DU used to know me as being super anti-Hillary and pro-Bernie. After a few months, #ImWithHer

[gobears10]

First of all, I want to congratulate Bernie and his supporters for their big wins today. It's definitely no small feat to win 70%+ of a state, whether it favors you or not. I still respect Bernie immensely as a person. My support of Bernie was so fervent last year, that I even got banned from the DU Hillary Clinton group for posting an anti-Hillary tirade. Having said that, over the course of the last few months, I've had a change of heart, and decided to switch my support from Bernie to Hillary.

I'm now firmly pro-Hillary because I simply trust her more to build on President Obama's progress to strengthen our economy and advance social justice. She's not a Third Way/DLC/Corporatist as I previously claimed, and has actually stood up to the Blue Dogs within the party. She's a solid liberal, just a pragmatic progressive.

Throughout this campaign, Hillary's demonstrated a strong grasp of the complex issues facing our nation, articulating pragmatic solutions to them. While her foreign policy chops are well established, she's also displayed a nuanced understanding of domestic and economic problems, committing herself more than any other candidate in either party to evidence-based policymaking. I appreciate how she cares about getting the nuts and bolts right. She recognizes that there's more to good policy than being ideologically pure and checking off boxes for the left.

Finally, Hillary understands that there needs to be an actual gameplan beyond hoping for some "political revolution" to deliver a liberal wishlist. Given that she's spent 30+ years coalition building and gaining support from her colleagues, she'll actually have a chance at carrying out her agenda. That's why I feel Hillary should not only be the Democratic Party's 2016 nominee, but also the next President of the United States.

[cantbeserious]

1. Sorry To Learn Of Your Change Of Heart - That Is A Tragedy To This Citizen

eom

[Zira]

108. I think that hide speaks loads for the average jury on DU.

this place is scary.

[senz]

118. He merely pointed out the OP is fairly new w/few comments. Big deal.

Why on earth would any one alert on something like that?

I think you're right, it's getting scary. Sounds like somebody doesn't like the way things are going.

[Zira]

119. Sounds like a tilted jury system.

I wonder if it includes a way to exclude others without hides from being part of that jury. Ie. anyone with a Bernie avatar.

just saying. I've see a whole lot of politicized jury decisions here and I haven't been here very long. The outcomes look consistent from what I see.

[senz]

139. They have rules about who serves on juries.

I had to hunt around to find this, and I think it's an early version but most of the rules still go.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=modsystem

Here are the specific rules for who is excluded from a jury:

they have their "Willingness to serve on a DU Jury" option set to "Unwilling"
they are ignoring the alerted member
they are blocking DU mail from the alerted member
they have replied to the alerted member within the last 24 hours
they have alerted on the alerted member within the last 24 hours
they have posted in the thread which contains the alerted post
they are on the alerted member's Jury Blacklist

We are also aware that supporters of a certain candidate plan alerts for a time and situation where they stand a good chance of all being on a jury. Since the last change in rules, five hides don't get a timeout for a person, so the motive may not be as strong.

[Zira]

140. Thank you! I didn't know any of this.

Really good info.

[senz]

141. They should have the rules posted in an obvious place for everyone.

I find rules quite boring and tend to forget them, so it's always nice to be able to look them up easily. They ought to have a link to them on the left column.

Anyway, you're welcome.

[Zira]

142. Agreed, it would be better to have them on the left. I should have gone looking for the rules too.

And,

[randome]

207. That explains why I never get hides. Everyone has me on Ignore!

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[baran]

229. I don't think the 2nd and 3rd rules still apply?

I just recently served on a jury. I have had that alerted poster on full ignore for a long time.

[ZombieHorde]

252. I almost never vote to hide, but I may have voted to hide that post.

The post, in my opinion, was replacing logic with prejudice.

[Art_from_Ark]

144. That's got to be one of the most innocuous hidden posts I've ever seen

Terrible jury decision

[FlatBaroque]

214. It is ridiculous

they make a mockery of juries, they are mods who lock posts based on their personal prefs, they are on the MIRT. The nasty minority controlling the vast majority. Pretty typical of the world in which we live.

[Wilms]

2. "...she'll actually have a chance at carrying out her agenda."

Exactly why many support Sanders.

[daleanime]

5. +1

[dchill]

7. +1

[questionseverything]

36. her agenda is what terrifies me

she will finish off what safety net we have left...afterall we will have to pay for ww3 if hc is the cic

[TrueDemVA]

62. Ain't that the truth

Until she guarantees to protect and strengthen/expand our social safety nets, she will never get my vote. Honestly, even if she did say, I don't know anyone could trust what she says anyway.

[Shadowflash]

37. Yup.

nt

[Arugula Latte]

89. Yep. We don't want her rightwing agenda.

[MFM008]

152. if you think HRC is right wing

You MAY be part of the group that makes sure we have a TRUMP in the oval office. She may not be as liberal as I like but neither is Barack Obama. He has done everything she is doing now and holds many of the same positions.
I dont care WHO the nominee is as long as they beat the GOP, thats MY issue. Get over the BUTT HURT or I swear you will regret it the day Trump is sworn in.

[Arugula Latte]

227. If Hillary is the nominee I'll vote for her if it looks like a close contest in my state.

If it's not close I'll write in Bernie.

However, what is the use of being a Democrat if your representatives act like Republicans? The party keeps going farther and farther to the right. I've voted for the Ds every year since 1984 but I am starting to rethink my allegiance, thanks to people like Hillary. How and when is this capitulation to corporations going to end if we keep rewarding people because "at least they're not quite as bad as the Republicans."

[greiner3]

244. As I live in OH

Any option other than to vote for the D is a fucked up reason and fuck em. Can I say that without fear of getting a hide?

[Zira]

110. +10000

Like the war with Iran she keeps talking about
supporting the TPP and Keystone XL as she has spoke for so many times and has taken money from the biggest fracking companies in the world which are also still in her super pac and donors to the Clinton foundation.
and I'm sure so many more wonderful perks for all her superpac owners who will get what they paid for.

And since she's had her hand in 3 major refugee crisis(Honduras, Columbia, Syria), we can only guess what more to come.

[tblue]

147. +1000 That's what I fear. nt

[seekthetruth]

156. TRUMP + Clinton = (same coin)/2

[Aerows]

167. Her agenda

scares the shit out of me. I have nephews of enlistment age.

