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Time for change

(13,718 posts)
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 03:52 PM Mar 2016

Bernie Supporters in Washington Demand that superdelegates Respect the Wishes of their Constituents

Bernie Sanders supporters in Washington state are demanding that Washington’s superdelegates respect the wishes of their constituents, who voted 72.7% for Sanders in yesterday’s Democratic caucuses.

Unlike delegates who are elected through the Democratic process in primaries and caucuses, the so-called superdelegates are free to vote for whomever they want at the Democratic Convention. A majority of Washington’s 17 superdelegates already endorsed Hillary Clinton, even before yesterday’s caucuses took place, as have the vast majority of superdelegates throughout the United States, giving Hillary Clinton a much greater lead (if the superdelegates who have endorsed her vote for her at the Democratic Convention) over Sanders than she would otherwise have. Most public published accounts of the current delegate counts actually include the votes of those superdelegates who have endorsed Clinton. Clinton currently leads Sanders in those superdelegate votes by 469 to 29, which takes little or no account of the public voting in the states that they represent. Their votes give Clinton an apparently insurmountable lead over Sanders. They fall in line with the wishes of the Democratic Party establishment and are a blatant affront to the democratic process. Not even the Republican Party uses such a process.

Sanders supporters in Washington are circulating a petition, which already has more than 6 thousand signatures. They are warning the elected superdelegates, “You work for us. We want Bernie. Respect us or lose your jobs”.

Other states should do the same. They should also consider whether there is a significant gap in favorability ratings of the candidates (Bernie’s is currently +7.4%, Hillary’s is -13.2%) and how they do in head to head competition vs. the Republican nominee (Bernie does much better than Hillary against all the major Republican likely nominees).

