Bernie Sanders is right: Make public colleges tuition-free

[think]

Bernie Sanders is right: Make public colleges tuition-free

By Sara Goldrick-Rab - Today 9:39 AM

Remember when college was optional? Fifty years ago, if you finished high school and went to work, it was possible to make a living and have a decent life. If you wanted to attend college but couldn't afford it, grants and scholarships helped with the costs. If you qualified, the federal Pell Grant covered more than 75% of the costs of attending a public university for a year. If you didn't, working while in college helped make ends meet.

Those days are over. Targeting financial aid to some people has proved ineffective at making college affordable for the millions of Americans who are now required to attend. It's near impossible to maintain a middle-class life without college, yet the Pell Grant now covers barely one-third of the cost a year at a public university. And most Americans can't get a Pell Grant because they are "too rich," even though they have to shell out at least 25% of their annual income to pay for an education at a public university. Other people can't get a Pell Grant because they can't complete the required application. Even a community college is so expensive that after all grants and scholarships, students from low-income families still have to work or borrow to afford it.

This is why Bernie Sanders has a plan that emphasizes the importance of making public higher education affordable to everyone, period. His approach goes "big" because it's what our economy needs: strong incentives for everyone to work hard, get educated, and commit to a better tomorrow. It focuses on the public sector because government can hold schools accountable for high-quality outcomes, and encourage real competition for private institutions that shortchange students.

~Snip~

Sara Goldrick-Rab is professor of educational policy studies at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and author of "Paying the Price: College Costs, Financial Aid, and the Betrayal of the American dream" coming in September from University of Chicago.

Read more:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/bernie-sanders-is-right-make-public-colleges-tuition-free-b99699614z1--374488531.html

[Trust Buster]

1. Nothing is free. Making others pay their tuition while they pay nothing is fundamentally unjust.

[Live and Learn]

5. So you are against public education altogether?

Do you think it is unjust that first graders are paying nothing? I guess you feel those free lunches some kids get are unjust too, right?

Me, I view it as an investment in our future that will benefit society over time. Nothing unjust about it.

[CalvinballPro]

8. My education mattered to me because I earned it, two courses per semester at a time.

I worked a full-time job and took night classes to get my degrees, an Associates and a Bachelors. Nothing was handed to me, or subsidized. Maybe that's why I took every class seriously and am proud of my accomplishment today.

And Sanders still isn't honest about GOP governors being a major factor in his public college financing plan. Do his supporters really think the guy in NC who just signed the religious discrimination bill is going to apply federal spending for public education fairly? If he distributes it at all!

[Trust Buster]

10. He's just pandering to college students. He knows that the political support doesn't exist.

I too, worked may way to an undergraduate degree. Sanders makes hard work sound like a bad characteristic. The problem in Russia and Cuba is that there's no incentive to perform.

[ProfessorPlum]

23. you two boot-strappers did it in a time when it was possible

things have changed, drastically, from when someone could finance their own education through summer jobs and part time jobs, etc.

[Trust Buster]

28. Actually I worked full time and went to night school for 6 years to earn my undergraduate degree.

Going to the opposite extreme is not feasible, politically or financially. The President has a good 2 year plan for community colleges. Those wanting a 4 year degree can use it as a good spring board and those that don't want a 4 year degree can use it to learn high tech manufacturing skills. But even that has been turned down by Republicans.

[ProfessorPlum]

32. How lucky for you that you had a full time job

and made enough to support your living expenses, tuition, and books.

Not everyone has this.

[ProfessorPlum]

31. Also "Sanders makes hard work sound like a bad characteristic"

WTF

People earning a college degree are also working - reading, going to classes, labs, writing, thinking, debating, talking. And the costs of doing so are way out of reach for the vast majority of them, even with jobs.

Compare wages today and college costs today with those of 30 years ago. It has been put out of reach.

[think]

33. Going all in on the communist thing aren't you? And doing so while ignoring soaring college costs

Last edited Mon Apr 4, 2016, 01:35 PM - Edit history (1)

Why does a college degree cost so much?

In February 1970, with the school's storied quadrangle by the Charles River still in the grip of winter, Harvard University broke the bad news to students and their parents: Tuition was going up.