[Scuba]

187. + another

[daleanime]

3. Too bad and of that knowledge and skill.....

are put to work for the highest bidder.

[djean111]

4. All righty, then!

'bye!

[jsmirman]

70. Bye from where? This is GDP - not BS' GDP

although clearly words that do not conform to your own views are distressing to your ears.

[djean111]

175. 'bye from my attention.

And - clearly the fact that the most flowery assertions of new-found Hillary fandom do not exorcise, for me, the real demons of war and fracking and the TPP and cluster bombs and a host of other things that Hillary embraces - clearly that fact must be distressing to YOU. If we are going to toss around hyperbolic assertions and such.

Nothing can override my hatred of those things. I have no doubt, you know, that Hillary just may be better at working with the GOP. That is the frightening thing - what she would achieve would be Third Way and neo-con aims, like "incrementally" chipping at safety nets, and war. No thanks. No matter who suddenly says those things (evidently) do not matter.

Ears are fine!

[asuhornets]

6. Good for You!!!!!

HILLARY HILLARY !!!!

[gobears10]

11. thanks!! :)

do you know if there's any way I could be un-banned from the hillary clinton DU group? I sincerely apologize for my past actions before I came to support her.

[asuhornets]

16. LOL

I was banned from Bernie Sanders group. Maybe after the election.

[gobears10]

18. yeah...

i just hope we can unite after this primary mess is over to crush the GOP

[asuhornets]

25. I agree...

[MFM008]

153. yeah me to

for saying he was to damn old. Hey they both are to damn old, IM to damn old....

[CajunBlazer]

232. You are no longer blocked

[Silver_Witch]

120. They are like elephants

they never forget and they never forgive.

You stepped on their feelings and now you are banned.

Welcome to the club. I was not even rude, I made one post, one full of truth and was banned.

They are thin-skinned and can't respond to truth.

[Aerows]

169. Appeal to one of the hosts.

They can unlock you.

Sufrommich is reliable and will likely take the ban off. If she isn't around, I suggest OKNancy.

[treestar]

193. You're unblocked

[Armstead]

8. To each his (or her) own I guess

[smiley]

9. I couldn't disagree with any more.

Nothing about what you wrote sounds even remotely like reality.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

48. Seriously?

[smiley]

52. yes.

But on second though, I think if elected, she may just have a chance to carry out her agenda. That scares the hell out of me.

[Silver_Witch]

124. Me too!

[Ned_Devine]

54. Seriously

[uponit7771]

67. Remember now... a bird on a podium means things has changed for Sander to some of thems

[dana_b]

135. very serious

Hillary is the exact opposite of what we need.

[EffieBlack]

10. Thanks for your intelligent, eloquent and heartfelt post

Despite some evidence to the contrary, I think it is most appreciated by many.

[Trust Buster]

12. You are a wise poster. Welcome aboard the H-Train.....

[CountAllVotes]

13. well good for you

I'm voting for Bernie Sanders and I have not changed my mind and I will not change my mind. It ain't over till its over ya know.

[noretreatnosurrender]

14. Happens Every Election

In my opinion anyone who would switch to Hillary from Bernie wasn't with Bernie in the first place.

[liberal_at_heart]

17. +1

[EffieBlack]

20. Or maybe they have an open mind and don't behave like they're in a cult where a change

of heart is treated as a betrayal or worse . . .

People change their minds. Intelligent, thoughtful people do it all the time

[noretreatnosurrender]

26. You Can Believe Whatever You Want

That's your right. Obviously I don't believe it was betrayal or I wouldn't have posted what I did. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[panader0]

32. No doubt.

How can any thoughtful person's core values flip?

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

95. They can't. This sounds fishy to me. I'll leave it at that.

[Loki]

192. Good morning Elmer!

May I suggest a thought. My core ideals match up pretty close to both Hillary and Bernie, therefor I don't seem to have the problem some have of the bashing the other to make myself feel better about the one who I choose. Now if you want to talk about a complete about change of my core values you would have to consider me a mouth breathing tea party republican bigot. I liked both candidates in 2012,but finally decided on Barack Obama. I wavered backhand forth until I made my choice and I will always feel I did the right thing for me. I made it on my own decision made on my own interpretation of the information available and not propagandize by news media, or the republicans smear machine. Don't belittle someone because they change. It happens all the time. It could even happen to you.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

220. Amen. I have changed my political views also. Being a social worker, it has driven me further to the

left. I am truthfully a socialist but realize that this country is nowhere near that. I need to use my vote in the wisest way possible.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

240. Hi Loki!

But your "core values" didn't change. I've changed my opinion on things due to new information, but my core values never change. My core values align in every way with Bernie's values. My basic core value is that all humans are created equally. No human is intrinsically superior to any other, and every human being deserves a decent life. From that concept looking out to the real world, we are not living up to that basic concept. Bernie proposes common sense solutions to make reality more fair for all of us.

In the end Bernie's vision will benefit us all. There is no debate that supply and demand is backwards. Demand comes first, then jobs and supply. Once we have more people with jobs, and money in their pockets the better off we will be. Bernie has several plans to create millions of jobs to jump start this process. It can be done, but it will take hard work and several more elections before things will start to take off.

Now you can call me naive, or whatever, but that's my position, and I take it very seriously!

[reddread]

35. if steve leser can come around anyone can

[JI7]

38. Obama isn't running this time

[reddread]

39. i miss the point?

did Hillary change her spots?

[djean111]

176. Hillary will never change her spots. Never. n/t

[DesertFlower]

50. well you're opinion is wrong. i donated

3 times to bernie's campaign. i still think he's great, but hillary has a better chance of getting things done.

[Biaviians]

81. frightening and horrific things

[liberal_at_heart]

86. I have seen your posts. Not very Bernie friendly posts.

Last edited Sun Mar 27, 2016, 12:27 AM - Edit history (1)

I have come close to putting you on ignore several times. On further analysis I see you frequent the Hillary group too. You have to be very pro-Hillary not to get banned from that group.

[DesertFlower]

92. let's see those posts. i was banned from bernie group about a week ago --

not because i said anything wrong about bermie but because i said some things to his supporters about not supporting hillary if she's the nominee.

sorry you're not a star member so you can't do a search for my posts. it's good to pay $10 or so and be a star member.

i said this about bernie after i changed to hillary. i'd still be saying nice things if you didn't block me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=147727

[liberal_at_heart]

93. I think it is about time to put you on ignore. Good bye.

[DesertFlower]

96. you can't handle the truth.

