2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum"‘Ghetto’ gaffe highlights Bernie Sanders campaign’s struggle with race"
Sanders ghetto gaffe underlined a persistent problem that may have crippled his bid for the 2016 nomination. He has struggled to connect with black voters, and his choice of words has often undercut a populist economic message that might have resonated with people of color.
Even if Sanders had the best of intentions, it was not his best moment, as evidenced by one of his most prominent African-American surrogates former NAACP chairman Ben Jealous who told NBC News: Sen. Sanders is from Burlington, he grew up in old Brooklyn, he knows white folks live in ghettos.
On Monday, Sanders attempted to clarify his debate statement, telling a gaggle of reporters in Detroit: What I meant to say, is when you talk about ghettos, traditionally what youre talking about is African-American communities.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-ghetto-gaffe-highlights-campaigns-struggle-race
I had assumed he misspoke and that a clarification would be more comprehensive. I was wrong.
Perhaps Bernie should talk to me, a white person who grew up poor in a ghetto, or any number of our black members who are middle to upper-middle class?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I had assumed he didn't mean it, that somehow he said the wrong thing. I guess not.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)notions that haven't been examined minutely in a very long time. Like so many of us. Now, here he is on a national stage with every statement witnessed by many millions. I'm not saying it's okay, they are revelations of his notions, but I suspect he doesn't like what these inappropriate statements are revealing and really would like to do better. If he had time.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Well, that's irrefutable.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)because it's not advice. IMO it's always only ever been divisive FUD.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)but not young people? How do you figure that?
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)But this does underscore how his thinking is rooted and mirede in the 70's.
I know it hurts, but this pretty much sealed the deal on Bernie and the black vote.
I'm not black, but I will quote. Black friend of mine (who actually supports anernie),"oh Bernie.... not ghetto. This ain't "Good Times."
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)...he's not entirely wrong at all. For the very large part of his adult life, and throughout the long civil rights struggle, when people used the term "ghetto," the overwhelming majority meant black ghetto. A similarly overwhelming majority would have interpreted it that way when they heard it, too. I'd even assert that a majority (albeit a much smaller one) would interpret the term that way today.
My point is, it was the primary common colloquial meaning for the word for those years. It wasn't a good meaning, because it ignored the fact that all sorts of people live in ghettos (including, ironically, Jews...for whose experiences the term was originally coined). As happens with folk who have lived through so many shifts of what is and is not acceptable terminology, I think Bernie messed that up, and I don't mind acknowledging that. But any suggestion that this indicates that Bernie is somehow insensitive to the political issues black American raise is absurd, given his record.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He is still talking from a 1960s sociological standpoint to black folks of 2016. He needs help understanding the nuances of our culture but the people advising him are NOT HELPING HIM. Really. I said months ago his staff was failing him. Some are probably just in it for self. The church thing, Ben Jealous knows exactly how to act and told him NOTHING. Just threw him to the wolves. This stuff too. Nobody is correcting him and telling him why his statements are possibly hurtful. They should. I would have practised what to say and not say with him. This is not his area of expertise so his advisors should have stepped up to the plate. She was not that much better, quite frankly.
mcar
(42,307 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Nobody is actually telling him anything
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)with a political campaign/environment where all criticism is blocked out or attributed to nefarious conspiracies. It leaves the candidate with no one to say, you messed that one up. Issue a press release correcting it.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)yardwork
(61,599 posts)The other problem for Bernie is that he's trying to pivot - late in the campaign - to reach African Americans now, when his entire campaign theme to now has been that racism doesn't matter, it's all about economics.
So, in an effort to assure blacks that he really does understand them, he makes this gaffe and keeps making it worse.
For the record, the vast majority of African Americans don't live in poverty. The racism that all blacks face is very real, however. I feel reasonably sure that Bernie knows this. It's becoming harder to believe that he does, though.
Human101948
(3,457 posts)If you really feel bad.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Human101948
(3,457 posts)We have a special ghetto internet.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Human101948
(3,457 posts)I will never make you laugh again if you say so.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)PyaarRevolution
(814 posts)Jews were placed there right before they were shipped on the trains to the Concentration Camps; however, even before this Jews were segregated into places in Europe called Ghettos. They were forced to live in these places for centuries up until the early 20th Century or late 19th Century if I remember correctly, for when they ended the segregation I mean.
