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Wed Feb 10, 2016, 05:59 AM

Why people distrust Hillary Clinton

Since I'm banned from the Hillary Group, and can't reply to a post, I'll just respond with an OP of my own.

Why people distrust Hillary.

First we should parse distrust a bit, as there's more than one kind of distrust:

1. People distrust that she has the judgement for the job.

2. People distrust that she's honest.

There's plenty of reasons for BOTH as we'll see.

JUDGEMENT:

Where to begin?

- IWR
- All the flip flops, including on Dem plank issues like healthcare for all, and gay rights.
- Corporate money for speeches so close to an election
- Doubling-down on a failed 2008 campaign strategy
- etc.

There's so many issues where people look at Hillary's experience and don't see it as a strength. Experience can be good and bad, which is something the Hillary campaign can't bear to consider, much less say out loud.

Any of those reason could be enough to make a voter distrust Hillary. Together they form a pretty awful rainbow of reasons to distrust her.

HONESTY:

- Flip-flopping for political gain
- Huge ethical lapses during her time at State
- Lying about issues around her server
- Playing political games with her speeches
- Pretending almost criticism of her is sexist, Bernie won because he's from Vermont, she's the biggest foe of corporate crime, etc.
- Numerous extremely corrupt looking arrangements and decisions regarding her Foundation
- Handing back 5K to protest Walmart one campaign, then taking 300,000 from them in another
- Etc.

Again, if even one of those makes you distrust her, then she's screwed. As a whole, she's screwed with huge percentage of voters - who do distrust her.

Between the two types of trust there's AMPLE reasons to distrust her. And there's many more in her past. And by attacking her opponent in an area that is HER greatest weakness, she's making her situation worse. Demonstrably.

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 44 replies Author Time Post
Reply Why people distrust Hillary Clinton (Original post)
EdwardBernays Feb 2016 OP
gyroscope Feb 2016 #1
Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #2
Enthusiast Feb 2016 #20
Wilms Feb 2016 #3
tecelote Feb 2016 #4
loyalsister Feb 2016 #5
Major Nikon Feb 2016 #14
djean111 Feb 2016 #23
backscatter712 Feb 2016 #6
eilen Feb 2016 #7
eridani Feb 2016 #8
Human101948 Feb 2016 #13
eridani Feb 2016 #15
Human101948 Feb 2016 #18
eridani Feb 2016 #19
Enthusiast Feb 2016 #24
Human101948 Feb 2016 #27
deutsey Feb 2016 #35
gordyfl Feb 2016 #9
d_legendary1 Feb 2016 #10
kracer20 Feb 2016 #32
d_legendary1 Feb 2016 #37
olddots Feb 2016 #11
ejbr Feb 2016 #12
Enthusiast Feb 2016 #31
MrMickeysMom Feb 2016 #16
Fast Walker 52 Feb 2016 #21
DhhD Feb 2016 #38
WhaTHellsgoingonhere Feb 2016 #17
noamnety Feb 2016 #22
EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #36
billhicks76 Feb 2016 #25
jalan48 Feb 2016 #26
Iggy Knorr Feb 2016 #28
Cayenneman Feb 2016 #29
erlewyne Feb 2016 #30
DhhD Feb 2016 #40
Beowulf Feb 2016 #33
deutsey Feb 2016 #34
asuhornets Feb 2016 #39
DhhD Feb 2016 #41
asuhornets Feb 2016 #42
EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #44
MauriceLawrence96 Feb 2016 #43

Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 06:04 AM

1. The poster child of money in politics

 

suddenly claims to be the biggest fighter for campaign finance reform. You can't make this stuff up.
The Clinton campaign machine has decided if you can't beat em then attempt to co-opt their message.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 06:08 AM

2. it didn't have to be this way.

But she made a conscious decision, as far as I can tell, to signal loud and clear once she got to the senate that she was "Hillary Clinton, moderate", "Hillary Clinton, defense hawk", "Hillary Clinton, values traditionalist"

if it was just one instance, okay, but it was a continual pattern, from the IWR vote to "marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman" to proposing flag burning legislation, for fuck's sake.

it's pretty hard to walk that shit back or imagine that no one is going to remember.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:14 AM

20. Nice post. There was a lot of poor judgment. Piss poor judgment.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 06:12 AM

3. I saw that HRC Group post.

 

Does that poster really have no knowledge about any of the things you listed? Or the fact that those things are an issue for many, even if not for them?

I'm reminded, constantly, of what Bill Clinton said about republicans, "Facts bounce off them".

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 06:23 AM

4. Even the way she presents herself

Because of Bernie, she's leaning more to the left.

Bernie would never change stances because of anyone else.

We know she's capitulating to the voters and will go back to the side of big business if she's elected.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 06:42 AM

5. She also sold out the sisterhood

Where was her concern for women and children when she advocated for the crime bill that removed husbandsfathers from families, thus increasing economic pressure for women and negatively affecting the quality of life for millions of children? To add insult to injury, she promoted welfare reform.

Her contribution to the oppression of women is significant and undeniable, and it turns my stomach to hear her dishonestly trying to write a narrative based exclusively on her work with the Children's Defense Fund.

