Paul Krugman: "It's a rough time for progressives who don't believe in magic"

[Cali_Democrat]

My Unicorn Problem
By Paul Krugman
FEBRUARY 16, 2016

<...>

As Matt O’Brien rightly said recently, even the incremental changes Hillary Clinton is proposing are very unlikely to get through Congress; the radical changes Bernie Sanders is proposing wouldn’t happen even if Democrats retook the House. O’Brien says that the Democratic primary is “like arguing what’s more real: a magical unicorn or a regular unicorn. In either case, you’re still running on a unicorn platform.” This is, alas, probably true: the platforms of the candidates are better seen as aspirational than as programs at all likely to happen.

But in that case, why not go for the magical unicorn? A couple of reasons.

One is that there are degrees of realism: a program that could be implemented in part if Democrats retake the House might turn out to be a useful guide relatively soon, while a program that requires a political revolution won’t.

Another is that, perhaps inevitably, the Sanders insistence on the need for magical unicorns has led to invocations of economic as well as political magic. I warned a while back that even Sanders wasn’t willing to level with voters about what his ideals would require — that, in particular, he was assuming unrealistic savings in order to gloss over the reality that quite a few middle-class Americans would be net losers from a transition to single payer. I’m not alone in raising such concerns, and not just about the health plan.

And this could matter a lot in a general election. For sure the Republican, whoever he is, will be offering plans that are obvious nonsense; but if the Democrat is also offering a plan that doesn’t add up, you know that the media will portray the situation as symmetric, even if it isn’t. (And it wouldn’t be: whatever is problematic about the Sanders platform, GOP fantasies are in a whole other league.) This is why it’s important to bring up the criticisms of Sanders now, not wait until later — and it’s also why the campaign’s knee-jerk response of attacking the messengers is such a bad one. It might work in the primary, but it definitely won’t work later on.

Read more:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/02/16/my-unicorn-problem/?smid=tw-nytimeskrugman&smtyp=cur&_r=1

[SHRED]

1. He's conveniently ignoring...

...a change in Congress.

Especially if Bernie gets the nomination and brings in voters.

[Cali_Democrat]

3. ....

As Matt O’Brien rightly said recently, even the incremental changes Hillary Clinton is proposing are very unlikely to get through Congress; the radical changes Bernie Sanders is proposing wouldn’t happen even if Democrats retook the House. O’Brien says that the Democratic primary is “like arguing what’s more real: a magical unicorn or a regular unicorn. In either case, you’re still running on a unicorn platform.” This is, alas, probably true: the platforms of the candidates are better seen as aspirational than as programs at all likely to happen.

[frylock]

5. So since neither of them will get anything done, I'll go with the more likable candidate.

[Fawke Em]

9. And the more honest...

[mythology]

63. Except as Krugman and others have noted

Sanders' plans aren't properly funded except by overly optimistic predictions. How is that honest? How was it honest when he started with a health care proposal that alleged it would save more on prescription drugs than we currently spend on prescription drugs?

That is a form of dishonesty. No matter how much you wish he was right, the math isn't adding up.

[Fawke Em]

65. So, I'm supposed to go with the candidate who thinks

I'm stupid and don't matter.

Yeah...

Fuck that.

[Cali_Democrat]

11. So you're admitting Bernie's proposals have no chance of getting passed

Slowly but surely, you're beginning to face reality.

[AgingAmerican]

15. Yes we can't!

[frylock]

17. Only in the context that Hillary's proposals have no chance of getting passed either..

but why let a perfectly good opportunity to totally misrepresent what a Sanders supporter just said go to waste?

[Cali_Democrat]

24. From the article:

<...>

But in that case, why not go for the magical unicorn? A couple of reasons.

One is that there are degrees of realism: a program that could be implemented in part if Democrats retake the House might turn out to be a useful guide relatively soon, while a program that requires a political revolution won’t.

[frylock]

25. Yeah, I read that twaddle.

Doesn't change my opinion.

