posts)A majority of which decided to go in Clinton's direction.
Perhaps it may be time to consider the notion that most Democrats, particularly women, African-Americans, and Latinos (y'know, those blocs that Sanders performed abysmally with?) do not share your point-of-view?
You may just not be the party base after all...
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)you.. just don't get what the fight is about...bye bye smart mouth
Tarc
(10,476 posts)He and everyone else running for president for almost the past year or so has been covered to death by the media. Whether it is interviews on cable news, sitdowns with Meet the Press type shows or all of the televised debates, he has had more than enough coverage.
Seriously bro, the "people just haven't met Bernie yet" shtick petered out as a viable argument around January.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Some conspiracy. It's makes you guys look foolish
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)BTW, is she for or against fracking? I've forgotten her last stance on that?
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/09/hillary-clinton-fracking-shale-state-department-chevron
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-sainato/hillary-clinton-touted-fr_b_8564764.html
https://theintercept.com/2016/03/09/hillary-clinton-wants-to-regulate-fracking-but-still-accepts-a-lot-of-fracking-money/
She loves the children for sure . . . is it just American children?
If she fails in politics, she can get a job with the tobacco companies and sell tobacco to the rest of the world.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)You have just whitewashed large swaths of US history over the past seventy years. For Hillary. Amazing.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)but the notion that we "bomb women and children" indiscriminately is absurd. The last thing we need in the White House in the 21st century is a pacifist.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)She said bomb women and children, which the US has done from Dresden to Tripoli and many, many times in between.
The last thing we need is an eager "warrior" in the White House.
Response to Tarc (Reply #22)
Name removed Message auto-removed
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Tell that to the hundreds of activists and organizers assassinated in Honduras after the coup d'etat that Clinton supported there.
Tell that to the people still dying in the wake of the Libyan destruction with no plan for the day after, which Obama calls his greatest regret but Clinton was proud to own as her greatest SoS achievement.
bjo59
(1,166 posts)It's not a "hyperbolic terrorist description" of an American politician. It's the cold, hard truth. Where have you been?
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)Popularity arguments are weak.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Y'know, delegates? The counting of which determines the party nominee?
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)Besides, bringing up delegates is even less relevant to OP's question unless OP is a delegate, but I don't see any reason to believe that.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)that's kinda how elections are determined.
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)The people Hillary has attracted are an odd combination of dishonest, mean, and without self-awareness. Reminds me of Cruz's crowds.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)We're having en election. Your candidate didn't get as many votes as our candidate.
That's life, bro.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)Tarc
(10,476 posts)I'm sorry that it is such an alien concept to you that people have a preference for Clinton over Sanders.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Baobab
(4,667 posts)TM99
(8,352 posts)Party purity over principles.
The D after the name means she is the embodiment of liberal and progressive values.
What are you? So sort of selfish child? Now get yourself inline, hold your nose, and vote for the first female president despite her glaring flaws and scandals.
dinkytron
(568 posts)She's gonna get housed in the general if she wins the nom.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)dinkytron
(568 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)getting "housed" meant - getting an enema
I've never forgotten that moment...........
azmom
(5,208 posts)Getting housed.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)She will be wearing a lot of orange.
TM99
(8,352 posts)know this to be very true. She will not do well in the general.
lmbradford
(517 posts)quid pro quo.......money laundering thru the foundation. Deals for foreign nationals....God, so many I can't even think of them all.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)...in Honduras.
A Hillary State Department approved situation there, the effects of which are happening now.
It's the same war they called it "Manifest Destiny" in my school books in the 1960s and 1970s.
I was raised sanatized from this historic brutality against native cultures...but I found out.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)oasis
(49,381 posts)Oh my!
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Response to AzDar (Reply #16)
Post removed
vintx
(1,748 posts)It seems she's learned to stifle that particular type of idiocy ... at least.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,355 posts)Thanks for the thread, dinkytron.
Bohemianwriter
(978 posts)rigging the system...
But off course, a lead justifies all that.
senz
(11,945 posts)Almost six years later most Clinton aides can still rattle off the names of traitors and the favors that had been done for them, then provide details of just how each of the guilty had gone on to betray the Clintonsas if it all had happened just a few hours before. The data project ensured that the acts of the sinners and saints would never be forgotten.
There was a special circle of Clinton hell reserved for people who had endorsed Obama or stayed on the fence after Bill and Hillary had raised money for them, appointed them to a political post, or written a recommendation to ice their kids application to an elite school.