In a way, it is consistant with her history to have feminist icon surrogates use misogynistic talking points.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:51 AM

14. She also blamed a 12 yr old rape victim for her own rape

Exclusive: ‘Hillary Clinton Took Me Through Hell,’ Rape Victim Says

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/20/exclusive-hillary-clinton-took-me-through-hell-rape-victim-says.html

I don't blame HRC for providing legal defense to a child rapist, but offering a dishonest defense which included blaming a child rape victim for her own rape shows HRC's character is such that winning is more important than ethics, even in the most extreme circumstances. That's why she can't and shouldn't be trusted.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #14)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:23 AM

23. I have seen the excuse that she was just doing her job. Yep. She does whatever the money tells

 

her to do. Now she has HUGE money telling her what to do.

No core to her. Just expediency and calculation. IMO.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:07 AM

6. I'll say it straight. I do not trust Hillary Clinton.

Pretty much for all of the reasons EdwardBernays gives in the OP.

I don't trust her any further than I could throw her.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:13 AM

7. The ethical lapses in Iowa

While adding people to the OMalley caucus to prevent them from joining Bernie's groups and the high handed manner in which her supporters in Iowa concluded that primary might have influenced voters, I also think that the speaking fees collected by an already-millionaire from organizations not only like Goldman-Sachs and Exxon but also collected from Boys and Girls Club of America (one would think that she would be more charitable in that instance....--gives some insight in her character and what it means to have a lot of money to offer her in relation of her time and attention. I don't hate Hillary, nor think she is evil or a horrible person. But I think the political machine that she and Bill have built and the way in which she is open to criticism (not) -- even the statement of actual problems by others is such that she presents an intimidating persona and a tendency to deny them and dig in. As I heard on the radio-- as with many politicians...the angel of self awareness flew over her home without a visit. Criticism is always perceived to be an attack with the Clinton campaign-- and (at least lately) it is answered with a hammer. Now flipping to the Bill Clinton strategy of appropriation, she seems to be trying to out-Bernie Bernie and it is not believable.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:14 AM

8. Part of that is because of all the RW bullshit slung at both Clintons for 25 years

However, her own actions are no help whatsoever.

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Response to eridani (Reply #8)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:40 AM

13. I would say 95% of the uneasy feelings about her were created by the right wingers...

 

One phoney scandal after another. Whitewater, Vince Foster, Benghazi, emails, etc. It's been effective even though nothing substantial has ever stuck. Thirty years of attacks have taken their toll--people have an uneasy feeling that there has to be something there because they keep hearing stuff!

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:51 AM

15. Well, htere's her prior support for DADT, flipflopping on TPP Iraw and other issues

So there are some substantive reasons for mistrust. I've never taken the Benghazi/Whitewater bullshit seriously--it's so transparent. The wingers who do take it seriously will never vote for any Democrat.

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Response to eridani (Reply #15)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:59 AM

18. While there may be substantive reasons, I'll bet that the majority of voters couldn't name any...

 

of those. Most people I speak to, unlike people on DU, have very little interest in facts. Low information voters are the norm for the general populace. They absorb impressions while half listening to the headlines and don't delve an further.

Had a conversation about Christie a few days ago. I asked this guy (successful broker, obviously intelligent) why he liked Christie. "He's a good guy, tells it like it is." There was nothing else that he could come up with.

It is discouraging but true.

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #18)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:07 AM

19. Too true,but the only way to fight it is to have a clear set of values thqt underlie--

--your policy proposals. i canvassed for a transportation bond last year, and one 3 for 3 voter told me she threw her ballot away because she didn't want to waste a stamp voting for just one issue, so I get the frustration with low information.

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Response to Human101948 (Reply #13)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:31 AM

24. I have to take issue with that. Those phoney scandals did not influence me in the least.

What did influence me was when she supported Bill as he signed NAFTA, the Telecommunications Act and Gramm-Leach-Bliley.

That generated much of the uneasy feeling because those pieces of legislation were so destructive to our interests.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #24)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:38 AM

27. You are a well informed voter...

 

Again, I believe that 9 out of 10 voters could not recall those actions and may have just a name recognition of NAFTA.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #24)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:02 AM

35. Same here

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:14 AM

9. I Used To Trust Hillary

I've noticed she's changed around the time she became a member of "The Big Club".

(I'm also banned from commenting on the Hillary Group.)



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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:25 AM

10. Just heard Morning Blow

"Its just so frustrating listening to Hillary Clinton. Her speech last night was I'll get things done, I'll get the things...like what are your issues? Why are you running? Weather we have her on the show to interview her or we see that speech last night, its basically the same argument that some of the Republican side have, who's chances have collapsed."

-Blow Scarborough, 6:17AM

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Response to d_legendary1 (Reply #10)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:56 AM

32. MSNBC is like a new channel

I watched some late last night when I got home, and now Joe Scar this morning, and it is like a new channel.

I told my wife that it seems like they all jumped on the Bernie bandwagon. Like they were waiting for him to win NH just so they wouldn't look bad.

Fingers crossed he will get some more positive coverage on other stations as well.