Their reluctant consensus raised the annual cost of attending the prestigious school in the fall of 1971 by $200—to $2,600. It was the first time since 1949 that the school, which was chartered in 1650, had boosted tuition two years in a row.

"It used to be that once in an undergraduate career tuition would increase," acting dean John T. Dunlop told The Crimson, the student newspaper. "But from now on, unless inflation is halted, there's no choice in the matter but to continue raising tuition."

More than forty years later, tuition at American colleges and universities continues to surge ahead—much faster than the inflation Dunlop cited. This fall, Harvard's annual tuition and fees (not including room and board) will set you back $45,278, more than 17 times the 1971-72 cost. If annual increases had simply tracked the inflation rate since 1971, next year's tuition would be to just $15,189.

It's not just the tuition costs at elite universities like Harvard that are outpacing the government's Consumer Price Index.

Read more:
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/16/why-college-costs-are-so-high-and-rising.html

?w=640

[CalvinballPro]

43. What do you expect from a guy who praised bread lines?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/28/when-bernie-sanders-thought-castro-and-the-sandinistas-could-teach-america-a-lesson.html

As mayor of Burlington, Sanders praised the regimes of Nicaragua and Cuba—claiming bread lines were a sign of economic health and press censorship was necessary in wartime.

[CountAllVotes]

40. Join the do it yourself club

People don't realize that some of the WWII generation didn't necessarily support sending their kids to college (like mine; Dad was a Union man and a proud Democrat indeed). That was the case in my family -- no support period. You want to go to college you say? Well, we don't go for that college crap around here I was told. Go out and get a job and get the hell out of here I was told. We will no longer support you after you graduate from high school. So yep, I did just that.

So, I bit the bullet, got the crap $2.88/hr. job and it took me 20 years to complete my college education, yes, 20 'effin years and YES, I had debt when I got out but not a lot of it. I was working three (count 'em) jobs while writing my thesis.

It was not easy and having NO support throws a working person into a real trap as being you have a history of earning money and working, you do not qualify for a lot of the aid, etc. that is out there. Pell grant? What's that? Workers need not apply I found out the hard way.

I received a State university grant while in graduate school which paid for a small portion of the tuition, but I paid for everything else.

I think going to a community college is the way to go. Get all you can from a community college and transfer the credits to a State university or college for the last two years and yes, you save a lot this way.

While my method was not expeditious, I did finish and I have my degrees to prove it for what they are worth.

Education is a valuable tool in life regardless of what happens is what I say. I have no regrets about any of it.

[sammythecat]

45. I don't have kids. Should I not have to pay school taxes?

I do, and I should.

I don't, but I should, have to pay a tax enabling good healthcare (free!!) for all American citizens.

One of the better, if not best, remedies for this country is to ensure we have a healthy and educated citizenry. A whole lot of good side benefits for all would automatically follow from those two things. And no one's lifestyle will be harmed in the process, only enhanced.

[lakeguy]

59. who do you think will be paying income tax to support society after

you retire? you want those taxes to come from bugger flippers or professionals? greedy naysayers will benefit too, even if they don't realize it.

[bigwillq]

2. It doesn't have to be free (because nothing is; someone will have to pay for it)

But it should be def more affordable.

[think]

7. Bernies' plan would be paid for by a small transaction fee on stock speculation.

How Bernie Sanders' Wall Street Tax Would Work

By Jim Zarroli - February 12, 20165:00 AM ET

As Bernie Sanders sees it, Wall Street got a big boost when U.S. taxpayers bailed out some of the largest financial institutions in 2008. Now it's time for Wall Street to return the favor.

Sanders has proposed something he calls a speculation tax, a small levy on every stock, bond or derivative sold in the United States.

The revenue would go toward free tuition at public colleges and universities and would also be used to pare down student debt and pay for work-study programs, as well as other programs, Sanders says.

While Hillary Clinton has proposed a similar tax on high-speed trading, Sanders' plan would go much further.

Read more:
http://www.npr.org/2016/02/12/466465333/sanders-favors-a-speculation-tax-on-big-wall-street-firms-what-is-that

[BernieforPres2016]

11. Free tuition doesn't mean free college

There is still room and board, books, etc.