On one early draft of the hit list, each Democratic member of Congress was assigned a numerical grade from one to seven, with the most helpful to Hillary earning ones and the most treacherous drawing sevens. The set of sevens included Sens. John Kerry, Jay Rockefeller, Bob Casey, and Patrick Leahy, as well as Reps. Chris Van Hollen, Baron Hill, and Rob Andrews.
Lewis, because of his own place in American history and the unique loyalty test he faced with the first viable black candidate running for president, is a perfect example of why Clinton aides had to keep track of more detailed information than the simple binary of for and against. Perhaps someday Lewiss betrayal could be forgiven.
Ted Kennedy (another seven on the hit list) was a different story.
He had slashed Hillary worst of all, delivering a pivotal endorsement speech for Obama just before the Super Tuesday primaries that cast her as yesterdays news and Obama as the rightful heir to Camelot. He did it in conjunction with a New York Times op-ed by Caroline Kennedy that said much the same thing in less thundering tones. Bill Clinton had pleaded with Kennedy to hold off, but to no avail.
Still, Clinton aides exulted in schadenfreude when their enemies faltered. Years later they would joke about the fates of folks who they felt had betrayed them.
Bill Richardson: investigated; John Edwards: disgraced by scandal; Chris Dodd: stepped down, one said to another. Ted Kennedy, the aide continued, lowering his voice to a whisper for the punch line, dead.
More at the link.
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/195188-hillarys-hit-list
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Why not post something positive about your candidate?
You're not "expected" to do anything. Silly comment.
That'll be between you and your conscience.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)of every issue. . That is her lifelong achievement.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Btw, "smart people" know how to spell people.
I see from your transparency page that negativity is nothing new to you.
Have a nice day now.
dinkytron
(568 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)This their strategy, to keep her history, her true nature, under wraps.
What amazes me is: they know how bad she is. They just don't want others to know it.
Gives me the creeps.
dinkytron
(568 posts)going forward together, brothers and sisters, wherever that may be. That we are fighting big money interests and corporate culture. I believe in Bernie, his values and his humility.
And to be on the same side as Danny Glover and Harry Belafonte-- the two most awesome justice fighters I know, makes me feel so good. LETS KEEP FIGHTING! I love you guys and gals!!!!!
senz
(11,945 posts)We are up against something ugly, but together we can resist and overcome it.
We need to support each other and not give up.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Seems you have all given up on that tack.
The desperation coming from your side is what is so sad.
You can post all the negative stories you want, quote right-wing talking points if you so desire.
You won't change a single mind. Surely you know that.
That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)It must be hard to be a Clinton supporter, post how anti-gun she is and then lil' Annie Oakley returns to Pennsylvania.
You think your candidate has "the numbers", Karl? Fine, then why the desperate worried posts in response to anyone who doesn't like the DLC's latest attempt to make America center-right again. If I were as sure as you Clinton supporters claim to be, I'd just relax and understand that people aren't going to have the same opinion that I do. After all isn't Democratic Underground's Sanders supporters an insignificant aberration that's not reflected in the "real world"? That's what I read often in the pouting chamber Hillary Clinton Group.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)I've dropped by over in Bernie world and the denialism going on there is astonishing.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)The last time I did (right after NY) I noticed a few usually regular posters had disappeared.
Curious.
I could make an analogy here, but I won't.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Your post actually made me chuckle.
You are actually calling me "Karl" ? No worries; I never alert, but that was chuckle-worthy.
Can you engage without personal attacks?
Apparently, you are the second or third to show me that you cannot.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)The fact that a venal, inconsistent, corporate tool of dubious integrity is the frontrunner is deeply humiliating for the party.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)Depaysement
(1,835 posts)FarPoint
(12,351 posts)He is still running as an Independent related to his Senate seat ..and currently anti Democratic Party issues.....with paid trolls.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)The party they REPRESENT is based on the ISSUES they stand for.
No one can make the argument that Hillary is a Democrat and Bernie is not with any factual basis.
FarPoint
(12,351 posts)Facebook propaganda from Bernie and company. You know that..
Marr
(20,317 posts)Is this really how you treat facts that don't support your assumptions? You just pretend they aren't facts, and go on believing?
FarPoint
(12,351 posts)Modified.... The Superdelegates will Remember.
Marr
(20,317 posts)But you did sort of answer my question.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)running as one very soon.
Sky Masterson
(5,240 posts)And we as collective democrats for elevating her are giving the Republicans the White house.
randome
(34,845 posts)And you forgot to reference your own petulant bitterness, as unclassy as it is to see displayed here. If you see yourself as a loser, you will always be a loser.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)I also saw some guy who was the former head of the DIA, which is the Defense department equivalent to the CIA.
