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FourScore

(9,704 posts)
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:05 AM Apr 2016

Compare: Bernie's Speech on Panama Deal vs Hillary's Released Statement

When Clinton pushed Obama to sign the Panama deal, the critics warned that Panama is a tax haven and this deal would open the flood gates for stashing off-shore money. Below are the statements from each candidate at the time.

WORDS MATTER. FACTS MATTER.

This is Bernie's speech against it:

Finally, Mr. President, let's talk about the Panama Free Trade Agreement.

Panama's entire annual economic output is only $26.7 billion a year, or about two-tenths of one percent of the U.S. economy. No-one can legitimately make the claim that approving this free trade agreement will significantly increase American jobs.

Then, why would we be considering a stand-alone free trade agreement with this country?

Well, it turns out that Panama is a world leader when it comes to allowing wealthy Americans and large corporations to evade U.S. taxes by stashing their cash in off-shore tax havens. And, the Panama Free Trade Agreement would make this bad situation much worse.

Each and every year, the wealthy and large corporations evade $100 billion in U.S. taxes through abusive and illegal offshore tax havens in Panama and other countries.

According to Citizens for Tax Justice, "A tax haven . . . has one of three characteristics: It has no income tax or a very low-rate income tax; it has bank secrecy laws; and it has a history of non-cooperation with other countries on exchanging information about tax matters. Panama has all three of those. ... They're probably the worst."

Mr. President, the trade agreement with Panama would effectively bar the U.S. from cracking down on illegal and abusive offshore tax havens in Panama. In fact, combating tax haven abuse in Panama would be a violation of this free trade agreement, exposing the U.S. to fines from international authorities.

In 2008, the Government Accountability Office said that 17 of the 100 largest American companies were operating a total of 42 subsidiaries in Panama. This free trade agreement would make it easier for the wealthy and large corporations to avoid paying U.S. taxes and it must be defeated. At a time when we have a record-breaking $14.7 trillion national debt and an unsustainable federal deficit, the last thing that we should be doing is making it easier for the wealthiest people and most profitable corporations in this country to avoid paying their fair share in taxes by setting-up offshore tax havens in Panama.

Adding insult to injury, Mr. President, the Panama FTA would require the United States to waive Buy America requirements for procurement bids from thousands of foreign firms, including many Chinese firms, incorporated in this major tax haven. That may make sense to China, it does not make sense to me.

Finally, Panama is also listed by the State Department as a major venue for Mexican and Colombian drug cartel money laundering. Should we be rewarding this country with a free trade agreement? I think the answer should be a resounding no.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/senate-speech-by-sen-bernie-sanders-on-unfettered-free-trade


There is much more in Bernie's speech about how these trade deals end up costing American jobs and hurting the American people.

Hillary's released statement for it:



42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Compare: Bernie's Speech on Panama Deal vs Hillary's Released Statement (Original Post) FourScore Apr 2016 OP
And? Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #1
It just shows, time and time again that Bernie is more forward thinking. FourScore Apr 2016 #2
Forward thinking like an agenda which will cost trillions and the cost overrun F-35 program Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #12
It would be nice if you would stick to the topic at hand... GeorgiaPeanuts Apr 2016 #21
That is a key strategy... Else You Are Mad Apr 2016 #26
Yep. Math! Delegates! Two million votes!!1 frylock Apr 2016 #30
Maybe following the thread would provide added information, I replied to post Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #35
I see that you never gave an opinion other than a dismissive, "and?" GeorgiaPeanuts Apr 2016 #36
I am not obligated to give you a response, actually the two comments speaks for themselves, Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #38
What, precisely, is Bernie's culpability in the F-35 program? frylock Apr 2016 #29
+10000 amborin Apr 2016 #41
Ruh roh yourpaljoey Apr 2016 #3
Thinking about .......? astrophuss42 Apr 2016 #4
And ... beedle Apr 2016 #7
Hillary has both, thank you very much. Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #14
Maybe, but ... beedle Apr 2016 #16
Evil like the evil I see on DU. Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #18
I have no idea what you imagine you are seeing beedle Apr 2016 #24
Apparently not. n/t earthside Apr 2016 #27
Leadership... HumanityExperiment Apr 2016 #8
Special interest, like the NRA, they have influenced Sanders on many votes. Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #17
#whichHillary... HumanityExperiment Apr 2016 #19
Diversion did not work, Sanders still has his voting record influenced by the NRA. Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #39
#whichhillary... HumanityExperiment Apr 2016 #40
She is sickening. djean111 Apr 2016 #5
I wonder how many Board members of Third Way think tank (oxymoron) KPN Apr 2016 #6
There's a chance, but beedle Apr 2016 #13
And there is the money quote, right here: arcane1 Apr 2016 #9
Does Hillary have any recent figures on U.S. exports into Panama? BernieforPres2016 Apr 2016 #10
How many passes are her supporters going to give her? pinebox Apr 2016 #11
As many as it takes. frylock Apr 2016 #31
Hillary Clinton laughs and lies to her own supporters. PufPuf23 Apr 2016 #15
It's clear that Bernie will not approve more free trade agreements while Hillary loves all of them. fasttense Apr 2016 #20
OH MY GOD-- the contrast is freaking amazing Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #22
the context is super important, in case anyone isn't sure Fast Walker 52 Apr 2016 #23
Bernie's analysis was Spot on, this statement made in 2011 2banon Apr 2016 #25
They are releasing the information in batches. FourScore Apr 2016 #32
If the Clinton's show up on the lists ... earthside Apr 2016 #28
Her boiler-plate statement says nothing Dem2 Apr 2016 #33
Again and again, on issue after issue .. . . BERNIE gets it right and Hillary got it wrong. pdsimdars Apr 2016 #34
K&R felix_numinous Apr 2016 #37
Hillary on the wrong side of history azmom Apr 2016 #42

FourScore

(9,704 posts)
2. It just shows, time and time again that Bernie is more forward thinking.
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:12 AM
Apr 2016

the Iraq War, the trade deals, the Panama pact...every time!

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
12. Forward thinking like an agenda which will cost trillions and the cost overrun F-35 program
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:28 AM
Apr 2016

Which is over a trillion and the CFMA which played heavy in the financial crisis, yea, forward thinking.

 

GeorgiaPeanuts

(2,353 posts)
21. It would be nice if you would stick to the topic at hand...
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:41 AM
Apr 2016

When it appears Clinton did something wrong you just pivot to some talking point rather than address the issue...

Was Clinton wrong in supporting the Panama free trade deal? Yes or No, only please.

Else You Are Mad

(3,040 posts)
26. That is a key strategy...
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 11:07 AM
Apr 2016

For the Hillary camp. When they are faced with factual criticisms of Hillary, they first try to deflect with a non sequitur to show that Sanders did something wrong too.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
35. Maybe following the thread would provide added information, I replied to post
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 12:20 PM
Apr 2016

#2, so perhaps you have responded to that post about who needs to stick to the subject.

 

GeorgiaPeanuts

(2,353 posts)
36. I see that you never gave an opinion other than a dismissive, "and?"
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 12:28 PM
Apr 2016

So does that mean you think Hillary Clinton's support of the Panama Free Trade Deal is not a bad mark on her judgement? Sounds like corporations and wealthy elite using their influence to push trade deals allowing them to cheat their taxes isn't a big deal to you given how dismissive you were.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
38. I am not obligated to give you a response, actually the two comments speaks for themselves,
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 05:59 PM
Apr 2016

I prefer the Hillary comment and it is more presidential. Sanders went off on a different rail.

 

HumanityExperiment

(1,442 posts)
8. Leadership...
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:24 AM
Apr 2016

HRC is not a leader but a paid lackey for special interests

Bernie rightly called out the ramifications to the normal working person

AND, that's glaring difference between your candidate and Bernie, LEADERSHIP to correctly call out bad legislation that adversely imparts the larger working population (majority) in this nation

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
17. Special interest, like the NRA, they have influenced Sanders on many votes.
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:32 AM
Apr 2016

The D rating, big failure, never should have made the votes which allowed a D rating.

 

HumanityExperiment

(1,442 posts)
19. #whichHillary...
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:35 AM
Apr 2016



Let's cover more than just one policy element shall we, let's compare who's consistent and who isn't

Care to take me up on a wager as to which candidate is and always has been the most consistent on their policies throughout their political career?

