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H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
Fri Apr 22, 2016, 07:52 PM Apr 2016

Friday Morning at 9 O'clock

“The future depends upon what you do today.”
-- Gandhi

Three days after the New York State presidential primary, any discouragement that Bernie Sanders’s supporters felt should have lifted. Yes, Hillary won more votes and delegates. And yes, the system was compromised by voting “irregularities.” Yet, when we review the outcome -- and the process that led to it -- the Sanders Revolution is gaining strength.

Let’s start by looking at Hillary’s history in the state. After deciding to run for the US Senate, Clinton bought a home here in 1999. In 2000, she ran for the seat being vacated by Daniel Patrick Moynihan. Initially, it was believed her opponent would be Rudy Giuliani; after he dropped out, Ricky Lazio became the republican candidate. Hillary won the contest with 55% of the votes cast.

Six years later, Clinton ran for re-election. Once again, the republican front-runner, Jeannine Pirro, would drop out; the republicans then went with sacrificial goat John Spencer. Hillary set a state record by not only winning 67% to 31%, but by carrying 58 of the state’s 62 counties.

But that wasn’t the only record Hillary set in 2006. Her campaign had spent over $36 million in what was by definition a one-sided contest. More, two months after her victory, Hillary transferred the left-over $10 million she had, to her upcoming 2008 presidential campaign.

In the 2008 New York presidential primary, Clinton beat Obama, 57% to 40%. More, she won 61 of New York State’s 62 counties.

Thus, going into the 2016 primary season, it was evident that it would be very difficult to defeat Clinton in New York. Regardless of if she remained highly popular with the voting public, her associates on Wall Street would be heavily invested in promoting her campaign. The fact that Wall Street firms such as Goldman Sachs were paying her a quarter of a million dollars for appearances behind closed doors suggests how close their working relationship has become.

Bernie Sanders, on the other hand, has never been in the Wall Street social circle. The economic elite has never liked Bernie, any more than they liked the people of the Occupy movement. When Senator Sanders entered the race a year ago, the corporate media attempted to portray him as a nutty, socialist character, who posed no threat to the establishment’s candidate, Hillary Clinton.

Fortunately, the word “socialism” no longer scares that many people. Most thinking adults grasp that Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, public libraries, public schools, and city streets and rural highways are all socialist programs. Still, to some people, the mere word conjures up images of the Soviet Union and “Red” China, Fidel and Che.

In most instances, these are aging men who came of age during this nation’s “red scare.” And, truth be told, things such as the Cuban Missile Crises were scary. It’s interesting to note that had the president been either of the two that preceded John F. Kennedy, or the two that followed, there would have been a nuclear war that would have drastically changed human history. Without question, there are times when having the right person in office is important. Like JFK, there are the right people for certain times, as well as a few who would be right at any time. Likewise, there are wrong people for any time, and there are people who are wrong for certain times. And Bernie is the right politician, right now.

Today’s current situation may not appear as “dangerous” as the Cuban Missile Crisis on the surface ….but the combination of global climate change, a weak economy, and a gross failure in leadership adds up to a very perilous time in our nation’s history. Rather, it is a time that demands a different type of leadership than the establishment provides for.

Bernie Sanders is 100% correct when he states that we need a revolution to resolve these problems. The Sanders campaign has done an extraordinary service, in helping to organize the many different groups and individuals in our country that need to present a united front. Although we are a non-violent force, I like to think of Onondaga Chief Paul Waterman’s teaching that alone, we are like individual fingers that our enemy can easily break; together, we form a powerful fist that is capable of protecting all of our rights.

How powerful? The results of this week’s primary is an accurate measure: in less than a year, a candidate who was initially not given any chance won the vast majority of the counties in our state. Clinton won Wall Street, and continues to have the support of the cocktail party liberals. The accomplishment of the Sanders‘s campaign is real power..

Yes, I certainly wish Bernie had won all of New York State. But no, I am not discouraged by the outcome. Our opposition is pretending that the struggle is over, of course, but we should not expect that they would suddenly start telling the truth. For the Clinton campaign is rooted in the establishment, and serves as an advocate for business-as-usual. It places Wall Streets greed over your and my needs.

This revolution is a long and hard struggle for change. Our opposition will fight tooth and nail against social justice. But we won’t give up …..in fact, we are just warming up.