[Art_from_Ark]

181. The truth is, someone who donated 3 times to Bernie's campaign

isn't going to switch to Hillary. The notion that she's more electable is ludicrous, given the threat of FBI investigations and indictments hanging over her head.

[DesertFlower]

238. so now you're psychic. i did donate 3

times. if you were a star member you could check my old posts. i'm sure i posted each time i did.

[Art_from_Ark]

254. I'm not pyschic,

but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, either.

[DesertFlower]

261. i don't appreciate being called a liar. if you were a

star member you could search my posts. i'm sure i posted each time i contributed, but i guess you're too cheap to contribute to DU.

[DesertFlower]

112. still waiting for you to show my anti bernie posts.

[Silver_Witch]

125. +1

[DesertFlower]

241. you're so full of it. i don't post much and

Last edited Sun Mar 27, 2016, 08:50 PM - Edit history (1)

i've never posted anything anti-bernie. my problems have been with some of his supporters.

[Avalon Sparks]

158. My husband shares these views with you..

He's not a DU member, we can't talk politics any more, which isn't why I'm sharing ...

It's the get things done part you both agree on .... That I wanted to ask about.

is her war mongering ok with you? I really am interested in your thoughts on that, do you not think that, or is it ok with you! And if so why?

Also she seems supply side to me, and definitely she'll pass the TPP... What do you think.

Because with me, it seems fine even if Bernie doesn't pass one of the things he's promising, it's more about what he will obstruct or keep from m being passed.

I honestly believe with Hillary, the fact she can get stuff done, but it's not shit I want done.

Take your time, but please respond I am interested.

[DesertFlower]

164. well if your husband shares my views ask him.

it's 2:09 am and i'm going back to sleep.

[Avalon Sparks]

248. We can't talk about politics ---lol

Too big of chance of arguing. No worries, if you don't want to respond...

[cui bono]

55. Yup. The differences are fundamental. You simply cannot believe in Bernie and then believe in HRC.

It was laughable when people on DU were pretending to be Bernie supporters and then claimed to switch to Bernie, especially because they liked to blame his supporters for it.

I don't know, this far down the line it would be pretty futile to attempt that ploy. So I'm not sure why this poster is saying these things or if they believe them, but they can't have known much about either candidate or cared very much about policy to switch that direction at this point when it's clear Bernie is electable and has the best likability rating of all candidates.

I do find it 'funny' that it comes at a time when he is starting to make gains though.

.

[bobbobbins01]

79. Every time he makes gains a few of these pop up.

It's getting to be routine. I like to refer to them as sleeper cells.

[Live Bait]

209. Especially when having prior knowledge of certain posters here

and their relationships with other posters.

[seekthetruth]

157. Yep.

[JudyM]

200. +1 You can't *unsee* something so fundamental as if you were Cypher in The Matrix.

Cypher: You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious.

[SammyWinstonJack]

246. Nailed it!

[riderinthestorm]

15. Her climate change proposals doom our planet

I guess you don't give a shit.

Furthermore her foreign policy proposals are Catastrophic.

A no fly zone in Syria guarantees WW3 alone.

WTF?

[jsmirman]

83. You know what? Let's do this.

Lay out for me how her nomination "dooms our planet" vs. how Bernie's nomination will rescue the planet.

Be thorough - I want to see all the steps and all your math.

Show me exactly what he's going to accomplish and show me how he's going to do it, and give me the 4 year, 8 year, and 20 year consequences you attach to these events (you are free to include the environmentally-relevant 80 year, as well, of course). But your logic and your math has to add up.

So, go:

[Silver_Witch]

109. You first...

When people make such demands it is only fair for you to first lay out the same for Hillary...

I suspect you won't however, just like she will not release her speeches or listen.

[jsmirman]

111. Wow. That is some serious upside down thinking

He's the one who made the contention:

Hillary = end of the world

Bernie = savior of the world

So when I ask him to justify this statement, I'm the one who needs to lay out my logic and math first?

What universe do you live in?

[Silver_Witch]

127. I live in this universe as you can see...

I don't believe poster said what you think he said.

I don't see Bernie=Savior anywhere....

Hyperbole can be fun. Have a nice life.

[R B Garr]

113. +1000. He couldn't even get Single Payer passed

in teeny, tiny Vermont. He blames that on the Governor, but he gets a pass on that. No one questions him. It's just constant grandstanding.

[jsmirman]

121. Yes, I am genuinely curious to see the logic chain

on this, with points like yours being pretty good starting points for spikes that can be driven into the ground that the poster will have to additionally logic around.

[R B Garr]

197. Agreed, and it looks like the logic is to spam anti-Hillary comments and gloss over

anything to do with Sanders' inability to enact his own national proposals on a local level. Everything is reduced to anti-Hillary spam and Sanders' is given a total pass.

[djean111]

179. Bill and Hillary could not get health care reform passed by a DEMOCRATIC-LED Congress.

Also, Bernie represents Vermont in Washington. he is not in charge of Vermont at home. But you knew that.

[R B Garr]

189. "he is not in charge" What an excuse.

He's going to have to actually convince people of things to get his dreamlist enacted, including Governor's who he is "not in charge" of. His whole "revolution" is about demonstrating politicians who don't do what the generic "People" want, even though those politicians were elected locally. So that's a contradiction with his own described "revolution" to say that he could not get Single Payer passed locally. According to his own "revolution" vision, politicians can be forced to comply to keep their jobs, but he couldn't do it himself.

If he can't even convince his little state, then he must see the limitations of what he is proposing, but no one ever calls him on it. It's just constant grandstanding.

[djean111]

190. What you are leaving out of this conversation is that Hillary can certainly, likely,

get stuff done - but a Third Way neo-con candidate who is for war and fracking and the TPP and cluster bombs, etc., is not going to do anything good - she will only get done what the GOP approves of. Nothing you can spin about Bernie erases that.

I simply do not think a Hillary presidency bodes well for most people.

[R B Garr]

191. Anti-Hillary spam is not the answer to everything. This was about Bernie,

and his calls for "revolution" and what that looks like. If he can't even get one little Governor to go along with his plans for his home state, that doesn't say much about his proposals.