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Bernie Supporters in Washington Demand that superdelegates Respect the Wishes of their Constituents (Original Post) Time for change Mar 2016 OP
Should they consider their state's will or favorability ratings? MadBadger Mar 2016 #1
In my opinion they should consider both Time for change Mar 2016 #8
Both sides of his mouth? Either side will do - both are correct. n/t lumberjack_jeff Mar 2016 #25
How about considering the will of the DEMOCRATS they represent? Subtract all those Independents, an Jitter65 Mar 2016 #66
Why subtract the independents? Time for change Mar 2016 #69
When the Anti-Establishment Candidate wins by a Landslide FreakinDJ Mar 2016 #2
Agreed! CorporatistNation Mar 2016 #18
When the landslide consisted of a caucus that is held with limited hours? LiberalFighter Mar 2016 #53
Bernie won every single county in the state. If the WA super delegates don't switch, they liberal_at_heart Mar 2016 #3
What in the hell are these super delegates thinking? Aerows Mar 2016 #11
I know. That was the icing on the cake. He won all counties in all three states yesterday. liberal_at_heart Mar 2016 #13
Yes it is amazing monicaangela Mar 2016 #51
With less than 10% of the voters participating. kennetha Mar 2016 #77
directly against the will of less than 10% of the voters. kennetha Mar 2016 #76
Exactly !!! SamKnause Mar 2016 #86
20,400 signatures now. Including mine. opiate69 Mar 2016 #4
that'll scare 'em kennetha Mar 2016 #78
When did the Clinton camp ever care about the will of the people? libtodeath Mar 2016 #5
The party should really do away with supers, that being said I have no problem if they switch. Agschmid Mar 2016 #6
This whining is getting ridicules.... Henhouse Mar 2016 #7
I don't see anything childish about it Time for change Mar 2016 #9
Gee thanks for explaining how small d democracy works to me.... Henhouse Mar 2016 #20
and "that" is exactly the problem 0rganism Mar 2016 #37
You forget that now many super-delegates are lobbyists beholding only to special interests Dragonfli Mar 2016 #46
i assumed WA Sanders supporters weren't even addressing the lobbyist superdelegates 0rganism Mar 2016 #47
I agree, the super delegates have their place against a Trump like figure, but are being misused Dragonfli Mar 2016 #49
other than the MSM using them to manufacture consent, i don't see much misuse yet 0rganism Mar 2016 #54
For this reason, I'm waiting until June 7th results are in before making these kinds of "demands" strategery blunder Mar 2016 #62
Agree DemocracyDirect Mar 2016 #83
They are not elected officials but they were elected by members of the LiberalFighter Mar 2016 #56
Then let me explain it to you Time for change Mar 2016 #94
Ironically, since we have been "reassured" for years that superdelegates vote in support of Dragonfli Mar 2016 #23
If you are a Democrat, voting in a Democratic Primary, You should now how the system works... Henhouse Mar 2016 #40
Since 1968 they have voted as they should, the will of their constituencies. Until now Dragonfli Mar 2016 #43
And the elected ones have known all along Mike__M Mar 2016 #48
The super delegates do not work for you in the capacity as super delegates kennetha Mar 2016 #79
the pols work for us, not vice-versa: it's called "not being a horrible oligarchy" MisterP Mar 2016 #70
Right to petition in the United States Ichingcarpenter Mar 2016 #10
to petition the Government for a redress of grievances... Henhouse Mar 2016 #22
The DNC governs democrats ......... and thus the govern. Ichingcarpenter Mar 2016 #39
lol...No problem with petitions.... Henhouse Mar 2016 #42
If the DNC governed the Democrats LiberalFighter Mar 2016 #52
Signed the petition PearliePoo2 Mar 2016 #12
They don't have the clout to threaten the super delegates. Nt hack89 Mar 2016 #14
Allow me to reintroduce you to a concept Aerows Mar 2016 #15
Makes no difference. The super delegates will not be a factor hack89 Mar 2016 #24
The superdelegates vote on the first ballot Time for change Mar 2016 #57
Respect us or lose your jobs!! FlatBaroque Mar 2016 #16
more demands/threats from berniebros . . . not unlike the caucus demands via bullying we have DrDan Mar 2016 #17
Doesn't Hillary have you out trying to train wild birds yet FreakinDJ Mar 2016 #19
no, she has us focussing on getting folks to actually vote DrDan Mar 2016 #21
How? Can you afford to buy her another super? Or perhaps threaten them via her hit list? /nt Dragonfli Mar 2016 #27
we don't threaten - that is a berniebros tactic DrDan Mar 2016 #28
Then why does Hillary keep an enemies list? /nt Dragonfli Mar 2016 #29
you have evidence of anyone being threatened via some list? DrDan Mar 2016 #31
LOL, it is the most well known "secret" in DC. Are you really going to play naive on this? /nt Dragonfli Mar 2016 #36
sorry - not able to keep up with all the BS conspiracies DrDan Mar 2016 #38
You read his sig line? Fairgo Mar 2016 #82
Sense of humor gap? DrDan Mar 2016 #87
Jury results JustABozoOnThisBus Mar 2016 #85
A vast majority of Superdelegates SaschaHM Mar 2016 #26
Good point...NT Henhouse Mar 2016 #45
I'm not suggesting that all superdelegates should vote for a candidate that wins their state Time for change Mar 2016 #58
That is all I expect as well. and yet the meme is they should go against such reasonable wishes Dragonfli Mar 2016 #68
Maybe Cantwell but I doubt Murray. snowy owl Mar 2016 #30
We the people have voted, Hillary has more votes than Bernie so they Thinkingabout Mar 2016 #32
The masses need to educate themselves of the purpose of superdelegates Sheepshank Mar 2016 #33
If the DNC doesn't care about the will of the people Time for change Mar 2016 #59
Sure they care. That's why they take a poll in the form of Primary votes Sheepshank Mar 2016 #67
You just said in post # 33 that their purpose is not to represent the will of the public Time for change Mar 2016 #71
Sigh...indies don't have a DNC to pick their preferred candidate Sheepshank Mar 2016 #74
K&R felix_numinous Mar 2016 #34
That is the fairy tale they have maintained as the truth and even kept to it, until now Dragonfli Mar 2016 #41
The crux of the battle felix_numinous Mar 2016 #44
Well HRC is winning the national popular vote by a lot. iandhr Mar 2016 #35
It doesn't seem right that a superdelegate in Washington should be supporting the Vinca Mar 2016 #55
That lead has been consistently narrowing, and is now down to 8% Time for change Mar 2016 #60
Is he going to demand Alan Grayson support Hillary? hrmjustin Mar 2016 #50
If Alan Grayson votes for Bernie, Florida superdelegates will still be voting for Time for change Mar 2016 #90
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Mar 2016 #61
so much naivete snowy owl Mar 2016 #63
Complaints have changed a lot of things at all levels of government -- throughout world history Time for change Mar 2016 #65
so give me an example of one... snowy owl Mar 2016 #75
Would Clinton hold a grudge against superdelegates for Bernie if she's elected? snowy owl Mar 2016 #64
I absolutely agree with that Time for change Mar 2016 #72
Those "Bernie Sanders supporters in Washington state" can go pound sand, tbh Tarc Mar 2016 #73
Bernie supporters in WA need to learn a little bit about Party Primary rules.... Sheepshank Mar 2016 #80
The rules do not say that superdelegates cannot change their mind or be petitioned by Time for change Mar 2016 #88
My point was attempting to redefine how and why Superdelegates cast votes of a particular candidate Sheepshank Mar 2016 #93
Really, the whole system needs to change gollygee Mar 2016 #81
So the Sanders supporters want to change the delegate rules in the middle of the game? SFnomad Mar 2016 #84
See my reply in post # 88. Time for change Mar 2016 #89
That's not what the OP is asking for SFnomad Mar 2016 #91
Agree with respecting the wishes of voters in each state. Disagree if they disrespect pampango Mar 2016 #92