Keep on fighting the Good Fight.
H2O Man

56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Friday Morning at 9 O'clock (Original Post) H2O Man Apr 2016 OP
3 things: JaneyVee Apr 2016 #1
There were pluses H2O Man Apr 2016 #12
Bernie shows an inability to connect with everyone else. JaneyVee Apr 2016 #15
Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Apr 2016 #17
Very interesting. kgnu_fan Apr 2016 #40
Bernie shows an inability to connect with everyone else???!!! bvar22 Apr 2016 #47
climate change nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #2
Right. H2O Man Apr 2016 #13
Some of us are ahead nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #55
Thanks once again, H20 Man. democrank Apr 2016 #3
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2016 #14
great essay, w/ many important facts! thanks for posting this! amborin Apr 2016 #4
Thank you. H2O Man Apr 2016 #16
Thank you, my friend! babylonsister Apr 2016 #5
Thank you. H2O Man Apr 2016 #18
+1 dchill Apr 2016 #28
Well and clearly said, my dear H20 Man! CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2016 #6
Thanks, Peggy! H2O Man Apr 2016 #19
I am logging back in specifically to tell you how much I appreciate what you have said here. kayakjohnny Apr 2016 #7
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2016 #20
Thank You Old Codger Apr 2016 #8
Right. H2O Man Apr 2016 #23
Quite true Old Codger Apr 2016 #31
I keep thinking H2O Man Apr 2016 #36
Yes, we will win! kgnu_fan Apr 2016 #9
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2016 #37
This is a wonderful thread and I am sorry I missed it Samantha Apr 2016 #10
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2016 #24
I can't give up on taking climate change seriously. raouldukelives Apr 2016 #11
Exactly. H2O Man Apr 2016 #25
Well thought out and an excellent OP, H2O Man. Uncle Joe Apr 2016 #21
Thanks, Uncle Joe. H2O Man Apr 2016 #26
Excellent and thx! nt slipslidingaway Apr 2016 #22
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2016 #27
You are most welcome :) nt slipslidingaway Apr 2016 #38
The Shrillness noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #29
Definitely. H2O Man Apr 2016 #33
I'm not sure how you do this strange calming effect when I read your posts, insights... glowing Apr 2016 #30
Oh, thank you! H2O Man Apr 2016 #34
Hear! Hear! Sky Masterson Apr 2016 #32
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2016 #35
Good job H2O Man Sensitive soul Apr 2016 #39
Thank you. H2O Man Apr 2016 #43
K&R! vintx Apr 2016 #41
Thanks! H2O Man Apr 2016 #44
Semper Fidelis! K&R n/t bobthedrummer Apr 2016 #42
Thanks, Brother Bob! H2O Man Apr 2016 #45
Your OP is just what I needed to read! pacalo Apr 2016 #46
Thank you. H2O Man Apr 2016 #49
Great post! jpmonk91 Apr 2016 #48
Thank you! H2O Man Apr 2016 #50
I see us growing aswell jpmonk91 Apr 2016 #51
Right. H2O Man Apr 2016 #54
Excellent post! Beowulf Apr 2016 #52
Thanks! H2O Man Apr 2016 #53
I debated whether to chime in or not, but here goes... antigop Apr 2016 #56


(19,877 posts)
1. 3 things:
Fri Apr 22, 2016, 07:58 PM
Apr 2016

1-Bernie is from NY.
2-Upstate NY and Vermont share a border.
3-Hillary won a landslide again.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
12. There were pluses
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 08:31 AM
Apr 2016

and minuses for both candidates. Bernie would obviously have benefited from winning more delegates. Hillary shows an inability to connect with the progressive community. These are realities that will damage the Democratic Party, from the convention through November.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
17. Respectfully disagree.
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 08:48 AM
Apr 2016

NYS has closed primaries. The left wing of the Democratic Party now breaks bread with the Democratic Left. Had independents been allowed to vote in the primary, Bernie would have won at least 60 counties.

More, as virtually every poll documents, Bernie would do much better against Donald Trump than would Hillary.

Still more, should the republican establishment deny Trump the nomination -- a very real possibility -- at least half of his supporters would vote for Bernie, if he wins the nomination. Virtually none would vote for Hillary, if she is our nominee.

The Clinton campaign -- not Hillary herself -- have created a divide in our party that they cannot heal by November. As I've stated previously, the Clinton campaign is intent upon winning enough republican support to insure victory in November. I believe that is a flawed strategy. But we'll see.