[djean111]

194. Any "anti-Bernie" mention is, by default, "so vote for Hillary" spam.

Unless you are trying to convince me to vote for the GOP candidate, a Third Party candidate, or not vote at all. And that would be against the TOS, luv.

I would rather none of his proposals get done, than see Hillary get her Third Way Neo-con wishlist enacted.
So your spam about Bernie is pointless, really. There is absolutely no alternative, for me.

[R B Garr]

195. This is just more anti-Hillary spam. And my comment was about his inability to get his

own proposals done locally. So if he can't even get his proposals through locally, that doesn't bode well for his national agenda. That was the point.

Anti-Hillary spam is not the answer to everything.

[djean111]

198. So, let's say, I sign on (bwhahahaha!) to your anti-Bernie spam.

Who on earth should I vote for? Hmmmmm?

The only person left (well, right, actually) would be Hillary. I am explaining, in simple terms, why that makes your anti-Bernie spam moot. Also, that I don't agree with you, and your argument is not carrying the day. or causing people to switch support to Hillary. You should accept that, gracefully, and move on.

[R B Garr]

201. Bernie couldn't even get Single Payer passed in his teeny, tiny state of Vermont.

Yet he's calling for a national revolution where local politicians will be forced to bend to the will of the "People". Yet he couldn't even get that done in Vermont. Yet he's never questioned on this and given a pass. If he can't even convince his teeny, tiny state to implement his vision, that doesn't bode well for his national agenda.

[djean111]

202. And, again, I am terrified that Hillary could get HER national agenda enacted, even a little

bit. For fuck's sake, elsewhere on DU people are saying she should go even further right, to attract conservatives.

Nothing Bernie does, will do, or can't get done, justifies, for me, voting for a Third Way hawk who has more in common with conservatives, and would, IMO, crow about working with the GOP on Third Way and neo-con goals.
Aaaaand - that's it, no matter how many times you thread-jack with your repetitious and meaningless anti-Bernie spam. Have a fantastic day!

[R B Garr]

208. Anti-Hillary spam is not the answer to everything. This is really off the deep end now,

as usual. One comment about Bernie's vacuous and grandstanding ideas about having people harass politicians who are elected on a local level to bend to the will of the "people" and all you can come up with is anti-Hillary ramblings. It's really just ridiculous that Bernie is given a pass like this. How ridiculous that his idea of "revolution" is harassing politicians when he couldn't even do it himself.

Bernie is not anti-war. He's said everything is on the table. He hawks for the fighter jet made in his state, but apparently that's okay. He's not anti-drone. Yet he's given a pass on all that, too. It's really silly at this point.

[JI7]

19. lol

[EffieBlack]

21. I'm really sorry that you're being subjected to snarks and insults

It's undeserved . . .

[edgineered]

22. Stoics like myself are attracted to politicians with consistent records.

Others, not so committed to long term goals, are attracted to politicians who waiver. There should be no doubt as to the strength of your resolution. November is in the future, keep us up to date on your choices.

[CountAllVotes]

24. Yep 40+ years as a Senator is impressive

and I don't see any one else running either side of the fence with more experience than Senator /President-elect (that sounds good!) Bernie Sanders --"Feel the Bern" !

[okasha]

66. Uhm, Sanders has not served as a Senator for 40+ years.

4

[CountAllVotes]

199. Serving the public

Bernie Sanders goes way back as a public servant (from the 1960s). He's been a public servant and has a long career (40+ years) working in various positions as a pubic servant and Senator since 2007. Prior to this time he was mayor of Burlington, VT in the 1980s.

[okasha]

231. Age 40 was when he got his first

full-time job, as Mayor of Burlington. He cast his first vote in any political context then, too--for himself. For the past 34.years, he has been a professional politician, very much like other professional politicians from small constituencies. A bit on the colorful side, but no particular accomplishments of note..

[CountAllVotes]

234. Far more impressive than the competition

Colorful eh? I take it you don't like someone that has worked for the people their entire life.

I do not find him self-serving. He isn't hosting dinners at $2500+ a pop, that much I know!

[okasha]

237. LOL. Actually, I do like someone who's worked for the people her entire life,

starting in her 20's.

Nope, Bernie hasn't kept his promise to raise funds for other Democratic candidates. Hillary can command six-figure sums at fund raisers, all of which, except for the legal maximum of $2700 per donor, goes to down-ticket Dems and running the party itself.

Perhaps you haven't noticed thst Sanders has far outspent Clinton, burning through contributions almost as soon as they hit the bank. He outspent her grotesquely in Nevada, S. Carolina and Arizona, where he lost anyway. Clinton, in contrast, is holding money back for the GE.

Idiosyncratic, if you prefer that to "colorful." We have lots of those in the south and west.

[DesertFlower]

23. i too was a bernie supporter but about 7 weeks ago --

after carefully watching the debates i changed to hillary. i never had anything against her and always said i would vote for her if she were the nominee.

i still think bernie has a great message and will vote for him if he's the nominee.

[delrem]

170. gosh. I'm excited for you, changing to hillary like that. It must have been exciting.

[DesertFlower]

239. it was very difficult. i've always liked bernie and when

he decided to run for prez i immediately supported him, but after carefully following the debates i made the decision to support hillary. i talked to my friend about it. i said "i feel like a traitor". he said "vote with your head not your heart."

i still like bernie and will support him if he's the candidate.

[delrem]

263. I can't even begin to understand.

To my mind, a million dead Arabs is enough. I don't want any more of the PNAC ideology. But Hillary does.

I think there's something else going on, there - keeping these PNAC wars running as they do in their path of destruction - than is being spoken of in the primary campaign. It's bloody well unspeakable.
I couldn't live with myself, supporting that.

I think a single payer universal health care plan for the USA, with room at the top for extra insurance for the more wealthy, would be a good idea and is doable, as it has been proven to be doable in other countries with a similar "capitalist" economy as the USA. Even though it is a purely "socialist" idea. I think that "socialism" and "capitalism" are have been proven to be compatible. Hillary doesn't even begin to understand this. Unfortunately.

These are such large issues that I can't even begin to understand what you heard in the debates, that convinced you to support Hillary.

[litlbilly]

27. Hillary has no liberal wishlist so she doesnt need a plan.

[Cheese Sandwich]

28. I'm getting ready to make an official endorsement soon too

I can no longer remain silent.