MadBadger

(24,089 posts)
1. Should they consider their state's will or favorability ratings?
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 03:53 PM
Mar 2016

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Time for change

(13,718 posts)
8. In my opinion they should consider both
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:00 PM
Mar 2016

They should respect the wishes of their constituents, but also, we want to nominate someone who has the best chance of beating the Republican nominee. Voters voting today don't know how that's going to shape up at the time of the convention. I voted for Bernie in my primary, but if polls show that Hillary has a much better chance of winning the GE than Bernie at the time of the Democratic Convention, then I would want Florida's superdelegates to vote for Hillary.

 

Jitter65

(3,089 posts)
66. How about considering the will of the DEMOCRATS they represent? Subtract all those Independents, an
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 08:08 PM
Mar 2016

crossovers from the total voting. I wouldn't mind if some of the supers changed in accordance with the percentage of true Democrats that they represent.

 

FreakinDJ

(17,644 posts)
2. When the Anti-Establishment Candidate wins by a Landslide
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 03:54 PM
Mar 2016

They could at least respect the vote of the people

LiberalFighter

(51,210 posts)
53. When the landslide consisted of a caucus that is held with limited hours?
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:45 PM
Mar 2016

Not very representative of the voters that will show up in the general.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
3. Bernie won every single county in the state. If the WA super delegates don't switch, they
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 03:55 PM
Mar 2016

are going directly against the voters.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
11. What in the hell are these super delegates thinking?
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:07 PM
Mar 2016

He swept every damn COUNTY. I just thought I would reiterate your point.

It's nuts.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
76. directly against the will of less than 10% of the voters.
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 12:36 AM
Mar 2016

How scary.

3 million Washingtonians voted in 2012. just over 200k participated in the Washington State Caucus. Who exactly do they speak for except themselves?

And why should the super delegates surrender their judgment and independence to these folks exactly?

All 200k of them are going to get together and do what exactly?

SamKnause

(13,111 posts)
86. Exactly !!!
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 08:58 AM
Mar 2016

In the state of Vermont he won 86% of the votes.

!!!!!!!!!!!86%!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He got every single delegate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hillary was not even viable.

She did not get a single delegate.

Howard Dean is a super delegate in the state of Vermont.

He is a pharma lobbyist.

He has pledged his super delegate vote to Hillary.

Bernie is fighting the establishment.

This is an example of the establishment telling the 99% we don't

give a flying fuck about the will of the people.


Henhouse

(646 posts)
7. This whining is getting ridicules....
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:00 PM
Mar 2016

The DNC has been using superdelegates since 1968.... If you want to change the system fine....but this is just childish “You work for us. We want Bernie. Respect us or lose your jobs”.