He said that in Obama's interview with Mike Wallace, Obama had said that Hillary was "careless" with the classified information. He had also commented at another time that she had been careless with Libya and the Russian Reset and the Pacific Pivot. In other words she seems to have shown very poor judgement consistently. Is that who we want as our president?
Not me!
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)From Bernie voting against the Brady bill
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Oh wait I get it ... you WANT Hillary to lose in November so we can have a President Trump, who destroys the country ... and then 4 years later the Bernie revolution rises from the ashes.
Very telling choice of pronouns on your part.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)I am not emotionally invested in her campaign
Her losing only bears out my opinion and nothing else
And while if she is elected WE will all lose if she is not i dont really give enough of a red fuck about her to drop a.single tear for her.
My sadness will be for.my country on either count.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)they seem to prefer spite over us?
They can look at Hillary vs. Trump and decide for themselves. So it's an odd choice to taunt us about it. If they care about themselves at all, they'd vote. Yet it is implied they won't because we weren't nice enough to them - their own interests have been forgotten.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)And there is a segment of these folks who see the total collapse of the country as a necessary condition for their personal version of Utopia to rise from the ashes.
Jackilope
(819 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
peace13
(11,076 posts)They refuse to allow it. There is absolutely no reason to believe that this behavior will not continue. If there is a remedie to this obstruction, why not use it today.
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)Saving the Supreme Court? Also Priceless.
Want some more?
Preventing Republican control of all three branches of federal government? Beyond priceless.
Vote for the Democrat in November!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)... if you can.
You have held yourself up as a precinct captain.
You should be offended, concerned and outright alarmed at what is going on with "running out of ballots" narrowing polling places and people's registration getting flipped.
I can't believe you are condoning this.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)and continue their pogrom against 'others'. Republicans spend billions to 'attack' the D party, they have thousands of media, bloggers and RW radio shows and a TV station to spam you daily.
Can you vote against that beast or are you so demoralized you've given up the only democracy you own(your one vote)?
berniepdx420
(1,784 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,339 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]
dinkytron
(568 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Clinton is of a female generation that needed to prove they were as brave and strong as men. It's something that insinuates itself into the minds of ambitious women of that generation -that they will never be good enough.
The idea of sniper fire obviously came to her lips before she could stop it and then she rambled on and made it worse.
I honestly don't think it counts as a 'lie' -although it was untrue- because I'm willing to give anyone -yes, even Clinton- the benefit of a doubt with the knowledge that her generation has had many more struggles to be seen as equals than the generations that followed.
But then I'm a forgiving person and willing to look at the entirety of someone's intentions, not take one isolated -stupid- remark and make it into more than it should be.
I don't even fault Sanders for some of the stupid things he's said -like how Clinton isn't qualified or that southern states don't count or that he's losing only because poor people don't vote. It's just static.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]
treestar
(82,383 posts)you get to vote for whoever you want and whoever you think is in your best interest to have in the office.
You get to decide this for yourself.
reddread
(6,896 posts)aint seen nothin.
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)awake
(3,226 posts)felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)and demoralize a population that has awakened to the possibility of having real representation in Washington, just to get into the WH again. Her campaign is cruel and obviously sees nothing wrong with insulting and demoralizing and dismissing whole swaths of the population, just to beat us back into hopelessness in a system that has not represented us in many years.
The anger the Progressive movement has is toward the people who will not share goods and resources, we want a participatory democracy where EVERYONE is represented, and we love this enthusiasm and cooperation!!
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Baobab
(4,667 posts)nt
sentenza607
(22 posts)... and, I'm pretty certain, stealing my socks from the dryer every now and then.
Rex
(65,616 posts)edhopper
(33,575 posts)Next President of the United States.
OhZone
(3,212 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Clinton Foundation.
Republicans are chomping at the bit to unleash hell over that. They just want her to get the nomination first.
They're keeping their powder dry on this and a lot more.
She's got more baggage than a fucking Samsonite factory.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)baggage.
matt819
(10,749 posts)The quid pro quo for her actions as SoS after donations to the Clinton foundation. These two are racketeers.
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Esp. when they show one candidate superior to another!
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)questionseverything
(9,654 posts)Dem2
(8,168 posts)or so I've been told on DU-GDP
onecaliberal
(32,852 posts)gordianot
(15,237 posts)Vote for Hillary no Donald, save the Supreme Court. DU is the only place I know that anyone likes Hillary. I actually get perverse pleasure from denial.