In other words it has multiple meanings though in the U.S. it has generally come to mean something somewhat different.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And trust me, it is not just used to describe blacks in the US anymore, The fact the media pushes that as only blacks is part of the problem.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)CalvinballPro
(1,019 posts)yardwork
(61,599 posts)UMTerp01
(1,048 posts)Completely tone deaf on this issue and I'm sick of his supporters thinking that any criticism of their candidate is some sort of conspiracy or we are overreacting.
MADem
(135,425 posts)What I meant to say, is when you talk about ghettos, traditionally what youre talking about is African-American communities.
Aww, gee, living in poverty is now an "African-American TRADITION?"
This is just awful. He "clarified" and dug himself in deeper!!!!
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)if he understands poverty.
I expected him to say, "of course white people are poor as well and live in ghettos. I meant to say white people don't know what it's like to be black in that situation." But the clarification indicates he did mean it. Unless there is more he said that the article isn't including.
MADem
(135,425 posts)People who said "Did I hear that right?" were treated to an explanation that told them, yes, they did hear that right.
smh!
He's a hundred percent correct. You are just making what you want out of it.
MADem
(135,425 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 06:31 PM - Edit history (1)
He neither said or implied that "living in poverty is an "African-American TRADITION."
MADem
(135,425 posts)Let's break that down: when you talk about ghettos
OK, we are talking about ghettos.
....traditionally....
OK--not just once, not as a "new thing," but "traditionally." As in 'customarily' or "in a well-established manner."
And the big finish: what youre talking about is African-American communities
Not French communities, not Arabic communities, not Laotian communities, not Irish - American communities.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)If that doesn't count as twisting his words, nothing does.
Obviously, the idea he was expressing is that the word ghetto is traditionally--i.e., customarily--applied only to African American communities.
MADem
(135,425 posts)OK.
Smh.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)usually it is used to refer to a poor urban African-American community. Or at least that's what Sanders seems to think.
And please don't tell me that you think that he was saying that the word ghetto is traditionally applied to ALL African American communities. Nobody could be that uncharitable in their interpretation of what Sanders was claiming. I mean, seriously, you don't think that Sanders believes that "ghetto" is synonymous with "African American community," or that all African Americans live in ghettos, do you? If you do think that, then I don't know what to say. I guess some people can convince themselves of just about anything when they really want to believe something.
MADem
(135,425 posts)At this point, I don't know what this man is thinking.
I do know that his comments come across like awful clunkers. He is getting push back with regard to his clumsy use of language for good reason. This isn't just a case of "DUers being mean to Bernie."
https://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/msnbcs-joy-reid-sets-bernie-straight-lots-of-americans-know-what-its-like-to-live-in-ghettos/
http://www.vox.com/2016/3/6/11171092/democratic-debate-bernie-sanders-ghetto
http://www.salon.com/2016/03/07/sanders_slips_during_debate_bernie_needed_a_good_showing_in_michigan_but_instead_came_across_as_condescending_and_short_sighted/
There's plenty more where that came from.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)I don't think I am the one twisting words, here. Where does his quote include the word "poverty?"
Again--his words: What I meant to say, is when you talk about ghettos, traditionally what youre talking about is African-American communities.
I do think a lot of people who are not black, or "African American." who have lived in underserved neighborhoods would be surprised by this characterization.
YCHDT
(962 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
On Mon Mar 7, 2016, 12:54 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
He is TONE DEAF!!!!!!!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1436759
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This is a distortion and a smear, Sen Sanders never said "living in poverty is now an "African-American TRADITION?" . Enough with the lies and distortions about both candidates, neither one is racist and both would be fine presidents.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Mar 7, 2016, 01:07 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerter, you need to re-read the post. MADem did not quote Sanders as saying the words you put in quotes. She clearly indicated his words in quotes, then followed with her interpretation of them. Her interpretation is just that--not a lie, distortion, or a smear. And others have expressed the same opinions--MADem is not alone in interpreting it as she did.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's a mischarachterization but par for the course
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is NOT alert-worthy. If you disagree, deal with this poster directly rather than hiding behind the jury system.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: oh geez...
