One way for Bernie to salvage something from Popegate.

[DanTex]

Go to the Vatican and, instead of giving his same old stump speech about billionaires, take the Catholic Church to task for their regressive stances on social issues like abortion and LGBT rights. Show us that you're not just a one-note pandering politician.

Show the same kind of courage that Hillary did at the UN Conference in Beijing where she told the world and the Chinese government that "women's rights are human rights." How about it, Bernie?

[TheBlackAdder]

1. After all, that's what a refined person would do. Act like the Palin's crashing a pool party.

[B Calm]

2. LOL +1

[Goblinmonger]

3. He's already openly condemned them

“I was very moved by the invitation, which was just made public today. I am a big, big fan of the Pope. Obviously there are areas where we disagree on women’s rights, gay rights, but he has played an unbelievable role, an unbelievable role in injecting a moral consequence into the economy."

Full Article

What has Clinton said about the bigotry of the RCC?

[Sheepshank]

7. That's even less effective that all those now Sanders supporters....

...that post on this discussion board crowing about holding Obama's feet to the fire.

How about Bernie actually do something substantive on this matter.

[Goblinmonger]

17. You mean like support it in his capacity in Congress

You really want to put Clinton's record against his on this? Seriously?

And you think Sanders is going to get RCC policy changed? How, exactly? But he has said he doesn't agree with their policy on women and gays. What has Clinton said about their policy in that regard?

[Sheepshank]

22. Bernie has a chance to go big with this, per the OP

Remember, when Bernie entered this race, after 25 years of laying sideways in the public trough, he was an unknown. He could get himself known in a big way.

[Goblinmonger]

41. "Laying sideways in the public trough"

1. What a wonderful RW talking point.
2. And yet such an unknown is giving the anointed one a serious run for her money.

[DanTex]

18. LOL. Oh, yeah, really coming down hard on them....

[Goblinmonger]

19. What has Clinton said?

[DanTex]

23. She said "women's rights are human rights" to the Chinese government.

[Goblinmonger]

42. And she said what to or about the RCC?

[beam me up scottie]

52. While opposing the rights of lesbians to marry their partners in this country.

[Kittycat]

56. And took $2M from a Chinese co in 2013 for the Foundation

Who has also spent $1.4M lobbying congress and the state department since 2012. The owner, a billionaire, is also a delegate to to the Chinese parliament.

[Sheepshank]

25. After 21,000 posts, you really don't know the reference

To Hillarys speech given in China?

[Goblinmonger]

43. When did she call out the RCC?

[beam me up scottie]

49. She said "I believe marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman".

[JCanete]

4. starting to think, after the 50th post, this is all just performance art. nt

[frylock]

46. Nah, this guy is seriously bent over this.

It's had a profound, emotional effect on he and other Hillary Supporters.

[MADem]

5. He is NOT going to the VATICAN! He's going to "Vatican City."

Which is situated within Rome. The Pontifical Academy is not in "The Vatican" as we know it--where ST. Peter's basilica is, where the Papal apartments are, where the Sistine Chapel is, etc.

It's located in an old (very old) vacation home of one of the Popes--a fancy villa, very nice, but unrecognizable to TV audiences as anything approaching "The Vatican."

The objection by the President of the Academy was to the politicization of the event, and I can't say as I blame her. Maybe Sarono thought he was having Frank's back against the US Republicans (re: Kim Davis) but in actual fact what he is doing is subverting the Democratic process, and that is why Archer is pissed off. She understands primaries--Sarono apparently does not.

[MBS]

16. " " " " " n/t

[Fumesucker]

6. Your concern for Bernie's campaign is touching but hardly necessary

What did Bernie do at Liberty University?

I suspect he will do something similar at the Vatican. Culturally Jewish agnostic(ish) in politics he probably has a good handle on how to talk to people of differing faiths and no faith at all about religion.

Chill out, meditate, Bernie will be OK.

[whatchamacallit]

8. We'll be sure to pass along the recommendations of those

who, in all honesty, don't give a rat's ass about the issues they temporarily champion.

[karynnj]

9. The conference is not on abortion or LGBT rights, it is on income inequality - something that

is close to Bernie's heart.

I assume you would like him to do what you recommend -- it would be be consider beyond rude by most Catholics. Nor would that completely damaging to his campaign chances effort be anything like what HRC did -- which, though controversial to some was as much HRC's issue as income inequality is Bernie's.

[Sheepshank]

26. bernie has a penchant to bring every single topic around to income inequality.

How is unequal treatment and suppression of women's rights not tied to income inequality?