And somebody has to pay for all the corporate welfare and tax breaks to the top 0.1% too.

[DemocracyDirect]

3. A free college tuition...

... pays for itself in the taxes paid by the recipient over a lifetime of higher earnings.

Not to mention not having to pay for social support of the recipient over a lifetime.

Not to mention the opportunity that a college educated person has to hire others who in turn also pay taxes.

We're smarter than Trust Buster's republican talking points.

[BernieforPres2016]

9. You raise great points that I think Bernie should speak more to

There is spending which produces little or no future benefits, and then there is investment. Free college tuition is an investment by society that has a payback for decades, really for generations as the effects multiply. I would add to your list that a higher percentage of people who can't afford to attend college end up incarcerated versus people who do attend college and get decent jobs afterwards. That is part of the social support cost you mention for people who can't afford to go to college.

[DemocracyDirect]

12. Yes you are right.

A similar argument for universal health care shows that when we are all covered...

... we are all healthier and pay less as an aggregate for our care.

Any other argument requires generous corporate donations, job killing burdens on employers, or just letting people die.

[BernieforPres2016]

36. I almost included universal healthcare in my comment

But Bernie was doing a good job of talking about how many people were waiting until they were extremely sick before going to the doctor in a speech in Wisconsin as I was typing my post.

At least with most conservatives I have talked with in real life and online, opposition to a single payer healthcare plan fades pretty quickly when you discuss it in economic terms. I tell conservatives that the U.S. already guarantees healthcare for everybody, because we don't allow hospitals to refuse people and let them die in the streets (nobody argues that). It's just that poor people wait until they're so sick that they have to go to the emergency room to get treatment. I ask them how stupid is it economically that somebody ends up in the emergency room when they could have been taking medication to control high blood pressure, or because they were cutting a prescription in half because they couldn't afford it. From there I compare U.S. health care costs as a percentage of GDP and per capita to countries with single payer plans and point out that the U.S. does not get more favorable outcomes for the extra money we spend. I don't think it is a hard sell when you frame it that way, versus just saying everybody should have the right to healthcare (though I agree with that).

Given that we are going to already provide healthcare to everybody in some form, why not figure out how to do in the most efficient manner by cutting out the insurance and administrative middlemen and bringing the drug companies to heel?

The same kind of economic arguments go for many of Bernie's proposals. Criminal justice reform is another one that comes to mind. You can economically justify a lot more mental health centers, drug treatment programs, etc. if it produces long term declines in the prison population and recidivism rates.

[DemocracyDirect]

37. We are on the same page.

I agree with everything you said.

It's painful that this is not more obvious to everyone.

I really feel that Bernie is our best chance for a better future and a better world.

And with friends like you we can get there.

[BernieforPres2016]

44. I have an MBA and naturally look at things from a long term cost-benefit standpoint

as well as basic decency and fairness. I think there are strong economic arguments to be made for virtually all of Bernie's proposals that are often portrayed as "free stuff, who is going to pay for it?"

In fairness to Bernie, he only can only make a speech that is so long and he covers a lot of ground. But everybody knows his stump speech by now. If I jotted down a few bullet points, I could almost give it myself. I would like to see him say in advance that particular speeches will cover a particular topic in more detail, and then go into the long term economic benefits of some of the "free stuff" proposals.

I think if our society doesn't go in the direction of the proposals Bernie has to reverse the income and wealth inequality levels that are at or near record highs, we are pretty much doomed. You can't sustain long term economic growth without a broad middle class.

[DemocracyDirect]

47. "Free stuff" is paid for by our taxes.

From an engineer here, and a future MBA when I get some time, I look at things the same way.

Fail to plan = plan to fail.

Interestingly, I've converted several Republicans over to Bernie Sanders supporters.
It's harder to convince Hillary supporters here.

I would like to see Bernie expand his message but the MSM isn't covering him.
Did you see the Israel speech anywhere on MSM?
Apparently that speech was his foreign policy speech.

[Newkularblue]

35. This ^

That boot strap bullshit is tiresome.. its like some desperately want to live under the false sense of meritocracy so they can point and say "I'm better than you!"

