Pitts: Bernie Sanders VS Obama

[bravenak]

http://www.fayobserver.com/opinion/myron_pitts/pitts-bernie-sanders-vs-obama/article_403978e4-0f38-527c-b0b0-f8f4afedf5b6.html

[stonecutter357]

1. Bernie Sanders is no Barack Obama...

[bravenak]

2. True to the bone.

[Hortensis]

60. Pres. Obama started the revolution

they want to claim for Bernie and themselves.

[bravenak]

61. I see that.

Too bad they're light on delegates.

[EdwardBernays]

10. no kidding

Bernie wants to remove insurance companies out of the healthcare business. He also wants to provide the poor with education opportunities. And he's not chosen Obama's favourite lobbyists to run and finance his campaign - unlike Hillary who hired one as her campaign chairman...

Bernie's not like Obama, and thank god for that.

[stonecutter357]

12. " this posts has been hidden by a DU Jury" DanTex.

[bravenak]

14. Sad that he won't win very many states.

That sounds very nice. Too bad that after NH he will be facing massive losses in State after State.

[EdwardBernays]

17. We shall see

Considering how quickly the polling is changing... It's almost like once people hear him speak they change their allegiances.

[bravenak]

18. Seems that my demigraphic does not share this characteristic.

The black vote in Iowa went Clinton. They heard him speak plenty and remained unconvinced. That seems to be a trend with us. We remain unconvinced.

[EdwardBernays]

20. We shall see

A lot of black folks don't want to vote for a corrupt person... No matter their surname.

[bravenak]

22. Oh so true.

But the Iowa black vote went Clinton, as will the minority vote in every state. We must not all think she is more corrupt that the rest of the politicians.
Besides, we like her. We don't know HIM! That takes YEARS! To close the gap would take alot of attention to us as a group, there is no time left. And I do not see much effort.

[EdwardBernays]

24. you all don't

but then again there's been very little attempt by anyone to explain just how corrupt she is to white people, much less black people or asians, or native americans...

I would HOPE though that - as the information about her corruption - which is pretty irrefutable - is widely available now that people won't need to be spoon fed it, no matter their race.

I'd hate to think that only white folks can use google... and in fact I know that's not true.

I also know that - even in black communities - when people get exposed to Bernie they start to support him, not all people, but a lot... and the longer this goes on, and the more that people learn about how corrupt Hillary is, the more people will see a true option.

BTW: I grew up in Arkansas, my dad worked for Clinton and another family member still does... I have photos of myself sitting on his lap for the State Christmas card... And I went to Little Rock Central High... and I grew up dirt poor.., I'm not just some jerk who woke up and started hating Hillary... I am however someone that thinks that there's no doubt that Hillary is corrupt..

I'll give you an example.

The Saudis (who her current campaign chairman's lobbying firm represents) wanted to get close to 30 Billion in arms from Boeing, while Hillary was Secretary of State. People in State said no, they're an authoritarian regime with a long and awful human rights record, and they'll likely use these weapons for war crimes. The Israelis said please don't, because it will alter the balance of power in the Middle East.

The Saudis then donated 10m to the Clinton Foundation, and Boeing paid Bill 200,000 for a speech.

Then the deal happened.

When it was announced the person at State made it clear that this was a "personal priority" of Hillary's.

After that happened, the person now running Hillary's campaign, who was at the time a "Personal Advisor" to Obama - his lobbying form got a massive lobbying deal with Saudi Arabia.

If ANY Republican did that, every single Dem would call them corrupt... no one would hesitate... and they'd be right... but somehow Hillary supporters see this, and dozens of thing LIKE this and shrug them all off.

It's hard to understand.

Put it another way, if Bush did this, I'd be posting it and starting a petition to demand an investigation... I post about Hillary doing it here and people just shrug... well... Hillary supporters shrug...

[bravenak]

25. Maybe we get irritated with people 'explaining' things to us

The thing about Bernie is that we do not hear what you hear. We are not that drawn to his message. We know. We are the ones who have fought this government simply for the RIGHT to own our very selves. Do you understand what type of psychological effect that has on a group? Having that history? The things he rails about are not as important to us. The banks have been redlining us for decades. Offering us bad loans on good credit. We are already in the place where you are scared of being.
We want equality. Parity. Representation. Do we expect him to offer that? Or her?
We look at their staff to check for diversity, do they offer a hand up to those who look like us? Big stuff matters. That little stuff matters too and immediately. She hires us. Promotes us. Stumps fir black candidates. Come to functions. We know her. Corrupt? Everyone who does what she does gets called names as do we. The more folks trash her, the more we IDENTIFY with her. They say the same things about US.