[karynnj]

30. I suggest you get HRC to demand that Bernie talk to the Vatican conference about abortion and LGBT

I will take YOUR suggestion that Bernie do this seriously if HRC PERSONALLY demanded that these extraneous issues be brought up at a conference in Vatican City.

The facts are that she won't - because it is a terrible idea .... and he won't.

[bettyellen]

32. Yes- the very reasons babies and women top our poverty stats. But those are "identity" politics...

Or so I have been told.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. The conference in China was about Women.

This one is about billionaires, climate change, and income inequality.

Did she bring up women's rights in her CYA speech about her vote for the Iraqi slaughter?

[Ken Burch]

11. Bernie has proved he cares just as much about social issues as HRC.

The notion he didn't was never more than your campaign's propaganda.

And there is no "Popegate". Getting invited by the Vatican is exactly the same as getting invited by the Pope and anyone getting invited to a Vatican conference would assume they'd be meeting with the Pope.

[bettyellen]

38. Yeah, nope. My aunt Betty went to conferences (on economic issues) for years @ the vatican

and the popes never attended any of them, now were expected too. the times she did get an audience with him were really entirely about that- him giving an audience to people. the pope doesn't go to all the meetings and conferences.

[jmg257]

12. Won't matter what he talks about. Compared to the obvious pimping at the CLooney dinner, it'll

be a big plus for Sanders.

Oops - make that dinnerS - I forgot she has two that weekend.

[B Calm]

13. Have you heard about Bill Clinton pointing and wagging his finger at the BLM movement?

[Bobbie Jo]

14. The Vatican is the ultimate oligarchy.

[Surya Gayatri]

20. But, that's ONE oligarchy Sanders is willing to frequent and even curry favor with...ironic, no?

[Sheepshank]

15. I honestly don't think Bernie is able to make lemonade out of these lemons

He's simple not capable, and listening to his advisors it's what's put him here in the first place, so they are no help.

[riderinthestorm]

21. The optics are just eating you up eh? Hillary at a $350k/plate, 1%er fundraiser with celebrities

Bernie at a conference on global inequality. ..

[MADem]

27. ...overseen by an angry president who believes he is attempting to politicize her academic

effort that she has spent the better part of the year putting together.


And the Pope? He's heading to Lesbos on the 16th, so it's questionable how much time he'll have to devote to all the attendees at this conference.

[riderinthestorm]

31. You too?

Lol!

[MADem]

39. You watch--this is not gonna end well.

Pope doesn't like to be blindsided, and he doesn't care if it's from the left or the right. The man will not be used. A bishop's head rolled over that Kim Davis "audience."

And the Pope is going to be in Greece on the 16th to highlight the plight of refugees.

I'm sure Lady Archer is delighted that her years' worth of planning has been overshadowed by politics. She's extremely protective of the Pontiff, so I think there will be more to behold before this is done.

[riderinthestorm]

67. He's got 2 powerful advocates going in

The chancellor, a Francis insider,.and Jeffrey Sachs.

He's got a long history in South and Central America so you can assume he's already backed by Morales and Correa.

There's only 30 people attending.

So yeah, we gamble. I like Bernie’s odds here though.

If ya don't take the big chance, ya lose. I'm betting on Bernie.

I've been in horse deals with this many involved. Bernie’s sitting in the cat seat here... win win. He only has to show up in Rome and he wins.

The optics versus Hillary’s Clooney fundraiser?

Priceless!

[MADem]

68. If you think the pics of him with Morales and Correa are going to "read" well to a US audience,

I will have what you are smoking. The jokes write themselves.

It pushes him over to the fringe and off the cliff, frankly.

He's not on the agenda to speak, he is a conference participant. If he tries to speak over the head of Dame Margaret, or obscure her agenda, she'll have something to say, I'm quite sure.

Also, Sanders stomped ALL over Pope Francis's Amoris Laetitia announcement--and I rather doubt that was a smooth move. I don't think Sanders a) COORDINATED appropriately or b) THOUGHT THROUGH what he's doing. And speaking of Amoris Laetitia, that document stuffs the gay folk under the bus YET AGAIN, so the whole POPE BEING MEAN TO GAY PEOPLE gambit is in play--and here's the Bern, "hanging with Mr. Bigot." One step forward. TWO steps back.

I will say this as someone who lived in Italy for nearly a decade--it's damp as hell in April. He'd better wear thick soles on his shoes, warm socks and good drawers and scanties under his suit--because it's damp and cold indoors.