[JonLeibowitz]

33. Thank you for informing us of this breaking development.

[Armstead]

53. I'm on pins and needles with suspense

[DemocracyDirect]

61. Could it be?

Another Super breaking for Bernie?

You are super in my eyes Cheese Sandwich.

[delrem]

171. You don't have to say it. You'll endorse Trump. You bastard! /nt

[onecaliberal]

29. With all due respect NO ONE who was really for Bernie would vote for HILLARY.

[noretreatnosurrender]

49. You Got That Right

Bernie has huge wins today and that's when this person decides she can't support him? lol It's pretty obvious what this is about. They didn't get much to cheer about today so let them have their moment.

[DesertFlower]

51. thanks for your respect.

[ibegurpard]

98. I disagree

Vote for I can get. Complete about-face rah-rah go-team? No way.

[Zorra]

101. A real Bernie supporter wouldn't support Hillary even if she gave them

a million dollars to sell out.

[onecaliberal]

104. That right there ^^^

[Zorra]

260. uh-huh

[bettyellen]

250. it's a silly premise, but yeah- most people would take one million for their one vote.

everyone on this thread would. you're not all saints, for fucks sake. your interest is entirely about the "economy" i.e.- what is in your wallet. You'd all go for the cash.

[JonLeibowitz]

30. Do you have any evidence that she is not a Third Way/DLC/Corporatist?

Because I guarantee you her super PACs are receiving substantial funds from corporations, and Lloyd Blankfein even stated he wouldn't indicate a preference for fear it wouldn't have a positive reception by the base.

As for Third Way/DLC:

https://web.archive.org/web/20060207155845/http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253434&kaid=86&subid=85#Clinton
https://web.archive.org/web/20060207230204/http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253696&kaid=104&subid=116



She's a "DLC Leader" FFS! You'll note that Tim Kaine is a frequently discussed VP choice for Hillary.

Your post is unhinged from reality.

[TheCowsCameHome]

31. Thanks, Big Dawg.

The little woman will appreciate your change of heart.

[panader0]

34. lol

[merrily]

40. I'm not sure DU knew you as anything, but now, I know you as a Bernie Butter.

And, you'll go on ignore.

Enjoy voting Third Way. Not many do.

BTW, Hillary is absolutely DLC/Third Way. Do some research.

[MisterP]

41. I'd consult with the women's activists abroad,

but the bullets are making for their hearts and the bombs for their homes

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/3/11/before_her_assassination_berta_caceres_singled

[George II]

42. Good for you, welcome!

[snagglepuss]

43. Very slick, I'll say that. nt

[LAS14]

44. Thanks for the intelligent, balanced explanation.

We need more such thinking in DU, not because you switched to Hillary, but because you THINK. I believe someone could switch in the opposite direction while THINKING, but there's too little of that these days in DU.

[DesertFlower]

56. i agree. as someone who also switched from

bernie to hillary i did a lot of thinking.

[DemonGoddess]

45. K&R!

[Logical]

46. You sure you were watching the same primaries I was? nt

[kerry-is-my-prez]

47. Thanks for being a big enough person to admit to this. While I have been following Bernie for years

have agreed with his income disparity message 100% I just feel that Bernie is not complete presidential material. He does not have anywhere near the credentials that Hillary does. He does not have the temperament to be President. His best role is as an agitator. He's never shown himself to be a team player. I hope he sticks around and continues speaking out and demanding income equality. He is ahead of his time, unfortunately, this country is not ready to move as far to left as Bernie. This country does need to go left and become more socialist but it is only going to happen in increments. We must get control over congress before we're going to get much done.

I have to admit also that I just don't like Bernie as well anymore as I once did. I see a side to him I just don't like - bullying - and a good number of the supporters he has are just downright insensitive and immature - like young, aggressive boys. I don't feel that they are sensitive to women or POC. This is nowhere near ALL of his supporters - there are plenty of Sanders supporters who are wonderful, mature people who are sensitive towards these groups. I have the feeling that many of those supporters are either silent or have left this forum, hopefully just temporarily.

[Armstead]

57. Read about his experience as mayor

It contradicts your assessment of his abilities as a leader.

[liberal_at_heart]

88. Exactly. Not only does he have experience. He has support from Independents and even some

Republicans. Hillary only has the Republicans support if she is going along with increased spending on war and cuts to social services.

[DesertFlower]

59. well said. nt

[liberal_at_heart]

87. Excuse me, I am a woman and think he is wonderful to women. He supports family leave and

equal pay for women. He supports Medicare for All. He supports education. He supports social services such as food stamps, WIC, SS, SSDI, and SSI. He says the decision to have an abortion should be between a woman and her doctor. He is very pro-woman and very pro family. I have seen family and friends suffer at the hands of both parties because of budget cuts to things like food stamps, and SSI. Hillary wants to spend money on war. Where is she going to get the money for WIC, food stamps, or SSDI? Or will she do what so many Democrats do and just cave to cuts to these programs?

[Silver_Witch]

130. +1000

You know what Bernie said. No limits women's choice is women's choice. He also mentioned that everyone wants smaller government until it come to a woman's vagina - then they are all hands on deck.

[Avalon Sparks]

162. Interesting points

Thanks for sharing.

I have a different view on the increment step thing, it's true, change isn't going to happen overnight. Not with either candidate. Unfortunately, I sincerely feel Hillary will take incremental steps in the opposite direction, and the first incremental step toward what sounds like is our common goals, is just to get Bernie elected and take baby steps from there.

Hillary may be Democrat on social issues, but she's far right on fiscal, health care and Foriegn policy (war). im not paranoid, her record speaks for itself

[d_b]

58. lol

[desmiller]

60. ...well

it's your choice. Sarcasms aside. Nothing personal, but for a precaution, I'm putting you in my naughty list because Lord knows how much you'll change once you join the Hillary crowd. So, farewell and good luck.

[Sparky 1]

63. I invite all Hillary supporters to go to . . .

. . . politicalcompass.org.

Take the test there and see where you score.

Then take a look at their chart on the 2016 U.S. elections (link is midway up on the left side of the page).

Then see what you think.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

73. I got -7s and support Hillary../nt

I am under no illusion America will ever look how I want it to be.