[damonm]

92. If you don't support a political revolution, that's perfectly fine....

"But remember that, if you are a female or a minority, that "unrealistic" proposals and "radical" and "divisive" revolutions have benefited you tremendously. At least give Bernie Sanders that credit. If you want the Berniebros to cool their jets, then you should probably compromise a little bit as well. You can start by toning down the "this is not how American politics works" rhetoric.

The Suffrage Movement, the Civil Rights Movement, and the Women's Rights Movement are how American politics worked. Was it incrementalism that brought women and minorities as far as they have come against the entrenched bastions of white male domination? No. It was revolution. Get that, comrade."

https://www.the-newshub.com/us-politics/exploring-the-mind-boggling-hypocrisy-of-bernie-sanders-detractors

[Fawke Em]

22. No.

Slowly, but surely, we're pushing the DI-NOTs out of the party.

[Matariki]

49. lol

hope so

[Hekate]

88. Yup. Going from the Big Tent to the Pup Tent. What a plan.

[DonCoquixote]

42. and you might as well admit

that what little Hillary is pretending to support, she won't, and that she will still be dragged down.

But then again, remember when the ACA was a unicorn? The problem with ideas that get made fun of is that occasionally, they do get in, and whatever progress we enjoy is because the person that got made fun of insisted on going forward. Social Security was another unicorn, and so was the Civil Rights act.

[JRLeft]

51. We should allow the republicans to take the White house and Congress because they're so mean.

[SHRED]

36. Winning the Senate and House would change everything

[Warren DeMontague]

38. So since both platforms are "aspirational", why not support the platform that actually aspires to

Something?


Hillary will probably be able to get some things passed, of course- Legislation mandating that silicon valley only sell products with deliberately compromised security, more money for the military and drug war, that kind of thing.

[uponit7771]

73. Noooo, the house is gerrymandered...there wont be a change till 2020

[Cheese Sandwich]

2. It must be hard for liberals to see so many of their heroes becoming Hillary's attack dogs.

Socialists know Krugman has always been an apologist for Walmart economics and Wall Street cronyism.

[dana_b]

6. he has, hasn't he

I hadn't paid too much attention to him because he's always worn his politics on his sleeve (not sure I like that in economists) but man does he love her!

"Sanders insistence on the need for magical unicorns has led to invocations of economic as well as political magic. "
What a completely unprofessional and asshole-ish thing to say.

"No we can't!! No we can't!! No we can't!!"

[Cheese Sandwich]

14. In 2008 Paul Krugman called Obama supporters venom spewing cult-like hero worshipers

original: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/opinion/11krugman.html

thanks: https://twitter.com/ZaidJilani/status/692159241331826689

[Jefferson23]

19. He honestly believes go with the safe bet, and he is still on that page since Obama.

I like Krugman, but that is where he is coming from, imo.

[dana_b]

28. that's right! I vaguely remember that

it must have stuck in my head somewhere. Yeah, not too classy - I think both Obama and Sanders did/will do just fine without him.

[Major Hogwash]

35. Yes, and I have been a venom spewing cult-like hero worshipper ever since,

Because President Obama has accomplished so much in the face of unprecedented obstructionism.

[AzDar]

41. Wow! I did not remember this @ all. Thanks for posting...

[frylock]

4. Oh good, this dick again.

Keep talking, Hillary Surrogate.

[cosmicone]

7. kick n/t

[MohRokTah]

8. Krugman spreads some facts and truth, again.

Too bad it won't get through the skulls of the magical thinkers.

[Fawke Em]

10. Too bad your skull has been thickened by elites telling us we can't have what other

industrialized countries have.

[MohRokTah]

13. Bernie Sanders is an elitist and has been for decades. eom

[libdem4life]

31. So, do you know any other elitists running on a platform of "Revolution"? I mean you

can't just run in off the street and start changing the system. Sheesh. By that definition no one in politics is qualified. Either he's an elitist...whatever that is... or he's wants us all to have pink unicorns. Quite a gap therein.

[redstateblues]

47. Political Revolution is a bumper sticker slogan

Bernie has no plan. Only a bunch of promises he can't keep. The last Democrat to run on raising taxes was Walter Mondale. He won ONE state.

[libdem4life]

50. Just another...No We Can't. There is such a thing as vision...and it's not pink unicorns.

Oh, and he didn't have reduced health care costs to more than offset it...just a quick note.

