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Hillary is fracturing the party. (Original Post) cali Feb 2016 OP
She's ahead of Sanders, so more people won't vote for him than won't vote for her - so doesn't that Empowerer Feb 2016 #1
Right? This OP is complete bull. Metric System Feb 2016 #4
Well, she won't win the general election. Fawke Em Feb 2016 #39
People don't trust politicians in general jmowreader Feb 2016 #47
She's ahead of Sanders? Where? JackRiddler Feb 2016 #55
So she shouldn't have zentrum Feb 2016 #80
"...but let's have a little fun with it anyway . . ." Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2016 #105
What are you babbling about? Some of you Sanders supporters would only be satisfied if she dropped Metric System Feb 2016 #2
Look up babbling in the dictionary. My op does not cali Feb 2016 #6
She is not fracturing the party. That is absurd and patently false. Metric System Feb 2016 #11
Two figureheads have come out to support her... intersectionality Feb 2016 #114
They are elderly and out of touch. Time for a new generation...and I'm a Boomer. libdem4life Feb 2016 #117
And Bernie's negative campaigning and smearing and lying won't help him in the general. trueblue2007 Feb 2016 #79
... truebluegreen Feb 2016 #82
I could live with that but, only for the good of the party. juxtaposed Feb 2016 #13
Jury Results, 0-7 Leave Lancero Feb 2016 #17
I was #7... mak3cats Feb 2016 #23
fucking delicate flowers Skittles Feb 2016 #64
Can she? Please? Enjoy her grandkids and make room for a new crop of Democrats? Armstead Feb 2016 #43
Sanders has grandkids to enjoy and 20-something years in Congress (and he is in his 70's) Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2016 #49
she ought to do just that... grasswire Feb 2016 #57
Not as a Sanders supporter... JackRiddler Feb 2016 #60
Luke, it is your destiny. Come to the dark side. leveymg Feb 2016 #95
If she keeps up the bad work farleftlib Feb 2016 #3
It seems to me that it's Sanders and his supporters that have been attacking Hillary, especially on Metric System Feb 2016 #5
It seems to me she assassinated her own character. cali Feb 2016 #8
She keeps digging her own holes - deeper and deeper. kath Feb 2016 #36
Voting is about assessing character. Rilgin Feb 2016 #29
Cluster Munitions - US Department of State ThreeWayFanny Feb 2016 #59
The hard reality is they want the first woman president. zeemike Feb 2016 #65
You need character tazkcmo Feb 2016 #34
Her 2016 campagn is 2008 all over again. She decided her loss was Obama's fault and did not reasses Vote2016 Feb 2016 #7
Except Her 2008 Opponent Was A Democrat That Could Actually Win The General Election... Corey_Baker08 Feb 2016 #76
Her opponent Old Codger Feb 2016 #86
I Hope So Corey_Baker08 Feb 2016 #94
You'll see soon enough that its not about Sanders; Clinton's campaign in 2008 was about her and in Vote2016 Feb 2016 #103
Absoluely right Old Codger Feb 2016 #110
Actually I Have A Great Deal Of Respect For Bernie Sanders... Corey_Baker08 Feb 2016 #118
Oh yeah? Well my candidate can beat up on your candidate any day! n/t Binkie The Clown Feb 2016 #9
Yeah - no. OhZone Feb 2016 #10
1960s called. They want their scare tactic back. Rocky the Leprechaun Feb 2016 #72
You mean like FDR? ... LBJ? ... HST? ... JFK? Trajan Feb 2016 #85
She had a close Old Codger Feb 2016 #87
Maybe you need to read this link passiveporcupine Feb 2016 #98
You don't get what I'm saying. OhZone Feb 2016 #107
Exactly right. Her slash and burn politics is not winning her any votes. Though, unlike you, I in_cog_ni_to Feb 2016 #12
Well said! MissDeeds Feb 2016 #27
I'd say it's Bernie doing that. Now bashing Hillary with the progressive purity test. DanTex Feb 2016 #14
You people came up with that "Bernie Bros" bullshit. What if we were calling you "Hillary Hoo-has"? Lorien Feb 2016 #19
And now, Bernie himself has finally acknowledged that they are indeed a problem. DanTex Feb 2016 #22
Real or manufactured- and it is mostly manufactured cali Feb 2016 #26
He doesn't think it was manufactured. And I credit him for that. DanTex Feb 2016 #28
"You people"? Hekate Feb 2016 #24
The "mistakes" are adding up, and as much of a gentleman as Bernie is to HRC's face, he really needs Hekate Feb 2016 #21
She is indeed. Instead of trying to make an issues-based case Lorien Feb 2016 #15
Maybe this "fracturing" is a good thing? Maedhros Feb 2016 #16
That's how I see it. pa28 Feb 2016 #99