[fun n serious]

78. Here's mine, not too sure what it means

https://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2?ec=-3.38&soc=-5.13

[senz]

151. Any system that opposes "authoritarian" to "libertarian" is libertarian.

That is a libertarian test. It is designed to make reasonable people believe they are libertarians for the purpose of advancing libertarianism.

[Stand and Fight]

160. This ^^

My results:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/yourpoliticalcompass?ec=-5.0&soc=-5.74

One has only to consider the nature of the questions. They even sound like they're written by a libertarian. lol

[SunSeeker]

65. Welcome to the party!

[SisterSarah]

68. The following endorsement has been presented by

A Hillary Super PAC

[Sheepshank]

97. Did you sign up just to leave what you think is an insult?

How pleasant of you....perhaps you should have read down thread just a couple of posts before posting and you'd see just how wrong you were. Too bad really, your slip is showing way too early in the game.

[OhZone]

69. Oh so well said, OP! nt

[quickesst]

71. It looks as though...

There are several people replying to your thread that state you never were a Bernie supporter. After looking at some of your past comments I'm convinced that you were a genuine Bernie Sanders supporter. It was easy to do and I would suggest others do the same before calling you what amounts to being a liar. This is the bitterness of the Bernie Sanders campaign. Rather than respect your decision they would exact a price in vengeance using words that are met to insult and belittle. Stay strong. I believe you have made a wise decision.

[aspirant]

74. Infiltrators, keep up the good work.

[jsmirman]

85. Infiltrators to GDP? You know this is not your exclusive playground, correct?

That would be the Bernie Sanders group, where I suspect this poster will no longer be welcome. So if this is an "infiltration"...

[Lizzie Poppet]

75. While I regret your choice, I'm happy to Rec this thread.

That's how these decisions are supposed to be made: with careful analysis and due consideration. Democracy works best when people take that approach.

[jsmirman]

84. Good on you

[wisteria]

76. Welcome to reality

I applaud you decision. It wasn't easy, I'm sure. I came to appreciate Clinton gradually also. You have made a wise change. She will make an awesome President.

[Chichiri]

77. I'm very sorry that they're treating you like dogshit for this.

Nobody deserves that.

[riversedge]

80. "Hillary understands that there needs to be an actual gameplan beyond hoping for some "political rev

I listened to most of his speech tonight. Nothing but soundbites for the most part.


....Finally, Hillary understands that there needs to be an actual gameplan beyond hoping for some "political revolution" to deliver a liberal wishlist. Given that she's spent 30+ years coalition building and gaining support from her colleagues, she'll actually have a chance at carrying out her agenda. .............

[k8conant]

82. Too bad the agenda she'll pivot back to ...

won't be worth carrying out.

[BillZBubb]

90. Uh, I don't know you as anything. As for your Hillary pimping, have at it.

[valerief]

91. No one sincerely goes from Bernie to Hillary. Uh-uh. Gotta register you

for my Forever Ignored Club.

[DesertFlower]

102. people who can't handle the truth use "ignore".

[valerief]

225. Et tu, Brutus? You're a club kid, too. nt

[Scootaloo]

94. Okay.

[Blue_In_AK]

99. Ok.

Everyone makes his or her own decision for whatever reason. I don't really understand yours, but whatever.

[pdsimdars]

100. They should all go work for Pravda . .. . .

You are so funny. I like what someone else called it "pimping for Hillary". . . . ha!

[Trenzalore]

183. One of my Bernie Supporting friends on Facebook constantly post Russia Times Videos

Is that the same as Pravda now?

[whatchamacallit]

103. The artist formerly known as gobears10

So during that long history (280+ posts) of being "a Bernie Supporter" you thought Hillary was a Third Way/DLC/Corporatist, and tonight...

[ibegurpard]

106. indeed

Willing to vote for I can buy.
This is lol - worthy however.

[Nyan]

105. Buh bye

It's been nice not knowing you

[Kalidurga]

107. .....

[EndElectoral]

114. Respect your right to vote for her. Think you're dead wrong, but that's why they have primaries.

[Maedhros]

115. I'm sorry, but what you posted does not seem even remotely sincere.

Last edited Sun Mar 27, 2016, 02:25 AM - Edit history (1)

It reads like just another "I like Bernie, but..." post.

[Ned_Devine]

123. These are definitely planted posts, so let's not kid ourselves

[senz]

131. Obviously.

They got tactics up the wazoo. Probably figure sincerity is a waste of time.

[senz]

126. YES. Reads like it was planned ages ago for a rainy day.

Not even remotely remotely remotely.

This must be a rainy day.

[RandySF]

128. Pro-Bernie = honest, Pro-Clinton = planted

The DU rule.

[senz]

137. Naw, this one's stylistic.

[delrem]

168. Nono! This one is way beyond MineralMan and Bravenak territory.

This one is in the twilight zone.

[jack_krass]

116. Cool story, bro (nt)

[Silver_Witch]

117. Everyone has that right

You are more than entitled to join any candidate you choose and to change your mind to evolve as it were.

I believe if she wins we will see a major war and that woman's healthcare rights will slowly erode as she tries to blend her christian beliefs with appeasing the republicans.

If Hillary wins I hope I am wrong.

Therefore I hang with Bernie a man who believes a woman's health is her decision only - and no one from anywhere has a right to make it for her - PERIOD.

[Ned_Devine]

122. I really like pumpkin pie. What's your favorite pie?

I can easily be persuaded with a Boston creme or rhubarb too. Mmm mmm!

[senz]

133. I'll take the Boston creme or rhubarb. Strawberry rhubarb, heated.

Homemade crust.

There's happiness in that.

[Ned_Devine]

217. Mmm! Heated strawberry rhubarb!

[senz]

219. lol! But this OP is still bogus!

[Ned_Devine]

221. That's why I'm talking about anything but the OP

[senz]

222. ...

imho, at this point, we need to stop kicking it and let it drop. Down, down, down.

[ThePhilosopher04]

129. Not buying it. Sorry.

[Betty Karlson]

215. The story IS a rather generic one that pops up after every time Sanders wins big.

Run-of-the-mill deception comes cheap, in Third Way's world.

[Ned_Devine]

218. The funny thing is, somewhere, this idea was workshopped as a means...

...of possibly convincing others on websites such as this one that it's "ok" to support HRC once you "come to your senses". Then they create a profile on these sites and use them occasionally to make these posts. I never see these types of posts done in support of Bernie, but maybe I'm not looking.