PS. I supported HRC in 2008 and I know how frustrating the nominating process can be.

Time for change

(13,718 posts)
9. I don't see anything childish about it
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:04 PM
Mar 2016

In a democracy, our elected representatives do work for us. That is virtually the meaning of democracy. Any elected public official who blatantly rejects the wishes of their constituents deserves to be in danger of losing their job.

The fact that superdelegates have been used since 1968 has nothing to do with this. Maintaining the status quo is no excuse for a subversion of the democratic process.

Henhouse

(646 posts)
20. Gee thanks for explaining how small d democracy works to me....
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:22 PM
Mar 2016

How that applies to how the Democratic party selects it's nominee is beyond me....

0rganism

(23,977 posts)
37. and "that" is exactly the problem
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:44 PM
Mar 2016

> How "small d democracy" applies to how the Democratic party selects it's nominee is beyond me....
imho, it should not be some goddam mystery, wrapped in enigma, wrapped in arcane dogma.

setting aside any ethical concerns associated with representing "small d democracy", superdelegates who currently hold elected offices (whether statewide or district-level) would be fools not to consider the ramifications of going against their constituency's choice of nominee.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
46. You forget that now many super-delegates are lobbyists beholding only to special interests
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:13 PM
Mar 2016

and are not elected officials, in my mind this is a very serious problem and I would love to see how many that go against the voters in the states they represent, only represent corporate interests as a job.

http://truthinmedia.com/reality-check-lobbyist-superdelegates-bigger-vote/

0rganism

(23,977 posts)
47. i assumed WA Sanders supporters weren't even addressing the lobbyist superdelegates
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:27 PM
Mar 2016

and just looking particularly at those superdelegates who currently hold elected office in some capacity.

i'd think such corporate lobbyist superdelegates wouldn't be amenable to external persuasion anyway -- not by vote, not by petition.

perhaps that's a "good thing" from certain points of view. like if you thought your party was being overrun by dangerous demagoguery, you might want superdelegates around to oppose an otherwise popular candidate on grounds of some core principle. the Republicans are probably pissed at themselves right now for not having a system like that in place this year.

no question though -- if this Democratic primary is decided by superdelegates against the will of the primary voters and caucus participants, it's essentially sacrificing what's otherwise shaping up to be a Democratic landslide in November.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
49. I agree, the super delegates have their place against a Trump like figure, but are being misused
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:34 PM
Mar 2016

It is because of the misuse that it will likely damage the party irreparably, Now we have DWS on record assuming they are to suppress grassroots Democrats and the support and new members such candidates would bring into the party, since Sanders is a clean politician, with his most extreme of views sounding more like FDR than anything else, I feel they are making a grave error here.

0rganism

(23,977 posts)
54. other than the MSM using them to manufacture consent, i don't see much misuse yet
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:46 PM
Mar 2016

they do have a history of supporting the final pledged delegate leader at the convention, which isn't for a while yet. superdelegates supported McGovern in '72 and Carter in '76, back when the system was fresh. they supported Obama in '08. they may not be supporting the winners of state delegates at this stage, but that really isn't their role.

the DWS comment is damning on its face, but we could probably cut her some slack in that "grassroots movements" might mean something very different to a Jew living in Florida.

a lot of things just won't be settled until the convention; i think we are not too far away from unification regardless of which candidate ends up as the nominee. gaffes from DWS won't help, but a solid speech from president Obama likely will.

strategery blunder

(4,225 posts)
62. For this reason, I'm waiting until June 7th results are in before making these kinds of "demands"
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 06:49 PM
Mar 2016

If Hillary can make it past California and still be ahead in pledged delegates with nowhere else for Bernie to go, WA's superdelegates have a viable reason to stay where they're at now.

Earlier in the primary, I argued that if Bernie goes into the convention and the supers give it to Hillary anyway, there's gonna be hell to pay a la 1968.

However, even though I caucused for Bernie yesterday and view Hillary as Nixon-lite, I'm NOT a hypocrite (and even Nixon had some redeeming qualities, ironically the creation of the EPA was signed by him).