No, cali, Hillary is not fracturing the ACTUAL Democratic Party. Hekate Feb 2016 #18
If that's what you want to call the DLC, which was founded by "ex" Republicans Lorien Feb 2016 #25
Bogus chart, bogus talking points. She's running as a Dem who's been one for 45+yrs Hekate Feb 2016 #73
Defend your characterization of a "bogus chart" please. truebluegreen Feb 2016 #89
Sanders fractioned my sandwich and Clinton sanctioned my french fries! randome Feb 2016 #20
My jaw has fallen open so many times this primary. stillwaiting Feb 2016 #30
My jaw has fallen too this primary, but mostly at the audacity of Sanders' supporters. Beacool Feb 2016 #42
I don't want to hear they give a shit about abortion, LGBT rights, police brutality and racism if Metric System Feb 2016 #50
In life we don't always get what we want. Beacool Feb 2016 #70
Bernie brought millions of voters to the democratic party... Bohemianwriter Feb 2016 #92
I think that barring any eventuality Hillary will be the nominee. Beacool Feb 2016 #101
Put it like this... Bohemianwriter Feb 2016 #106
Wrong! It's that uppity Sanders fella. RufusTFirefly Feb 2016 #31
I couldn't agree more. TIME TO PANIC Feb 2016 #32
What a load. Hoyt Feb 2016 #33
She is. A big reason Bernie has captured 40% of Dems is because they are rejecting HRC. reformist2 Feb 2016 #35
She sure did a good job of alienating a lot of women this weekend. CharlotteVale Feb 2016 #37
Didn't alienate me. I don't accept quotes out of context, either. Hekate Feb 2016 #78
+1 SunSeeker Feb 2016 #90
"Fracturing the party" is saying that millions of Democrats won't vote for her muriel_volestrangler Feb 2016 #38
Oh, isn't that special? Beacool Feb 2016 #40
Clinton isn't fracturing the party herself Hydra Feb 2016 #41
How can the front runner be fracturing the party taught_me_patience Feb 2016 #44
Shocking another evidence free post mythology Feb 2016 #45
Hillary was the corporate choice, the wrong choice. jalan48 Feb 2016 #46
bernie supporters are fracturing the party. I haven't seen this much unnecessary hate and MariaThinks Feb 2016 #48
They attack everything about her and when called on the smears, they say she deserves it Metric System Feb 2016 #53
i just heard her statements in Flint. The fact that bernie supporters are picking on her as MariaThinks Feb 2016 #113
Amen! Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2016 #63
That happens when you vote for an unjust Republican war that killed hundred of thousands. Dawgs Feb 2016 #115
Ugh... mac2766 Feb 2016 #51
But.... she's been helping raise money loyalsister Feb 2016 #52
K & R AzDar Feb 2016 #54
Wait for it. If she loses in the general the Left will get the blame for her failure Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #56
And driving younger voters away. Permanently. wouldsman Feb 2016 #58
She doesn't really care. Hillary is all about Hillary. razorman Feb 2016 #61
Am I on Free Republic? Metric System Feb 2016 #62
Hillary Hysteria is alive and well on DU Skittles Feb 2016 #67
You do know the origin of the word hysteria, right? Chico Man Feb 2016 #100
OMG I AM SO SEXIST Skittles Feb 2016 #109
Hard to tell sometimes Hekate Feb 2016 #68
I've been saying that for the longest time. Beacool Feb 2016 #71
When has she ever said.... Bohemianwriter Feb 2016 #102
Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #66
I concur. Rocky the Leprechaun Feb 2016 #69
If the nominee should happen to be Hillary, will you vote for her? Hekate Feb 2016 #75
Nonsense! NurseJackie Feb 2016 #74
oh boo hoo. She fracturing? NOT. She was first to announce trueblue2007 Feb 2016 #77
Exactly!!! Beacool Feb 2016 #88
That's a joke. The Bernie people are constantly saying that he's bringing in pnwmom Feb 2016 #81
Exactly right. nt SunSeeker Feb 2016 #93
Let's not do this. HassleCat Feb 2016 #83
stop it Liberal_in_LA Feb 2016 #84
Still doing execellent work Eko Feb 2016 #91
hilarious bigtree Feb 2016 #96
More Bernie Bullies Chico Man Feb 2016 #97
Actually, the Sanders Revolution is fracturing the party... Agnosticsherbet Feb 2016 #104
THe CLintons Freactured the Party in the 80's Ferd Berfel Feb 2016 #108
I am saddened by the fact that people dislike her so much they will not even vote if she gets glinda Feb 2016 #111
The fracture between the 99% and the 1% has always been there, IMO n/t eridani Feb 2016 #112
I have felt this way for a while. This is not just the 'party's' fault. They're in on it together. ViseGrip Feb 2016 #116
Oh, come on. Orsino Feb 2016 #119