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
MADem
(135,425 posts)revmclaren
(2,520 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)"TONE- DEAF" implies that being Deaf is a problem. People who are Deaf do not see it that way and it is insulting to imply that someone who is being ignorant or dismissive is Deaf.
Just an FYI
MADem
(135,425 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 7, 2016, 09:53 PM - Edit history (1)
how his words (that he apparently cannot hear) sound to black people, or women, depending on his comments, and a larger audience of people, regardless of gender, who find that "tone" problematic.
If being deaf wasn't perceived as a problem by MANY in this world, then no one would sell hearing aids, install cochlear implants, or perform surgery to restore hearing. But these repairs are BIG business. Why 'fix' something that 'isn't a problem?' Surely you've seen videos like this:
I know if I lost my hearing and had any chance of restoring it, I'd do whatever it took. I don't think I am alone, either.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)Clinton people are lowe than whale shit.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This is an insulting response to a legitimate news story from last night's debate. Race baiting is a right wing term. African Americans are overwhelmingly Democrats and therefore the issue was raised in last night's debate. This story contains Sanders clarification of his statement.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Mar 7, 2016, 03:20 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: "Race baiting" is not a right wing term. And this is race baiting. Now had you called the poster on the whale shit reference, I may have agreed.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: As a Bernie supporter, I don't want to see Clinton supporters insulted like this.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I am a Bernie supporter. Referring to Clinton supporters as "lower than whale shit" offends me enough to hide this post. I vehemently disagree with supporting their candidate, but expect CIVIL discourse on a discussion board of this caliber. This is NOT a Republic debate - hiding with the expectation that DU members won't act like it is.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)I lived in NYC in the 70's and poor neighborhoods for POC were called ghetto's probably referring back to the 1920's and 30's in NYC and Chicago when Jews and other immigrants lived in Tenement houses and the term may have come from Europe but was totally Americanized by the 1970's. Even the Broadway Play and Movie "West Side Story" describes what was at that time a Latino Ghetto in NYC.
There's even an Elvis song from the '70's about living "In the Ghetto," which may sound odd in today's times but to a person of Bernie's age and experience he was using it as any place where extreme poverty exists...i.e. Housing Projects, areas where Industry has moved on and the people left behind like in Detroit and Flint are left with nothing. So Bernie using Ghetto was certainly not racist. It was a term that was commonly used that some these days would find fault with to use it against him without understanding the context of his use.
----------------
Elvis Presley In The Ghetto Lyrics
As the snow flies
On a cold and gray Chicago mornin'
A poor little baby child is born
In the ghetto
(In the ghetto)
And his mama cries
Cause if there's one thing that she don't need
It's another hungry mouth to feed
In the ghetto
(In the ghetto)
People, don't you understand
The child needs a helping hand
Or he'll grow to be an angry young man some day
Take a look at you and me,
Are we too blind to see,
Do we simply turn our heads
And look the other way
Well the world turns
And a hungry little boy with a runny nose
Plays in the street as the cold wind blows
In the ghetto
(In the ghetto)
And his hunger burns
So he starts to roam the streets at night
And he learns how to steal
And he learns how to fight
In the ghetto
(In the ghetto)
Then one night in desperation
A young man breaks away
He buys a gun, he steals a car,
He tries to run, but he don't get far
And his mama cries
As a crowd gathers 'round an angry young man
Face down on the street with a gun in his hand
In the ghetto
(In the ghetto)
As her young man dies,
On a cold and gray Chicago mornin',
Another little baby child is born
In the ghetto
(In the ghetto)
And his mama cries
Songwriters: MAC DAVIS
In The Ghetto lyrics © IMAGEM U.S. LLC
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/e/elvis+presley/in+the+ghetto_20048735.html
-------------
Uploaded on Apr 11, 2006
elvis in the early 70s!!!!
"Avaible on Special Edition DVD by Warner Bros"
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)to refer to Jewish communities.