[Betty Karlson]

223. They are there, those who have "Come to Bern", although they are few and far between. They are also

ALL original; none of them sharing the same talking points, motivations, or general composition. That's how you can tell they are genuine.

[NastyRiffraff]

235. Don't apologize

Nobody cares if you're not buying it.

[ThePhilosopher04]

242. Apparently you do considering you bothered to respond.

[NastyRiffraff]

257. Yeah you're right. You're not worth it

I shouldn't respond to inanities. Thanks for the reminder! Buh-bye!!

[aikoaiko]

132. Your story is totally believable.

Hold on to your hat when she turns right should she get the nomination.

[senz]

136. Doubtful the right turn will bother them one bit.

[mike_c]

134. DU is reduced to this....

[senz]

143. ^^^ Thread Winner ^^^

[dana_b]

138. hit & run

so... jokes on us.

[7wo7rees]

145. Member since April of 2015.

DU really doesn't know you at all.

[senz]

150. I never heard of them. Ever. The OP title bears no relationship to reality.

Nor do the contents.

[delrem]

166. gobears10 actually posted some very good articles.

Pro Bernie.

They showed detailed attention and made a very good case.
I was impressed.

But nothing, and I mean nothing, prepared me for this "evolution" in thought.

I'm breathlessly waiting for the sequel.

[ucrdem]

146. Great to hear!

Especially on this otherwise dismal news night. Never mind the sour grapes which are in abundance. Your OP is beautiful and truth can be bracing but better they hear it from you. Anyway happy Easter to you and yours!

[lamp_shade]

148. K&R and welcome to the Winner's Circle.

[senz]

149. Uh-huh, the only losers for the WC crowd would be the American people.

[highprincipleswork]

154. Where's the evidence?

She's not a Third Way/DLC/Corporatist as I previously claimed, and has actually stood up to the Blue Dogs within the party. She's a solid liberal, just a pragmatic progressive.

Whatever led you to that conclusion?

Why do think so many disagree, and with some solid proof?

Hate to say it, but sounds like a refrain I've heard before. If that's your honest conclusion, then God bless, you're entitled to it. Just curious what exactly she did it said to elicit your apparent change of heart. (Not that you're obligated to reveal anything about that at all.)

[BreakfastClub]

159. I see her as a pragmatic progressive too. I think she would be a great president. nt

[blueintelligentsia]

161. Wish you well....sad you missed out on tonights hat-trick..

[delrem]

165. I hope your new employer does you well. Good luck, gobears10.

I think you're a very aware person.

I'm going ....
hmmmm

And I can't quite figure it.

But it was a fork in your life, and you took it.

[John Poet]

172. OIC, this is a "joke" post!

"She's not a Third Way/DLC/Corporatist as I previously claimed, and has actually stood up to the Blue Dogs within the party. She's a solid liberal, just a pragmatic progressive."

That's so obviously false that this HAS to be a joke.



"While her foreign policy chops are well established..."

Is that a reference to her policies "chopping up" various countries?


" I appreciate how she cares about getting the nuts and bolts right."

Like she 'got it right' in Honduras, right? FAR Right!

[delrem]

173. It's like the account was hijacked by The Joker.

[AtomicKitten]

174. But she is a Third Way / DLC/ Corporatist.

Last edited Sun Mar 27, 2016, 06:34 AM - Edit history (1)

And a neoliberal hawk on foreign policy, which is a deal breaker for me. Regardless, mazel tov on your evolution.

[BlueStateLib]

184. sos clinton advocated the same foreign policies as samantha power and Susan Rice

Are samantha power and Susan Rice neoliberal hawks, I don't think so

[AtomicKitten]

253. Truth is tough to digest for some.

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/10/what_hillary_clinton_wants_you_to_forget_her_disastrous_record_as_a_war_hawk/

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/06/opinion/sunday/are-neocons-getting-ready-to-ally-with-hillary-clinton.html?referer=&_r=0

[RufusTFirefly]

178. I kept waiting for the sarcasm smiley...

And there must be a zero missing from your total posts.

For some reason I was reminded of lyrics from a Dolly Parton song:

There's snow in the tropics
There's ice on the sun
It's hot in the Arctic
And crying is fun

[B Calm]

180. I could get behind her if she was more liberal about marijuana legalization.

[seaglass]

182. I remember you as a Bernie supporter and anyone in this thread who pretends otherwise knows

they can do a search on your name which will prove it.

Yes, Hillary, though she has her flaws, would be a much better president than Bernie.

[DemonGoddess]

185. I'm very sorry for the venom

you're being subjected to, for making your choice known, since you've changed your mind. You know, we are all allowed to do that. Change our minds, that is. Initially, I started as a Hillary supporter, but liked much of what Martin O'Malley had to say. However, I stayed with my original choice, after further research. My youngest started out as a Bernie supporter, and is now firmly a Hillary supporter. Again, after researching many, many things. The debates SEALED it for her.

That you changed your mind is not a bad thing, as has been portrayed in some of the comments back to you.

Thank you for your post!

[Trajan]

186. You what?

And you are who?

Nevermind ....

[reddread]

188. a flower has bloomed

maybe a little early, but global warming and landslide weather conditions.

every time a bell rings,
an angel get its wings.

[kstewart33]

196. Thank you for articulately explaining the reasons I support Hillary.

I like Bernie also. He deserves high fives for being consistent in his positions for a long time.

However, when asked for specifics on how he will accomplish his agenda, he does not provide specifics other than a 'political revolution' and raising taxes on capital gains and the rich.

His plan for raising taxes and free college and single payer will never happen because of the Republican control of the House of Representatives where they hold an historic 58 seat majority. That's the largest majority since the 1920s. Political experts agree that it will take from 10 to 25 years for the Dems to regain control of the House because of extensive Republican gerrymandering.

Hillary's agenda - certainly not inspiring, but far more realistic and achievable if you have the skills to work with people to get things done. Hillary has it in spades.