Empowerer

(3,900 posts)
1. She's ahead of Sanders, so more people won't vote for him than won't vote for her - so doesn't that
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 07:48 PM
Feb 2016

mean that Sanders is fracturing the party more than she is?

Of course, your whole premise is ridiculous, but let's have a little fun with it anyway . . .

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
55. She's ahead of Sanders? Where?
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:08 PM
Feb 2016

By 0.2% of Iowa caucus voters?

By superdelegates who have no obligation to stick to their endorsements?

Because no one has voted. Polls don't count. Did you know? But if you think they do, then you're out of luck, because the latest show them in a tie. Nationwide.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
80. So she shouldn't have
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:33 PM
Feb 2016

…had a single opponent and should have been coronated?

Actually he's beating her in national polls against all Republicans.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
105. "...but let's have a little fun with it anyway . . ."
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:07 PM
Feb 2016

There are young Republicans who wish they were old enough to vote against Bill. Do you honestly believe they'll miss the opportunity to slam down that "R" against Hillary?

Metric System

(6,048 posts)
2. What are you babbling about? Some of you Sanders supporters would only be satisfied if she dropped
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 07:48 PM
Feb 2016

out immediately.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
6. Look up babbling in the dictionary. My op does not
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 07:51 PM
Feb 2016

fit it. And her negative campaigning and smearing and lying won't help her in the general.

intersectionality

(106 posts)
114. Two figureheads have come out to support her...
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 11:03 AM
Feb 2016

And promptly dismantled 40 years of feminist thought. I'm not really sure why people are having a difficult time grasping what "fracture" means.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
117. They are elderly and out of touch. Time for a new generation...and I'm a Boomer.
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 07:46 PM
Feb 2016

Gloria Steinem...I just don't think her mind is working well at 81, and Albright...no surprise there.

Lancero

(3,003 posts)
17. Jury Results, 0-7 Leave
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:13 PM
Feb 2016

On Sun Feb 7, 2016, 06:54 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

What are you babbling about? Some of you Sanders supporters would only be satisfied if she dropped
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1168856

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Babbling? That is OTT rudeness in response to a civil op. This is the kind of behavior that is making DU suck hard lately, and only juries can do anything about it.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Feb 7, 2016, 07:01 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: You set the bait out Cali, don't be surprised when someone bites.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't much like what this poster is saying...but I believe s/he has a right to say it. Leave it alone.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I support Bernie, but if the word "babbling" is enough to warrant a hide, it's not worth being here. Leave it.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

mak3cats

(1,573 posts)
23. I was #7...
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:17 PM
Feb 2016

...so never let it be said that all Bernie supporters are rabid attack dogs. (I prefer cats.)

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,412 posts)
49. Sanders has grandkids to enjoy and 20-something years in Congress (and he is in his 70's)
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:03 PM
Feb 2016

By that definition, maybe we should consider asking him to drop out as well to make room for a "new crop of Democrats"? /s





grasswire

(50,130 posts)
57. she ought to do just that...
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:09 PM
Feb 2016

.....because she knows that she is too flawed to represent Democrats. All the money in the world won't replace integrity and transparency in a candidate.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
60. Not as a Sanders supporter...
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:10 PM
Feb 2016

but as a human being who cares about peace on the planet, one can only hope her conscience awakens and she drops out tomorrow. Wasn't my idea, but since you have brought it up...

 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
3. If she keeps up the bad work
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 07:49 PM
Feb 2016

it probably won't ever come to that. The meltdown is only in its beginning stages.

Metric System

(6,048 posts)
5. It seems to me that it's Sanders and his supporters that have been attacking Hillary, especially on
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 07:51 PM
Feb 2016

social media. Character assassination is what it is.

Rilgin

(787 posts)
29. Voting is about assessing character.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:28 PM
Feb 2016

You post a zillion (well a slight exaggeration) posts a day in support of Hillary.

For the last few days I had an OP asking any Hillary supporter to give one justification for her Vote against a ban on the use of Cluster Munitions in civilian areas. It was a single purpose vote not mixed in with competing goals so is not a gotcha moment. It was just a vote on the use of Cluster Munitions which are a heinous weapon.

Lots of views but crickets from any Hillary Supporter. Why don't you take a crack at explaining to us Bernie supporters how her vote is consistent with being for women and children in the world and is a sign of good character.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511140849

 

ThreeWayFanny

(80 posts)
59. Cluster Munitions - US Department of State
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:09 PM
Feb 2016
Cluster Munitions - US Department of State


Cluster Munitions

The United States shares in the international concern about the humanitarian impact of the indiscriminate use of all munitions, including cluster munitions. That is one of the reasons that it spends more than any other country to eliminate the risk to civilians from landmines and all explosive remnants of war, including unexploded cluster munitions.