[EdwardBernays]

28. wait

I do not expect her to give you anything the people she works for don't agree to.

I expect him to try and fight for things - like universal healthcare and free state education - that would make things a lot closer to parity for everyone - no matter their race.

I have NEVER seen the Clintons do anything but offer fake populism.

Bill is rightly seen in many circles as the biggest fake populist of all time.

He fought AGAINST raising the minimum wage. Wal Mart flew him around on their corporate jet during his Presidential campaign.

Hillary has already gotten 300,000 for her 2016 campaign from Wal Mart.

Why you expect people like that to care about parity is beyond me...

Having a few black people on staff, while taking billions out of welfare systems which helped millions of poor people, is pretty much the definition of misdirection. It's optics. It's funny how you don't fall for that with Ben Carson - a black man - but you ignore so much that Hillary does.

And if you read what I posted about Saudi Arabia and think I'm just calling her a "name" then you're truly lost. I am not calling her a name. I am accusing her of being a corrupt criminal. I am accusing her of trying to make herself rich on the back of the poor.

Did you never wonder why the middle class shrunk at the same rate under Clinton as it did under Reagan and Bush? Or were you too distracted by rhetoric and optics to notice?

[bravenak]

30. And I am saying that people put their money where their mouths are.

If you believe in diversity and equality which matters much more to blacks that fighting corruption that we have no power to fight... You prove it by doing.
If you want black voters to trust you, you have to have a staff that bears this out. We notice. We know most politicians are corrupt. And? It has ever been thus.
Calling her corrupt does not help bernie with us.

[EdwardBernays]

32. doing

What has Hillary done? Honestly, what?

If you're just gonna say she's hired a few black people then that's an incredibly shallow metric and you get what you deserve, because you're being played.

And if you think that it's ok to prop up criminals, because they hire a few black people... well.. all I can say to that is WTF? Like literally I do not understand that.

Is it just about voting for whoever has the most black staffers?

Is that REALLY why you support Hillary?

Really???

And again, I'm not "calling" her corrupt. I am openly accusing her of being a criminal. And I am showing you EVIDENCE of it which you won't even acknowledge. Because she has more black staffers than her opponent.

C'mon.

[frylock]

58. Thank goodness.

[NurseJackie]

3. Interesting post. (And very pleased to see you!)

"Who does he sound like?" this woman asked.

I tried to come up with a celebrity or politician who maybe had the same tone or inflection as the 74-year-old senator. I drew a blank. Turns out, she was talking about something else.

"He sounds just like Barack. He's copying Barack!"

[rbrnmw]

4. thanks bravenak

he isn't President Obama.

[bravenak]

6. He sure aint!

[99Forever]

11. Thank goodness.

[bravenak]

13. I know! Obama won.

This time Hillary will win. Yay!!!
Making history twice in my lifetime! And I will be helping! Again!

Once we hit the south, those delegate totals will be insane. I predict that she will win all of the states with the largest delegate totals and have enough by april. Aren't you excited! I know I am.

[99Forever]

15. As will Senator Sanders.

Then unlike Obama, he'll actually work hard for the progressive, populist agenda he is campaigning on

[bravenak]

16. You are so funny.

His coalition is not diverse enough to win the larger population states. Sadly. And my oh my is he ever polling poorly with minorities. She may even be gaining on him with us!

[99Forever]

19. I've heard tons of predictions from Hillarians...

....for almost a year now. Every one has ended up wrong.

Enjoy whistling past the graveyard

[bravenak]

21. I am enjoying it.

Where goes the black vote, goes the primary!!! I made that up, but it bears out. He is polling terribly in the larger states.

[99Forever]

23. I see.

So now you speak for "the black vote."

I didn't get that memo.

[bravenak]

26. I watch it to see where it's at daily.

Some do not care. I do.

[99Forever]

35. So apparently you prefer the candidate that helped form and..

...institute the policies that have imprisoned millions of black Americas for profit and has taken large amounts of cash from that same industry. Is that what "the black vote" wants? The candidate more likely to send many more blacks to prison or off to die protecting corporate oil?


Inquiring minds want to know.

[bravenak]

41. I prefer the one who has a diverse staff and base.

I find her supporters are very sensitive and empathetic to our issues and voices. She builds relationships with us as if we actually matter and she wants us around. She enjoys empowering black women in particular which is very important in acheiving a voice in government. She makes sure to fundraise and stump for our candidates.

[99Forever]

47. I see.

What they say and "how" they say it, is more important than what they actually do.

Alllllllllrighty then.