This is not going to be his "Obama in Berlin" moment. No matter how much cheering and feigned enthusiasm Team Bernie tries to muster, this isn't going to make the sale. American Catholics are NOT stupid--they've been playing the "cafeteria" game for years and they are RICH. The Pope is (slowly, painfully, glacially) bending his arc to THEM--not the other way around. Why? HE NEEDS THEIR CASH to keep his enterprise afloat.

It's a tough dance Francis has to do, between the arch-conservative curates, snarling and scolding, and the less judgmental PWM (people with money), and, given the constraints of his age, his beliefs, his prejudices, etc, he's probably the Best Guy available to shepherd his church through this point in time and maybe even strengthen it, but let's be quite clear--many, many American Catholics won't suddenly say "Oh, Berrrnie went to a symposium at the Pontifical Academy, that must mean that FRANCIS LOVES HIM!"

Further, and this point cannot be overstated--the people that buy off on EVERY tenet of the Roman Catholic church are REPUBLICANS. The Cafeteria Catholics (who favor birth control, choice, marriage equality) could go either way, but I'll bet the ones that favor women in the priesthood would break towards Clinton. And the older they get (most older Catholics are female) the more likely -- if they're Democrats -- they'll break towards Clinton.

Bernie may find a few fans in the Youth Catholic crew--but they're not a critical mass, and they were probably with him anyway.

I think he's wasting his time. This ain't a game changer.

[Vinca]

24. Bernie being invited to the Vatican conference has really gotten under your skin, hasn't it?

All you're doing with your continued denigration of something that is an honor is alienating voters Hillary will need in November.

[Sheepshank]

29. Bernie lied and attempted to inflate his importance, nothing wrong with bringing attention to that.

[Vinca]

33. Oh, baloney. Lots of people use Pope and Vatican interchangeably.

He probably got the word third hand through aides. The important thing is that he has been honored with an invitation and it won't cost him $325,000 a couple to attend. But, keep it up. You're only hurting Hillary in the general by alienating Bernie people.

[Sheepshank]

34. Used interchangeable by a politician to spead a false hood. Not good nt

[Vinca]

37. I hope Hillary has supporters who encourage people to vote for her.

All you're doing is alienating voters she needs in November. Good job.

[Sheepshank]

60. By pointing out lies?

Good god, unless Bernie's faux pas are ignored and unless everyone worships at his feet, you gonna vote elsewhere?....sounds a lot like blackmail to me, and should Bernie win, you are alienating a lot of potential support for Bernie.

[MADem]

44. Bernie used to attend those Big Donor bashes, himself--until he decided to paint himself (falsely)

as someone who eschews all that.

And he's one to talk--he was responsible for The Most Expensive Senate Race in the HISTORY of VT.

Where did that money come from, that got him elected? Not "little people." From Big Donor money and Democratic Senate Election PACS--and some of it he got from Hillary Clinton's SUPERPAC.

How do you spell HYPOCRISY?

So many of "Bernie's people" have gotten so ugly they're not going to support Hillary anyway.

I saw this today, from one of "Bernie's people"--and there were no words for the disgust I felt:



When Sanders isn't nominated, that guy is voting Trump.

[Vinca]

47. Hillary must appreciate your efforts to alienate her November voting base. Great job.

[Sheepshank]

61. Your threats are sounding extremely sill right now

Should he win the nomination, Telling people to ignore the truths and keep quiet and worship at his feet, is a sure fire way to turn off supporters should he need them for future elections.

[Vinca]

62. Bernie is 74. How many future presidential elections do you suppose he will have?

I don't know what you're taking as a threat. I'm just stating the obvious. It's clear Hillary has the numbers and will most likely be the nominee and it's also clear her supporters are doing their best to alienate voters she will require to win the general election.

[Sheepshank]

64. Clearly you have threatened several times on this thread....kiss Bernie's butt or else.

Not going to do it. You and your ilk will find offense any and everywhere.

[Vinca]

65. I think you're losing it. Really. I've been urging people to lay off Bernie so Bernie

supporters will end up voting for the Democrat in November. You seem hell bent on pissing them off so they stay home and that will give us President Trump. I object to your accusation that I'm somehow threatening you. You shouldn't make stuff like that up.

[Vinca]

48. I also need to add a note about that "most expensive Senate race in VT."

He went up against a very wealthy man who thought he could buy his way into the Senate. Vermont voters - Democrats and Republicans alike - disabused him of that notion.

[JonLeibowitz]

53. Yeah..."He was responsible" -- what would they have him do?

He caucuses with the Democrats, so these supposed Democrats are suggesting they would like Tarrant over Sanders.

I guess it does make sense, they hate progressives.