Cluster munitions have demonstrated military utility. Their elimination from U.S. stockpiles would put the lives of its soldiers and those of its coalition partners at risk. Moreover, cluster munitions can often result in much less collateral damage than unitary weapons, such as a larger bomb or larger artillery shell would cause, if used for the same mission.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
65. The hard reality is they want the first woman president.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:14 PM
Feb 2016

And they don't care if she is a Margret Thatcher or what, just as long as she is a female.
It's single issue politics at it's best. So don't expect any concerns like that to be addressed.

 

Vote2016

(1,198 posts)
7. Her 2016 campagn is 2008 all over again. She decided her loss was Obama's fault and did not reasses
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 07:51 PM
Feb 2016

her role and has doubled down on all of her 2008 weaknesses

 

Vote2016

(1,198 posts)
103. You'll see soon enough that its not about Sanders; Clinton's campaign in 2008 was about her and in
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:01 PM
Feb 2016

2016 it's still about her.

Clinton can blame her failures on a right-wing conspiracy, or bad on-the-ground intelligence data, or Obama, or demographics, or mean Sanders supporters, or sexism, or whatever, but the common element in every failure scenario is Clinton.

The tone of your post suggest that you don't think much of Sanders. If Sanders is such an unworthy opponent, then why is she not smoking him with a $uper PAC fundraising advantage and every establishment endorsement and the DNC tipping the balance in her favor at every opportunity?

The weak link is Clinton.

Clinton's campaign is about Clinton, while Sanders' campaign is about beliefs and those of us who share those beliefs. If Sanders had not run, but Elizabeth Warren ran on the same platform, Clinton would be in the same hole. If Clinton was not a triangulating status quo centrist, and -- instead -- she had been a dove and not a hawk and progressive like FDR or JFK or LBJ who didn't get "things" done but accomplished progressive goals and not someone whose ideology is falls somewhere between Nixon and Ford, then she would not be in the position she is in.

Clinton's weakness in 2008 and in 2016 was and is not because she faced and faces an unbeatable challenger in in either election. Clinton's weakness is Clinton and she's worse now than she was in 2008.

 

Old Codger

(4,205 posts)
110. Absoluely right
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:37 PM
Feb 2016

Nothing else matters really she is the be-all and end-all of her campaign win or lose it is on her...and since she didn't make the necessary changes since 08 it is way past the chance to do so now, just be more flip flopping

Corey_Baker08

(2,157 posts)
118. Actually I Have A Great Deal Of Respect For Bernie Sanders...
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 02:09 PM
Feb 2016

In fact I have no doubt in my mind that he would make a better President than Hillary Clinton However I Can't Help But Think If He Is The Democratic Nominee We Run A Much Much Greater Risk Of A Republican Winning the White House...

I Think It's Respectable That Bernie Doesn't Have Nor Want A Super PAC, but I don't think it's very rational or plausible in 2016 that he could run a viable 50 state National Campaign against a Billionaire while only relying on small Campaign Contributions.

Listen, I Will Work My Heart Out For Whomever The Nominee Of The Democratic Party Is...

In My Opinion Though The Fact That The 45th President Will Be Responsible for Seating 3 or More Supreme Court Justices Scares the Hell Out Of Me At The Thought That It Could Actually Be A Republican Nominating Them & I Believe The Risks of That Becoming A Reality Will Increase Greatly If Sanders is our Nominee.

Don't Get Me Wrong I Like & Respect Bernie Sanders but his Campaign has some major holes in it. For one its great that young people like myself are participating in the primary elections and voting in droves for Bernie, But Unfortunately We've Been Through This Before, Will They Actually Show Up On Election Day? Again I Agree with Bernie Sanders that we need to End Citizens United & Reform Our Campaign Finance Laws which he has made a central theme in his Campaign, but with all due respect the poor, the middle class, the Working Class & Even The Youth Are Way More Worried About The Economy, Climate Change, Healthcare, Foreign Policy & Soo Much More, Its Not An Issue That Will Sway A Single Voter.

Also Yes It's Commendable That Bernie Sanders Doesn't Have Nor Want A Super PAC, It's Commendable That Bernie Sanders Refuses To Hold High Dollar Fundraisers Or Take A Single Cent From The Rich, While Its Commendable It's Certainly Not Rational When He Is Going To Be Running Against A Billionaire With Unlimited Money To Spend. You Can't Run A Winning National Campaign While Depending On Contributions That Average $27, not in this Election, Not in 2016, Not Until We End Citizens United & Have Real Campaign Finance Reform...