If California wants to give Bernie another blowout and Bernie pulls ahead in pledged delegates, that's when I start writing my office-holding supers to let them know that recreating 1968 is a bad idea.

 

DemocracyDirect

(708 posts)
83. Agree
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 01:20 AM
Mar 2016

I do have a concern that if the difference is less than 50 delegates and particularly if less than 30 for Hillary, there may be some very vocal outrage...

... especially in light of some unusual things happening at some primaries and caucuses.

I would be fine if New York and California speak decisively either way.

LiberalFighter

(51,210 posts)
56. They are not elected officials but they were elected by members of the
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 06:04 PM
Mar 2016

State Central Committee which is represented by chairs and vice chairs of each congressional district. Those "lobbyists" which are Democratic Party activists that have been active in the State Party are DNC members representing the state at the DNC.

The general population does not get to decide the rules for the DNC or RNC.

If you are not involved in your local Democratic Party as a precinct person or county officer you don't have a voice. The precinct officers elect the county officers, the county officers elect the district officers and the district officers elect the state officers. Each level decides how they will operate their organization.

Time for change

(13,718 posts)
94. Then let me explain it to you
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 06:51 PM
Mar 2016

Superdelegates essentially have a lot more voting power than ordinary people. Hundreds or thousands of people vote to select a single delegate. Superdelegates are simply picked by the DNC to be a delegate. It defies the one person one vote principle of democracy. If you don't understand that, I'm sorry.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
23. Ironically, since we have been "reassured" for years that superdelegates vote in support of
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:25 PM
Mar 2016

The will of the people in the states they represent, them now revealing that their votes are for sale AGAINST those they represent, I see a 1968 redux in the making. The people that voted in what they were led to believe was a fair primary learning that their votes are meaningless compared to votes for sale will have the effect of tearing the party apart.

Henhouse

(646 posts)
40. If you are a Democrat, voting in a Democratic Primary, You should now how the system works...
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:49 PM
Mar 2016

I'm almost 60 years old and a life long democratic. The superdelegates are, and have always been free to vote for whoever they choose.....

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
43. Since 1968 they have voted as they should, the will of their constituencies. Until now
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:58 PM
Mar 2016

You are correct however that they were put in place for such a time as the party decided to cheat the people, I imagine the test of their not cheating the people has to do with money in this day and age, and money rather than the people they are supposed to represent is now their only true allegiance..

Mike__M

(1,052 posts)
48. And the elected ones have known all along
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:28 PM
Mar 2016

that they'll need the voters to re-elect them if they want to keep their positions.

kennetha

(3,666 posts)
79. The super delegates do not work for you in the capacity as super delegates
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 12:41 AM
Mar 2016

they are there to exercise independent judgment as long-term stake holders in the party. Not to be pushed around by a bunch of aroused and entitled millennials with no real stake in the party who think that can just stomp their feet and get their way.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
70. the pols work for us, not vice-versa: it's called "not being a horrible oligarchy"
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 11:44 PM
Mar 2016

at least you could have SOME access to Politburo and Partkom members in the USSR: heck, Yeltsin even toppled off bridges and blamed the KGB; the government's literally falling into your boat!

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
10. Right to petition in the United States
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:05 PM
Mar 2016

In the United States the right to petition is guaranteed by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which specifically prohibits Congress from abridging "the right of the people...to petition the Government for a redress of grievances".


Although often overlooked in favor of other more famous freedoms, and sometimes taken for granted,[1] many other civil liberties are enforceable against the government only by exercising this basic right.[2] The right to petition is regarded as fundamental in some republics, such as the United States, as a means of protecting public participation in government.[1]


American right of petition is derived from British precedent. In Blackstone's Commentaries, Americans in the Thirteen Colonies read that "the right of petitioning the king, or either house of parliament, for the redress of grievances" was a "right appertaining to every individual".[3]


In 1776, the Declaration of Independence cited King George's perceived failure to redress the grievances listed in colonial petitions, such as the Olive Branch Petition of 1775, as a justification to declare independence:


In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people

Henhouse

(646 posts)
42. lol...No problem with petitions....
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:54 PM
Mar 2016

but I don't go around telling people I have a constitutionally protected right to demand the DNC respond to them...