1610s, "part of a city in which Jews are compelled to live," especially in Italy, from Italian ghetto "part of a city to which Jews are restricted," of unknown origin. The various theories trace it to: Yiddish get "deed of separation;" a special use of Venetian getto "foundry" (there was one near the site of that city's ghetto in 1516); a clipped form of Egitto "Egypt," from Latin Aegyptus (presumably in memory of the exile); or Italian borghetto "small section of a town" (diminutive of borgo, which is of Germanic origin; see borough). Extended by 1899 to crowded urban quarters of other minority groups (especially blacks in U.S. cities). As an adjective by 1903 (modern slang usage from 1999). Ghetto-blaster "large, portable stereo cassette-player" is from 1982.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=ghetto
So yeah, he is wrong.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)I can think of few if you don't agree you're showing all of us how it's a double standard
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)who has an OP on Jewish ghettos.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)I'm taking it up with you
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)The word is commonly referred to in the context of Jewish Ghettos. The Warsaw Ghetto, for example. Since Sanders' ethnic origin is from that part of the world, I would assume he has familiarity with it. He had family killed in the Holocaust. Of course he knows of it.
I don't see the problem as about etymology or definition of words, but rather that he seems to see poverty and blackness as synonymous.
His clarification does nothing to clear up that perception.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)another in common American English such as ghetto, should be used per it's etymology? Oh and Bernie said nothing specifically about about Black people-he said white people btw you do realize the folks that kept Jews in Ghettos in the 15th-19th centuries did not consider Jews to be white either
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)was about his own racial blind spots. The question was about race and posed from an African American reporter. He followed Hillary's response in which she discussed the fact she didn't know what it was like to be black and experience racism by saying he agreed. Of course he was talking about African Americans.
Here is the clip. He does in fact say black near the beginning of the clip. http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/03/07/democratic-debate-flint-bernie-sanders-ghetto-racism-07.cnn/video/playlists/2016-democratic-presidential-debates/
I'm not the language police. That isn't my point at all. The only reason it came up is that Bernie highlighted it in his clarification. Frankly, I think the clarification makes the matter worse.
If you want to get to the history of racism against Jews, you should know that no such concept of race as a category of humanity existed in the fifteenth century. People were characterized by religion, not race. Race as a concept, as a scientific category, only emerged with the Enlightenment. Without race, there was no whiteness, blackness or racial Jewishness. There was, however, religious oppression. Antisemitic racism emerged in tandem with racism against Africans. http://press.princeton.edu/titles/7243.html
That, however, has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at the debate last night, nor does the origins of the word ghetto.
This conversation is beyond bizarre. You don't even appear to have paid attention to the part of the debate being discussed. Apparently that Bernie said something is all need to know to declare any and all criticism unfounded.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)What is wrong is the race baiting spin put out by the Clinton camp and her minions. They have no class and zero respect for the real race issues on this country. They want to politicize everything. Zero moral compass.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Really?
Gore1FL
(21,130 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Well, that will come as news to a great many people across America. So all this time Sanders has really been talking about the middle to upper-middle class and not the poor. That is actually the impression I have had. I felt that the campaign was about a very specific class agenda that excluded a great many people. Apparently I've been right all along.
Gore1FL
(21,130 posts)There is such a thing as institutionalized racism.
hack89
(39,171 posts)ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)context, white people do not know what it's like to grow up poor and black and living in a ghetto. Even poor whites have some access to "the system" and don't have the barriers that race carry. Granted, it's not all about income and poverty when it comes to race but what Bernie was talking about is very true. It's a shame we have low life's like Hillary Clinton running for office who will exploit these issues for peronal gain. And her supporters and are every bit as guilty as well for sanctioning it.
KT2000
(20,577 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)and he has had some 18 hours since to issue a press release clarifying what he meant. His only clarification that we know of was the above sentence about ghettos. He could have said racism makes the experience of poverty all the worse, or something to that effect. I expect being surrounded by people who insist any criticism or mere suggestion of imperfection is a conspiracy by Hillary Clinton has not done him any favors in terms of handling these sorts of situations.
This is an article from MSNBC, which has been overwhelmingly supportive of Sanders. This is not a statement by Hillary Clinton. It is a legitimate issue because black voters are important in the Democratic party. This argument that any discussion of race, and now even poverty, is malicious and divisive is not befitting anyone claiming to be liberal or a Democrat.
People here have discussed quotes from the 90s ad nausem, taken one quote after another out of context with no attempt to understand the meaning. And now you insult me and the majority of Americans who do not support your candidate for daring to discuss issues and segments of the population you think should not be discussed. As much as you think the media's responsibility is to affirm Sanders infallibility and assail Clinton, occasionally they will focus on something that suggests Bernie might not be perfect.