We Need A Candidate That Is Capable Of Running A 50 State Campaign Who Has The Funding & The Resources To Compete Against A Billionaire...

OhZone

(3,212 posts)
10. Yeah - no.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 07:53 PM
Feb 2016

There aren't millions of Socialists waiting to see if a SOCIALIST could actually win a couple of states.

 

Trajan

(19,089 posts)
85. You mean like FDR? ... LBJ? ... HST? ... JFK?
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:36 PM
Feb 2016

That would be a shame, wouldn't it? ...

Maybe we can vote for John Birch ... He HATED those guys ...

 

Old Codger

(4,205 posts)
87. She had a close
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:39 PM
Feb 2016

Call in Iowa and really probably lost there and she is already on the ropes...She is a bye bye..

OhZone

(3,212 posts)
107. You don't get what I'm saying.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:23 PM
Feb 2016

Bernie is not Obama. There aren't as many people waiting to see if someone like him could actually win a state or two before voting for him.

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
12. Exactly right. Her slash and burn politics is not winning her any votes. Though, unlike you, I
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 07:55 PM
Feb 2016

believe Bernie WILL be the nominee, so HRH won't be "needing" any votes for anything.

She runs some if the dirtiest, filthiest, sleaziest campaigns I've ever seen and I've been voting a long, long time. Thankfully, Bernie expected this and is fully prepared for it. He's still standing.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
14. I'd say it's Bernie doing that. Now bashing Hillary with the progressive purity test.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:09 PM
Feb 2016

And he's finally taken notice of the "Bernie Bros" this weekend, but unless he really makes an effort to reign that stuff in, it could be too little to late.

Lorien

(31,935 posts)
19. You people came up with that "Bernie Bros" bullshit. What if we were calling you "Hillary Hoo-has"?
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:15 PM
Feb 2016

I've seen very little nastiness come from *actual* Bernie supporters, but a lot come from Republicans who jump on to any post about Hillary. Hillary supporters have been arrogant and incredibly condescending from the beginning. If your candidate takes the primary, you'll have YOURSELVES to blame when she loses in the general election.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
22. And now, Bernie himself has finally acknowledged that they are indeed a problem.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:17 PM
Feb 2016

Like I said, this is a good first step, an indication that he does take it seriously, but he needs to do something more to put it to an end, or there really is a risk of dividing the party for the general election.

Hekate

(90,683 posts)
21. The "mistakes" are adding up, and as much of a gentleman as Bernie is to HRC's face, he really needs
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:17 PM
Feb 2016

...to rein in his campaign staff and volunteers. They are the ones besmirching his name; no one else.

Lorien

(31,935 posts)
15. She is indeed. Instead of trying to make an issues-based case
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:09 PM
Feb 2016

for herself that might sway voters, she and her surrogates scold and threaten us. "No we can't" is NOT a good campaign slogan. Neither is "vote for me because I want to be the first female President! If you don't, then you just want a boy's attention and you'll burn in Hell!" or "You had better vote for me or you'll be stuck with President Trump!". Voters are DONE with the "lesser of evils" bullshit. We're not playing that game again. Make your case based on the issue and her platform, not just because you "like her", think it's "her turn", or have some twisted anti-feminist belief that a having a vagina automatically makes one a better option.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
16. Maybe this "fracturing" is a good thing?
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:12 PM
Feb 2016

It's preferable to everyone falling in line behind the Third Way.

It's time we ripped the mask of these impostors and expose them for the charlatans they are.

pa28

(6,145 posts)
99. That's how I see it.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:52 PM
Feb 2016

Ingrained corruption in the Democratic party and the fictional progressives who practice it are being forced into the open on a daily basis now.

We're watching a house cleaning and it never would have happened without Bernie's presence in this race.

Lorien

(31,935 posts)
25. If that's what you want to call the DLC, which was founded by "ex" Republicans
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:20 PM
Feb 2016

to destroy the party from within by moving it to the right. Mission accomplished! It no longer resembles the party that I knew in the 1970s. So now REAL DEMOCRATS who are left of center will either have to take back the party or let it wither and decay while forming a new one. The pro corporate, anti-worker anti-environment agenda of the DLC isn't working for anyone but the 0.01%.


Hekate

(90,683 posts)
73. Bogus chart, bogus talking points. She's running as a Dem who's been one for 45+yrs
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:24 PM
Feb 2016

As opposed to another candidate who's been a Dem for about 45 days.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
89. Defend your characterization of a "bogus chart" please.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:40 PM
Feb 2016

Here's the site: political compass.org

I'm curious: what is your criteria, and if you dare, what is your score?