Either Bernie has no plan, or he does have one and it won't work, the Republicans won't let him, he's not electable...let's see, did I leave anything out?

FDR had Vision. He got the same crap being slung here...identical. But Leaders don't let the small minds stop them. They forge forward and those who share the vision with them. And by the look at the crowds around the country, I'm not the only one joining him in his vision.

I don't see crowds at Hillary events. In fact I see very little about her events, except when she goes to get more money from The Donors. She has no momentum...she's moving down. She attacks, and Bernie gets more money and voters.

Bernie has momentum and is moving up. And these new debates...he'll get a big haul of money from each, just like the last one. He knows what he's doing and who he needs to help him get there.

PS...that's what the English said, too, paraphrased.

[Fawke Em]

40. Yeah, coz a regular house with a regular kitchen in a regular neighbor is SO elitist.

[DonCoquixote]

45. if beign unwilling to settle

for standards of living that other countries achieve, with less money than we have, then yes, that is elite. Our infrastructure is a joke, yet the Chinese are building bullet trains. Our education is a joke, yet Korea kicks our ass in Math. Demanding more from our government is not elitist. Defending those who like things weak and expensive IS.

[hack89]

26. Few people more elite than a U.S. Senator. Nt

[Glamrock]

29. True true

Like FDR, Teddy, Lyndon....

[Fawke Em]

66. BTW, I LOVE glam rock.

Are you ready, Steve?

[Glamrock]

67. ??????

Steve?

[Bluenorthwest]

58. many are elite who are not elitists, such are the ways of the literate....

Elite: a select part of a group that is superior to the rest in terms of ability or qualities

Elitist: a person who believes that a system or society should be ruled or dominated by an elite.

So the best of any group are the elite, but only the worst are elitists.

[MrWendel]

12. K & R

[Jefferson23]

16. Submit to your masters, what a great message.."realism". lol

Sanders doesn't need to attack the messenger and hasn't to articulate the
costs. I see Krugman does not want to talk about the rising costs associated
with ACA, they are real and center around the problem of a PROFIT DRIVEN
enterprise, health insurance carriers. That is is the Republican mantra right NOW
not in the GE.

[Attorney in Texas]

18. "Surrender Progressives! Hillary's Failed Agenda Will Fail By a Narrower Margin! All Hail Paul Ryan"

[kerry-is-my-prez]

20. Uh-oh. Have the feeling Krugman is going to be another one to be run over by a bus.......

[BlueMTexpat]

39. He's been UTB for some time.

Now they're just backing up and rolling over him again.

[Fumesucker]

21. Very Serious People are very serious

Krugman's the one who popularized that mocking term and now he has become one.

I will be dipped in shit if Sanders ain't giving the establishment conniption fits.

[Eric J in MN]

70. Atrios coined the term 'Very Serious People' and Krugman got it from him.

Atrios hasn't endorsed, but was shocked when Hillary Clinton defended Henry Kissinger.

[Fumesucker]

75. That's why I said Krugman "popularized" the phrase, Atrios coined it but Krugman has the loud voice

[Eric J in MN]

82. Yes, I wasn't disagreeing. NT

NT

[ejbr]

23. Is it magic

for Hillary to produce her transcripts? Contrary to popular belief, many Sanders supporters are not one issue voters. I'd like to know the person I may be voting for is not planning back room deals with the people who wrecked the economy. Is that so much to ask? Or is seeing these transcripts more magic we shouldn't believe in?

[Jefferson23]

27. That's way too big a unicorn to ask for...gigantic even. n/t

[sadoldgirl]

30. Remember:Krugman thought that Obama was

a pipe dream.

And btw he is one economist for HRC,
but 170 others think Bernie's plans
quite doable.

I really think he has become a Third
way economist.

[stopbush]

55. Here we go with the 170 economists lie again.

Look, 170 economists support Sanders plan to reform Wall Street.

That plan has nothing to do with Sanders' plans for healthcare. Why the BSers continue to conflate support for Sanders' healthplan with support for his plan for WS is beyond me.

How difficult is it keep them straight?