[Zira]

64. +10000

[stone space]

4. Pacifists and other Draft Registration Resisters don't qualify for Pell Grants and Student Loans.

We pay in cash, or we don't get a formal education.

Candidates need to tell us how we are expected to access higher education in this country.

Free college I understand, but other plans really require some explanation to the pacifist community.

One way or another, the ongoing Pacifist Purges of Higher Education initiated against us in the early 1980s needs to come to an end.

[Recursion]

6. I don't know if tuition is the right focus. Sweden has free tuition

and a higher rate of student debt than the US. Debt-free college should be the goal.

[DemocracyDirect]

14. So you are saying that if your parents are rich...

... you have no right not to ask them to pay for your education?

I guess being able to say I made it on my own is really old fashioned.

[Recursion]

15. I'm saying the goal should be debt free college education

for students and their parents, and that simply focusing on tuition doesn't get us there.

[DemocracyDirect]

18. I agree and free public college and university tuition will be debt free.

Or are you saying that Harvard degrees should be debt free also?

[Recursion]

21. Except Sweden has free tuition and higher student debt than the US

Like I just said. Free tuition doesn't mean debt free graduates; tuition isn't even usually the biggest line item.

[DemocracyDirect]

24. Okay please inform me what is the biggest line item.

I went to university and it sure was for me and tuition has gone up a lot since then.

But then I didn't have keggers every weekend.

[Recursion]

30. Well, housing was for me, personally (nt)

[NobodyHere]

16. How do they have a higher rate of debt when it is tuition free?

[Recursion]

19. Because tuition is only a small part of your expenses

You also have to live somewhere and eat food, for instance.

[DemocracyDirect]

26. Apparently only students need to eat food.

Share a room in a rental house with a buddy or go to the local college.

Are you really serious?

[Recursion]

29. People who aren't students can work full time

I don't see why this is confusing to people

[DemocracyDirect]

34. Yet people who haven't been students have a hard time finding full time employment.

I ate a lot of popcorn, boiled carrots and rice first year.

Then I got a summer job.

At $15 an hour maybe we can have a kegger or two.

[basselope]

22. *sigh*

This old debunked talking point?

The DEBT incurred by Sweedish students is not from school, but for LIVING EXPENSES, because it is more traditional for them to move out and live on their own while in college.

The debt they are incurring (which averages about 19K total at much lower interest rates) is from LIVING EXPENSES, not from college.

[Recursion]

27. Right, I'm glad somebody seems to understand this

As you rightly point out, tuition isn't the only factor driving stident debt; not even close. Debt free graduation needs to be the goal.

(Also, how is making precisely my point a "debunking", in your mind?)

[basselope]

50. *sigh*

Because your point was misleading, suggesting that their debt is higher, which it isn't.

Clinton also isn't talking about "debt free graduation", she is talking about "debt free tuition", which creates an even bigger problem, because you are going to have to start means testing people and then you run into that old situation of a person whose family makes too much money for them to qualify for that debt free tuition and they STILL have to pick up living expenses.

What you failed to understand in my response is that the reason they are graduating with "debt" (which by the way is lower than ours by several thousand dollars) is CULTURAL... they are moving out and living on their own and taking on expenses in one of the most expensive cities in the world.

In the US tuition IS the driving factor in student debt.

[Recursion]

56. Another reason I don't support Clinton

I preferred O'Malley's goal of debt-free bachelors degrees

[basselope]

57. It's unrealistic and unmanageable.

That's the problem.

To get "debt free" bachelors degrees you need means testing, which complicates matters greatly. Much like today's financial aid, it often becomes more practical for people to WAIT to go to college so they can qualify for financial aid so their families income doesn't count against them.

Free public colleges via an FTT is the easiest method to assure that it is available, with the least complications.

Nothing here is radical or new. We had free public colleges before in many cities and we had an FTT from 1918-1966.