Or do you only care about labels.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
20. Sanders fractioned my sandwich and Clinton sanctioned my french fries!
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:15 PM
Feb 2016

[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

stillwaiting

(3,795 posts)
30. My jaw has fallen open so many times this primary.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:28 PM
Feb 2016

We have to get Bernie the win in the primary.

It's the ONLY way we have a chance at the White House.

Hillary is not going to get the youth, independents, and after this primary some progressives won't be able to vote for her either.

I will HATE voting for her, but I will. I have always been able to get quite a number of votes for the Democratic candidate from friends and family in every prior election, but everyone that knows me already knows I don't trust HRC. They have already told me to not even try to get them to vote for her.

From my personal perspective, HRC doesn't have a chance.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
42. My jaw has fallen too this primary, but mostly at the audacity of Sanders' supporters.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 09:46 PM
Feb 2016

If the precious young of this country choose to stay home if Hillary wins the nomination, they can go and jump off a short pier. They can stomp their feet and run to the internet to spread their special brand of immature vitriol all they want.

Come election time, real Democrats and other people who care about this country will have a choice between two candidates with clear and distinct agendas. I will vote for the Democratic nominee, I'm mature enough to know that a Republican in the WH would be disastrous for the country. If people choose to cut their nose to spite themselves and sit on their hands or vote third party, so be it. I neither have college debt, plan on getting pregnant or lack health insurance. If these issues are so unimportant to the young, then they should suffer the consequences of sitting out an election because their candidate of choice didn't get nominated. In other words they need to grow up.



Metric System

(6,048 posts)
50. I don't want to hear they give a shit about abortion, LGBT rights, police brutality and racism if
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:04 PM
Feb 2016

they choose to sit out the general election.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
70. In life we don't always get what we want.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:18 PM
Feb 2016

I fervently wanted Hillary to be the nominee in 2008, but it was obvious that Obama was the only choice once he clenched the nomination. Was I supposed to vote for McCain?

To state that they will stay home, be it the young or the "purists", is just lacking in political maturity. I refuse to beg anyone to vote for the nominee, but I have zero patience for people who are so selfish that they rather throw the presidency away because their candidate didn't win the nomination.



 

Bohemianwriter

(978 posts)
92. Bernie brought millions of voters to the democratic party...
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:42 PM
Feb 2016

Now, the establishment is doing yourt best to alienate them. And you expect their suport for your the republican lite Hillary after this attitude?

Keep dreaming!

You get much further with sugar than vinegar.

&index=44&list=WL

I think many will go 3rd party. They vote with their principles. They do not base their vote on partisanship, but on who will represent their interests the best. Hillary is clearly not that person.

As a veteran from her husband's little adventure in Yugoslavia, I cannot see any reason why anyone should support a candidate who have not been right once regarding the 4 wars in the Middle East the last 15 years, and think he or she will have it right the 5th time.

I will not endorse someone who are unwilling to go after war criminals. I doubt that Bernie will go after the Bushies, but it would be refreshing if he did. Unfortunately, he would have to after after the Clinton klan as well, since they do not have clean hands in these wars.

I do not endorse someone who's endorsement has a past where she thought that a half a million dead people (during Clinton's bomb campaign) was worth it stating that there is a special place in hell for Bernie supporters.

I do not endorse a candidate who has taken money from corporate donors and try to give the impression that she has YOUR interest at heart.

I do not endorse a candidate who is all about "me, me, I, me, I will I have been attacked, I am such a great bullshiter" kind of candidate.

I do not endorse a candidate who takes a stop in the campaign trail to have a fund raiser with people she wants to regulate next year.

I know it's disingenouos of me. I know what she did it for.

She went there to wag her finger at them! The money she raised was to buy one of those big foam hands that they sell at sporting events (do you know how much one of those costs at the stadium? (highway robbery I'm telling you, highway robbery) Once she has one of these foam hands, then she'll really be able to wag her finger.

I do not endorse a candidate that confuses facts with smear.

So why do you support Hillary, and why do you expect people's support after that littler self righteous moral tirade of yours?

From what I see, I see a middle class person without the struggles of the young, and you want them to vote more of the same that has led to this. You don't have hardships, and want the people you smear to vote for an elitist far removed from reality and in bed with Wall Street.
It's like asking OWS to vote for someone who's in bed with Wall Street. Do you feel comfortable voting for someone who has the same donor as Ted Cruz?

Sorry.

I have yet to see any tangeable argument for any vote for Hillary whatsoever.

?1438898746

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
101. I think that barring any eventuality Hillary will be the nominee.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:57 PM
Feb 2016

If I'm wrong and Sanders becomes the nominee, then I will vote for him in the general election. Would you rather see a Republican in the WH than vote for the party's nominee if it's not your candidate of choice? That's my point. To expect a candidate to stop running because young people prefer someone else, is ludicrous. The voting will trudge along until one or the other one wins enough pledged delegates. The young can choose what to do at that point. What more do you want me to say about it? I don't believe in pie in the sky promises and any agenda that requires a "political revolution" to come to fruition. I think that Sanders means well, but is an ideologue.

