2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI'm proud of my candidate. Can you honestly say the same?
Hosting an event that 99%+ of Americans could not afford to attend nor would be invited, in which almost the entire guest list consists of multimillionaires and multibillionaires, in a multimillionaire's home, in which access to an invitation to that event is likely very exclusive and very limited, for the purpose of racking in millions for her campaign and SuperPACs, while Sanders is at an international conference on income inequality, makes Sanders case for him.
I will no longer choose the lesser of two bad choices, I choose the best candidate, Bernie Sanders.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)But I support Bernie too, so of course I'm proud.
Faux pas
(14,672 posts)in total agreement!
She was brilliant
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)angrychair
(8,698 posts)You have a right to your choice but not facts.
I have watched the entire NY debate now, 3 times, with a critical eye,"brilliant" is not the descriptor I would use for HRC's performance. She had her good moments and Sanders had some rough spots but on the aggregate, Sanders scored higher and finished much stronger.
Then she went to CA to to hang with other multimillionaires and multibillionaires, like herself, to do whatever it is they do...swim in pools filled with hundred dollar bills and laugh at poor people I suppose.
Stuckinthebush
(10,845 posts)She killed it. She is a very good debater.
Bernie looked stunned and out of his league.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)So yeah pretty proud of that.
Apparently Sanders supporters look down on that sort of thing.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Prove it...or retract it.
angrychair
(8,698 posts)Then she went to CA to to hang with other multimillionaires and multibillionaires, like herself, to do whatever it is they do, talk about how great it is to be rich and richsplan why poor people don't get how the real world works?
Or as an HRC supporter on this site stated, "they would be happier in a local community college, with people more like them than in regular 4 year college and universities."
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)angrychair
(8,698 posts)Despite what you think, I don't hate her or want to disparage the good she has done in her life.
That said, I do have serious concerns regarding her judgment. Education, experience and accomplishments are great but her judgment is, to put it mildly, poor.
From Whitewater to the email server, even if no laws were broken, her judgment was poor. The decisions she made that got her involved with any number of situations were shockingly poor decisions.
Even this event in CA. She is going to hang out and party with millionaires, in a millionaire's mansion and rack in millions for her SuperPACs at the very same moment her opponent in a very tight race, is at a significant international conference on income inequality. You don't think the optics are poor? If that is what she needs to do, fine, so be it, but wait until after Sanders is back and maybe after NY is over, before doing it. Bad decisions make me question her judgment. If I can't trust her judgment, I cannot trust her with my vote to be president.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)time with voters in the housing projects of East Harlem.
Do those people not count?
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Can't wait till she starts milking cows upstate...to show what a woman of the people she is.
AFTER the Bay Area shin-digs, of course.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)while here?
jmg257
(11,996 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)transcripts, like tax returns and illegal guns from VT- any day now.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)been within 10 feet of a regular New Yorker in 48 years.
Thx
jmg257
(11,996 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Zadroga bill has been a HUGE fight.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Maybe I'll run into her when she's milking them cows, or picking apples. Or ???
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)have
gotcha
(full disclosure: my wife has family in upstate, and most people up there don't have your attitude)
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Just what attitude you are referring to?
Ah...sorry - should have been "Hill fan", not Nyc- lots of work on Broadway.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)She really did go to bat for the city after 911. And she didn't stop after she resigned as Senator either.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)My SIL went down (nurse) and told us about the people at the site and how bad the air was etc. and how hard it was to get them to even wear gas masks.
Your point is accepted and understood.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)in Brooklyn. we could smell jet fuel and god knows what else.
I can't imagine what the first responders endured.
Zadroga act only got permanently renewed in 2015. After first responders had to limp and get wheeled through the halls of Congress while in their dying days to shame those motherfucking Republicans into action. For years.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... said multiple times in her career that she wish she could take back some votes.
Way better than the Podium Bird Chosen One
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)reposting (just an example of course).
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/30/hillary-clinton-ubs-tax-evasion-settlement-foundation
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/hillary-helps-a-bankand-then-it-pays-bill-15-million-in-speaking-fees/400067/
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/presidential-campaign/272396-the-clintons-and-the-sordid-ubs-affair
Those facts, of themselves, raise disturbing questions. Did a bank that still ranks as "the world's biggest wealth manager" and has at its disposal a bevy of economists and law firms have a legitimate reason for paying Bill Clinton $1.5 million in speaking fees? Or was the $1.5 million and the tenfold increase in Clinton Foundation donations a reward for the former secretary of State's intervention? If the latter, that reward would have, under federal law (18 U.S.C. § 201(c)(1)(A)), amounted to an illicit bribe.
-snip-
In exchange for the "deferred prosecution" of criminal fraud charges, UBS paid $780 million in fines and restitution, agreed to cease the illegal cross-border practice and "to immediately provide the United States government with the identities of, and account information for, certain United States customers of UBS's cross-border business," according to the DoJ press release.