I consider some issues far more important than any member of the political elite, and racism and poverty are among them. Now, I understand full well that the lives of the majority pale in comparison to Bernie's career and his supporters determination that he never at any time be subject to any criticism, but not all of us hold such a hierarchical nature of human worth. I happen to believe ordinary voters matter, even poor and black ones, and that this country and its government doesn't exist for the white bourgeoisie alone.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)Svafa
(594 posts)YCHDT
(962 posts)ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)The United States.
What did Sanders SAY...that was Dead Wrong?
Vattel
(9,289 posts)I mean, Clinton pushed for the disastrous intervention in Libya. Sanders' definition of ghetto is too narrow. Gee, who am I gonna vote for?
fleur-de-lisa
(14,624 posts)What he said is true and nothing wrong with it ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1436833
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
The entire post is rude, insulting, and drags discourse down. We don't need this on DU.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Mar 7, 2016, 05:15 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I'm hiding for calling members, minions, claiming they have no moral compass, no class ect. This post was not just a general comment it was directed at a member and was full of nasty insults. Hide it.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Being cut off from society, while being black, is much worse that being, cut off from society while being white. Ghetto means being cut off from society. A black ghetto is an island unto itself. A white ghetto still has bridges out and with choices. That is my opinion.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh, please. There's LOTS of "things" we don't need on DU. A spirited discussion on race is not one of them.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is a trivial alert. You should be ashamed.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"They want to politicize everything..."
I'd level that particular abrogation at the demographic simplistically implying that discussion of race in itself is playing the race card and engaging in race baiting, regardless of how you rationalize it as something other than what it is...
Zero moral compass, indeed.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)And there you have it.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)deal with it. no gaffe, but nice racist spin there.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)YCHDT
(962 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)As it relates to the Jewish exoerience.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)yardwork
(61,599 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)when it comes to Jews and New York
http://www.amazon.com/Dispersing-Ghetto-Relocation-Immigrants-America/dp/0801435226/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1457388819&sr=8-1&keywords=jewish+ghetto+in+new+york+city
http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Ghetto-Studies-Jewish-Quarter-ebook/dp/B00ARK7EUM/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1457388872&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=jewish+ghetto+in+new+york+city
yardwork
(61,599 posts)In any case, your argument seems to refute Bernie's point. He keeps insisting that ghetto means African American.
Svafa
(594 posts)get a much worse shake than poor whites--not to say that life is a bowl of cherries for poor whites, but that just by default because of the color of their skin, African Americans face more challenges. I think that was the crux of his message.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)but his clarification suggests otherwise.
Response to BainsBane (Reply #19)
Svafa This message was self-deleted by its author.
Svafa
(594 posts)I would be interested to know what came after that line; the article provides no context.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)I would be interested to know.
I disagree about the soundbite part. I think he excels at it.
Svafa
(594 posts)quote (unlike if it were at a full press conference, speech, debate, formal interview, etc.). I am still pretty skeptical that he said that, just that, and moved on.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Why wouldn't he issue a press release making clear exactly what he meant?
KoKo
(84,711 posts)are a plague on America. All in the same boat together. That's why the "Powers that Be" work so hard to pit both against each other with Racist Blather to Distract...to keep them from joining together to organize Unions to hit the Mainsteam Mead with facts refuting the "Wall Street Class" that wants to PROMOTE discord between Black & White American Workers competing for Jobs that Wall Street, Clinton, Obama and Bush/Reagan Offshored for years to China and Malaysia, Vietnam (that we had a war with that cost lives of my classmates) and now to ANYWHERE we CAN OUTSOURCE for PROFIT to keep the "People" angry at each other and "Praying to God" to "Save Them" in the Evangelical Churches.
The great DISINFO WARS designed to drive the Poor and Middle Class into the arms of the Trump/Cruz Revolution. And throw in the Clintons who never met a Trade Deal or Deregulation that they couldn't Justify Srewing the American Worker for ...with the help of Union Management that has given up so much for Decades AGAINST their Rank and File.
WAKE UP! No one is going to do better until ALL OF US HAVE A CHANCE TO SUCCEED! It isn't going to come from "Deregulation Clintons or Trump/Cruze.