 

Bohemianwriter

(978 posts)
106. Put it like this...
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:08 PM
Feb 2016

If people insist on voting against their own interest and pissing on your alleged principles, then neither you or anyone who does similar deserve my respect nor my support.

Sorry. But if the establishment selects Hillary and you are her stooges as minions, I will become a Carlinist full time and hope that my own book about your dirty wars will create enough havoc in itself and pray to St. George that whomever gets to become boss creates disasters that is long due. I think it's about time you people should deal with the consequences of voting for neo-liberals who has been instrumental in creating havoc in the Middle East.

Because that's when I will lose my faith in humanity.

Hillary, like any other republican makes me lose faith in humanity. And you're not helping.

Kind regards

A veteran and writer

If Bernie doesn't win, I'm sort of curious about what kind of dystopian society you will create with corporatist A or corporatist B.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
31. Wrong! It's that uppity Sanders fella.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:31 PM
Feb 2016

He doesn't know his place.
Why doesn't he just step aside and let corporate America take over?
You can trust them. They're experts!

TIME TO PANIC

(1,894 posts)
32. I couldn't agree more.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:41 PM
Feb 2016

Not only has she run an unethical campaign, but she is also far to the right of the democratic base.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,316 posts)
38. "Fracturing the party" is saying that millions of Democrats won't vote for her
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 09:32 PM
Feb 2016

Neither candidate is 'fracturing the party'. It's just supporters who want to say anything to get their name down as a real important partisan.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
40. Oh, isn't that special?
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 09:36 PM
Feb 2016

Sanders' supporters saying that Hillary is fracturing the party. He's the Johnny-come-lately to the party. Hillary has been a registered Democrat since the late 60s. I'm not going to take advice about party unity from a supporter of the guy who just joined the party 5 minutes ago out of political expediency.

Ahhh, this place gets crazier and crazier by the day.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
41. Clinton isn't fracturing the party herself
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 09:37 PM
Feb 2016

But as one of the best faces of the Establishment, she certainly highlights why our party is failing most of its members and why the rift has opened between the out of touch DLC monied members and the rest of us who have to work for a living.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
45. Shocking another evidence free post
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 09:50 PM
Feb 2016

We get it. You don't like Clinton. But it would show more effort and conviction if you could even be bothered to post something that vaguely attempts to support your post. Without that, I suspect it's just what you want to believe.

jalan48

(13,865 posts)
46. Hillary was the corporate choice, the wrong choice.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 09:56 PM
Feb 2016

If Elizabeth Warren had been the nominee just think how united Democrats would be. But then, she wasn't the corporate choice and never will be.

MariaThinks

(2,495 posts)
48. bernie supporters are fracturing the party. I haven't seen this much unnecessary hate and
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:02 PM
Feb 2016

blame for even the way she breathes and her voice since republicans went after Obama.

Metric System

(6,048 posts)
53. They attack everything about her and when called on the smears, they say she deserves it
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:06 PM
Feb 2016

because it's all true. You can't reason with that kind of hatred.

MariaThinks

(2,495 posts)
113. i just heard her statements in Flint. The fact that bernie supporters are picking on her as
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 09:57 AM
Feb 2016

opposed to hating the people who have destroyed the water shows me what they are really after. It may not be for a better country.

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,412 posts)
63. Amen!
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:11 PM
Feb 2016

The hate and vitriol being spewed against Hillary by some Sanders supporters here and elsewhere is OTT/unwarranted IMHO. I can get why some people might have a bone to pick with her or why they might want Sanders to win instead but still..............

 

Dawgs

(14,755 posts)
115. That happens when you vote for an unjust Republican war that killed hundred of thousands.
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 12:12 PM
Feb 2016

Maybe you're okay with that stance. Many of us aren't.

 

mac2766

(658 posts)
51. Ugh...
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:06 PM
Feb 2016

So disappointed in all of the arguing. Be a Democrat.

I actually believe that Bernie Sanders represents my perception of what a true Liberal should be. I don't think that Hillary Clinton is evil, or should be discounted. On the contrary. She's served the public for most of her adult life. She deserves my/our respect.

I will be voting for Bernie Sanders in the primaries. If he wins, I believe he will win the general election, and I believe that he will be a great president.

If Hillary wins the nomination, I will gladly support my parties candidate and I will vote for her. I don't believe her interests are in line with the majority of Americans, but she would, in that scenario be my candidate, so I would gladly vote for her in the General election.