When UBS, which could have lost its ability to conduct business in the U.S. if successfully prosecuted, balked at the IRS demand that it turn over information for all 52,000 accounts, the IRS filed a legal action seeking to compel disclosure. That is when, at the behest of the Swiss government, Hillary Clinton stepped in to negotiate a deal that prevented the IRS from gaining access to more than 91 percent of the illicit, tax-evading offshore accounts.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Kittycat
(10,493 posts)This is what she did, and just because - that's what happened next.
ETA: if you want to talk about Republicans, you may want to ask your candidate, why she's using republican talking points now, and quoting her Republican loving Dad. "free stuff" She should be ashamed of herself.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)jack_krass
(1,009 posts)angstlessk
(11,862 posts)Though I would LOVE to be more like Australia (no guns, without a license & a reason) The law does not grant blanket immunity..
In other words: If you aim and fire a gun at an attacker, it's doing what it was intended to do. If it explodes while you shoot and hurts you, though, then you can sue the manufacturer. Likewise, if you had told the gun-store owner you planned to commit a crime with that gun, your victim could potentially sue.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... trying to make it safer?!
Yeap, most of the retort on Sanders vote has been sophistry and excuses...
Mr "Burn Everyone On Wall Street" but save the gumper corps...
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)These are great times to be a democrat.
angrychair
(8,698 posts)Like when she went to CA to to hang with other multimillionaires and multibillionaires, like herself, to do whatever it is they do, talk about how great it is to be rich and richsplan why poor people don't get how the real world works?
Or as an HRC supporter on this site stated, "they would be happier in a local community college, with people more like them than in regular 4 year college and universities."
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Absolutely no issue with that at all. You do know Sanders himself falls in the multimillionaire category, right? You do know Sanders has had meetings with multimillionaire after multimillionaire, right?
angrychair
(8,698 posts)Sanders is not a multimillionaire.
According to CNN Money, the retirement nest egg him and Jane have likely built up in 40+ years of working is rather large but he is not getting that money all at once nor is it accessible in the conventional sense.
Calculating in his retirement accounts or home value is ridiculous and a desperate reach in comparison to the millions and millions of dollars flowing through the hands of your candidate for 30 minute speeches that she refuses to let us read.
http://time.com/money/4235986/bernie-sanders-millionaire-finances/
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)angrychair
(8,698 posts)There is is a big difference between realized earnings and net worth. A retirement account is an annualized payment, achieved once that person has retired. There is no "lump sum" payable to the retiree nor is it realized earnings.
Again, he didn't become a millionaire on 20 minute speeches, to criminal organizations like Goldman Sachs ( http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0X81TI ) that no one is allowed to read.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)The attempts at justification for arguments around here is flat out awesome.
angrychair
(8,698 posts)Please explain.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Clinton hanging out with multimillionaires. We both know Sanders meets with multimillionaires every single day. That must drive you crazy since it is a huge point as to how you view peoples character. You completely glossed over that. By the way, I am correct on both of my points no matter how you attempt to spin them.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)... /sarcasm
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)With the bird and Sanders I guess that makes two prophets.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Does that happen to 'normal' people?
Besides, you may have too much invested in personalities to be proud of someone you don't personally know. I'm not proud of either candidate, they simply are two people vying for the same job.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font][hr]
angrychair
(8,698 posts)You don't change the world for the better by sitting in front of a computer screen or standing behind a podium, you change the world for the better by going into it with a humble heart and an open mind.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)against the billionaires that would be funding his opposition?
Tarc
(10,476 posts)This quasi-socialism impresses no one.
Impedimentus
(898 posts)I expect not.
FEEL THE BERN - 2016
Arkansas Granny
(31,515 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)You understand that, right?
Arkansas Granny
(31,515 posts)And that remark makes me understand a few things about you, as well.
bvf
(6,604 posts)No need for the personal attacks.
Arkansas Granny
(31,515 posts)YMMV.
bvf
(6,604 posts)I really don't believe most Clinton supporters know who their candidate is.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Avalux
(35,015 posts)If Hillary's ends up as the nominee, I will vote my conscience.
DookDook
(166 posts)oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)kennetha
(3,666 posts)She will be a GREAT and consequential president. As the first democrat to follow another two term democrat in over sixty years, she will be well positioned to consolidate Barack Obama's legacy, protect it from Republican reaction, and move the ball forward on down the line even further.
Democrats should stand behind her and get past this primary. Bernie has had his day and his say. Time to move on.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)BreakfastClub
(765 posts)to make it this far in American politics. She is a fascinating, dynamic woman and yes I'm proud as hell of her.
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)I am proud that she will be the Democratic nominee