(39,909 posts)
47. Bernie shows an inability to connect with everyone else???!!!
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 07:35 PM
Apr 2016

Which hole have you been hiding in?
Bernie has been filling stadiums with people that, according to you, he can't connect with.

Yeah, he's "not connecting" at all with these crowds in town after town, Rally after rally....not connecting.

OTOH, Hillary DOES seem to connect well with exclusive $3500 a plate dinners and small Wall Street gatherings.



(154,021 posts)
2. climate change
Fri Apr 22, 2016, 07:59 PM
Apr 2016



If we do not deal with this, extinction is a very real possibility.

Even if we do, it is still in the cards.

Yesterday two OPs on this critical subject were locked. That speaks volumes...

As to the revolution... digging my way though off shores and all that shit, and there will be a violent revolution if a peaceful one is not allowed. You spoke of Kennedy... most folks do not realize that he was talking of democratic elections. Nor is this just in the United States.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
13. Right.
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 08:35 AM
Apr 2016

What is required now, quite literally, is an evolution of human consciousness. People need to wake up and recognize the situation that we are confronted with. And understand that we have to change our behaviors, rather than continue down the same path that created the problems to begin with.


(11,122 posts)
3. Thanks once again, H20 Man.
Fri Apr 22, 2016, 08:08 PM
Apr 2016

The "long and hard struggle for change" is far more important than another short-term status quo "win" backed by the Establishment and the machine that keeps it running.

We ARE just warming up.


H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
16. Thank you.
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 08:40 AM
Apr 2016

For a variety of reasons, I've long kept track of numbers. Every so often, they help put things into context. I'm glad that you appreciate what these numbers show!


(150,257 posts)
6. Well and clearly said, my dear H20 Man!
Fri Apr 22, 2016, 08:29 PM
Apr 2016

You always put down the facts with a minimum of fuss. Just the plain truth for all to see.

Whether or not the opposition can absorb them is another matter.

But you have more than done your part.

Thank you!



(5,235 posts)
7. I am logging back in specifically to tell you how much I appreciate what you have said here.
Fri Apr 22, 2016, 08:48 PM
Apr 2016

I have been silent for at least two or three years. Maybe more. Five perhaps. I've read, and continue to read all of your posts, and have since the beginning. I was under the name 'waterman' here years ago. Thank you a thousand times over for your insight, your dignified contributions to this forum, and your wisdom in general. I always enjoy your references to our native teachers, though from whom we still have yet to learn a single lesson.

All the best to you, H2O Man!


Old Codger

(4,205 posts)
8. Thank You
Fri Apr 22, 2016, 08:49 PM
Apr 2016

Right on the money as usual..... no matter where this year ends I and I truly believe a large portion if not all of his will carry the fight forward, the nation in order to survive needs that to happen.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
23. Right.
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 01:01 PM
Apr 2016

It's not only that getting to true democracy requires an on-going process ....but democracy itself is an on-going process with struggles.


Old Codger

(4,205 posts)
31. Quite true
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 01:35 PM
Apr 2016

Never ending process, the power hungry always need more control and true democracy does not allow for that...

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
36. I keep thinking
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 02:40 PM
Apr 2016

about when Bernie went from Binghamton, NY, up to the Onondaga Nation. There were some nice photos of Bernie meeting with Faith/Wisdom Keeper Oren Lyons, Paul's nephew. And of our option for a very different kind of politics and leadership.

And I remember back when I was a young man, hearing Oren say that the fruits of our labor for true democracy -- fully connected to the Natural World -- might not take place in our lifetimes. But that we were investing in the future for seven generations.


(9,314 posts)
10. This is a wonderful thread and I am sorry I missed it
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 03:12 AM
Apr 2016

You made so many good points to cheer up Sanders' supporters.

I don't think the problem is that Sanders lost a state primary; I think the problem is that while many have thought from the beginning "the fix is in" -- that was the pie thrown in our face when those results came in. I do not believe Sanders' internal numbers reflected a 15 percent loss. A few points okay, but 15?

Regardless, now we know what we have to do. We have to fight harder, dig deeper into our pockets, stand up to the people asking Sanders to give up, defend him against the unfair accusations, beat back the pure insults. The point is not only cannot Sanders concede, we must not either. We need to bomb the political platform with reasons why the remaining voters must choose the better candidate for the White House because not to do so will inflict serious harm not only to this Country but to the rest of the world as well from hereon out to eternity.

