2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumCompare: Bernie's Speech on Panama Deal vs Hillary's Released Statement
When Clinton pushed Obama to sign the Panama deal, the critics warned that Panama is a tax haven and this deal would open the flood gates for stashing off-shore money. Below are the statements from each candidate at the time.
WORDS MATTER. FACTS MATTER.
This is Bernie's speech against it:
Panama's entire annual economic output is only $26.7 billion a year, or about two-tenths of one percent of the U.S. economy. No-one can legitimately make the claim that approving this free trade agreement will significantly increase American jobs.
Then, why would we be considering a stand-alone free trade agreement with this country?
Well, it turns out that Panama is a world leader when it comes to allowing wealthy Americans and large corporations to evade U.S. taxes by stashing their cash in off-shore tax havens. And, the Panama Free Trade Agreement would make this bad situation much worse.
Each and every year, the wealthy and large corporations evade $100 billion in U.S. taxes through abusive and illegal offshore tax havens in Panama and other countries.
According to Citizens for Tax Justice, "A tax haven . . . has one of three characteristics: It has no income tax or a very low-rate income tax; it has bank secrecy laws; and it has a history of non-cooperation with other countries on exchanging information about tax matters. Panama has all three of those. ... They're probably the worst."
Mr. President, the trade agreement with Panama would effectively bar the U.S. from cracking down on illegal and abusive offshore tax havens in Panama. In fact, combating tax haven abuse in Panama would be a violation of this free trade agreement, exposing the U.S. to fines from international authorities.
In 2008, the Government Accountability Office said that 17 of the 100 largest American companies were operating a total of 42 subsidiaries in Panama. This free trade agreement would make it easier for the wealthy and large corporations to avoid paying U.S. taxes and it must be defeated. At a time when we have a record-breaking $14.7 trillion national debt and an unsustainable federal deficit, the last thing that we should be doing is making it easier for the wealthiest people and most profitable corporations in this country to avoid paying their fair share in taxes by setting-up offshore tax havens in Panama.
Adding insult to injury, Mr. President, the Panama FTA would require the United States to waive Buy America requirements for procurement bids from thousands of foreign firms, including many Chinese firms, incorporated in this major tax haven. That may make sense to China, it does not make sense to me.
Finally, Panama is also listed by the State Department as a major venue for Mexican and Colombian drug cartel money laundering. Should we be rewarding this country with a free trade agreement? I think the answer should be a resounding no.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/senate-speech-by-sen-bernie-sanders-on-unfettered-free-trade
There is much more in Bernie's speech about how these trade deals end up costing American jobs and hurting the American people.
Hillary's released statement for it:
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)FourScore
(9,704 posts)the Iraq War, the trade deals, the Panama pact...every time!
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Which is over a trillion and the CFMA which played heavy in the financial crisis, yea, forward thinking.
GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)When it appears Clinton did something wrong you just pivot to some talking point rather than address the issue...
Was Clinton wrong in supporting the Panama free trade deal? Yes or No, only please.
Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)For the Hillary camp. When they are faced with factual criticisms of Hillary, they first try to deflect with a non sequitur to show that Sanders did something wrong too.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Hit on anything but the actual topic.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)#2, so perhaps you have responded to that post about who needs to stick to the subject.
GeorgiaPeanuts
(2,353 posts)So does that mean you think Hillary Clinton's support of the Panama Free Trade Deal is not a bad mark on her judgement? Sounds like corporations and wealthy elite using their influence to push trade deals allowing them to cheat their taxes isn't a big deal to you given how dismissive you were.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)I prefer the Hillary comment and it is more presidential. Sanders went off on a different rail.
frylock
(34,825 posts)yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)astrophuss42
(290 posts)beedle
(1,235 posts)... once again we see the vast difference between "experience" and "wisdom".