LiberalFighter

(51,210 posts)
52. If the DNC governed the Democrats
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:42 PM
Mar 2016

There wouldn't be primaries or caucuses. They would had decided already who the nominee would be.
There wouldn't be county, district, and state parties with control over their own area.

The United States government does not control how political parties beyond what is already in place.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
15. Allow me to reintroduce you to a concept
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:13 PM
Mar 2016

"Clout" happens when you win something. "Clout" happens when thousands of people support a particular idea.

Now "Clout" can be subverted by money or favors, but that tends to have bad optics, particularly when it is noticed far and wide by the public, who are the people you are trying to gain "Clout" with in the first place.

I hope that helps.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
24. Makes no difference. The super delegates will not be a factor
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:28 PM
Mar 2016

not with only two candidates. One of them will win with pledged delegates alone.

Time for change

(13,718 posts)
57. The superdelegates vote on the first ballot
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 06:27 PM
Mar 2016

The fact that there are only two candidates doesn't change that. If the superdelegates give 400-600 votes to Clinton above what they give to Sanders, that means that Sanders will have to make that up among the elected delegates, a tremendously difficult task. They very well may be a huge factor if they don't support the will of the voter whom they are supposed to represent.

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
17. more demands/threats from berniebros . . . not unlike the caucus demands via bullying we have
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:16 PM
Mar 2016

read about here today

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,375 posts)
85. Jury results
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 05:21 AM
Mar 2016

On Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:18 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

more demands/threats from berniebros . . . not unlike the caucus demands via bullying we have
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1587940

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

load of shit.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Mar 27, 2016, 10:26 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: "load of shit"? Alerter, you are claiming "load of shit" as your reason for alerting?
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: beriebros is meant to be insulting. hide it.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerted on this? sigh
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerter used vulgar language in his alert comment. So I can't justify hiding a post because the alerter cannot keep civil.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter's comment was not well thought out. Let's leave it.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

SaschaHM

(2,897 posts)
26. A vast majority of Superdelegates
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:29 PM
Mar 2016

are DNC officials. 460 to be exact. They're chosen by the party, not independents. Take WA, for example, only 8 or the 17 are actually at risk of losing their job and even that has caveats.
I'm also not sure that this doesn't benefit Hillary more in the long run. She's winning bigger states with more super delegates. They split the delegates evenly in IL, but if we abide by this petition, then she gains 26 more delegates. Some of those will have to switch if Bernie wants the nomination and if we're building in this rule where super delegates act like pledged delegates and stick with the nominee, then you're giving Hillary Clinton, as of this moment, 260 more delegates and Sanders 134 more delegates. That leaves him worse off than he was yesterday. People might want to wait until after Apr26th to start going down this hole because if she cleans up in NY, PA, MD, and DE, that's 98 more delegates added on to whatever margin of victory that she has.

Time for change

(13,718 posts)
58. I'm not suggesting that all superdelegates should vote for a candidate that wins their state
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 06:31 PM
Mar 2016

by a small margin. I'm suggesting that there should represent the will of the people to the extent that the voters in their state voted. Thus, in Illinois they should be fairly evenly split in order to represent the will of the people of their state.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
68. That is all I expect as well. and yet the meme is they should go against such reasonable wishes
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 09:23 PM
Mar 2016
because "reasons".

We have become a party without principle, or small d Democratic standards and as such a house of cards destined to crumble under an unequal weight of gravity at the top of such a pyramid.

After 38 years as a registered and voting Democrat, my party affiliation was changed by the party establishment, and I tried to rectify the tampering by re-registering again as a Democrat only to find that the NYS part of the party establishment will not recognize my correction until after this November. They kicked me out of the party, I did not leave, and since I cannot vote in the Primary for Sanders, I will vote my Primary preference for him in the GE and re-register again as the non Democratic voter they appear they want me to be when they changed my party affiliation without my consent or knowledge.

I doubt I am alone, and the once much larger party, that now only sports 30% of the population, I expect will drop down to 25% or less after this blatantly Rovian primary and it's successful attempts at party disenfranchisement.