There is no mass support from economists for Sanders' healthcare plan. Quite the opposite. There are a lot of economists questioning his numbers.

[EndElectoral]

32. So insulting. I grew up when Presidents had big dreams. going to the moon, civil rights, medicare..

Now we're told, hey it's all magic.

FDR was told his proposals were pie in the sky. Couldn't happen.

I'm tired of pragmatic acquiescence, and choosing a candidate whose policies are wanting simply so they can nominate a Supreme Court nomination who is not nuts.

[Skid Rogue]

33. lol, Krugman!

I've been saying this all day at work, "I like Bernie. He's a great guy. And if he had a magic wand I'd consider voting for him."

[berningman]

34. Krugman is basically the closest to a liberal economic voice that the establishment

allows on the airwaves. It doesn't mean he is a liberal economist. I look forward to hearing from real liberal economists in a Bernie administration. That's gonna make some PUMA heads explode.

[AOR]

37. The New York Times 1% establisment hack Paul Krugman...

pontificates again in defense of business as usual and the status quo.

[DonCoquixote]

43. one thing I cannot get

Hillary is campaigning on the promise to continue the Obama Legacy. Yet, she embraces a guy who never ever ever stopped attacking Obama, because his policies were not sufficiently to the left.

If nothing else, Mr, Krugman owes Obama some apologies, but he is too busy measuring the drapes for his new cabinet office.

[Cali_Democrat]

44. Krugman: Obama One of the Most Successful Presidents in American History

http://www.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2014/10/krugman-obama-successful-president%20

[DonCoquixote]

46. that is nto an apology

that is trying to switch football jerseys after the game when you realize your team just got their ass kicked.

[redstateblues]

48. Be careful. You can get alerted on DU these days for saying

Good things about our Democratic President

[Skid Rogue]

52. It's sad...

People need to pull up the Presidential election maps starting with Nixon's first term and move forward. They need to see how red/conservative this country was when Bill Clinton took it back. How many elections we lost. It's startling. Super scary. You go through election map, after election map... almost all red. When Clinton came on the scene, it looked as if the Democrats didn't have a chance. Since his election, the left has literately raced forward.

[uponit7771]

74. +1, facts are better than apologies

[JI7]

64. not true, Krugman got behind Obama 100 percent when it was clear he would be the nominee

and he has been supportive through his presidency .

i'm sure he would do the same if Sanders wins the nomination.

[uponit7771]

76. thx for this reminder...they leave out the fact it was the primaries where Krigman was most criticle

[Depaysement]

53. Believers in magic

You mean like Dr. King?

Yes, Dr. krugman, it's no wonder economics is often called the dismal science.

[Skid Rogue]

54. um... no

Dr. King believed in God, justice and equality.

I'm an atheist and even I know that.

[Depaysement]

72. Beep, beep

Dr. King believed in God . . .

I'm an atheist and even I know that.

God is magical. You're an atheist so maybe you wouldn't know that.

[Bluenorthwest]

56. He took Obama supporters to task in the same lecturing manner in 08, he's a template pundit....

Hate Springs Eternal
Paul Krugman FEB. 11, 2008

"I won’t try for fake evenhandedness here: most of the venom I see is coming from supporters of Mr. Obama, who want their hero or nobody. I’m not the first to point out that the Obama campaign seems dangerously close to becoming a cult of personality. We’ve already had that from the Bush administration — remember Operation Flight Suit? We really don’t want to go there again.

What’s particularly saddening is the way many Obama supporters seem happy with the application of “Clinton rules” — the term a number of observers use for the way pundits and some news organizations treat any action or statement by the Clintons, no matter how innocuous, as proof of evil intent."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/opinion/11krugman.html

He did a few of these 'I am the serious one listen to me' pieces about the horrors of Obama supporters. So did Joan Walsh. Both are repeating their templates for Bernie. It's sort of stunning what the internet allows you to discover about people. Some of these pundits recycle everything, they really don't make new material they rearrange and change the names to protect the guilty.

[Cali_Democrat]

57. Cool story, bro. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

59. Cool story bro. You say that to be mean spirited and that's ok. You agree with Paul 08? Or not?

He is doing that which he did to Barack to Bernie, shot after shot and so is Walsh.