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Response to kracer20 (Reply #32)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:41 AM

37. I was surprised by Blow's comments as well

Normally this guy talks about how Bernie's chances are nill and none, now its like he's feeling the Bern. But I'm just like you in hoping that he gets positive coverage from here on out. He needs it!

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:32 AM

11. I see in her what I don't like in myself

 

maybe thats a good thing but with Bernie I see in him what I like in myself . ( sorry kinda weird )

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:37 AM

12. I am amazed

at my own transformation. Before Bernie put his hat in the ring, I was firmly for her. Neither of them are perfect. Who is? But as I came to understand her proclivities, I realized that she has been sucked up in the establishment bubble that believes that bread crumbs for the peasants should keep us happy. More war, less regulation will make her and her pals richer. Meanwhile the Democratic and Republican power brokers can play make believe tug of war on social issues while they both laugh all the way to the bank. It's as if we are living in a real world Matrix where some of us stay blind by taking the blue (red?) pill and the rest of us have taken the pill that allows us to really see what is going on.

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Response to ejbr (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:55 AM

31. I think your story is all too common. I was also transformed. I was a true believer during

the Clinton Administration.

"Meanwhile the Democratic and Republican power brokers can play make believe tug of war on social issues while they both laugh all the way to the bank."


Should be written in stone.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:52 AM

16. Let's face it... Who ISN'T banned from the Hillary Group?

That's your souvenir for having the temerity to post there.

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Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:21 AM

21. exactly-- I was banned for the most indirect and bland statement

 

that wasn't even a criticism of her.

Man, those people live in a freaking bubble.

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Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #16)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:43 AM

38. Does being banned from the Hillary Group mean that we can say, on this DU board, that I

am banned from supporting or voting for her in the GE if she is the nominee? HC and her supporters burn their bridges with hit type attitudes and lists.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:56 AM

17. Andrea Mitchell skewered her on the speaking fees last night

 

She said, (paraphrasing) 'What was she thinking? If you are thinking about running, you don't do those, it's going to come back to haunt you. She didn't need the money.'

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:22 AM

22. I debated alerting on your post

 

for forgetting to mention Kissinger.

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Response to noamnety (Reply #22)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:16 AM

36. Lol

That's my bad

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:31 AM

25. Because She's A Filthy Liar

 

Progressive??? What a laugh. She's not even liberal. And looks at young Black boys as superpredators. Yesterday's news. I'll blame everyone here if this neocon is nominated. What is wrong with people who still think we can work within this corrupt system. Their small minds make me sick.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:33 AM

26. I believe it's in the Great Gatsby there's a line about the rich (and powerful) "Not being like us".

The Clinton's are in that group of powerful people. I don't think Hillary realized that taking money from Wall St. firms was that big of a deal, the people she runs with would do exactly the same thing, that's an accepted value of her group. It only becomes a glaring issue when exposed to values of the average citizen when she's running for office. The average person has no idea how the really rich and powerful live and act, they aren't like us. Chelsea Clinton currently gets $75,000 a speech, why? Because she's part of the same group, a junior member if you will in training.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:38 AM

28. Yep, corrupt as the day is long

 

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:47 AM

29. Political calculation

Don't forget about the political calculation of voting for the Iraq War!

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:48 AM

30. Your "Since I'm banned from the Hillary Group"

says it all!!!

They act just like her and I don't trust them because
I was banned for notagreeing with them.

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Response to erlewyne (Reply #30)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:51 AM

40. I am banned too, which means to me that I am banned from even thinking about any Clinton'

running in the Democratic Party for the future. The ultimate flip-flop would be a generational move to the IOP-Independent Oligarch Party.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 09:13 AM

33. Triangulation.

With triangulation as her primary tool for solving problems, I don't have a sense of what isn't negotiable with her. Perhaps women's reproductive rights, but even there I wouldn't be shocked if she would trade away some of those for her own political well-being. That's why I'm skeptical of the Supreme Court argument to vote for her. If I was confident she'd appoint more RBG-types, then perhaps, but I'm not that confident.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 09:56 AM

34. I have to say I was expecting more from her after '08

But as you indicate, her campaign seems to be dredging up the same old tired strategies.

She'll probably get the nomination. Frankly, it's up in the air to me as to whether she can win the general election. But this primary season hasn't done much at all to convince me that she can pull it off or that, if she does, she'll be the president I believe this country desperately needs right now.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:43 AM

39. Because of

25 years of right-wing smear.

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Response to asuhornets (Reply #39)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:55 AM

41. Clinton was a Right Wing Goldwater supporter and Republican during her college years. n/t

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Response to DhhD (Reply #41)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:56 AM

42. ok.

Now she is the Front runner in the democratic presidential race.

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Response to asuhornets (Reply #39)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:19 AM

44. No

I'm a lot more left wing than most people - certainly more so than Hillary, and I believe there's AMPLE evidence she's dishonest... And it's go nothing to do with Whitewater or who Bill sleeps with.

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Response to EdwardBernays (Original post)

Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:04 AM

43. This might help: Hillary Clinton lying for 13 minutes straight

 

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