[bravenak]

48. Hiring blacks IS DOING.

[99Forever]

50. Imprisoning blacks IS DOING.

Sending young men and women off to die for wars of profit IS DOING.

I guess you'll dance past those inconvenient facts again tho.

[bravenak]

53. Exactly. Voting Yes on mass incarceration is DOING.

It was harmful and those YES votes should apologize.
http://www.sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/rd_stateratesofincbyraceandethnicity.pdf

[Arazi]

56. Hillary is in bed with Big Prison

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/7/23/1405229/-Private-Prison-Corporations-Stand-With-Hillary-Clinton

[bravenak]

57. Interesting.

[KingCharlemagne]

68. The arnies HRC sends out to do the dirty business of

empire will largly NOT be peopled by middle-class whites either. Not that this matters one whit to the OP, but still worth noting.

[frylock]

59. Thank goodness for that.

[NurseJackie]

5. This too ...

To be sure, Sanders can still pry away black voters from Clinton - but his approach will need to be more sophisticated and sensitive than what we've seen so far.

I think it's unlikely for such a thing to happen. He (and his hardcore fans) are pretty much stuck-in-their-ways. Besides, any "change" would be perceived as something very cynical and manipulative... and completely insincere.

[bravenak]

8. I agree. Sensitivity conflicts with 'revolution'.

[Cali_Democrat]

7. "Sandra Bland had a job"

Indeed she did.

Thanks for the article.

[bravenak]

9. She sure did. Trayvon was in a gated community.

People fail to think about this.

[DrFunkenstein]

45. In Other Breaking News, People Walk AND Chew Bubblegum At The Same Time

Perhaps there is more than one issue facing the African-American community.

To make a quick illustration, MLK tackled civil rights AND the "Poor People's Campaign." Not the same things, but they were deeply interrelated. I suggest a healthy level of distrust for anyone who tries to make it an either/or matter, like Mr. Pitts has so very cleverly done.

To what end, only he knows.

[thereismore]

27. King: The idea of an African-American firewall for Hillary Clinton is deeply insulting

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-african-american-firewall-clinton-insulting-article-1.2521962

Another opinion.

[bravenak]

33. Read it.

His opinion. He is on team Sanders.
I can see his points but he is a bit myopic on things and seems to not understand the history of certain things.
I think some fail to understand that fighting the establishment dems will cause there to be nobody left to push a Sanders agenda in any way. None of these things are even in the realm possible with our congress. Most districts are not far left and many moderate dem districts are not interested in their rep starting a new healthcare fight. Or a tax fight. Or a free college fight.
His agenda sounds great until you get into the mechanics, and no, having somebody fight hard is not enough for me. It does not interest me. I want justice. Thats the only fight I Have any energy for. Our justice. Equality. Until I see a candidate who is into my thing, I'm not signing up for no revolutions.
This revolution thing only sounds good to those who a feeling it.

[thereismore]

38. Fair enough. Thanks for reading the piece. nt

[SidDithers]

29. DU rec for all kinds of reasons...nt

Sid

[bravenak]

62. Ha!

[Arazi]

31. The media's making the comparison, not Sanders

the entire article is premised on a strawman

Pitts even sets it up in the first paragraph

...the comparison some in the national media keep making.

Sanders isn't doing that at all.

Sanders is the first to admit he has to try harder, better, smarter with POC. I agree

[bravenak]

34. More sensitivity.

Attention to issues not solved by money. Empathy. Interest in diversity. Noticing if we are there or missing. Inclusion. Stuff like that. Intersectionality.

[Arazi]

37. All of the above

[DrFunkenstein]

36. No Mention of Sanders On Predatory Lending, Drug Imprisonment, Environmental Racism, Etc.

Not sure how the "Hillary has black voters in her pocket" argument is particularly compelling.

And Sanders never said that black voters would "get it" eventually. He simply said that states beyond Iowa and New Hampshire were just starting to learn about him. Fairly disingenuous (to put it nicely) to suggest otherwise.

[bravenak]

39. Drug imprisonment stemming from mass incarceration?

Yes. I remember his yes vote. Dissappointing to say the least. And if you mean the Sierra Nevada thing where Vermont was trying to dump toxic waste on brown folks in Texas, I agree, tgat was not nice to ignore those voices. I also oppose the tearing down of regulations.

I find his tone unpleasant on certain issues.

[Arazi]

42. Hillary's in bed with Big Prison and mass incarceration

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/7/23/1405229/-Private-Prison-Corporations-Stand-With-Hillary-Clinton

As immigration and incarceration issues become central to the 2016 presidential campaign, lobbyists for two major prison companies are serving as top fundraisers for Hillary Clinton.
Corrections Corporation of America and the Geo Group could both see their fortunes turning if there are fewer people to lock up in the future....