They are determined it would appear to lose the GE at all cost just to promote a dishonest and corrupt favorite of the establishment preferred candidate.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
32. We the people have voted, Hillary has more votes than Bernie so they
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:36 PM
Mar 2016

Should respect the majority of the voters.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
33. The masses need to educate themselves of the purpose of superdelegates
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:38 PM
Mar 2016

So much rhetoric, so much incorrect info floating out there. So many forgetting the DNC is not a government organization and they make the rules of how they pick the representative candidate. They can change this rules too. If SuperDelegates always matched a popular vote...then what would be the point of SuperDelegates? The SD purpose is to represent the desire of the DNC not the polling public. People need to realize that in the end, these votes are a poll.

Time for change

(13,718 posts)
59. If the DNC doesn't care about the will of the people
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 06:36 PM
Mar 2016

then they should be replaced by a Party that does care.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
67. Sure they care. That's why they take a poll in the form of Primary votes
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 08:22 PM
Mar 2016

Are you stating that the DNC is ignoring the will of a majority of the people that are registered as Dems? Are they supposed to represent the will of indies in the primaries?

Time for change

(13,718 posts)
71. You just said in post # 33 that their purpose is not to represent the will of the public
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 12:04 AM
Mar 2016

Independents deserve to be represented by our government just as much as anyone else.

Sometimes they get that privilege through voting in open primaries, and sometimes they get it by changing their party affiliation to Dem or Rep to vote in a closed primary. That is their legal and their moral right.

This is legally allowed because the two parties recognize that they need the support of independents in order to win elections. If and when they fail to do that, then it is time to replace them with a Party that will recognize their right to be represented.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
74. Sigh...indies don't have a DNC to pick their preferred candidate
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 12:18 AM
Mar 2016

Indies will have to settle for a nominee that aligns with DNC or RNC goals. I suppose Indies always have the option of voting for one of the dozens of other POTUS hopefuls that are not associated with RNC or DNC. But there is absolutly no obligation for those two major parties to pick any candidate that doesn't promote the goals of the party in favor of a candidate that appears to assuage the changing whims of the independent voter. Both parties woo them, but woo them to align as a Dem or a Rep.

As for the will of the voter.....it's definitely taken into consideration, but isn't the final call. If you will just take a moment and see the disarray going on in the RNC, they don't seems to be in alignment with a majority of their constituency. This is a working, breathing example of how Primaries do not necessarily reflect the will of the party.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
41. That is the fairy tale they have maintained as the truth and even kept to it, until now
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:51 PM
Mar 2016

Now that there is so very much money changing hands and a candidate calling in a chance for redemption on her enemies list used to harm their "enemies" politically, the curtain has finally been drawn back.

We finally get to see the lie it has been until they now, as they have decided it was in everyone's best interest financially or politically within a corrupted party establishment to use it to cheat as it was designed to do if ever a candidate became popular that failed to be corrupt enough to suit their needs.

iandhr

(6,852 posts)
35. Well HRC is winning the national popular vote by a lot.
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 04:41 PM
Mar 2016

So some of the supers can legitimately claim the are representing the will of the people by supporting Hillary.

This is the case where "will of the people" can be a subjective.


Bernie wins Washington but HRC is winning nationally.



Vinca

(50,320 posts)
55. It doesn't seem right that a superdelegate in Washington should be supporting the
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 05:54 PM
Mar 2016

will of the people in Florida. Bottom line, it sure appears the candidate will be chosen by the party bosses and the rank and file voters are only useful in creating a stage setting for a democratic charade.

Time for change

(13,718 posts)
60. That lead has been consistently narrowing, and is now down to 8%
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 06:40 PM
Mar 2016

It should also be kept in mind that that lead applies only to Democratic voters. Bernie has much wider appeal and would beat her easily in national polls that included all voters. Only a minority of voters are Democrats, and other voters are going to play a huge role in the GE.

Time for change

(13,718 posts)
90. If Alan Grayson votes for Bernie, Florida superdelegates will still be voting for
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 01:55 PM
Mar 2016

Hillary out of porportion to how their constituents voted for her.