YCHDT
(962 posts)ecstatic
(32,699 posts)"What I meant to say is when you talk about ghetto tradition, what you're talking about is African American communities..."
YCHDT
(962 posts)Spacedog1973
(221 posts)a compass to help him dig the right way
spooky3
(34,444 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)YCHDT
(962 posts)... to poverty seeing 3/4 of blacks aren't poor.
But go ahead and explain to people why they should just ignore these kind of condescending remarks
pat_k
(9,313 posts)...of African American children are living in poverty. Bernie screwed up.
His clarification, based on the common use of the term is actually correct, but the common use is a problematic generalization, which he should have pointed out. Indicator of common usage found on wikipedia:
Numbers may differ depending on parameters used in a given study, but for the record, here are some stats from 2013 (Source: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/pdf/coe_cce.pdf p.3). Poverty remains horribly correlated with race:
% of children living in poverty
White: 13%
Asian: 13%
Two or more races: 21%
Pacific Islander: 27%
Hispanic: 32%
Native American: 36%
African American: 39%
YCHDT
(962 posts)... poverty to blacks is a meme blacks have been fighting for a long time.
This is... whatever
pat_k
(9,313 posts)Certainly, whites relative to non-whites, are becoming the minority, but the term minority group is also traditionally used to refer to non-whites. Perhaps it's another usage that needs to be dropped from the lexicon.
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)and then later to NBC.
What I meant to say when you talk about ghettos, traditionally what youre talking about is African-American communities.
What I meant by that is, I think that many white people are not aware of the kinds of pressures and the kind of police oppression that sometimes takes place within the African-American community, Sanders continued. In the African-American communities, you have police officers abusing people, and that is the point that I tried to make.
...Yeah, sounds like Sanders is really racially insensitive. Sanders father lived in a ghetto in Poland in WW2, and Sanders lived in a Brooklyn "ghetto" growing up. Maybe the media doesn't like that word, but Rich Boy, Lil Wayne had no trouble writing about the ghetto in his song Ghetto Rich with John Legend. But I guess he's just racially insensitive right?
http://genius.com/Rich-boy-ghetto-rich-lyrics
"Let me take you through my hood where I was born and raised
Where niggas tote semi-automatics, busting them K's
Heavy guns and dope funds and raids by the police
Still getting pulled over and asked by the police
'Bama wasn't made for a nigga to win
See the color of your skin get you put in the pen
It's real life, over dice, Dwayne dead and gone
Sending niggas to the pen or the funeral home
I be feeling like the Lord will never answer me back
So I'm holding on my gat just in case they attack
Bullet holes in your house will make it hard to sleep
You see the fiends on the street want the hard for cheap
A lot of niggas doing life from undercovers and fake friends
It's real how them penitentiary bars'll break men
Niggas doing life from undercovers and fake friends
It's real how them penitentiary bars'll break men
- and then John Legend joins in -
It's where you live, it's where you play
It's where you learn your favorite slang
Your world is ghetto
It's where I live; it's where I'm from
It's where you had to tote your gun
Your world is ghetto"
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)or racism? Please enlighten me as to what is more real.
Renaissance Man
(669 posts)To suggest that many areas within large cities primarily inhabited by black Americans are not classified as "ghettos" and to not suggest that the mainstream has equated "ghetto" to mean "black" or "inner city" or made those terms interchangeable is just laughable. Even liberals do it (even black liberals).
What's getting lost in yet another spin on these words is why these communities are the way they are, and its primarily as a result of lack of opportunity and poverty.
Can we focus on why these communities are the way they are, instead of focusing on whether or not Bernie's words are offensive? Frankly, I find people having to barely scrape by in poverty in the richest country in the world to be more insulting that someone aligning the word "ghetto" with "black," "African-American," or "inner-city."
... but if we were to have that conversation, then we'd have to start talking about the root causes of poverty -- job loss, discrimination, lack of opportunity, outsourcing, deindustrialization, welfare reform, crime legislation, etc.. Frankly, I'm more concerned about why ghettos are the way they are instead of being offended. However, that would require discussion on horrible trade deals, repealing Glass-Steagall, etc. etc.
This paternalistic "you should be offended" spin and politicization of this by the Clinton campaign is downright disgusting. You'd think that just eight years ago she wasn't mudslinging with the Rev. Wright and Louis Farrakhan crap.