[kstewart33]

216. Gehud, here is one example - free college.

Bernie wants to make tuition free for every student and prospective student. His plan requires that states pay 30% of the costs and of course, Congress must first pass the legislation. There are two problems with this. First, no Republican in the Senate or House will support it because it substantially expands the federal government's role in people's lives. Limiting the size of government is the central foundation of Republicanism. The second problem is that state legislatures must pay their 30% share (many millions $$$) by including it in the state budget. Over half of the states legislatures are controlled by Republicans with huge majorities in many states. They won't pass it. Other states may well not pass it because of serious budget problems. Some states are dealing with huge deficits. I expect that some Democratic controlled legislatures won't pass it because of major budget problems and because providing free college is of lesser concern than other priorities that affect more constituents.

Clinton addresses the problem in two ways: lower the interest rate on student loans and make it easier to repay loans (for example, extend the payback period with no penalties). Secondly, work with universities to lower tuition by reducing college operational costs. A president can actually be quite influential in lower interest rates. As a retired college prof, I can provide pages of ways that colleges can reduce costs. I would wager that Clinton will set up a national consortium that works with colleges on a regional basis to cut costs. She might even tie the awarding of federal grants to colleges to demonstrated reductions in tuition. One other point: she is very concerned about the likelihood that free college will end up closing private colleges and universities. And most of them are small colleges that respond to specific needs. Community colleges will likely go belly up.

Clinton's way is very acheivable. But it's not inspiring or more exciting than saying 'free college for everyone!' The problem that I have with Bernie is that he is promising things that he knows he cannot acheive. Clinton is providing 'here's how we can do it' specificity that actually makes sense. It's more honest but it doesn't fill sports arenas.

[Live Bait]

204. Bye.

Enjoy being an outcast.

[99Forever]

205. That's a shame.

Your title said all I need to know about you and your opinion.

[pandr32]

212. Excellent, thoughtful post!

[islandmkl]

213. your definition of 'super' seems to be mostly based on the fact

that you claim, in your previous posts, strong support for whoever you are endorsing at the time...

I would not presume to question your decision-making rationales, but I would question the actual STRENGTH of your commitment candidate-wise...

you seem to be fervent in support in a literal sense...but in the long run it appears that you are actually straddling the fence and just strongly leaning to one side or the other....

it doesn't require much to change from 49/51 to 51/49....

[DisgustipatedinCA]

224. Do as you will, but your story isn't compelling. There's no arc that explains why you changed your

mind.

[Bjornsdotter]

226. Ok

....I used to like a whopper with cheese, now I don't.

[Hiraeth]

228. good for you. welcome to ignore.

[BainsBane]

230. While I agree that Hillary is by far the best choice

I find your sudden change of heart perplexing. You posted a great number of stridently anti-Hillary threads. Perhaps you can explain at what point you began to change your mind and how this transformation came about?

[Arugula Latte]

233. Yeah, not buying it.

But I do agree with you on the Go Bears part!

[NastyRiffraff]

236. Welcome, gobears

I'm sorry you've been subjected to hateful vitriol in response to a thoughtful, intelligent post.

To everyone who insulted gobears, you know, it's okay to change your mind. Retaining hide-bound views in the face of evidence to the contrary is what Republicans do. (Okay, maybe Libertarians too)

[Seeinghope]

243. That is a pretty little speech that you just presented

But it really doesn't follow thru. Solid liberal? I really think that you must be radical right of that is your opinion. Her foreign policy record has plenty of bad decisions to show her lack of good judgement. Her social platform has hurt minorities and been mediocre at best. Again, you must be more radical right if you think that Hillary Clinton is a viable choice for the left and moderate democrats.

Her nuance that you speak of can also be interpreted as double speak. She'd can say much without having to commit to anything.

The "liberal wish list" is partially comprised of values and rights that have been lost over the decades of liberal values turning into moderate turning into conservative right leaning values. Bernie Sanders wants the Democrats to go back to their roots and to wrestle the control of this country back from the elites and corporations back to the majority of Americans.

As far as the "experience" and Hillary building coalitions......are you sure that you are not a "paid for announcement, for the Hillary Clinton campaign"? Seriously, have you not heard that Bernie Sanders has been involved in politics and human rights since the 60's. He has had a long and unglamorous career of fighting for human rights in Washingtin as well. His goals were not achieving massive wealth as his ooponent nor was it to climb quickly to the top of the ladder. His focus was on his his job of working for the people not himself. His modest lifestyle shows it.

Bernie Sanders is the candidate who has stuck to the purest of human right values for decades, not being tarnished by money and power. He is truthful and blunt. Some say simple. Maybe because the truth is simple. It doesn't have to be nuanced. His values are values that can keep us from falling over the edge. He can take what President Obama has done and pull it further to the left. He won't be swayed or bullied. He has been in the trenches working both sides of the aisle for decades. He is well versed, more so than anyone of his opponents. He is the one.

You really need to reexamine your soul.

[SCantiGOP]

245. "Reexamine your soul" Really??

Arrogance and overreach will not help advance your position or your candidate.

[Corey_Baker08]

247. We Welcome Your Support :-)

[blueintelligentsia]

249. I'm glad she was pragmatic in supporting LGBTQ issues and marriage in 2013 n/t

[WheelWalker]

251. Does anyone know if there is a way to put all members of a group on ignore with one click?

[TheFarS1de]

255. Uh huh ....

[lunamagica]

256. You have chosen wisely

I'm so happy you saw the light.

Welcome to the club!

[Gothmog]

258. Great post

[chervilant]

259. Well, now...

I bookmarked your OP the day you posted it, in order to update my IL. Before I do so, let me make the following observations:

Look at pictures of Bernie's rallies. Look at the pictures of long lines of people waiting to see him. Look at the deluge of posts on social media from people of all ages, all races, all religions and ALL political affiliations trumpeting their support for Senator Sanders.

Millions of us are feeling the Bern, and many of us are contributing to him -- even those of us who can ill afford campaign contributions.

Here's what I get from the Hi11ary campaign: she's not NEARLY as popular NOR as positive as Bernie Sanders, and that's gotta sting. Where are the pics of Hi11ary's massive rallies? Where are the pics of ginormous lines waiting to see her? Where are the countless social media posts in favor of Hi11ary?

You know, Hi11ary MUST realize that she'll NEVER be as popular as Bernie.

So, I hope that Bernie's incredible momentum continues, and we'll all be voting for him in the GE.

(And, in response to "people who can't handle the truth use 'ignore'" -- I sure do like my IL. )

[Persondem]

262. Well said. Thank you. K & R nt