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)beedle
(1,235 posts)... if she does, she uses both of them for evil.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)beedle
(1,235 posts)earthside
(6,960 posts)HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)HRC is not a leader but a paid lackey for special interests
Bernie rightly called out the ramifications to the normal working person
AND, that's glaring difference between your candidate and Bernie, LEADERSHIP to correctly call out bad legislation that adversely imparts the larger working population (majority) in this nation
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)The D rating, big failure, never should have made the votes which allowed a D rating.
HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)Let's cover more than just one policy element shall we, let's compare who's consistent and who isn't
Care to take me up on a wager as to which candidate is and always has been the most consistent on their policies throughout their political career?
Again, LEADERSHIP... Bernie is, HRC is not
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)HumanityExperiment
(1,442 posts)interesting pivot attempt, is that it? you hang your hat on one issue?
obviously #whichhillary is resonating so tell me... shall we break down all the policies over time that both DEM candidates have held, who's been consistent and who hasn't?
djean111
(14,255 posts)And anyone who keeps bleating that Bernie doesn't understand all this stuff can kiss my patootie.
He understands it.
Hillary is betting that we don't. The duplicity is stunning. Not surprising, but stunning.
KPN
(15,643 posts)will be ensnared in this?
beedle
(1,235 posts)there's going to be a big list of tax cheaters that have a bigger chance of showing up on big money donor lists ... ie: Clinton's bundler's (if the American press actually releases the US names) or more likely the foreign donors of the Clinton Foundation.
#releasethetaxcheaterlist
arcane1
(38,613 posts)" No-one can legitimately make the claim that approving this free trade agreement will significantly increase American jobs."
Exactly.
But they can LIE to our faces and pretend it will increase jobs.
I have a choice between the one who told us the truth, and the one who (once again) lied to our faces.
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)Excluding cash hidden in Panama bank accounts, I mean.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)So much crap, so little toilet paper. They have to run out of Charmin sooner or later.
frylock
(34,825 posts)PufPuf23
(8,774 posts)Clinton is a tool of manipulative wealth.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)So if you don't want more "free" market trade deals vote for Bernie. If you love "free" market trade deals vote for Hillary. It's that simple.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)By now you've probably heard of the Panama Papers, the name bestowed on a massive database leaked from a law firm based in Panama. The leaked documents show that the company, Mossack Fonseca, helps its clients set up offshore shell companies, some of which are allegedly linked to crime.
2banon
(7,321 posts)The moment I first saw reports on the "Panama Papers" data leak posted here on DU, I've been trying to understand what's this all about. (surprise, surprise, I never heard about Bernie's speech in 2011 or ever until now.
Thank you Four Score and others for attempting to inform us on this matter as thoroughly as you're able.
But this matter begs the question, why the "News" is all over this story as it relates to Iceland and other countries and figures.. But Not ONE WORD as related to the Clinton Foundation, board of directors etc.
NOT A WORD so far, as if this hour 7:55 am April 5, 2016.
Not a word has been mentioned so far. I'm waiting for the media to report and name American actors, banks and buisnessess involved in this.
FourScore
(9,704 posts)I believe the American release is next. The question for me is when.
earthside
(6,960 posts)... of tax evaders in later leaks/documents, will anyone be surprised?
Dem2
(8,168 posts)I have little idea what Hillary thinks on this, just what she was required to say in support of her boss. She had previously opposed the Panama deal, but I can't find much of anything else on this topic. Bernie gets full credit for seeing the possible abuse and speaking out on it.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Which proves that JUDGEMENT is the higher quality over EXPERIENCE. Hey, Cheney has great experience.
How is it that people think Hillary is the best candidate when she seems to get it WRONG every time? Puzzling.
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)Such a simple concept to invest in America, or defend the people who robbed this country.
Meanwhile we get food stamps cut, we're told we can't afford social security and our infrastructure is ponies and unicorns.
No y'all don't get how many people have been SCREWED by neo cons and we want them OUT!
azmom
(5,208 posts)Once again.