[Art_from_Ark]

62. The most frequent salary, according to that survey

is higher in Sweden than in the US

$55,918 (Sweden) vs. $43,649 (US)

[kristopher]

13. I think, in the long term, this is the most important of his policy proposals.

It very, very effectively creates a long term force pushing us away from an economic aristocracy.
The demand for admittance to public universities will rise, resulting in a more academically competent student body. This , in turn, enhances job prospects for grades, increasing demand. Since all qualified students are admitted, the policy draws from all sectors of society and gives the poor as well as the wealthy a clear path to higher education that can be exploited most effectively by student and family participation in the educational system.
Of course the wealthy will still have advantages, but this opens a pathway that currently does not exist to create hope of upward mobility for millions of families.

And with those previously under-represented demographics come values that far better reflect the diversity of our cultural heritage, and I believe, a clearer focus on what brings to most benefit to the most people in the country.

[basselope]

17. Wait, you mean free public college like we USED TO HAVE????

It wasn't nationwide, but several cities had free public colleges for residents.

I don't even remotely understand how this is a debatable point.

[DemocracyDirect]

20. Because apparently Republican talking points are welcome here.

If you want to see a Democratic agenda look here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

[BernieforPres2016]

46. I just skimmed the Wiki entry on that

Unless I missed it, they didn't mention that Harry Truman reiterated FDR's Second Bill of Rights in a speech to Congress in September, 1945, only a few months after FDR died and Truman became President. And in November, 1945, Truman made another speech to Congress advocating universal healthcare.

These are not radical concepts.

[Dem2]

25. I like his idea

They were nearly free back 30 years ago too, not any more.

At least bring them back to levels where they were affordable - $1400/year back when I went to one.

[LAS14]

38. Public colleges are run by the states, not the federal government. nt

[think]

39. Bernie's plan would help fund them through a transaction tax on Wall St speculation.

That just makes sense...

[basselope]

53. BTW... its called an FTT

And we had one in the US from 1918-1966.

So, this is nothing radical or new.

[redstateblues]

41. I scrimped and saved so my daughter could commute to a state university

Will Bernie give me a refund?

[think]

42. Will your grand children be able to afford go to college? College costs are soaring

Last edited Mon Apr 4, 2016, 01:38 PM - Edit history (1)

?w=640

http://qz.com/301999/these-are-the-us-colleges-where-tuition-has-skyrocketed/

[seaglass]

51. Why would you show a graph of Private college increases when we are talking about Public? n/t

Tuition and Fees

Academic Year Public Four-Year
1975-76 $2,387
1980-81 $2,320
1985-86 $2,918
1990-91 $3,492
1995-96 $4,399
2000-01 $4,845
2005-06 $6,708
2010-11 $8,351
2015-16 $9,410

Tuition, Fess, Room and Board
Academic Year Public Four-Year
1975-76 $7,833
1980-81 $7,362
1985-86 $8,543
1990-91 $9,286
1995-96 $10,552
2000-01 $11,655
2005-06 $14,797
2010-11 $17,710
2015-16 $19,548


http://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/tuition-and-fees-and-room-and-board-over-time-1975-76-2015-16-selected-years

[think]

52. My mistake. Sorry. However, even your figures show public college costs soaring. /nt

[think]

55. I replaced it with this chart:

?w=640

http://qz.com/301999/these-are-the-us-colleges-where-tuition-has-skyrocketed/

[basselope]

54. No. Please try to think of others.

[MisterP]

48. "remember when college was optional?" bang-o! by making a degree

a huge profit stream colleges aggressively recruited and normalized it as a career path: now degree inflation means a master's is the old bachelor's and a bachelor's is practically a GED on the job market; the more they flood STEMs the more they scream "STEM shortage"

prisons don't just profit GEO, but the states and counties and cities--the real crowding situation is in public rather than private contracts

exact same as rhino horn, but we're the rhinos

[ZombieHorde]

58. I know I would rather live in a more educated society.

Education destroys conservatives and fascists.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

60. Not too many people squawked about my "Free Education" paid for by taxpayers.

GI Bill.

Do taxpayers pay for the education of students at West Point, Annapolis, or The Air Force Academy. Do those students need student loans?

[NobodyHere]

61. If we get tuition free college

What carrot will the military have to dangle to get recruits?

When I joined at least half the people I knew were motivated to join by the GI Bill.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

63. After my first day in boot camp I decided it wasn't worth it.