I would like to point out to the community at large that I have asked this poster not to refer to me as 'bro' because the poster intends it as an insult. This poster persists, and as you can see uses the phrase 'cool story bro' which indicate doubt about the truth of a story when what I am doing is quoting the exact same author the OP dragged to the table in the first place, a quote to which I link as well as date.

So that's the thing. No response but insulting snark. Definitive of the entire Clinton Campaign and indeed of Krugman both now and in 08.


I'm thrilled that you did not care for the Krugman Kontrast Kontest. This is only the first episode!!!!

[phleshdef]

68. I like Krugman but the claim is 100% true.

[uponit7771]

77. then got behind Obama after his nomination

[Bluenorthwest]

84. And? The point is during the Primary Paul always plays this song.....did you agree in 08?

The OP when asked that very simple question has chosen not to answer. Those who are citing his Primary views this year should be able to answer for his views during the last Primary, which were basically the same arguments with the word 'Obama' replacing the word 'Bernie'.

I guess what you are saying is that you and the OP can disagree with Krugman about Obama in 08 but others are not permitted to disagree with him now. But why is that? What's the basis for that claim?


'Cool story bro' is just mean and I've asked that poster not to do that. The poster does it anyway. Of courseKrugman said exactly what I linked. The poster made rude comments rather than respond to a valid point raised. Then you joined in, but neither of you have actually said you did not agree with Krugman in 08. Was he corrrect about Obama and Obama supporters or not?

[uponit7771]

85. No, of course not because Obama could bring in a congess... this time its not possible due to

... historical levels of GOP gerry mandering

[Gothmog]

60. Prof Krugman is so very accurate in this analysis

[berni_mccoy]

61. It's a rough time being Krugman...

He chose the wrong candidate again!

[Live and Learn]

62. Oh crap, back to the unicorn meme. It must be Tuesday. nt

[Eric J in MN]

69. Presidents accomplish some goals. Don't accomplish other goals.

It's inaccurate to imply that none of Bernie Sanders' legislative goals would pass. He's already called "The Amendment King" for how many amendments he passed in the House and Senate.

[Hoyt]

79. Amendments -- riding on other people's legislation. Not very persuading.

[Eric J in MN]

83. Did Hillary Clinton introduce any bills as a Senator which passed? NT

NT

[EndElectoral]

90. Three

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/jun/23/jeb-bush/did-hillary-clinton-have-her-name-only-three-laws-/

S. 1241: A bill to establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site in the State of New York. Bush signed the bill Dec. 3, 2004.

S. 3613: A bill to name a post office the "Major George Quamo Post Office Building." Bush signed the bill Oct. 6, 2006.

S. 3145: A bill to designate a highway in New York as the Timothy J. Russert highway. Bush signed the bill July 23, 2008.

She did co-sponsor a number of bills however.

[Number23]

71. It's a rough time for folks looking at that crowd at Morehouse and seeing that 2/3 of the line ain't

even black too.

The BLACKEST set of HBCU's in the BLACKEST part of Atlanta and most of those folks aren't even black. But that won't stop the from the fanatics and the from everyone else.

[uponit7771]

78. fuckin wow...you serious?!

[Number23]

86. It may have been the angle of the pics I looked at

But more than half that crowd in the line was white.

[Hekate]

89. Yikes. I look forward to the crows shots of the audience inside!

Thanks, 23.

[Kind of Blue]

91. Thank You, Number23 for watching!

[quaker bill]

81. The question is whether "progressive" is

the belief in and aspiration to a state that currently seems unattainable.

Taken incrementally, some would probably still have slaves and women would be unlikely to have the vote, or perhaps have it only under special circumstances.

It simply takes suspending the belief that getting there is "magical" and demanding the full and proper end. It then takes persistence and a lot of work. History has shown over and over again that progress is not made by increment, or by insistence on the practical.

Krugman is bright enough to know this.

Gandhi did not liberate India by working within what the British found to be "practical", he went for the entire unicorn.

[G_j]

87. "unicorn" meme disqualification...