[MADem]

69. The point that wooshes over everyone's head is that it's DEMOCRATS who fundraised like hell

all year who shoved tens of thousands of dollars at Sanders .... so that he could have that seat.

If you look at his PAC donations under "single issue" donations, you'll see he relied on Senate Dems, to include HILLPAC--so saying "they hate progressives" is a pretty rotten comment to make.

I really think, next time around, maybe they ought to do to him what he wanted to do to Obama--primary him. And, assuming he wins, let him get out his little list and demand twenty seven bucks from all his acolytes, and do it on his own, without any help. Seeing as "they hate progressives" and he's said some pretty shitty things about them down the years.

With the GOP in disarray, a primary challenge by, say, Shumlin, might correct his attitude. Shumlin needs the experience running for the Senate, anyway--it's likely his next goal, and since Leahy ain't leaving yet, a practice run wouldn't hurt.

It also might teach Sanders that the shoe hurts like hell on the other foot, and we either hang together, or we hang separately. He needs to learn how to disagree without being so damned disagreeable.

[MADem]

57. And his message got out thanks to the good offices of a number of SENATE SUPER PACS.

Not the least of which was HILLPAC.

He wasn't counting on $27 donations to beat that opponent.

[Vinca]

63. It's amazing the absolute babble that continues nonstop on this site.

Nobody gives a shit about an old Senate election in Vermont or who funded it. Just cut to the chase with your message: Bernie bad, Hillary good. Keep alienating Hillary voters and President Trump will thank you.

[MADem]

66. Well they should, if the guy whining about SUPERPACS benefitted from them and that's HOW he got his

doggone seat!!!

And I rather doubt you "give a shit" (your term) about "Hillary voters" being alienated or not.

For the record, Hillary voters don't appreciate rank hypocrisy--just like most people.

"Hillary voters" aren't going to vote for Trump, so no need for you to fret about that.

They're going to vote for HILLARY.


In NOVEMBER.

#FeelTheMath

[beam me up scottie]

51. Aw, this really bothers you, doesn't it? My condolences.

[2pooped2pop]

28. he invited himself

He said the pope invited him. He lied.
He shouldn't go. It's stupid for him to go.
He should use this as his own soapbox. Really let the Vatican have it!

Any others? Jealousy is kind of ugly now ain't it?

Hillary wasn't invited. The Vatican turned down her invite.

Now those are facts, and they are funny as fuck.

[rachacha]

35. Courage? Hillary is all about optics, Bernie is the real deal.

It wasn't so long ago that Hillary wrote this "courageous" email in support of LGBT families:

Slate: Hillary Clinton’s Email About Gay Parents Should Seriously Trouble Her LGBT Supporters

In late 2010, the State Department made an exceedingly innocuous change to U.S. passport application forms. Instead of listing “Mother” and “Father,” these forms would now list “Parent 1” and “Parent 2.” The change, the department declared, was “in recognition of different types of families”—namely, families with same-sex parents.

Then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was furious. In a recently released email, Clinton proclaimed that she would not defend the decision, “which I disagree w and knew nothing about, in front of this Congress.” She then wrote that she “could live w letting people in nontraditional families choose another descriptor so long as we retained the presumption of mother and father.” Failure to act immediately, she fretted, would lead to “a huge Fox-generated media storm led by Palin et al.” (The department quickly reversed the decision, apparently appeasing the secretary.)

[nichomachus]

36. No, it's only Hillary who screams and yells at people

When they ask unconfortable questions.

Unlike the Clintons, Bernie can act civilly.

[Betty Karlson]

40. Is this Clinton's camp's way of trying to salvage anything at all from that non-troversy of theirs?

plain pathetic, and beyond straw-clutching.

[frylock]

45. I'm sure he'll take this under advisement, Dan.

[beam me up scottie]

50. Courage? Like Hillary showed when she adamantly opposed marriage equality?

Or when she said she supports a ban on late term abortions?

I find all of this newfound "concern" for our rights with regards to the Church more than a little suspect.

How many times have you called out the pope and the Vatican for their homophobic and misogynistic policies before you found out Bernie was speaking there?

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. Come here, you need a hug

[DrDan]

55. you are assuming he has been given a speaking part

[AgingAmerican]

58. There is no Popegate

Just apoplectic jealous bizarre behavior by Clinton partisans.

[SHRED]

59. Hillary's Honduras Regime

Hillary has a terrible human rights and environmental record there.


The Clinton-Backed Honduran Regime Is Picking Off Indigenous Leaders

http://www.thenation.com/article/the-clinton-backed-honduran-regime-is-picking-off-indigenous-leaders/