Seriously, can we have the real discussion?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)he was talking about growing up in a Jewish Ghetto, American ignorance at it's finest.
Spacedog1973
(221 posts)is also used interchangeably to describe black criminals and black people in general. I respect those who don't subscribe to this 'tradition'. Tackling racism requires us to challenge our choice of words and take ownership of them. 'Everyone says it', is an unbecoming excuse of an aspiring statesman's statesmanship.
Response to Spacedog1973 (Reply #54)
polly7 This message was self-deleted by its author.
YCHDT
(962 posts)that's not in dispute
polly7
(20,582 posts)Spacedog1973
(221 posts)clear on that I would have thought
polly7
(20,582 posts)in the long run. Some don't seem to want any of that mentioned. Being able to parse it down into accusations of racism/sexism/anyotherism they've accused him of from day one is a good way to deflect from what he's been trying to address all his life.
Spacedog1973
(221 posts)Poor Black communities stem from a history of oppression by America as a whole going back centuries and continues to this day. Everyone on this site should know the rest. Being sensitive of these issues and choosing language carefully is telling of ones character. Bernie Sanders as a Jew, should understand how language is used to both marginalise and justify perpetuation of disenfranchised and targeted communities.
Sanders has a lot of rough edges. Do I think this is a major fail? No. But it doesn't help if his fanbase looks at him as a deity that does no wrong. Correct him, make him take ownership and improve. Then move on.
polly7
(20,582 posts)all his life and has fought to stop it. His rough edges don't bother many black people who've spoken up about him - Clinton's superpredator remark - her husband's tough on crime bill, her prison-profit money - how about those edges??
Spacedog1973
(221 posts)It should be impossible for a white person not to see this. You don't get any brownie points for having your eyes open. Clinton's superpredator remark was likewise poor. In case you haven't noticed, she was called out on it. She also admitted that it was a poor choice of words. Everyone makes mistakes, its how you recognise them and move on from them that is the making of you. Bernie, has doubled down on his remarks effectively, has not acknowledged the poor framing of them and his supporters are playing victim. It is very poor optics and plays badly within communities of color and rightly so.
polly7
(20,582 posts)black supporters are calling bullshit on this desperate attempt to detract for what he's been fighting for all his life. I think you're the one with your eyes closed ......... but why do you insist that all black people and everyone else close theirs also?
You never mentioned the 'tough on crime' bill and prison-profit money and lobbying I asked about ...... just the 'optics' and your claim Sanders has never done anything for the marginalized and disenfranchised. How come??
Spacedog1973
(221 posts)that is what I am referring to. Its pointless speaking as though he is resonating with POC when its obvious he isn't.
I guess my 'eyes are closed' along with the majority of POC.
When Bernie or his supporters want to actually learn something instead of stating why they are right, he might make some progress. In the meantime, I guess his low support amongst POC and intransigence amongst his supporters will remain the same.
Good luck tonight. I hope something is learned by the result.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Still nothing on the tough on crime bill that destroyed so many lives, Hillary's profit-prison money and lobbyists?
Your campaign to minimize Sanders' genuine caring for all people (all his life) and ignore those Clinton policies past and present that are marginalizing and disenfranchising and destroying whole communities and lives says it all. You care about preserving the status quo and those policies that make it possible. Good for you. I hope you're happy with that.
Spacedog1973
(221 posts)because the results of the primaries done so far, are quite clear that he has failed to reach out to POC at every opportunity. The breakdown of election results regarding demographics is meant to be a tool for those trying to get elected, in order to improve their message and if necessary, change the tone of their rhetoric. Bernie Sanders so far, has struggled to do this throughout his campaign and it seems too late for him to gain any traction with POC.
I think I'm done with talking with you. I am responding to your comments which you interpret as 'a campaign to minimise Sander's genuine caring for all people'. You then imply that because that I challenge him on his rhetoric that this means that I am somehow a shill for the status quo.
This is the level of discourse that I expect to see on YouTube. I'm sure you can do better than this. But for myself, I have better things to do than wait to find out.
polly7
(20,582 posts)that have devastated whole families and communities Well done.
Renaissance Man
(669 posts)... can we attack the people who lobby for policy that is much more harmful to the community than words used to describe it?
You know, sticks and stones.