Thank you for this thread, and please excuse my rant. I am fired up and ready to go as you say "fight the good fight!"


H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
24. Thank you!
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 01:05 PM
Apr 2016

I'm glad that you didn't miss this thread, and I always like your contributions. And I agree 100% that this is the appropriate time to dig deeper, and fight harder. I think that in about 17-20 days, we will see a significant improvement.


(5,178 posts)
11. I can't give up on taking climate change seriously.
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 07:30 AM
Apr 2016

I care too much for animals and wildlife to throw them away forever for a little more for myself today.


(1,890 posts)
29. The Shrillness
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 01:21 PM
Apr 2016

of the establishment push to get Bernie out after NY should be all you need to know that they are scared. They see the same numbers. If Bernie was a non-issue for them they wouldn't be so hysterical about him remaining in the race. They wouldn't be trying to get him to "tone down" his comparison between his campaign and hers. They know that the comparison is what is appealing to the voters and that's why they can't have it. The fact that they are campaigning against both Bernie AND his supporters speaks volumes.



(12,233 posts)
30. I'm not sure how you do this strange calming effect when I read your posts, insights...
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 01:34 PM
Apr 2016

What you have said is something that has been posted in similarity by others over the last few days... Many of those just feel frantic, scattered, and upset (probably what they were feeling 5 seconds after CNN called the NY election). But you calmly tread through the waters, place intention and thought on the words you choose to use. Perhaps that is what I'm picking up? You are one of the most inspirational persons I'm privileged to read on DU, and DU is so very lucky to have you as well. Thank you for being here. Thank you for caring. Thank you for teaching so many of us.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
34. Oh, thank you!
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 02:31 PM
Apr 2016

The OP is yesterday's contribution to my blog. Now, it's funny: before posting it yesterday, I had nice conversations with two of my children about the relationship between self-identity, perception, and communications. And I said that I love DU, though I might use the blog to reach different audiences. I've been thinking about this topic lately ....since being asked to write for an "old hippie" paper, actually.

However, I freely note that, being human, I can also be a jackass, make a complete fool of myself, and behave poorly. About a week ago, I saw part of a post here on DU, completed mis-read it -- without even seeing the author is an old friend and great person -- and I snarled. It's bugged the shit out of me since. I need to make amends, although I am slow in doing so. While I wish that I could blame it all on whoever brought the Guinness into my home, but I realize that I bought it myself.


(24,722 posts)
46. Your OP is just what I needed to read!
Sat Apr 23, 2016, 07:31 PM
Apr 2016

With regard to how Bernie's NY loss affected me, Samantha described it perfectly:

I don't think the problem is that Sanders lost a state primary; I think the problem is that while many have thought from the beginning "the fix is in" -- that was the pie thrown in our face when those results came in. I do not believe Sanders' internal numbers reflected a 15 percent loss. A few points okay, but 15?

Thanks for such a wise, uplifting OP, H2O Man!

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
50. Thank you!
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 07:30 PM
Apr 2016

There's a lot of people investing in the Sanders Revolution. It's fun to read how much our opposition has spent, trying to derail the movement. But we continue to grow stronger ......in part, because they do not fully understand what motivates us. They have given up on their humanity, and become mere cogs in the machine.

Then they are going to tell us we need to quit? Naw. I don't think so. Every day, I see us growing stronger.

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
54. Right.
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 08:09 PM
Apr 2016

I've been in contact with student leaders from colleges in a number of states with up-coming primaries. I'm feeling confident. "Ideas" are funny things: once people start thinking certain ideas, it would be mighty hard to stop thinking about them. And thinking leads to action. What we are witnessing is an important part of of society, and history. Let's make the most of it!

H2O Man

(73,994 posts)
53. Thanks!
Sun Apr 24, 2016, 08:06 PM
Apr 2016

I have my moments ....but I feel better about 2016 than I have ever felt before. And I say that as a human being who is convinced that Bernie is the only good choice in 2016.


(12,778 posts)
56. I debated whether to chime in or not, but here goes...
Mon Apr 25, 2016, 11:48 AM
Apr 2016

First of all, thank you for your OP.

I do find it almost unbelievable that Bernie has managed to come as far as he has, given what he was up against.

However, here is my question:

How do we move forward from here given (what I consider) a corrupt system?


How do you change a system that is (what I consider) corrupt when the power brokers make the rules and maybe even skirt election law?

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