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)
63. so much naivete
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 06:50 PM
Mar 2016

The parties are closed organizations. They can do what they want. Lots of superdelegates did change their commitments in 2008 from Hillary to Obama. So of course they can. But Bernie is different. He wants to upend the establishment Not so Obama. Politics have been dirty probably since the beginning and the people sold a bill of goods basically. Now that it really matters, we may be helpless to make all the changes and adjustments we need. If people would support the Green party, that would be a start. that would have been a start a long, long time ago. Not because I think the Greens are the answer but because I know the democrats and republicans are definitely not the answers.

But it is what it is. And all the complaints and whines aren't going to change it. You have to be willing to risk something very different.

Time for change

(13,718 posts)
65. Complaints have changed a lot of things at all levels of government -- throughout world history
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 07:38 PM
Mar 2016

It depends on how many complaints there are and how the targets of the complaints perceive the threats to themselves for not addressing them adequately.

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)
64. Would Clinton hold a grudge against superdelegates for Bernie if she's elected?
Sun Mar 27, 2016, 07:02 PM
Mar 2016

Just another consideration for the superdelegates. There should not be anybody with an extra vote. It amounts to intimidation and bribery.

Tarc

(10,478 posts)
73. Those "Bernie Sanders supporters in Washington state" can go pound sand, tbh
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 12:18 AM
Mar 2016

This is not how the party works.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
80. Bernie supporters in WA need to learn a little bit about Party Primary rules....
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 12:43 AM
Mar 2016

....and realize those rules are prepared ahead of time, all candidates are aware of the rules when they decide to run. Rules are not subject to change midway through an election, at the whim of whiny indies or anyone else that can't figure it out.

Sure change the rules, but every candidate has a strategy based on the current rules, no one should be subject to the whims of those that simply don't understand those rules.

Time for change

(13,718 posts)
88. The rules do not say that superdelegates cannot change their mind or be petitioned by
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 01:50 PM
Mar 2016

their constituents.

Maybe you need to understand the rules a little bit better.

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
93. My point was attempting to redefine how and why Superdelegates cast votes of a particular candidate
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 03:17 PM
Mar 2016

Candidate strategies are not based on whether SD's vote in the same manner as a State popular vote. If we were going to change it, why not use a national standard for a majority, since that is what will be important in the GE?

I understand why you would like to change it, and I honestly don't care if you and you cohorts are able to sway a delegate to change their vote based on some merit that Bernie has that they hadn't previously considered. But to imply they MUST vote a certain way because of some new manufactured rule, well you are just barking up the wrong tree.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
81. Really, the whole system needs to change
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 12:53 AM
Mar 2016

It's ridiculous to have a system that is so complicated. There should be one primary date, the same across the country, and they should either go by popular vote, or use something similar to the electoral map for general elections.

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
84. So the Sanders supporters want to change the delegate rules in the middle of the game?
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 01:34 AM
Mar 2016

How convenient for them.

Whatever your feelings are about Superdelegates, the middle of a primary contest is not when you should be changing the delegate rules.

So what do these supports feel should happen with the Superdelegates? Should 72.7% of them (12) be pledged to Sanders? Or all of them (17)?

Time for change

(13,718 posts)
89. See my reply in post # 88.
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 01:52 PM
Mar 2016

The rules do not say that superdelegates cannot change their minds prior to the convention.

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
91. That's not what the OP is asking for
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 01:58 PM
Mar 2016

The OP says that supporters demand Superdelegates "respect the wishes of their constituents", which were not the superdelegate rules when the voting began. Again, I'll ask, why should the superdelegate rules be changed in the middle of the contest?

pampango

(24,692 posts)
92. Agree with respecting the wishes of voters in each state. Disagree if they disrespect
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 02:05 PM
Mar 2016

the wishes of primary voters in all states and decide that they - the superdelegates, the establishment - know better than the voters who should be our candidate. And that is true whether Hillary or Bernie has more votes/delegates then the establishment picks the other one.

If we are going to disrespect primary voters and depend on the establishment to pick our candidate based on polls and their opinion of who has the best chance to beat the republican candidate, we can do away with the primary process and just let he superdelegates to their magic. I want Bernie to win but not if he has fewer votes/delegates and the establishment puts him over the top.

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