The bickering is getting old.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
52. But.... she's been helping raise money
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:06 PM
Feb 2016

A lot of help that will be when people refuse to vote at all if she's nominated. For so many people, her candidacy will make them feel like nothing will change. The disaffected Obama voters want nothing to do with a candidate who was in his administration, and has ties to wall street accompanied by the "dead broke" assertion.
She does not understand how much people are hurting. In my area, we have 3% unemployment and 19% poverty. She has not given any indication that those voices matter to her.
I think it is foolish to not vote for the Democrat or to not vote at all, but I am not feeling the economic strains a lot of other people feel.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
56. Wait for it. If she loses in the general the Left will get the blame for her failure
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:08 PM
Feb 2016

to attract voters.

i.e. "The left swiftboated her"

and/or

"The left sat the election out".


Laughable as that is you can count on hearing it.

wouldsman

(94 posts)
58. And driving younger voters away. Permanently.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:09 PM
Feb 2016

Sanders gives us the chance to bring in lots of new energy. Build the party of the future.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
71. I've been saying that for the longest time.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:21 PM
Feb 2016

DU, mirror image of Free Republic. Same extremes, same purity tests, different party.



 

Bohemianwriter

(978 posts)
102. When has she ever said....
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:57 PM
Feb 2016

"We must do this together"!?

The only thing we hear from MSM is how they discard Bernie Sanders as a socialist (and leave out Democratic).

Whenever I hear "liberal media", I hear RW talk.

When I saw how different Cuomo treated Bernie and Hillary, and not a cricket from Hillary supporters, only whining, it makes me wonder.

And now we get the ad hominems as well and must bow down to the will of over sensitive Hillary supporters who thinks that pointing out the systemic corruption and ties with Wall Street is a smear campaign against Hillary.

My sympathies to civilian Hillary and her supporters whom unlike Bernie supporters have had such a hard life and feel that their personal integrity being attacked.

Sort of makes bullets from wars given to you by Clinton and Bush since 1990 flying around seem like a walk in the park, doesn't it?

I'm sorry. But to feel sympathy with people who seem to live in your bubble of privilege and entitlement and smear the only honest candidate and his supporters is very, very hard.



So tell us, do you think that Bernie Sanders have been given a fair treatment by MSM and CNN in comparison to Hillary?

And why do you feel entitled to attack Bernie supporters? Is it because there is nothing you can attack Bernie himself on?

Response to cali (Original post)

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
88. Exactly!!!
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:40 PM
Feb 2016

This place is like a parallel world. Hillary is the Democrat who has been a member of the party for decades. A man who ran against Democrats, who relished being an Independent, who refused for years to join the party is not considered to be the person fracturing the Democratic party. It's Hillary. On this board, top is bottom and left is right.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
81. That's a joke. The Bernie people are constantly saying that he's bringing in
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:34 PM
Feb 2016

Independents.

So the only people who may be alienated by not all Dems worshipping at his feet were never really Dems.

Solid party members will vote for the nominee and will not be fractured off, no matter who wins.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
83. Let's not do this.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:36 PM
Feb 2016

It was dumb when someone posted that about Sanders, yes, but let's not reply in kind. It amounts to, "I know you are, but what am I?"

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
96. hilarious
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 10:46 PM
Feb 2016

...considering the campaign here among supporters to force a wedge between Democrats.

Too funny.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
104. Actually, the Sanders Revolution is fracturing the party...
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:07 PM
Feb 2016

which is normal for revolutions, by rejecting a big tent that includes a wide range of political beliefs for a smaller, ideologically pure lean-to.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
108. THe CLintons Freactured the Party in the 80's
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:25 PM
Feb 2016

when they sold it to the Koch bros and the others in the oligarchy

glinda

(14,807 posts)
111. I am saddened by the fact that people dislike her so much they will not even vote if she gets
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 01:34 AM
Feb 2016

the nomination. To me the state of the Planet and its wildlife and non-human life forms are passing away before my very eyes and Republicans will just put the final nail in the coffin faster. I do not believe HRC shares my concerns on this either but overall she is not as extreme as them. I get it when people say they will not vote and let it all be damned but it makes me so sad......because I know it is a lot of people saying this.
I hope for the sake of the Party, the Planet and my heart that she will care enough to step aside. I can hope but.....

 

ViseGrip

(3,133 posts)
116. I have felt this way for a while. This is not just the 'party's' fault. They're in on it together.
Mon Feb 8, 2016, 05:08 PM
Feb 2016

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
119. Oh, come on.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 02:12 PM
Feb 2016

We're grown-up enough not to panic as the sight of multiple candidates. This is what it's like in the years we're not just trying to reelection a president.

Clinton IS the party, and so is Sanders.

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