Spacedog1973
(221 posts)surely no-one is stopping you. What policy and community are you referring to?
polly7
(20,582 posts)ecstatic
(32,699 posts)uniquely related to black life in this country when he has such a wildly inaccurate / outdated understanding of black life in this country? He is completely out of touch!
YCHDT
(962 posts)... DNC; Bill Clinton and Obama.
Under Bill Clinton a good number of blacks were lifted out of poverty...
I remember a different world the TV show, he's campaign staff should be all fired
Svafa
(594 posts)Spacedog1973
(221 posts)'Black community' as monolithic. It should be relatively obvious that those in prison and those lifted out of poverty comprise of two different groups.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)For once.
Call them ghettos. Call them the 'hood. Call 'em trailer parks (black folks live in those too).
WHY, in a country as rich in $$$$ AND resources as the United States, is any human being living in these places? Why would any human being choose to live in them?
Lack of good paying jobs? Lack of a good credit score? Lack of income? Lack of education? Deemed unsuitable for good housing because they have a police record?
Fix it! Stop blabbering on about whether something is PC, appropriate or offensive. What is offensive is that people are forced to live in substandard housing in substandard commumities that the majority of you would turn your nose up on.
We need your solutions not your spin!
KT2000
(20,577 posts)he addressed the disparity of living as a white person and living as a black person in the US. He told white people they have a privilege that people of color do not. Clearly the most important thing to come out of these statements is his use of the word ghetto which is a throwback to the civil rights days.
Whew - I thought for a minute there that this presidential race might include discussion of disparities in our society based on skin color but I was wrong. Let's get back to penis size and the real meaning of hand gestures while speaking.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)so no one could comment
What would you expect Comcast to say about Bernie Sanders..
This is absolute Bullshit
LisaM
(27,806 posts)It actually made it sound a little bit worse. Especially in Detroit, which has a bunch of bad neighborhoods, but also has a thriving upper-middle class black community in the greater Metro area.
Blasphemer
(3,261 posts)Given time to self-correct, I expected more. Something along the lines of, "White Americans, even those who have experienced poverty, have not experienced the unique way in which poverty and racism intersect for those Black Americans who experience poverty." It makes me wonder if it was an intentional decision to avoid a clarification that might open a can of worms with regards to critiques of his platform.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)if you know anything about the connection of the term to the jewish experience you would understand that.
LisaM
(27,806 posts)and I don't think his clarification helped.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)who insists on using the term only for one thing and one thing alone.
That is what he was calling them on.
Of course the media further spun that. And at this point I am not just finding it transparent, but offensive. I guess it is time to think about moving abroad. I mean that.
MaggieD
(7,393 posts)He truly does not. And unfortunately for him AA voters can easily see that he does not. Also, they are one of the least politically naïve demographics of any voting bloc (IMO).
TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)Interesting.
Vinca
(50,269 posts)Gold-plated "ghetto" living maybe. What a ridiculous discussion.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)It's not that Hillary knows more about living in the "ghetto."
It's that Sanders seems to be mired in the 70's, with references to "ghetto" and "hassled."
It's a matter of connection.
I don't think this will really hurt him, but it sure as hell ain't gonna win over any voters.
Expect the black vote in MI and MS to be be overwhelmingly for Clinton, again.
Vinca
(50,269 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I mean, gawd forbid black people decide what's in their own best interests.
Vinca
(50,269 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)are slim and none?
But enough. Stomp your feet, do whatever.
Good luck to Bernie and his supports today!
Vinca
(50,269 posts)I don't have kids who can't afford college or loved ones who can't afford health care. I don't have anyone in my family who can't find a job or works for minimum wage. It's in my nature to care about what happens to other people so their lives aren't totally miserable. When I look at the proposals from both candidates, it's clear who the better candidate is for all the people.
boythayer
(14 posts)Anyone who disagrees is being dishonest with themselves, or intentionally being PC
ghet·to
ˈɡedō/
noun
plural noun: ghettos
a part of a city, especially a slum area, occupied by a minority group or groups.
The obvious antagonizers are full sing in this thread
Number23
(24,544 posts)Damn.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)I saw way more poor whites in Georgia, but if you ask the white Georgians they will tell you all about welfare queens etc. It is no wonder that Hillary is getting the Black vote.