Richard Sullivan, of the lobbying firm Capitol Counsel, is a bundler for the Clinton campaign, bringing in $44,859 in contributions in a few short months. Sullivan is also a registered lobbyist for the Geo Group, a company that operates a number of jails, including immigrant detention centers, for profit....

[F]ully five Clinton bundlers work for the lobbying and law firm Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld.

Corrections Corporation of America, the largest private prison company in America, paid Akin Gump $240,000 in lobbying fees last year. The firm also serves as a law firm for the prison giant, representing the company in court.

Akin Gump lobbyist and Clinton bundler Brian Popper disclosed that he previously helped CCA defeat efforts to compel private prisons to respond to Freedom of Information Act requests.

[bravenak]

43. I read kos too.

That crime bill sure did open us up to alot of suffering.

[Arazi]

44. Your candidate - mass incarceration AND shredded kiddies

[bravenak]

49. You know that attacking her just helps us sympathize with her, right?

Her doing wrong don't make somebody else more appealing, just like some dude trashing my husband won't make him look good to me. Even if my husband just pissed me off..

[Arazi]

51. No attacks, just the facts ma'am

you wish I were attacking her. Instead I'm pointing out her racism, her bloody hands and her mass incarceration pals.

Sorry the truth stings

[bravenak]

52. Her pals who voted yes?

I agree the bill was racist. Those who voted for it should apologize.

[Arazi]

54. Word salad and non sequitur. Maybe try again?

[bravenak]

55. Sanders was a yes vote.

[Arazi]

63. This vote HAS been explained to you over and over and over

Do you think this actually works for you?



It doesn't fool anyone. The deflection is bizarre. Hillary says black youth are super predators and need to be brought to heel (you yawn), cluster bombs shredding black and brown children around the world (ignore), Big Prison are her biggest funders and lobbyists (ignore) etc etc etc.

Yet you think you're getting somewhere in painting Sanders as the villain for the black community with this easily debunked point...

[bravenak]

65. I want to hear HIM say something.

[Arazi]

69. That's a crock

you're clinging to Clinton because Sanders hasn't brought this up? He explained his vote at the time - you know this. Cali's explained it to you over and over and over. Omaha Steve's explained it,Hootinholler's explained it - I dunno, probably half the boards already done it for all I know

You know why he voted the way he did. Everyone on this board does and playing dumb does not suit you.

Using THIS (especially in the face of Hillary Clinton's obviously troubled votes and stances) is unbelievable. Utterly unbelievable

[cyberswede]

40. He isn't. I wish "some in the national media" would quit making that comparison.

Who, exactly, are those "some in the national media?" Someone needs to clue them in that Bernie is a liberal.

[bravenak]

46. Obama is a Liberal and the fact that Hillary understands that and supports him...

Is why she will win the black vote in every single state. Losing the black vote will really screw a candidates chances to win a primary. The constant criticism of Omama by him is one of the main reasons Bernie gets the sideye from us. Therefore I do not understand the tactic of constantky comparing Obama unfavorable to Bernie. I mean, cool handle, but I just see the outcome will be poor.

[Armstead]

64. The writer has not been paying attention to Bernie

He missed the fact that Bernie spent a day touriung Baltimore with local black leaders, and then held a press conference citing the very problems the writer says are important,including the lack of stores and bank branches in the neighborhood.

He also, in complaining that Bernie's speeches and message are copies of Obama's, ignored the fact that Bernie has been saying these things since Obama was in law school.....And he seems blissfully unaware that Bernie led the Vermont presidential campaign of Jessee Jackson back in the 80's.

And Bernie makes it a point to praise Obama's accomplishments, even as he cites the need to do more.

Once again "Not good enough Bernie."

[bravenak]

66. A day?

Should we have a parade? Ohhh, and he said THINGS in his speech!
How diverse is his staff?
What has he done to ease the issues in Vermont surrounding their terrible record of disproportional incarceration of African americans?
How many black politicians has he stumped for, donated to, raised money for?
How often did he come out boldly in defense of us as a group?
How often does he hold events in minority heavy communities?
How diverse are his events he's holding now?
How diverse is his campaign staff?
Are women equally reoresented among his staff? His high ranking staff? In positions of power? How many minorities are in chief positions of power in his staff today.

[Armstead]

67. I'm not going to get caught in your usual vortex

I said what I said and you are free to disagree. Nuff said.

[bravenak]

70. Nobody answers. Ever.