Again, LEADERSHIP... Bernie is, HRC is not
 

HumanityExperiment

(1,442 posts)
40. #whichhillary...
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 07:20 PM
Apr 2016

interesting pivot attempt, is that it? you hang your hat on one issue?

obviously #whichhillary is resonating so tell me... shall we break down all the policies over time that both DEM candidates have held, who's been consistent and who hasn't?


 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
5. She is sickening.
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:14 AM
Apr 2016

And anyone who keeps bleating that Bernie doesn't understand all this stuff can kiss my patootie.

He understands it.

Hillary is betting that we don't. The duplicity is stunning. Not surprising, but stunning.

 

beedle

(1,235 posts)
13. There's a chance, but
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:29 AM
Apr 2016

there's going to be a big list of tax cheaters that have a bigger chance of showing up on big money donor lists ... ie: Clinton's bundler's (if the American press actually releases the US names) or more likely the foreign donors of the Clinton Foundation.

#releasethetaxcheaterlist

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
9. And there is the money quote, right here:
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:25 AM
Apr 2016

" No-one can legitimately make the claim that approving this free trade agreement will significantly increase American jobs."

Exactly.

But they can LIE to our faces and pretend it will increase jobs.

I have a choice between the one who told us the truth, and the one who (once again) lied to our faces.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
10. Does Hillary have any recent figures on U.S. exports into Panama?
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:25 AM
Apr 2016

Excluding cash hidden in Panama bank accounts, I mean.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
11. How many passes are her supporters going to give her?
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:25 AM
Apr 2016

So much crap, so little toilet paper. They have to run out of Charmin sooner or later.

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
20. It's clear that Bernie will not approve more free trade agreements while Hillary loves all of them.
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:36 AM
Apr 2016

So if you don't want more "free" market trade deals vote for Bernie. If you love "free" market trade deals vote for Hillary. It's that simple.

 

Fast Walker 52

(7,723 posts)
23. the context is super important, in case anyone isn't sure
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:44 AM
Apr 2016
http://www.pri.org/stories/2016-04-04/why-are-panama-papers-big-deal
By now you've probably heard of the “Panama Papers,” the name bestowed on a massive database leaked from a law firm based in Panama. The leaked documents show that the company, Mossack Fonseca, helps its clients set up offshore shell companies, some of which are allegedly linked to crime.
 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
25. Bernie's analysis was Spot on, this statement made in 2011
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 10:58 AM
Apr 2016

The moment I first saw reports on the "Panama Papers" data leak posted here on DU, I've been trying to understand what's this all about. (surprise, surprise, I never heard about Bernie's speech in 2011 or ever until now.

Thank you Four Score and others for attempting to inform us on this matter as thoroughly as you're able.

But this matter begs the question, why the "News" is all over this story as it relates to Iceland and other countries and figures.. But Not ONE WORD as related to the Clinton Foundation, board of directors etc.

NOT A WORD so far, as if this hour 7:55 am April 5, 2016.

Not a word has been mentioned so far. I'm waiting for the media to report and name American actors, banks and buisnessess involved in this.



FourScore

(9,704 posts)
32. They are releasing the information in batches.
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 11:57 AM
Apr 2016

I believe the American release is next. The question for me is when.

earthside

(6,960 posts)
28. If the Clinton's show up on the lists ...
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 11:18 AM
Apr 2016

... of tax evaders in later leaks/documents, will anyone be surprised?

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
33. Her boiler-plate statement says nothing
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 11:57 AM
Apr 2016

I have little idea what Hillary thinks on this, just what she was required to say in support of her boss. She had previously opposed the Panama deal, but I can't find much of anything else on this topic. Bernie gets full credit for seeing the possible abuse and speaking out on it.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
34. Again and again, on issue after issue .. . . BERNIE gets it right and Hillary got it wrong.
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 12:00 PM
Apr 2016

Which proves that JUDGEMENT is the higher quality over EXPERIENCE. Hey, Cheney has great experience.
How is it that people think Hillary is the best candidate when she seems to get it WRONG every time? Puzzling.

felix_numinous

(5,198 posts)
37. K&R
Tue Apr 5, 2016, 05:48 PM
Apr 2016

Such a simple concept to invest in America, or defend the people who robbed this country.

Meanwhile we get food stamps cut, we're told we can't afford social security and our infrastructure is ponies and unicorns.

No y'all don't get how many people have been SCREWED by neo cons and we want them OUT!


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